if you had 5 grand to build an engine..

[84HOtransam]

what would you do..now this is motor only...assume you have a trans and rear to support anything...non daily driven...and enough power to get my 3400lb car into the 11's consistantly..

[Little G]

I'd make a 300+ hp beast out of my spare 3800.

[Fasterthanyou]

Geeze, I'd probably get a cheap 350 with some aluminum heads like Trick Flow's or AFR, Stealth Ram, and a big single turbo. The only expensive parts in the engine would be the rods. Cast crank and pistons... just gotta stay away from detonation.

[Batman]

I agree with Jon, if I was building it I would just get a 4 bolt 350 with a good heads/cam/intake package and 11's would be no problem. May even have some change in your pocket afterward. Either that or I would just get a ZZ4 or fast burn 385. Fast burn 385 is about $4200, swap in a nastier cam and you'll be tipping over 500HP.

[foff667]

I'd probably build my ls1 & throw on a 200+ shot. With a built bottom end even just 346ci of it it should be able to put down close to 600 rwhp/tq through an automatic.

[Slow Z]

I'd build something like...

- 400 with decent internals. 11.5:1'ish compression
- Canfield 220cc heads (with porting if budget allows)
- Comp's XE solid roller 254/260 @ 050, .582/.588, 110LSA
- Victor Jr intake, 750 Mighty Demon carb, MSD pro-billet
- Hooker LT's with duals or single 4"

Put this in a car behind an 8" converter (4500'ish stall) some 4.10's it should run in the 10.80-11.20 range in your average semi-stripped down street/strip turdgen... You could also put in some (numerically) lower gears and a tighter converter and spray it. It'd run slower on motor but on a shot if its not in the low 10's you did something wrong. It'd also most likely run just fine on pump gas. You could retard the timing a few degrees and run on straight pump gas when just cruising around then you could spike the tank with race gas and up the timing when its race time.

[NJSPEEDER]

i would prolly go with a signle turbo TPI motor(stock computer and harness). use a converted single plain carb intake instead of hat front loader junk. build teh short block around 8.5:1 with good parts. a comp cams turbo cam, something that builds power to 6k or 6.5k would be nice. thorw in 8-10 psi.
any good set of aluminum heads with a 200ish port would work. afr's or trick flows would be nice, the jeg's 197 heads would work too and save you a few bucks.


later
tim

[enRo]

Id just buy a GN engine off ebay. :lol:

[Slow Z]

Id just buy a GN engine off ebay. :lol:

and still have to fabricate custom headers and all the turbo plumbing? Cost the same and get more power out of a SB/BB with a turbo... Unless of course you managed to find a wrecked TTA

[NJSPEEDER]

Id just buy a GN engine off ebay. :lol:

and still have to fabricate custom headers and all the turbo plumbing? Cost the same and get more power out of a SB/BB with a turbo... Unless of course you managed to find a wrecked TTA

with all teh extra space from being two cyls shorter it would be easy to make that stuff. end result would be a much better power to weight ratio and the weight would be further back too.

interesting idea. are gn upgrade parts expensive?

later
tim

[enRo]

Unless of course you managed to find a wrecked TTA

Not technically... I saw a fox body (forgot where) that has a GN engine dropped in it for sale. So fabricating a good fit shouldnt be TOO hard. (LC2 correct?)

[84HOtransam]

Unless of course you managed to find a wrecked TTA

Not technically... I saw a fox body (forgot where) that has a GN engine dropped in it for sale. So fabricating a good fit shouldnt be TOO hard. (LC2 correct?)

might have been a guy i know around here...the car ran 10.90's..then he pulled the motor for a 388 ford small block based setup with a single turbo that hashim in the high 8's..

[Batman]

I know for a fact the GN motor won't fit in an F-body because of the heads. Pontiac made special short heads for the TTA to fit the motor in the F-body, so if you want a GN motor you are going to need the pontiac heads or be prepeared to smash in your wheel housings a little bit. It is NOT an easy swap to do, and it definately won't come in under $5,000.

This is right from the TTA source page

" Some difference exist between the TTA motor and the GN version. Different heads were necessary in order to squeeze the motor between the strut towers. These heads, adapted from the transverse FWD version of the 3.8 liter motor, have the added benefit of improved exhaust flow and combustion chamber design"

[ar0ck]

Personally I would go with a nice GM Crate motor, because I dont think Im capable of putting the motor together. GM has a nice line of crate motors, just buy one and drop it in and you should have nothing else to worry about. And with whatever extra money you have left feed alittle bit of nitrous, and get some good rubber & wheel.

