j0n
05-01-2005, 04:46 PM
quoted from SEMB (http://www.sembmusclecarclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=776&highlight=)
Official word published on new Camaro/GTO
Simple, it's dead, the whole f-in program was killed mid-stride thanx to all the DUMBASS SUV buyers out there and I can finally come out and say it. I am about to turn on GM and bite the hand that feeds me. They decided that OF COURSE stupid ass people with gas guzzling road pigs WHO DON'T NEED THEM are more important because they sell more of these vehicles then anything else. So, by percentage and in burned into literal history, our country is offcially stupid by majority. Someone throw us a life-preserver please!
On an optimistic side note, at least GM has no permanent "shelfing" anymore so once or IF things get better the program can be takin "off shelf" and put back on course but don't hold your breath.
So...umm...tell us how you really feel!
I 'get' where you're coming from; the test of a real truck is the ability to hose out the interior with a power washer. They still make 'em thataway, but you have to head out to farm country to get one.
As for the f-bod program - it was killed on account of they sold diddly squat in the last few years - not enough to justify dedicating a plant (St Therese in Montreal) to produce them. Given GM's need to idle an additional 4-5 plants (my calculations, not theirs) the likelihood of the decision to gear up for a Camaro is 180 degrees out from the current thinking.
Meanwhile, the '05 Mustang is the best selling car in the land, and The Rick sez GM's gonna sell their way outta their problems by concentrating on trucks and SUV's.
Let's recap:
1) GM has had declining market share for decades
2) Increasing product quality did not help the slide
3) Introducing new products (remember the lat 90's campaign?) did not halt the slide
4) Reduced interest rates did not halt the slide
5) Rebates did not halt the slide
6) Concentrating on trucks and SUV's did not halt the slide
One definition of insanity is to perform the same act while expecting a different outcome. Ain't nothin' changed at the RenCen; they're approaching a difficult problem with the EXACT same solution they have used in the past.
NetNet: Hang onto your 2002 F-bods as they will become like Duesenberg SJ's - a pinnacle product of a failed car company.
Mostly correct, in fact almost 100% although the end of the F-body was for different and even worse reasons and these are the facts as I have lived through it on the inside of a GM family. The decline of sales (over 100,000 Camaros alone in 93 I think) was due to the ever so amazin marketing skills of GM during this time period especially since they were stupid enough to worry more about the "asian invasion/rice boy" fad that is finally leveling off at least.
What I mean is, they thought it was more important to follow the trend/FAD and now we have a Cobalt instead and so on (not that this isn't an impressive little FWD car other then the shifter feeling like it is connected to JELLO, now enters the Hurst...). Also important is that they didn't want to spend the money to make the f-car meet new safety standards although this is a piss poor excuse when it is no different then any other developement cost (can we all say SSR, Aztec and a few other **** bombs?). I should TYR to get a few of em to start reading forums like this where people actually care and are completely honest and actually BUY THEM instead of writing good things about so and so's car beacuse they greased their palms like a 5 dollar whore would.
There, that honest enough? :smt077 OK then more...
I love GM and I can be intensely loyal but I don't love the people that are in charge at the top and especially not the worthless bean counters they love so much. They don't deserve the rediculous multi million dollar salaries, that is for DAMN sure when people who bust their ass for GM don't take home squat in profit sharing. OK, I am done venting for now. Counting to 20 now "huff huff" grrrrrr :piss
link? proof?
unless you have some solid info, i plain disagree. GM knows how well the new mustang is doing and have vowed not to cancel upcoming cars since the whole bankruptcy thing. I think were gonna know for sure at this years auto show :smt045
Umm...
There have been canceled progams - the zeta platform is one of them.
The GMT 900 is on pull-ahead; they're launching it 6 months ahead of schedule, which will most likely result in more defects than usual - defects which will be examined under the microscope of mass media.
As of a month ago, there was a 330 day supply of SSR's. Dealers are being forced to take them.
