No 5th Gen F-body...

[LS1Hawk]

Just read in the new issue of Motor Trend that all the cool rear-drive cars GM had planned for around 2008 (Camaro, Chevelle, Velite, etc.) are all being shelved. The only car that they are sparing is the GTO. MT sounds pretty confident of a next gen GTO for '08.

[12secondv6]

Further proof.... GM = CRAP

[Ian]

I knew I bought that mustang for a reason :roll: .

GM is really starting to piss me off.

[skorpion317]

figure a return of the camaro around 2009, once GM gets all their GMT900 trucks settled in the market.

[Brando56894]

id love to see camaros and firebirds come back for the fifth gen in a few years

[LS1Hawk]

I knew I bought that mustang for a reason :roll: .

GM is really starting to piss me off.

MT closed the article with this: "If Chrysler Group can manage to build affordable, gotta have rear-drive Chrysler 300s, Dodge Magnums, and Chargers with optional V-8s, why can't the world's largest automaker compete?"

.... Been asking myself the same question.

[Batman]

C'mon now, GM is telling different people different things, they are dodging the question. There are still alot of legal problems with Canada over the Camaro name. Also that Motor Trend article was probably written when the Zeta platform was being killed. Afterwards Lutz said it wasn't the end of rear wheel drive cars for GM, just a delay. Bottom line is you won't know what GM is doing until you hear from somebody like Lutz.

On an interesting side note my snitch at GM here has schematics from Delphi for an airbag system for a MY2007 F-Car. So quit yer bitchin and have some faith! GM is the sneakiest car company out there. Maybe the car is gone, maybe it is on it's way, you won't know until GM decides to tell you.

[camaro2you]

I think there trying to bring it back or something like it cause they know they lost buisness when they dropped the fbody. Oh well will see in a couple of years.

[Untamed]

I think by 2007-8 the Mustang drivers will want to trade their 2005's in and look for something just a little different. GM better hit the curve at the right place and time.

Now if only they could strike a balance between sales and profitability. The GM employee discount got the sales, hopefully the money will flow shortly after.

[Savage_Messiah]

Well the MT article is after Zeta was delayed, I just got it yesterday lol. Article says while zeta was scaled scaled back months ago, its "officially" killed now, all save the GTO. WHat else is here... hmm... rothing RWD below cadillac and the vette except solstice/ky... says Holden's Zeta platforms arent considered refined enough for Buick and Chevy to compete with Chrysler and Dodge while Sigma is too expensive for non-caddy... the it goes for 3/4 of the article talking about how GM is reorganizing divisions again.


Al??

[coldkilla]

there will be no new firebird or camaro anytime in the near future. the zeta platform is as dead as britney spears' singing career. the schematics that were referred to are history, GM started work on the new camaro, there was never going to be a firebird since pontiac had the gto, and now what little existing work there was is over with. It is still unknown if the gto will continue to exist into the 2008 model year, it was supposed to receive a new zeta platform facelift by then. the only thing that might save the gto is the fact that the australians WILL continue to develop rwd cars on the zeta platform to include the monaro, the car the gto is based off of. so, again we might just receive an aussy car with an american facelift and drive train. anyways, time to face reality: you will never see another firebird, you may not be able to buy a new gto after 2007, and its about 90% certain that you wont be buying a new camaro before 2010 if at all. It really seems like GM is being run by a bunch of Jerry's Kids.

[Tru2Chevy]

The zeta thing is old news. At the same time that they announced that, they leaked info about a new smaller version named beta, and hinted at a ponycar-ish model in 08 or 09.

Bottom line: tons of rumors, no one outside GM will know for sure until something is officially announced.

- Justin

[Firebird67dude]

Last i heard aCamaro is in is first plan phase n Pontiac(is sales on the camaro are good) will come out with only the Trans Am.

[j0n]

there will never be another firebird/trans am...they're permanantly gone :cry:

[BigAls87Z28]

Ok, future rule...dont post stuff like this till i get BACK from vacation.

Yes, Camaro was slated for Zeta...and Zeta, for North America, is done for now....but for good reasons.
1- Zeta doesnt really exist...but its sister chassis, VE does. VE is Austrialia's new RWD chassis.
2- VE was approved by Holden, while part of GM, approves things differently then GM NA.
3- If you think that the GTO would make a great Camaro, then a Zeta Camaro would have fit you fine. If you think that a GTO would NOT make a good Camaro...well, you should be happy camper.
As I was getting to with #2, VE was approved by HOLDEN, and used thier process of approval. In North America, GM already has 2 major RWD chassis...incase we all forgot, Sigma and Kappa are 2 of the worlds finest RWD and AWD chassis around. Sigma underpins CTS, SRX and STS while Kappa sits under Solstice and Sky.

Sigma is what we will see Camaro ride on. A cheap version, but Sigma none the less, with probably Mcpherson struts and a cheap live axle or IRS. With Sigma II coming out in 2007, and Sigma's tooling and test, along with beeing approved for a 400hp LS6 and now LS2 with 6spd manual, 5spd auto and 6spd auto trans, already done, it seems like a stupid idea to start up tooling for Zeta, which would be wasting money on another RWD chassis.

The MT article is more "GM is teh sux0r" **** that goes around. Chrysler was graced with Diamler's gift of the old E class technology, and they were granted 2 ton vehicles...nothing says peformance like 4000lbs+.

And if anyone is really really interested, I think that all us Camaro fans will be very delighted come January in Detroit. 8)

[Ian]

And if anyone is really really interested, I think that all us Camaro fans will be very delighted come January in Detroit. 8)

If you're lying, I'm gonna rock you in the junk! But if you're right, you get to say "I told you so" as much as you want. :lol:

[PDubs87Z28]

I want the Holden Ute (El Camino) i don't know why....but i want it!!!

[jims69camaro]

And if anyone is really really interested, I think that all us Camaro fans will be very delighted come January in Detroit. 8)

If you're lying, I'm gonna rock you in the junk! But if you're right, you get to say "I told you so" as much as you want. :lol:

whoa... another bone smuggler emerges from the utility room.

[Ian]

HAHA, we call one of the guys that I work with "bone smuggler". :lol:

[Jaded1983]

check out the 5thgen/future vehicle section at camaroz28.com couple inside guys post there as well as Scot Settlemire (u guys better kno who he is! :D )

Anyway, that site is always up to date and will give u the best view on what the future of the camaro will be like. And that future looks good :wink:

[12secondv6]

GM bought the rights of the dodge neon!!!!

GM will produce a RWD SEXY neon with a V8!!!!

Then... you will ALL ADMIT, NEON + SEXY!!!! 8)

[Savage_Messiah]

GM bought the rights of the dodge neon!!!!

GM will produce a RWD SEXY neon with a V8!!!!

Then... you will ALL ADMIT, NEON + SEXY!!!! 8)

I will admit, neon + sexy...




























= OXYMORON

[lrdvadr]

And if anyone is really really interested, I think that all us Camaro fans will be very delighted come January in Detroit. 8)

If you're lying, I'm gonna rock you in the junk! But if you're right, you get to say "I told you so" as much as you want. :lol:

I am going to NAIAS in Detroit this January for the unveiling of a Chevrolet product on the first Press Day that will hopefully prove Big Al correct. :D

[NJSPEEDER]

And if anyone is really really interested, I think that all us Camaro fans will be very delighted come January in Detroit. 8)

that is the one and only reason i cared about making it there this year. hotel has high speed connection, i have digital camera and lap top, know what i'm saying kids? :D

later
tim

[Ian]

And if anyone is really really interested, I think that all us Camaro fans will be very delighted come January in Detroit. Â*8)

that is the one and only reason i cared about making it there this year. hotel has high speed connection, i have digital camera and lap top, know what i'm saying kids? :D

later
tim

I'm reading what you're writing :wink:

if you do go, run to the "new GM product" take as many pics as you can and run back to the hotel and post them up. then you can go back to the show and look around at a normal pace. :lol:

[NJSPEEDER]

i am gonna be in detroit for 4 days. i will have plenty of pics of everything to share :)

later
tim

[BigAls87Z28]

There is a contest drawing that Mr.Fbodyfather is drawing for a select few people. Apparently, I dont get to go. :cry:
And with school starting a week early, I dunno if I will be able to go at all.

[qwikz28]

GM is trying to file for bankruptcy...

yeah laugh all you want, i'm a geek and i read all that market and financial news almost daily.

[skorpion317]

GM is trying to file for bankruptcy...

yeah laugh all you want, i'm a geek and i read all that market and financial news almost daily.

do you know the utter and absolute havoc that would wreak on the U.S. economy? GM, and the country itself, cannot afford for them to go bankrupt. Hell, even their competitors can't afford for that to happen. one of Toyota's execs talked about it ealier this year. If GM goes down, they all go down.

