Formula 1 Fall Out(long)

[NJSPEEDER]

i dunno how many of you guys follow formula1 closely. last weekend was teh US GP at Indy.
basically what happened was that michelin showed up with a tire that couldn't with stand the forces created running a banked portion of the indy road course. bridgestone(the only other brand in F1) had a tire that could compete and last.
F1 rules have teh team running 1set of tires from the begining of qualifying through the end of the race. since the michelin tires couldn't last and were clearly unsafe all 7 teams running their tires decided to pull off the track after the installation lap(warm up lap) without going to the grid for teh standing start.
F1 decided to throw teh green and run teh race with only 6 cars on the track.

the fall out is that bernie ecklestone(the owner of the FIA who sanctions these events) has decided to place teh blame on everyone but michelin or F1.
he has made several comments about a lack of promotion of the event. amazing that you can say an event attended by over 140,000 people was not promoted well.
he also bagged on danica patrick for not doing press shoots in an F1 car. she declined saying something to the effect of she would be pictured in an F1 car when she earned an F1 ride.
the end result of this mess seems to be a serious threat to even holding a the michelin and F1 web sites are all drownign in stupid excuses at this point. many even consider this a sign of the end of formula one in the us, or at least at indy.

i don't know who i am more disappointed in after all of this.
the FIA stood by their own stupid rules, which is more than i can say for most sanctioning bodies, but it jsut proved how stupid the tire rules are. michelin could have had redesigned, safe tires ready for sundays race. under the rules any car to change tires would have been disallowed though.
the FIA also turned down an appeal requesting that an offset turn be placed on the banked portion of the track to lower speeds so teh michelin tires coudl safely compete. the person who makes this decision was all comfy sitting in england while american race fans got ripped off watching only 6 of 20 cars compete.
michelin just embarrased themselves on an international scale. how can you claim to be a great performance tire company and not show up with a safe tire.
the race distance was 73 laps. the michelin tires were shreading in 3 to 5 laps. although michelin's official statement on their web site is mostly an apology, rumblings at the track actually blamed the facility for putting down fresh pavement for teh tire failures. WTF? give a tire company good grippy pavement and their product fails? how can you blame anyone but michelin for under-engineering their product?

i hope grand prix racing stays in the US. i just hope that they get some actually racing people involved in the management of teh sanctioning body so that the retards don't completely ruin it.
[/rant]

later
tim

[NJSPEEDER]

michelin official press statement

http://www.michelinman.com/difference/releases/pressrelease06202005a.html?source=3

FIA interview with max mosley, the decision maker for formula1. land of teh softball questions

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Releases/FIA_Sport/2005/June/220605-01.html

[skorpion317]

stupid michelin...they screwed up bigtime!

[BigAls87Z28]

Hrm...Michelin has no problem with ALMS series racing, and thier product holds up.
Odd how only in F1 do they falter...
Its thoes damn bricks I tell ya.

[NJSPEEDER]

that was one of the points that was brought up during the telecast al. michelin makes tires that last on cars that are nearly 1000lbs heavier, so it doesn't really make much sense that they would throw a turd at the F1 cars.
the 7 teams that pulled off the track and reps from michelin will be called before an FIA hearing this coming week.
i don't know exactly what can be discussed. the tires were not safe at all. best they could do is yell at michelin and tell the teams they should have tried to compete in some way.
BTW, F1's complaining about teh US just got more amuzing to me. i found out the fee the FIA charges a facility is over $10million. interesting, they pay to have teh race, they pay for all teh promotion, and the FIA can't promise a competitive event.

later
tim

[slasherbarb]

not a pretty day for F1 fans such as myself...i am glad that ferrari went 1-2, but i would have liked to seen a competitve race...i think at least the 7 other teams should have tried to race, give the fans a couple laps, and then pull out if they were scared. the only reason the fans were pissed is that they all left without even trying. i blame the 7 teams that pulled out.

[Tru2Chevy]

the only reason the fans were pissed is that they all left without even trying. i blame the 7 teams that pulled out.

I don't. I don't care how much money you were paying me, if I was driving a car at over 200 mph and knew that at any minute my tire could blow there is no way you would catch me in that car. Maybe they should have stayed out there and putted around to make points, but there is no way they should have been "racing" with tires like that.

- Justin

[SteveR]

I think the one set of tires rule is rediculous. It takes the focus away from the total package of the driver, car, and team and puts it solely on the tires. Just look what happened a few weeks ago when the one guys right front blew out destroying the side of the car with only like 2 laps left. I wonder if that had anything to do with this race. I sure bet it's unsafe running one set of tires for qualifying, practice, and two more hours of hard braking, hard acceleration, tight turns, and changing temperatures. That's almost like asking NASCAR to run a single set of tires. Why has the focus been placed on tires all of a sudden? Shouldn't pit stops be a part of racing? Isn't that a part of the strategy? Like last year they forced the Daytona Prototypes to run the Hoosier tires. Why? The tires sucked and wouldn't heat cycle well and they didn't have great traction to begin with because they had to be a heavy compound because you only had two sets to run, even durring the 24 hour race so you had a ton of problems all season. You should be able to run whatever tires you want and change them when they become unsafe. Why did they institute this rule? Are rubber trees becoming extinct or something? Has the 'Save the Rubber' campaign convinced the sanctioning bodies to think about nature more? Whatever it is, it sucks.

[Scorched SS]

as much as i like ferrari - I read in autoweek that they were the only team that fought the addition of a chicayne on the high speed part of the track that made the michelins blow - and to me, that proves that they could care less about how the sport does - just about how ferrari does - weak sportsmanship... weak sauce... :(

[NJSPEEDER]

what teams did or didn't want teh chicayne doesn't really matter. mosley is the decision maker for these types of things, AND HE DOESN"T EVEN ATTEND THE GP'S. he made teh call from england to not allow teh circuit to be aletered.
btw, the owners are the ones who pushed for the "money saving" rules of a single set of tires for teh weekend and a engine sealed for two weekends. their version of "saving" money upped the average team budget by just a shade under $10,000,000. these guys are so good at saving money they shoudl work for teh government :roll:
i understand completely the drivers not wanting to compete in that way. there is no way i would be willing to try to run a 73 lap race on tires that may last 5 laps at speed. i also would not want to drop the 100mph through turn 13 that they figured it would take to make teh tires last. can you imagine going through a 1 line corner at 85-90 mph while 6 of you competitors can rip through there at 170ish?
michelin screwed teh pooch on this one and the fans who attended and the television viewers around the world got to suffer for it.

later
tim

[Fasterthanyou]

:? I feel for the fans, the teams, and Michelin.
Here's where they're all pissing me off;
From Michelin's official release:
"Given the rejection of all Michelin solutions, the only option was to advise its teams not to participate in the race with the available tires."

Now the FIA website questions to Mosly:
"... Thirdly, to run at reduced speed through Turn 13, as Michelin had requested.
How can you expect a racing driver to run at reduced speed through a corner?
They do it all the time and that is exactly what Michelin requested."

So somebody is full of ****! Now I'll probably never go see an F1 race. I don't want to be out my money to have some high dollar organizations being unprofessional with their problem solving abilities. WTF are they getting paid to do if not come up with ways to grow their sport? So without any further reading I'm just going to give both Michelin, the teams, and the FIA a big thumbs down. NASCAR might be harder to watch but at least they resolve issues fast and treat their fans with respect.
In the end though, it is Michelin's fault for having an unsafe product. It's not like they didn't know the rules and I'm sure the FIA gave them SOME options... maybe the teams just didn't like the options and would go on a strike against the rules. Either way, fans upset, hate rules and organizations that don't limit product development OR mandate a specific tire! Look at Top Fuel racing, there are ways to improve the design and stay safe... having mandated GoodYears might make them slower than if they developed their own tires but at least it's safe and affordable.

[Scorched SS]

ah - just read the article from formula one that said ferrari had nuthing to do with it... still weak sauce tho...

[SteveR]

So the teams were the ones that decided on the one set of tires per weekend rule? Didn't know that. Seeing how the average team spends $220 million per car per year, I don't see how one set of tires would save all that much money in the long run even after the R&D was finished. Seems more like a handicap than anything else.

[NJSPEEDER]

So the teams were the ones that decided on the one set of tires per weekend rule?

the teams don't actually decide. what they do is petition the fia for rules changes and hope for teh best. teh single set thing was hammered on for years as a money saver before they implemented it this season.
there is no way to make racing less expensive. if you create a rule all you did was ensure an engineer a job while he works his way around/over/through it.

later
tim

[NJSPEEDER]

Now the FIA website questions to Mosly:
"... Thirdly, to run at reduced speed through Turn 13, as Michelin had requested.
How can you expect a racing driver to run at reduced speed through a corner?
They do it all the time and that is exactly what Michelin requested."


the issue is that the teams don't lift through turn 13. they are flat on the matte from turn 11 down to the braking zoine for turn 1. that is about 22.5 seconds at full throttle.
michelin estimated teh day of teh race that they would have to run 80-100mph slower through turn 13 to make teh tires live the entire day. to ask anyone to allow a competitor a 80+mph closing speed through a 1 groove corner is a good way to get someone killed.
the simple truth is that mishelin screwed up big time. somehow teh result is a bunch of french companies pissed at the US(nothing new there).
they can blame the facility all they want, but the resurface of the race track is a regular thing. michelin shoudl have done some reserach, maybe held a test or two like they do at every other facility that F1 visits(michelin tests everywhere but indy and monte carlo) and come up with a proper tire.

later
tim