As for the comments from Rick Wagoner, they are direct quotes from the local newspapers. Do a freep search or a det news search; you'll find them in no time.
I make my living trying to figure out where the auto industry is going next, and it scares the crap outta me when the acknowledged industry experts agree the situation is difficult and complex, and they generally 'hope' it won't end in banckruptcy. According to Friday's Free Press, GM's cash cushion will last two years - that's less than half of my 1st quarter estimate of five. When - not if - the next wave of intros is met with average sales, GM will be forced into rapid redesign of product - thus killing the cash reserve.
It's as simple as this:
a) Legacy costs (healthcare and pensions) are upside-down by a factor of 2.5:1. That's two and a half retirees for every GM employee - not enough set-aside to fund pensions and healthcare costs.
b) NOTHING GM has done has halted the erosion of market share - didja know they had 55% of the market at one point? They have abdicated literally half of their US market share.
c) Their core NA product are trucks and SUV's - SUV sales are off 10%, and Nissan, Toyota, and Honda are hitting the full-size truck market hard.
d) The current UAW/GM labor agreement will not allow GM to shutter ANY plants until 2007 - two years off.
NetNet: they can do nothing other than pull product ahead and 'hope' for the best.
GM is upside-down big time and has painted themselves into a very dark corner. Of the three US-based auto companies (if you accept occupied chrysler as US-based) GM has the largest infrastructure and legacy cost base; saying they will sell their way out of their problems is like a 4th quarter hail mary pass from 60 yards out - sure it happens sometimes, but the odds are highly stacked against it. They would have to take a 30% share (5% of the total market) of the import market back to be healthy - and I can't see that happening - period.
I'm a third generation car guy - my grandfather worked at Hudson Motor Car Co. and Pop worked at what would have been called a Tier One supplier at the time. Seeing them go down is NOT on my list of things-to-do; but this is exactly what I told pop the other day:
'looks like you may live to see the end of the US auto industry.'
looking for input from the brainiacs here :?
Official word published on new Camaro/GTO
Simple, it's dead, the whole f-in program was killed mid-stride thanx to all the DUMBASS SUV buyers out there and I can finally come out and say it. I am about to turn on GM and bite the hand that feeds me. They decided that OF COURSE stupid ass people with gas guzzling road pigs WHO DON'T NEED THEM are more important because they sell more of these vehicles then anything else. So, by percentage and in burned into literal history, our country is offcially stupid by majority. Someone throw us a life-preserver please!
On an optimistic side note, at least GM has no permanent "shelfing" anymore so once or IF things get better the program can be takin "off shelf" and put back on course but don't hold your breath.
So...umm...tell us how you really feel!
I 'get' where you're coming from; the test of a real truck is the ability to hose out the interior with a power washer. They still make 'em thataway, but you have to head out to farm country to get one.
As for the f-bod program - it was killed on account of they sold diddly squat in the last few years - not enough to justify dedicating a plant (St Therese in Montreal) to produce them. Given GM's need to idle an additional 4-5 plants (my calculations, not theirs) the likelihood of the decision to gear up for a Camaro is 180 degrees out from the current thinking.
Meanwhile, the '05 Mustang is the best selling car in the land, and The Rick sez GM's gonna sell their way outta their problems by concentrating on trucks and SUV's.
Let's recap:
1) GM has had declining market share for decades
2) Increasing product quality did not help the slide
3) Introducing new products (remember the lat 90's campaign?) did not halt the slide
4) Reduced interest rates did not halt the slide
5) Rebates did not halt the slide
6) Concentrating on trucks and SUV's did not halt the slide
One definition of insanity is to perform the same act while expecting a different outcome. Ain't nothin' changed at the RenCen; they're approaching a difficult problem with the EXACT same solution they have used in the past.
NetNet: Hang onto your 2002 F-bods as they will become like Duesenberg SJ's - a pinnacle product of a failed car company.