[Ian]

GM is trying to file for bankruptcy...

yeah laugh all you want, i'm a geek and i read all that market and financial news almost daily.

do you know the utter and absolute havoc that would wreak on the U.S. economy? GM, and the country itself, cannot afford for them to go bankrupt. Hell, even their competitors can't afford for that to happen. one of Toyota's execs talked about it ealier this year. If GM goes down, they all go down.

good, this will be interesting to see what happens :lol:

[qwikz28]

GM is trying to file for bankruptcy...

yeah laugh all you want, i'm a geek and i read all that market and financial news almost daily.

do you know the utter and absolute havoc that would wreak on the U.S. economy? GM, and the country itself, cannot afford for them to go bankrupt. Hell, even their competitors can't afford for that to happen. one of Toyota's execs talked about it ealier this year. If GM goes down, they all go down.bankruptcy wouldn't be so bad. it would actually give GM a chance to invest its money into new products as opposed to paying its debts. If GM were to go down then pretty much every foreign manufacturer would take a huge hit. but the chances of GM going down under are slim to none. i guarentee GM will no longer be the largest very soon.

this predicament is solely the american public's fault. why the hell are we still buying foreign? would it make sense to spend more on a new car that is a little better and then lose even more money on watching our economy take a dump? someone should speak up. if i could get in front of a camera i would say something.

ps- if GM is doing so ****** why won't they budge anymore then $1000 on an equinox? jerks :wink:

[BigAls87Z28]

GM does NOT have plans to file Chap 11. This was rumor since Delphi did, but right now GM is planning to work with what they got. Its still a posibility, but that would be the absolute worst case. They could do like Sears did, and cut all benifits from the retired workers, which would net them about 5 billion a year.

As for America not buying American, its all perception. Why is it that when the G6 was "recalled" for a missing page in its owners manual, it was on every news report, but when Toyota recalled 1.3 million cars last week, I didnt hear jack?
What about all the Prius's getting recalled for electrical problems?
What about the Scion tC's roof breaking and injuring the passangers?
What about the US Goverment probe into Toyota's failing air bags?
What about Honda's on going problem with there 5spd auto's?
How about spontanious combustion of the new Mazda 5?
How many of you knew about the above recalls?

Its perception. GM has won many JD quality awards from there cars to there plants, and still no one will give GM a second thought. There cars are at the levels of the imports or greater, yet no one is coming out to buy one. One thing that is sort of hurting GM right now is the Employee Pricing seemed to have done such a great job, that no one wants to buy cars right now!!
As for budging on pricing, they LOWERD the price of all there cars, some by 3k or so, added more standard features, AND are still giving rebates.

[JL8Jeff]

I agree Al, it's definitely a perception thing. It's also an owner maintenance thing. Import car owners are religeous about the maintenance being done right at the right time. Domestic car owners expect their car to run for 500,000 miles without changing the oil! I know more Toyota/Honda/Nissan owners who have spent a lot of money on maintenance and then try to brag about the resale value and quality. And Ive watched my brother pretty much run 2 Hondas into the ground and he even had normal maintenance done to them.

But I keep hearing to wait until January for the big news from GM sohang in there everybody. It's not like any of us could afford a new Camaro if it came back right now anyway.

[qwikz28]

GM does NOT have plans to file Chap 11. Â*This was rumor since Delphi did, but right now GM is planning to work with what they got. Â*Its still a posibility, but that would be the absolute worst case. Â*They could do like Sears did, and cut all benifits from the retired workers, which would net them about 5 billion a year. Â*

As for America not buying American, its all perception. Â*Why is it that when the G6 was "recalled" for a missing page in its owners manual, it was on every news report, but when Toyota recalled 1.3 million cars last week, I didnt hear jack?
What about all the Prius's getting recalled for electrical problems?
What about the Scion tC's roof breaking and injuring the passangers?
What about the US Goverment probe into Toyota's failing air bags?
What about Honda's on going problem with there 5spd auto's?
How about spontanious combustion of the new Mazda 5?
How many of you knew about the above recalls?

Its perception. Â*GM has won many JD quality awards from there cars to there plants, and still no one will give GM a second thought. Â*There cars are at the levels of the imports or greater, yet no one is coming out to buy one. Â*One thing that is sort of hurting GM right now is the Employee Pricing seemed to have done such a great job, that no one wants to buy cars right now!! Â*
As for budging on pricing, they LOWERD the price of all there cars, some by 3k or so, added more standard features, AND are still giving rebates.so i will respond with why are we still buying foreign? something has to be swaying people to buy japanese and german.

the equinox is supposedly selling half decently so they only discounted the price by 1k. i was hoping for a good 2 or 3k price break but they would only give me 9k off on a trailblazer instead :scratch:

[V]

well in january, my gf and I will be going to the NAIAS as well, it starts on saturday the 14th i believe but i'm gouing to go to the show on monday and oprobably tuesday as well, more days if needed. I want to see what GM plans to bring out, i figure by 2010 i may be in the market for another sports car if something is available, and hopefully ill get a decent preveiw of what may be around. plus i heard rumors there may be a camaro concept there this year, who knows. i have off all winter so i figure i might as well go to the auto show at least one time in my life. Not to mention my sister lives in detroit.... On a side note, anyone know of a nice hotel right there, i havent looked yet, i wnat soemthign in walkign distance a comfyrtable, price doesnt matter much, and i refuse to stays at my sis's house.

[qwikz28]

i refuse to stays at my sis's house. :funny:

[V]

lol, Â* :lol: Â*wow i also just noticed how bad of a typer i am, a lot of errors, oh well this aint english class, but yeah, i dont care for my sister at all. Â*last winter i was out in detroit picking up some trans am parts, and well around 8:30 pm i called her to tell her i was in town(literally 8 blocks from her street) and i asked if i could stop by to see her house and just say hi for like 10 minutes, then id head home. Well, she then told me to hold on cause she had to ask her bf if it was ok i come by, keep in mind SHE bought the house, SHE was the only one working then, but SHE had to ask him, the brainwashing bf, Â*so i said forget it and i just came back to NJ. Â*plus id prefer a nice hotel room with a large bed for me and my gf, no pull out couches or crap like that.

[BigAls87Z28]

Actualy, the Nox is selling well. GM has had several big sellers such as the Malibu, Nox, and Cobalt, all which outsell the Mustang and 300, yet non of which get the same press as they do.

As for NAIAS, there will most deffinatly be a Camaro concept there, and there will also be a 4dr sedan based off the same chassis. Speculation abounds, with names such as Caprice, Impala and Bel Air.

They can give a bigger break on Tblazers because they have a higher profit margin then the Nox and arent selling as well. The Nox is picking up a lot of the Tblazers buyers looking for more fuel economy with the same cargo room, and it comes with AWD option. Only downer about the Nox is the waste of space 3.4 engine. I would hope that by next year it gets the 3.5 VVT from the Impala to bring its game up.

[qwikz28]

Actualy, the Nox is selling well. Â*GM has had several big sellers such as the Malibu, Nox, and Cobalt, all which outsell the Mustang and 300, yet non of which get the same press as they do. Â*

As for NAIAS, there will most deffinatly be a Camaro concept there, and there will also be a 4dr sedan based off the same chassis. Â*Speculation abounds, with names such as Caprice, Impala and Bel Air. Â*

They can give a bigger break on Tblazers because they have a higher profit margin then the Nox and arent selling as well. Â*The Nox is picking up a lot of the Tblazers buyers looking for more fuel economy with the same cargo room, and it comes with AWD option. Â*Only downer about the Nox is the waste of space 3.4 engine. Â*I would hope that Â*by next year it gets the 3.5 VVT from the Impala to bring its game up.any way to tell if that motor will be changed? i delayed my decision to get a new car. i would wait longer if i knew it was getting a bigger motor. thats my only quibble about the nox is its lack of balls.

the equinox is a great car btw... it impressed me tons more then many of the other trucks i have seen on the market. especially its two biggest competitors the liberty and the escape. the liberty was decent but the escape was just dodo. the equinox is the best looking of the three also

[qwikz28]

lol, Â* :lol: Â*wow i also just noticed how bad of a typer i am, a lot of errors, oh well this aint english class, but yeah, i dont care for my sister at all. Â*last winter i was out in detroit picking up some trans am parts, and well around 8:30 pm i called her to tell her i was in town(literally 8 blocks from her street) and i asked if i could stop by to see her house and just say hi for like 10 minutes, then id head home. Well, she then told me to hold on cause she had to ask her bf if it was ok i come by, keep in mind SHE bought the house, SHE was the only one working then, but SHE had to ask him, the brainwashing bf, Â*so i said forget it and i just came back to NJ. Â*plus id prefer a nice hotel room with a large bed for me and my gf, no pull out couches or crap like that.i wasnt laughing at your grammer. i was laughing about you not wanting to stay with your sister. i have a older sister and i know what thats like

[Ian]

lol, Â* :lol: Â*wow i also just noticed how bad of a typer i am, a lot of errors, oh well this aint english class, but yeah, i dont care for my sister at all. Â*last winter i was out in detroit picking up some trans am parts, and well around 8:30 pm i called her to tell her i was in town(literally 8 blocks from her street) and i asked if i could stop by to see her house and just say hi for like 10 minutes, then id head home. Well, she then told me to hold on cause she had to ask her bf if it was ok i come by, keep in mind SHE bought the house, SHE was the only one working then, but SHE had to ask him, the brainwashing bf, Â*so i said forget it and i just came back to NJ. Â*plus id prefer a nice hotel room with a large bed for me and my gf, no pull out couches or crap like that.i wasnt laughing at your grammer. i was laughing about you not wanting to stay with your sister. i have a older sister and i know what thats like

:werd:

I went to NC to visit my older sister and she drove me nuts!!!

[BigAls87Z28]

actualy, the 3.4 combined with the 5spd auto makes for a pretty potent combo. I belive its the fastest out of all the cute utes. 3.5 is expected for MY2007.

[jims69camaro]

holy post reanimator, batman.

why are people still buying foreign? it's called brand loyalty. ask anyone who is still buying foreign and they'll rehash all of the '80s crap, like GM doesn't know how to build a quality car and so on. they've got it in their heads that only the japs/krauts know how to build cars and america couldn't build a good car to save their lives. dumb, huh?

GM has been dropping the ball, in my eyes, but i am an enthusiast. i am not a normal new car buyer. i'll wait for something exciting, fun to drive, like the solstice with a V8. a new camaro would be the best thing they could do, for me, so GM has a reprieve until january 2006. wait and see...

[BigAls87Z28]

Exactly right, its all perception. They remember the 70's and 80's of when GM cars had BIG V8s that sucked gas, fell apart every day, while little Honda's and Toyota's gained in popularity with being very cheap, very fuel efficent, and lasting a long time without too much to worry about.
The Big 3 had let this slide for too long, looking at these little comanies and laughing while people were buying. They got better and made more money per car then the American version, then by the mid 90's, Ford and GM moved all there money into trucks and SUV's, while leaving the car market alone to fend off greater and greater cars from the imports.
It is only NOW that GM has removed its head from its ass, and is trying to catch on to whatever is left, but the problem might be that its too late and that they have lost a whole generation, possibly a second generation to imports.
10-15 years ago, Lexus was just an entry level luxury car, now its considerd to be one of the pinicles of luxury!!
Honda just made little 4 banger tin cans, now they make entry level sporty V6 sedans that are blowing away the competition.
And look at Nissan. Cheap inside and out, but they threw on some fancy sheetmetal (still cheap on the inside) and is one of the fastest growing car companies out there, and is probably the most profitable in the world.

Problem is that GM and Ford, as well as DCX all make cars that are better then what they have to offer, yet just perception of "oh Chevy's are junk" wont go away. Be it tied into incentive plans, or just a long dislike and distrust for the company. Who knows, but The Jap Big 3 keep gaining in sales, while the US Big 3 are holding by the skin of there teeth.

[12secondv6]

So..... the new camaro is a 3.4L FWD?
And... that's the biggest engine they are offering? :wink:

[qwikz28]

you guys just made me feel so young... the whole brand loyalty idea set a light bulb off in my head. that makes sense to me. what doesnt make sense to me is why someone would spend so much money for a bmw when there are so many better low priced alternatives. i have driven many BMWs and i know for a fact they just money pits. people know that but they still buy them and complain all day

[BigAls87Z28]

People buy it for status. Which is why we see so many of the entry level 323 or 325 BMW's out there, as well as C230's and Audi A4 FWD and Lexus ES330's.
Its an image thing. Its the badge on the front.
Its a perception thing on many levels such as quality, luxury and even economy.
Toyota has gotten this image of undestructablity and making "green" cars. The only "green" thoes cars are making is American dollars. As of now, there is only ONE single hyrbid car that they make, the Prius, and many have spend 5, 10 and even 15k over sticker for what amounts to be an ugly Corolla with an electric motor. Many have reported not getting the claimed world saving gas milage. But, its an image. Its "Hey, I drive a car that doesnt use much gas while you drive that gas sucking SUV you ahole!" image.
But thats where it gets funny see. GM and Ford are both "known" for there trucks and SUV's. Gas guzzlers, spewwing toxic emissions and killing small children and old people as they drive by ARR!!
Well, its only recently that the Enviromentalists are looking at Toyota's trucks and SUV's.
Smaller displacment engines, making less power, getting WORSE gas milage then GM's larger, more powerful V8's.
Gas guzzle that