Only in Kansas[news]

[Koll]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=585&e=2&u=/nm/20050505/sc_nm/life_evolution_dc

Darwin is on trial.

[Untamed]

This debate will go on and on. Nothing new.

[skorpion317]

religion....flying in the face of scientific discovery for years. Everything we've seen so far tells us that evolution happens. Nothing shows us that God created the world and everything on it in 7 days. this is ridiculous.

I'm a practicing Catholic, but Christian fundamentalists piss me off. There's absolutely no common sense when it comes to them.

[Savage_Messiah]

)religion....flying in the face of scientific discovery for years. Everything we've seen so far tells us that evolution happens. Nothing shows us that God created the world and everything on it in 7 days. this is ridiculous.

I'm a practicing Catholic, but Christian fundamentalists piss me off. There's absolutely no common sense when it comes to them.

Agreed fully... its all I can do to not start preaching (:lol:) about this topic

[skorpion317]

i had an argument with a Christian fundamentalist one time. I used to work with him at FYE. he basically ended up telling me that God created the store we worked in. I told him that was the dumbest thing i've ever heard, and that he hadn't come too far from the chimps we're descended from.

[jims69camaro]

i don't understand why they can't be taught both. it's like one or the other, there is no middle ground or compromise in these people. and yet, in some schools, it's still taught that we won the viet nam war :oops: :soapbox:

[Savage_Messiah]

Teaching creationalism is teaching religion, and not all religions at that, alienating student who may be atheist, taoist, whatever

[deadtrend1]

and yet, in some schools, it's still taught that we won the viet nam war :oops: :soapbox:

I never really read up on that war to find out who won and lost.

I work with some die hard Christians and its annoying sometimes. They don't preach to me that God this and God causes that, which is alright. They all have their little Christian clique at lunch where they discuss whats new with church this week, its just sad at times I think...

For people to not belive in evolution when each person has a appendix and wisdom teeth. Both unneccessary in human life now but bla bla bla.... you get the point

Now don't get me wrong I'm a cathloc, but my main beliefs are in a afterlife for a higher being. Thats is all, punchin out ... :lol:

[ShitOnWheels]

i don't understand why they can't be taught both. Â*it's like one or the other, there is no middle ground or compromise in these people. Â*and yet, in some schools, it's still taught that we won the viet nam war :oops: Â*:soapbox:
Thing is, teaching creationism really isn't "science" whereas evolution is. Â*So unless you find another subject it would fit in, it doesn't make sense to teach both. Â*

But, if you start teaching creationism, even as another subject and in conjunction with evolution (and I'm assuming they would state periodically in some way that the kids can believe what they want, it's just being taught to give them both sides), you'll offend the other half of the population. Â*So it really doesn't matter what they do, someone will alawyas be offended.

My solution? If you want your kid to learn creationism, teach it yourself or send them to Catholic school (this is me assuming that they teach that there lol).

[jims69camaro]

i was taught both, and i don't remember anyone being offended about me learning both. even those who subscribe to another religion wouldn't be hurt to learn something about christianity - i'm not saying forcing someone into a lifelong servitude, only studying christianity - but a brush with another religion won't kill anyone (*and could, even, strengthen their beliefs!). i've read the koran, studied theology in catholic school and gone to lutheran, baptist and catholic churches. it's better, in my own humblest of opinions, to have a well-rounded education.

it's just gotten to the point where people are curbing their enthusiasm when it comes to christmas, one of my favorite holidays. to hear that the normal school musical in grade school won't be happening this year to avoid offending those that don't believe in christ or that he even existed (or those that are ashamed that their ancestors killed him) chaffs me in a sensitive area. can't we all just get along? or, in lieu of that, can't we all just admit that we'll never get along and just get on with life?

next thing you know, we won't be observing halloween (another of my favorite holidays) because we'll be offending the druids or the wiccans...

[Slow Z]

I hate christians. Articles like that make me abnormally angry.


...Just thought I'd share that.

[jims69camaro]

someone on bill maher's show last week commented on there being two christianities... the normal, easy-going variety and the fire and brimstone, you better follow or you'll spend an eternity in hell variety...

[slasherbarb]

so, what ur saying, is that we are all descendants of adam and eve...so we are all cousins...thats gross

[BigAls87Z28]

I agree with the above comment. If you want your kids to belive in Catholic ideas, and live that way, then send them to a Catholic school. Your kids will eventualy be old enough to pick which one they want to belive in. I remember hearing both sides of the story, and I picked which side I belive in.

As for the Vietnam war...I actualy dont remember them sayin "we lost", but it just kinda died off, or they clump the last 50 years into two days of learning, so they really dont go over it. I know we lost, but I dont remember them telling us in school.
I remember talking about the Civil War with people from the south. They never called it the Civil War, but the War of Northern Aggression. 140 years, and they are still uneasy about it.