Mostly correct, in fact almost 100% although the end of the F-body was for different and even worse reasons and these are the facts as I have lived through it on the inside of a GM family. The decline of sales (over 100,000 Camaros alone in 93 I think) was due to the ever so amazin marketing skills of GM during this time period especially since they were stupid enough to worry more about the "asian invasion/rice boy" fad that is finally leveling off at least.
What I mean is, they thought it was more important to follow the trend/FAD and now we have a Cobalt instead and so on (not that this isn't an impressive little FWD car other then the shifter feeling like it is connected to JELLO, now enters the Hurst...). Also important is that they didn't want to spend the money to make the f-car meet new safety standards although this is a piss poor excuse when it is no different then any other developement cost (can we all say SSR, Aztec and a few other **** bombs?). I should TYR to get a few of em to start reading forums like this where people actually care and are completely honest and actually BUY THEM instead of writing good things about so and so's car beacuse they greased their palms like a 5 dollar whore would.
There, that honest enough? :smt077 OK then more...
I love GM and I can be intensely loyal but I don't love the people that are in charge at the top and especially not the worthless bean counters they love so much. They don't deserve the rediculous multi million dollar salaries, that is for DAMN sure when people who bust their ass for GM don't take home squat in profit sharing. OK, I am done venting for now. Counting to 20 now "huff huff" grrrrrr :piss
link? proof?
unless you have some solid info, i plain disagree. GM knows how well the new mustang is doing and have vowed not to cancel upcoming cars since the whole bankruptcy thing. I think were gonna know for sure at this years auto show :smt045
Umm...
There have been canceled progams - the zeta platform is one of them.
The GMT 900 is on pull-ahead; they're launching it 6 months ahead of schedule, which will most likely result in more defects than usual - defects which will be examined under the microscope of mass media.
As of a month ago, there was a 330 day supply of SSR's. Dealers are being forced to take them.
As for the comments from Rick Wagoner, they are direct quotes from the local newspapers. Do a freep search or a det news search; you'll find them in no time.
I make my living trying to figure out where the auto industry is going next, and it scares the crap outta me when the acknowledged industry experts agree the situation is difficult and complex, and they generally 'hope' it won't end in banckruptcy. According to Friday's Free Press, GM's cash cushion will last two years - that's less than half of my 1st quarter estimate of five. When - not if - the next wave of intros is met with average sales, GM will be forced into rapid redesign of product - thus killing the cash reserve.
It's as simple as this:
a) Legacy costs (healthcare and pensions) are upside-down by a factor of 2.5:1. That's two and a half retirees for every GM employee - not enough set-aside to fund pensions and healthcare costs.
b) NOTHING GM has done has halted the erosion of market share - didja know they had 55% of the market at one point? They have abdicated literally half of their US market share.
c) Their core NA product are trucks and SUV's - SUV sales are off 10%, and Nissan, Toyota, and Honda are hitting the full-size truck market hard.
d) The current UAW/GM labor agreement will not allow GM to shutter ANY plants until 2007 - two years off.
NetNet: they can do nothing other than pull product ahead and 'hope' for the best.
GM is upside-down big time and has painted themselves into a very dark corner. Of the three US-based auto companies (if you accept occupied chrysler as US-based) GM has the largest infrastructure and legacy cost base; saying they will sell their way out of their problems is like a 4th quarter hail mary pass from 60 yards out - sure it happens sometimes, but the odds are highly stacked against it. They would have to take a 30% share (5% of the total market) of the import market back to be healthy - and I can't see that happening - period.
I'm a third generation car guy - my grandfather worked at Hudson Motor Car Co. and Pop worked at what would have been called a Tier One supplier at the time. Seeing them go down is NOT on my list of things-to-do; but this is exactly what I told pop the other day:
'looks like you may live to see the end of the US auto industry.'
looking for input from the brainiacs here :?