[Batman]

Personally I would go with a nice GM Crate motor
That's the way I would still go.

[Pampered-Z]

I think I'd go to a salvage yard and get an LS1/LS2 motor, get some head porting done, big cam, headers.

[NJSPEEDER]

a stock LS1 with a single turbo is worth about 400hp easy and weighs 150lbs less than a standard small block :)

later
tim

[Batman]

a stock LS1 with a single turbo is worth about 400hp easy and weighs 150lbs less than a standard small block :)

later
tim

A stock LS1 with a cam is worth 400, a turbo can get you upwards of 475 at 8PSI. Only downside is modifying the third gen to accept it.

[NJSPEEDER]

a stock LS1 with a single turbo is worth about 400hp easy and weighs 150lbs less than a standard small block :)

later
tim

A stock LS1 with a cam is worth 400, a turbo can get you upwards of 475 at 8PSI. Only downside is modifying the third gen to accept it.

i looked into it when i had my 83. it is really an easy swap for teh most part. they make swap mounts, swap headers, wiring harness adaptors. easiest thing to do is buy swap mounts and use aftermarket gauges.
it is just time sonsuming because of the rewiring, damn gm and their electrical tape!!! lol

later
tim

[84HOtransam]

i was also looking into an ls1 with heads and a cam...carb manifold...run just an alternator..elec. water pump...the only thing that held me back was the transmission situation..my car is manual and i want to keep it that way...that would mean getting a t56 in there with the new style hydrualics and pedals...and still not hold the torque a tko 600 can..

[NJSPEEDER]

why would you take the fuel injection off of the ls1?

later
tim

[Slow Z]

Dont know about everyone else but I'm all for keeping it simple and spending the least amount of money possible. Why build an LS1 only to slap a carb on it? If I wanna go 11's I'm not building an LS1 with a turbo or anything fancy like that. I'm building a standard SBC either N/A like I described above, or much milder with some nitrous. My motor cost no where near $5000 and, although unoffical, I think its safe to say it'll go low 11's on spray. My motor is just a weeny 10:1 350 with unported Vortecs and XE274 cam and it rolls pretty damn good. My car I could drive every day if I wanted to and it gets suprisingly good gas milage with the TH350 and 9.5" converter. Behind a T56 it'd be pretty fun.

[Batman]

You ever see how much power a carb'd LS1 makes? It is as good or better power wise then the EFI, just nowhere near the gas mileage. It also eliminates the need for a computer, which cuts the install cost down by about $500-$700

[Tru2Chevy]

You ever see how much power a carb'd LS1 makes? It is as good or better power wise then the EFI, just nowhere near the gas mileage. It also eliminates the need for a computer, which cuts the install cost down by about $500-$700

Exactly - same power with less milage and usually less driveability. Why not keep the EFI (since most used LS1s come with the harness and PCM already) and just spend some time cutting up the wiring harness yourself?

If I ever decided to buy an LS1, I sure as hell wouldn't slap a carb on it.

- Justin

[Slow Z]

For less cash you could build a regular SBC that is stronger and makes more power. Putting a carbed LS1 into a turdgen is like taking 1 step forward and 2 steps backward. Does anyone even make headers for such a swap? a SBC is like the most common engine in the world theres a ton of aftermarket parts floating around that can be found much cheaper than LS1 parts.

[84HOtransam]

You ever see how much power a carb'd LS1 makes? It is as good or better power wise then the EFI, just nowhere near the gas mileage. It also eliminates the need for a computer, which cuts the install cost down by about $500-$700

Exactly - same power with less milage and usually less driveability. Why not keep the EFI (since most used LS1s come with the harness and PCM already) and just spend some time cutting up the wiring harness yourself?

If I ever decided to buy an LS1, I sure as hell wouldn't slap a carb on it.

- Justin

the carb manifold makes about 100 more hp then the ls6 manifod and fuel injection... using that manifold would also take care of the ignition and i wouldnt need to deal with a wire harness and computer...

driveablity isnt a factor at all...my car is insured for limited mileage...

i am just going to stick to a gen 1 small block so i can keep my transmission...

[Batman]

You could keep your tranny with the LS1, you just will bemissing a blot hole. All you have to do is get a PCM flashed without the tranny controls in it, but again, you aren't putting an LS1 in a 3rd gen for under $5,000. ANY LS1 I got I owuld tear down and rebuild because chances are it has had the crap kicked out of it. My car is just approaching the 35,000 mile barrier and it is about time to rebuild it, but I bought it to race it. Get a good GM crate engine like the ZZ4 or fast burn 385, drop it in and you are done.