[CrAsH]

i beleve in both in a way i dont really beleve we were ment to b but i do beleve in an afterlife and sumthing thatcreated the original big bang as they call it but im against shoving ur beliefs down other people throughts so that article jus really pisses me off :evil:

[skorpion317]

We lost in Vietnam, although on paper we won....we killed a lot more of them than they did of us.

Southerners are wrong when they call the Civil War the War of Northern Aggression. It was the South who launched the first attack on a fort on the coast of South Carolina. They were the aggressors, not the North. The North simply fought to keep the Union together. Abolition of slavery wasn't even an issue during the war until 1865, when Abraham Lincoln decided it would be a good way to get back at the South.

every history class I ever had until senior year of high school ended at the Civil War.

[Savage_Messiah]

We lost in Vietnam, although on paper we won....we killed a lot more of them than they did of us.

Southerners are wrong when they call the Civil War the War of Northern Aggression. It was the South who launched the first attack on a fort on the coast of South Carolina. They were the aggressors, not the North. The North simply fought to keep the Union together. Abolition of slavery wasn't even an issue during the war until 1865, when Abraham Lincoln decided it would be a good way to get back at the South.

every history class I ever had until senior year of high school ended at the Civil War.

True facts except the "war of northern aggression" IS debatable. I say this because if the North had allowed the Southern states to seceed from the Union there would hav been no "civil" war, althugh war could have broken out still between the Union and Confederacy. I totally just went full circle.

[skorpion317]

the south was illegally seceding from the Union. they were defying the laws of the nation. and they fired the first shots of the war. They got everything they had coming.

[Savage_Messiah]

Not quite

They subscribed to the "compact theory" first elucidated in the Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions of 1798. According to this theory, the individual states delegated their authority to the Federal government when they ratified the Constitution and can withdraw it through another convention. In general, the secession ordinances passsed at these conventions rescinded ratification of the constitution.

http://valley.vcdh.virginia.edu/outlines/secession.html

[jims69camaro]

oh, and just so we get this straight, i don't believe we were created by a supreme power nor that we're descended from some form of monkey. there is a missing link, to be sure, science has proven that. how to best explain that link is where both religion and science fail.

if there was enough time and space here, we could get into a discussion about what really happened. it would blow your mind.

[ShitOnWheels]

i was taught both, and i don't remember anyone being offended about me learning both. Â*even those who subscribe to another religion wouldn't be hurt to learn something about christianity - i'm not saying forcing someone into a lifelong servitude, only studying christianity - but a brush with another religion won't kill anyone (*and could, even, strengthen their beliefs!). Â*i've read the koran, studied theology in catholic school and gone to lutheran, baptist and catholic churches. Â*it's better, in my own humblest of opinions, to have a well-rounded education.

it's just gotten to the point where people are curbing their enthusiasm when it comes to christmas, one of my favorite holidays. Â*to hear that the normal school musical in grade school won't be happening this year to avoid offending those that don't believe in christ or that he even existed (or those that are ashamed that their ancestors killed him) chaffs me in a sensitive area. Â*can't we all just get along? Â*or, in lieu of that, can't we all just admit that we'll never get along and just get on with life?

next thing you know, we won't be observing halloween (another of my favorite holidays) because we'll be offending the druids or the wiccans...
I agree, learning it all is ideal. However, when are you talking about learning this stuff? Elementary school, I think, is a little too young to explain all the possibilities...they'll be confused. I think late middle school/early high school would be the best time to do this, if it's done ni the school. however, you can't teach about religion as a "science" class, so you have to make a new discipline for it, and this is where I think people get up in arms about it, since you start incorporating religion and prayer into the schools.

Honestly, I would have had no desire to be taught about religion in school (K-12). That's not to say I don't want to learn about them...I'll do it on my own, or in college, when I can get a full grasp on everything. I guess I think kids are too impressionable, and if the teacher has a bias towards one religion, they'll bias their teachings to that religion. In late college years and beyond, the professors may still be biased, but the students should be able to pick up on it more and decide how to handlethe bias. :shrug:

[Fasterthanyou]

I work with some die hard Christians and its annoying sometimes. They don't preach to me that God this and God causes that, which is alright. They all have their little Christian clique at lunch where they discuss what’s new with church this week, its just sad at times I think...
I'm a tad confused about your reply. Do you feel bad for them that they talk about what's new with church, etc? Kind of like how they might feel the same way about you talking about material items like cars? :? Out of the box kind of thinking :wink: .

I don't necessarily agree with what they're doing but I also respect that they are doing it. Do any of you live in Kansas right now? Didn't think so, so why not let them have their debate (yes that is all that it is) and educate yourself to THEIR point of view. An ignorant man is one that thinks he is always right... and the liberal’s are on the loosing side making them less evolved (according to some of you). Just playing devils advocate here since nobody is defending their right to have a debate. BTW, Science doesn't prove that God doesn't exist unless you take literal meaning to a very complicated translation of the Bible... remember, English wasn't the language of the people righting the bible so we're subjected to their translating abilities. Also, the Bible would be rather long to read about evolution so it's easier to say the world was built in 6 days and on the 7th day he chilled with the Mrs. Almighty. Think about it, why does "1 day" have to mean 24 hours? A lot of the Bible, like other books, weren't to be taken literally. Eye for an eye is a perfect example. Now for people that lack the whole deeper meaning thing, well it saddens me that you aren't more tolerant.
I hate christians. Articles like that make me abnormally angry.


...Just thought I'd share that.
I'm sorry you feel that way.

[CrAsH]

oh, and just so we get this straight, i don't believe we were created by a supreme power nor that we're descended from some form of monkey. Â*there is a missing link, to be sure, science has proven that. Â*how to best explain that link is where both religion and science fail.

if there was enough time and space here, we could get into a discussion about what really happened. Â*it would blow your mind.true

[jims69camaro]

Do any of you live in Kansas right now? Didn't think so, so why not let them have their debate (yes that is all that it is) and educate yourself to THEIR point of view. An ignorant man is one that thinks he is always right...

hmmm. did someone say they didn't have a right to debate this subject? i think we're all just inviting ourselves in on it, letting our own opinions be known in our little corner of the world. i learned a little bit just by what we have discussed here.

why would you have to live in kansas to be able to appreciate both sides of this?

[superblonde]

This is merely my educated opinion (whether you agree with me or not)...
As a future teacher all I have to say is that religion has no place in my classroom. I refuse to exclude the beliefs of other multiple religions that have existed as long or longer than Christianity by promoting the beliefs of a sole religion. This country has separation of church and state for a reason and these religious ninnys seem to forget that at their own convenience. For all those who want their children to learn that "God created the world" they should put their child in private school which centers their learning philosophy around such beliefs because I sure as hell won't teach it. :soapbox:

[jims69camaro]

stop holding back - tell us how you really feel...

[ShitOnWheels]

stop holding back - tell us how you really feel...
Don't tempt her.

[superblonde]

stop holding back - tell us how you really feel...

:lol: Nah, I think I'll maintain some level of self control...at least this time.

[Fasterthanyou]

Just so people understand this (seems some don't) they aren't imposing religious beliefs into the curriculum. The only thing they are debating is the way evolution is being taught. They are listening to the side of scientists that don't believe Darwinism should be taught outright as fact when in reality it is (and seemingly forever will be) a theory. Hence the Darwin THEORY of evolution. Some people are upset that the scientists teaching the children are presenting Darwin’s theory as fact not a theory but proved beyond a shadow of a doubt... but it isn't, it's still a theory. That is what is being debated, not that Darwin's theory shouldn't be taught but that the other theories should be!
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=2553&program=CSC-News&callingPage=discoMainPage
That is one of the sources worth reading even if you don't believe them. I just like doing my homework before jumping to conclusions...

[enRo]

This is merely my educated opinion (whether you agree with me or not)...
As a future teacher all I have to say is that religion has no place in my classroom. I refuse to exclude the beliefs of other multiple religions that have existed as long or longer than Christianity by promoting the beliefs of a sole religion. This country has separation of church and state for a reason and these religious ninnys seem to forget that at their own convenience. For all those who want their children to learn that "God created the world" they should put their child in private school which centers their learning philosophy around such beliefs because I sure as hell won't teach it. :soapbox:

Ahhhhhhhhmen.

Both are BELIEFS and THEORIES. One could POSSIBLY be true, while the other isn't and vise versa. IMO, the Origin of Human Life sustained through Evolution or Religious reasons should not be taught at all throughout public schools. I believe in Evolution as well as God created EARTH. Clashing theories and beliefs will just confuse the young and the learning.

[superblonde]

Just so people understand this (seems some don't) they aren't imposing religious beliefs into the curriculum. The only thing they are debating is the way evolution is being taught. They are listening to the side of scientists that don't believe Darwinism should be taught outright as fact when in reality it is (and seemingly forever will be) a theory. Hence the Darwin THEORY of evolution. Some people are upset that the scientists teaching the children are presenting Darwin’s theory as fact not a theory but proved beyond a shadow of a doubt... but it isn't, it's still a theory. That is what is being debated, not that Darwin's theory shouldn't be taught but that the other theories should be!
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=2553&program=CSC-News&callingPage=discoMainPage
That is one of the sources worth reading even if you don't believe them. I just like doing my homework before jumping to conclusions...

I feel this needs to be said. I hope that you don't mistake my opinion for misunderstanding. I'm well aware of what they are arguing.