[84HOtransam]

You could keep your tranny with the LS1, you just will bemissing a blot hole. All you have to do is get a PCM flashed without the tranny controls in it, but again, you aren't putting an LS1 in a 3rd gen for under $5,000. ANY LS1 I got I owuld tear down and rebuild because chances are it has had the crap kicked out of it. My car is just approaching the 35,000 mile barrier and it is about time to rebuild it, but I bought it to race it. Get a good GM crate engine like the ZZ4 or fast burn 385, drop it in and you are done.

i like the fast burn 385..it has d shaped exhaust ports so i would need to use lt1 style headers or manifolds though.....and the zz4 isnt in my power range...

[Batman]

You could get the fast burn and swap in a hotter cam also, I think at $4500ish the fastburn is a pretty good deal.

[84HOtransam]

You could get the fast burn and swap in a hotter cam also, I think at $4500ish the fastburn is a pretty good deal.

it definatly is...but would lt1 headers fit my car?

[Batman]

I'm not really sure, I would assume they would with some finagling since the 3rd gen has a bigger engine bay then the 4th, especially if you are dumping the emissions stuff. A Y-pipe may be a problem might have to have something made. Worst case you could always get regular style headers with a bigger opening then the D-port on the heads. I've also heard the ZZ4 with an LT4 hotcam or any bigger cam becomes a nasty motor in a hurry. (I've seen a car with a ZZ4/hotcam setup put 389 to the wheels with an TH-350). I think GM is a little conservative with their HP ratings on the crate engines.

[badzracing]

I'd buy a used lq9 ( 6.0) and supercharge it( used p1sc kit)...easy 550 horsies could be done for $4000 with the right sources.

[NJSPEEDER]

You could get the fast burn and swap in a hotter cam also, I think at $4500ish the fastburn is a pretty good deal.

it definatly is...but would lt1 headers fit my car?

the LT1 uses teh same exhaust as a gen1 small block. everything would bolt right up.

later
tim

[Ian]

You ever see how much power a carb'd LS1 makes? It is as good or better power wise then the EFI, just nowhere near the gas mileage. It also eliminates the need for a computer, which cuts the install cost down by about $500-$700

Exactly - same power with less milage and usually less driveability. Why not keep the EFI (since most used LS1s come with the harness and PCM already) and just spend some time cutting up the wiring harness yourself?

If I ever decided to buy an LS1, I sure as hell wouldn't slap a carb on it.

- Justin

People do that because its the heads that make the LS motors so great. The intake manifold doesnt really play that huge of a role compared to the heads. Swapping to a carb is a great way to have excellent heads that the LS1 has to offer, but still retain the ease and low cost of tuning thats associated with carbed cars. I dont see anything wrong with throwing a carb on an LS1. Some people dont want to have to buy hundreds of dollars worth of computer programs just to change the amount of fuel that enters the cylinder, when with a carb all you have to do is turn a screwdriver. It definitly keeps costs down and it keeps things simple.

[Tru2Chevy]

You ever see how much power a carb'd LS1 makes? It is as good or better power wise then the EFI, just nowhere near the gas mileage. It also eliminates the need for a computer, which cuts the install cost down by about $500-$700

Exactly - same power with less milage and usually less driveability. Why not keep the EFI (since most used LS1s come with the harness and PCM already) and just spend some time cutting up the wiring harness yourself?

If I ever decided to buy an LS1, I sure as hell wouldn't slap a carb on it.

- Justin

People do that because its the heads that make the LS motors so great. The intake manifold doesnt really play that huge of a role compared to the heads. Swapping to a carb is a great way to have excellent heads that the LS1 has to offer, but still retain the ease and low cost of tuning thats associated with carbed cars. I dont see anything wrong with throwing a carb on an LS1. Some people dont want to have to buy hundreds of dollars worth of computer programs just to change the amount of fuel that enters the cylinder, when with a carb all you have to do is turn a screwdriver. It definitly keeps costs down and it keeps things simple.

Yea, but the stock intake and FI system is already there, and HPTuners is cheaper than a good carb, intake, and ignition parts needed to run it the other way. I guess it's 6 in one, 1/2 dozen in the other for some people, but I think having an EFI car is so much easier most of the time.

- Justin

[Ian]

Like I said, some people just dont feel comfortable with fuel injection. I'm not saying one way is better than the other, its just personal preferance. :wink: