GM hath gone the way of the rice

[foff667]

http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersource/html/home.htm

[Untamed]

I like the way the Cobalt looks on the website. Looks like a racecar, not an import with a bazillion stickers. :shrug:

[sikbyrd350]

GM should've given the kind of backing to the F-body's.
Athough it is a step towards rice, maybe they're planning to carry over this type of backing to the GTO and other RWD V8 perfomance cars to come. Hopefully it's the start of GM's SVT or SRT.

[BigAls87Z28]

GM should've given the kind of backing to the F-body's.
Athough it is a step towards rice, maybe they're planning to carry over this type of backing to the GTO and other RWD V8 perfomance cars to come. Hopefully it's the start of GM's SVT or SRT.

GM has a Special Division, its called GM Performance Division...
They created such cars like the CTS-V, Z06, Cobalt SS, Trailblazer SS, Ion Redline.
And GM does back up its RWD V8 performance cars. C6-R in ALMS, CTS-V in SCCA World GT class, as well as the GTO in American Drift.
In fact, Mark Reuss, who is head of the division, created a third CTS-V and raced it last year.
Now tell me where is Chrysler and Ford's head racing in their cars? Where is a Ford backed SVT Cobra? Only Mustang I see is in SCCA Grand Am racing, where Chevy sponsors a handful of Cobalt SS's.
If anyone walks the walk, its GM.
And I will go back even further...GM did support the Fbody. Anyone remember IROC? It wasnt just a sticker on the side of high optioned third gens. Camaros ran in IROC from the 70's to 90, and now the Crown Royal IROC series has 02 Trans Ams.

[jims69camaro]

why does it seem like GM is always a step behind? while the tuner market has definitely hit a plateau, if not a decline in total market, GM comes charging in with a handful of cars. uh, where were they five years ago?

i've started to lose faith in the general. if they fail to resurrect the f-body (or whatever you want to call it, as long as it's RWD with an LS2/6 and with a drag coefficient similar to the corvette's and they call it Camaro) i would seriously think about jumping ship. i'd be the first in three generations to not be driving a GM product. how long is the waiting list for the shelby mustang...

[Untamed]

Isn't the Trans Am still used in the IROC series? Last years photos show 12 TAs.

[Tru2Chevy]

Isn't the Trans Am still used in the IROC series? Last years photos show 12 TAs.

Camaros ran in IROC from the 70's to 90, and now the Crown Royal IROC series has 02 Trans Ams.

There's your answer :wink:

- Justin

[12secondv6]

GM = :barf:

[Tru2Chevy]

GM = :banana:

That's more like it.....

- Justin

[BigAls87Z28]

No one makes more fun to drive RWD vehicles, over such a range and at such a price outside of GM.
But because they dont make a Camaro or Fbird...they are crap.

[coldkilla]

last i checked, gm trucks werent really "fun to drive" performance vehicles and i highly doubt that the real gm diehards ie. young people that buy based off of performance and not wood grain on the dash, can afford new gto's cts-v's, sts, corvettes and xlr's. gm has lost the fun to drive performance rwd title. if anything, damchrys has the ball now as far as having semi affordable rwd performance in multiple packages. thats fact not opinion

[sikbyrd350]

GM should've given the kind of backing to the F-body's.
Athough it is a step towards rice, maybe they're planning to carry over this type of backing to the GTO and other RWD V8 perfomance cars to come. Hopefully it's the start of GM's SVT or SRT.

GM has a Special Division, its called GM Performance Division...
They created such cars like the CTS-V, Z06, Cobalt SS, Trailblazer SS, Ion Redline.
And GM does back up its RWD V8 performance cars. C6-R in ALMS, CTS-V in SCCA World GT class, as well as the GTO in American Drift.
In fact, Mark Reuss, who is head of the division, created a third CTS-V and raced it last year.
Now tell me where is Chrysler and Ford's head racing in their cars? Where is a Ford backed SVT Cobra? Only Mustang I see is in SCCA Grand Am racing, where Chevy sponsors a handful of Cobalt SS's.
If anyone walks the walk, its GM.
And I will go back even further...GM did support the Fbody. Anyone remember IROC? It wasnt just a sticker on the side of high optioned third gens. Camaros ran in IROC from the 70's to 90, and now the Crown Royal IROC series has 02 Trans Ams.

I should've been clearer, I didn't mean for pro racing, I meant for the street. Yeah, these cars are great and all but I don't have $33K+ to spend on a NEW car, but I want more performance than a Cobalt/Ion has to offer. There is no middle ground since the F-body was done in which is why I looked elsewhere.
Even then, can I order a Stage 1, 2, or 3 Cobalt or Ion from the factory w/ a warranty? No. What's my option with the GTO? M6 or A4. I'm sure if they made cloth seating, a base stereo, and a few other un-neccessary items an option, it would put the GTO in F-body pricing which would've made it competitive w/ the Mustang AND made a whole lot of F-body fans happy.
All I'm saying is to look and SRT(not so much SVT), and take a hint.

[JL8Jeff]

I probably shouldn't admit it, but the Cobalt doesn't look too bad to me. It's obviously aimed towards the "tuners" but at least it's a GM vehicle so I wouldn't mind owning one. I would prefer a turbo over the supercharger though.

[skorpion317]

last i checked, gm trucks werent really "fun to drive" performance vehicles and i highly doubt that the real gm diehards ie. young people that buy based off of performance and not wood grain on the dash, can afford new gto's cts-v's, sts, corvettes and xlr's. gm has lost the fun to drive performance rwd title. if anything, damchrys has the ball now as far as having semi affordable rwd performance in multiple packages. thats fact not opinion

what semi affordable RWD performance car does daimler-chrysler have? if you're talking about a Charger, you're wrong. the V6's are sluggish, and if you can find a Hemi version for less that $30K, you must have found a stolen one.

Even the Mustangs aren't affordable anymore. an '05 Mustang GT goes for about $30K around my area. My local Pontiac dealer has an '04 GTO for $25K (with 4,000 miles on it!) and they had an '05 for $30K, which got sold REAL quick.

I'll agree that GM doesn't have any affordable RWD performance cars, at the moment. When the Solstice/Sky come out, GM will have something on their hands. and if they ever get the ball rolling again with a new Camaro....I suspect that we wouldn't have so many people jumping ship.

[BigAls87Z28]

Exactly, GM doesnt have an Fbdoy, so they suck and they are horrible and dont know performance.
GM cannot get credit where credit is due. They make awesome performance vehicles. Just because YOU cant afford them doesnt mean that they suck. Outside of the Mustang, what does Ford have to really give you a thrill? Any 400hp or 440hp Linc's or Merc's?
Any 500hp cars from Chrysler that are under 70k?

The 300, Charger and Magnum are OVER 30k for a 340hp Hemi, and a GTO is 32k, and you get 400hp...and its a coupe, not a station wagon or a sedan. And the interior quality is much higher.
The Mustang GT offers LT1 performance in a 40 year old wrapper with a third gen suspension. I gotta pay 28k for one of thoes?

Again...its bad bad bad for GM. GM sucks because they dont offer an Fbody, a car that you really couldnt get unless it was a 30k SS. I forgot how affordable they really where.
(Insert everyone who got there stripper Z28's for a under 20k)

Please, spare me the crap. Camaro is coming, but Im sure everyone will make a biiiiig hissy becaue it doesnt look like a 69 Camaro. I wonder if everyone will get upset that there isnt a 454 carb with either a 3spd TH350 or a 4spd M22 option. :roll:

[foff667]

Exactly, GM doesnt have an Fbdoy, so they suck and they are horrible and dont know performance.
GM cannot get credit where credit is due. They make awesome performance vehicles. Just because YOU cant afford them doesnt mean that they suck. Outside of the Mustang, what does Ford have to really give you a thrill? Any 400hp or 440hp Linc's or Merc's?
Any 500hp cars from Chrysler that are under 70k?

The 300, Charger and Magnum are OVER 30k for a 340hp Hemi, and a GTO is 32k, and you get 400hp...and its a coupe, not a station wagon or a sedan. And the interior quality is much higher.
The Mustang GT offers LT1 performance in a 40 year old wrapper with a third gen suspension. I gotta pay 28k for one of thoes?

Again...its bad bad bad for GM. GM sucks because they dont offer an Fbody, a car that you really couldnt get unless it was a 30k SS. I forgot how affordable they really where.
(Insert everyone who got there stripper Z28's for a under 20k)

Please, spare me the crap. Camaro is coming, but Im sure everyone will make a biiiiig hissy becaue it doesnt look like a 69 Camaro. I wonder if everyone will get upset that there isnt a 454 carb with either a 3spd TH350 or a 4spd M22 option. :roll:

we all love you Al...everyone lets give al a big hug whatdoyasay guys :flower: its ok man. Now calm the **** down lol

[BigAls87Z28]

I am calm, its just a little fustraiting that people get so uppity about ONE single car. Yeah, we alllll miss the Camaro, but to say GM sucks at performance is downright ingnorant and stupid.

[Ian]

The reason people are getting all up in arms about GM not having the F-body is because we all really liked them. they were great cars and they were cheaper than anything thats available today as far as performance goes. I know the GTO is a great car, but some of us dont want the luxury interior, we want to be able to get cloth seats to keep costs down. We don't want the independent rear suspension we want a solid rear axle even if its a weak one. the fact that GM doesnt offer an LSx RWD car for under 30K is why everyone is bitching. There is nothing wrong with all the cars GM makes right now. They are all very nice automobiles, but they are no F-body replacements. Because rumors of the F-body coming back started so early, we all thought it would almost be back by now. and with GM killing the platform that was slated to carry the F-body, people got pissed (i know, they are gonna use kappa or whatever its called). I dont hate Gm and I know they make good cars, but as of right now, GM doesnt have any cars available in the market that I'd like (ie, cheap RWD V8 ). I'm sure everyone else who has said GM+crap feels the same way.


/rant

[BigAls87Z28]

Forget Zeta. Zeta never existed. There was never a Zeta chassis, Zeta was a name of a bunch of numbers that could be a chassis, but that was killed.

Dont think that GM just has ONE chassis and ONE design team.
Everyone here should read the story of the Two Sport Bikes.

[foff667]

we want a solid rear axle even if its a weak one.

speak for yourself :lol:

[enRo]

GM = :banana:

That's more like it.....

- Justin

:kneeslap:

[Ian]

Forget Zeta. Zeta never existed. There was never a Zeta chassis, Zeta was a name of a bunch of numbers that could be a chassis, but that was killed.

Dont think that GM just has ONE chassis and ONE design team.
Everyone here should read the story of the Two Sport Bikes.

I was just stating that people got hyped up because they thought it was gonna be on that platform, so when it got killed, everyone THOUGHT the camaro died too. I'm on your side with this one, no more friendly fire! :lol:

[badzracing]

last i checked, gm trucks werent really "fun to drive" performance vehicles and i highly doubt that the real gm diehards ie. young people that buy based off of performance and not wood grain on the dash, can afford new gto's cts-v's, sts, corvettes and xlr's. gm has lost the fun to drive performance rwd title. if anything, damchrys has the ball now as far as having semi affordable rwd performance in multiple packages. thats fact not opinion You need a ride with me, bro. I think my not so fun to drive truck may change your mind. :twisted:

[ar0ck]

:hitit:

[Savage_Messiah]

Exactly, GM doesnt have an Fbdoy, so they suck and they are horrible and dont know performance.
GM cannot get credit where credit is due. They make awesome performance vehicles. Just because YOU cant afford them doesnt mean that they suck. Outside of the Mustang, what does Ford have to really give you a thrill? Any 400hp or 440hp Linc's or Merc's?
Any 500hp cars from Chrysler that are under 70k?

The 300, Charger and Magnum are OVER 30k for a 340hp Hemi, and a GTO is 32k, and you get 400hp...and its a coupe, not a station wagon or a sedan. And the interior quality is much higher.
The Mustang GT offers LT1 performance in a 40 year old wrapper with a third gen suspension. I gotta pay 28k for one of thoes?

Again...its bad bad bad for GM. GM sucks because they dont offer an Fbody, a car that you really couldnt get unless it was a 30k SS. I forgot how affordable they really where.
(Insert everyone who got there stripper Z28's for a under 20k)

Please, spare me the crap. Camaro is coming, but Im sure everyone will make a biiiiig hissy becaue it doesnt look like a 69 Camaro. I wonder if everyone will get upset that there isnt a 454 carb with either a 3spd TH350 or a 4spd M22 option. :roll:

we all love you Al...everyone lets give al a big hug whatdoyasay guys :flower: its ok man. Now calm the **** down lol


:stupid:
gm = crap ;) :lol:

[jims69camaro]

No one makes more fun to drive RWD vehicles, over such a range and at such a price outside of GM.
But because they dont make a Camaro or Fbird...they are crap.

why does it seem like GM is always a step behind? while the tuner market has definitely hit a plateau, if not a decline in total market, GM comes charging in with a handful of cars. uh, where were they five years ago?

i've started to lose faith in the general. if they fail to resurrect the f-body (or whatever you want to call it, as long as it's RWD with an LS2/6 and with a drag coefficient similar to the corvette's and they call it Camaro) i would seriously think about jumping ship. i'd be the first in three generations to not be driving a GM product. how long is the waiting list for the shelby mustang...

i seem to be throwing in more than just the camaro. and i'm only half joking about the mustang. i don't hate GM that much... yet.

a stripped down GTO was supposed to be in the around-$20k region. i don't think i've seen or heard about a GTO for less than $30k. that's not an entry-level car by any means. even these tuners would be hard pressed to come up with the nut to purchase one of GM's new cars (without mommy and daddy). actually, very few people would be able to. so much for marketing to the masses...

[foff667]

No one makes more fun to drive RWD vehicles, over such a range and at such a price outside of GM.
But because they dont make a Camaro or Fbird...they are crap.

why does it seem like GM is always a step behind? while the tuner market has definitely hit a plateau, if not a decline in total market, GM comes charging in with a handful of cars. uh, where were they five years ago?

i've started to lose faith in the general. if they fail to resurrect the f-body (or whatever you want to call it, as long as it's RWD with an LS2/6 and with a drag coefficient similar to the corvette's and they call it Camaro) i would seriously think about jumping ship. i'd be the first in three generations to not be driving a GM product. how long is the waiting list for the shelby mustang...

i seem to be throwing in more than just the camaro. and i'm only half joking about the mustang. i don't hate GM that much... yet.

a stripped down GTO was supposed to be in the around-$20k region. i don't think i've seen or heard about a GTO for less than $30k. that's not an entry-level car by any means. even these tuners would be hard pressed to come up with the nut to purchase one of GM's new cars (without mommy and daddy). actually, very few people would be able to. so much for marketing to the masses...

i know a few people that bought them between 18-20k in jan-march of this year when dealers couldnt get rid of them fast enough hehe.

[skorpion317]

Please, spare me the crap. Camaro is coming, but Im sure everyone will make a biiiiig hissy becaue it doesnt look like a 69 Camaro. I wonder if everyone will get upset that there isnt a 454 carb with either a 3spd TH350 or a 4spd M22 option. :roll:

i for one hope the new Camaro does NOT look like the first gens. retro styling is WAAAAYYY overdone....gimme something that has an evolutionary link to the 4th gens. granted, the concept shots everyone's seen look good, but I wouldn't want the looks of the car to be the gimmick, like Ford is doing.

[jims69camaro]

Please, spare me the crap. Camaro is coming, but Im sure everyone will make a biiiiig hissy becaue it doesnt look like a 69 Camaro. I wonder if everyone will get upset that there isnt a 454 carb with either a 3spd TH350 or a 4spd M22 option. :roll:

i for one hope the new Camaro does NOT look like the first gens. retro styling is WAAAAYYY overdone....gimme something that has an evolutionary link to the 4th gens. granted, the concept shots everyone's seen look good, but I wouldn't want the looks of the car to be the gimmick, like Ford is doing.

maybe the retro styling is the reason why they are selling so many mustangs? that, and the fact that GM is not in the game, nor even expected to show up.

[JL8Jeff]

If I was in the market for a new car, I would want a performance car that had a V8, rear wheel drive, around 300 hp and it would have to cost less than $25K. I don't think anybody wants to build a car like that today. They have to load them up with cushy options so they can base price them at $30K. "We all need a remote operated passenger side power drink holder so let's make it standard"! Yeah, that's the kind of marketing we need. :roll: So it looks like I'll continue to buy used vehicles. As for the retro Mustang, it's just a bunch of pony car bandwagon people buying it because they remember the first time they ever saw a Mustang. They can park it next to their retro T-bird! :barf:

[BigAls87Z28]

The Mustang, stripped down, sells at 25k. The days of V8 performance under 25k is over. Times change, and inflation is moving foward. I expect the Camaro to come in, with a 330hp 5.3 in either 6spd auto or 6spd manual to be around 26k. Most people when they buy the hi-po car, want the extra goodies. Not EVERONE who buys a car wants to buy it for racing. If you want to race it, thats why man invented modification, and therefor the reason why we are here. I know I want race-like additions, but I dont expect to spend little to get it. I figured a Camaro Z28, loaded as i want, is deffinatly going to be approaching 30k, and fast. Thats almost twice what my father paid in 1987, and that was more then 4 times as much as his father paid for his 72. If I can get a 400hp, 2+2 coupe, aggressive style and modern options with modern appointments for around 30k, I will be more then happy to hand over my hard earned money.


On a lighter note, here is a picture I put together. Some of you have seen it, but most have not...
enjoy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/BigAlZ/CamaroReborn.jpg

[sikbyrd350]

The Mustang, stripped down, sells at 25k. The days of V8 performance under 25k is over. Times change, and inflation is moving foward. I expect the Camaro to come in, with a 330hp 5.3 in either 6spd auto or 6spd manual to be around 26k. Most people when they buy the hi-po car, want the extra goodies. Not EVERONE who buys a car wants to buy it for racing. If you want to race it, thats why man invented modification, and therefor the reason why we are here. I know I want race-like additions, but I dont expect to spend little to get it. I figured a Camaro Z28, loaded as i want, is deffinatly going to be approaching 30k, and fast. Thats almost twice what my father paid in 1987, and that was more then 4 times as much as his father paid for his 72. If I can get a 400hp, 2+2 coupe, aggressive style and modern options with modern appointments for around 30k, I will be more then happy to hand over my hard earned money.


On a lighter note, here is a picture I put together. Some of you have seen it, but most have not...
enjoy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/BigAlZ/CamaroReborn.jpg
nice rendition :D

if there was a GM RWD V8 in that price range, I would've bought that instead of an EVO. I still may when/if it comes out. But like I stated before, GM lost a quite a few sales because they haven't had anything like that in a few years and HOPEFULLY, when/if it comes out, everyone will be tired of the stang. After all, the 'stang is in a class of 1 right now.

[Ian]

If GM can price the camaro under 30 grand, I'll buy one.

[BigAls87Z28]

I have no doubt that they will be able to keep the price under 30k, but dont look for a full loaded Z28 with LS2, upgrade suspension, to fly under 30k.
A 5.3 310-320hp, equiped equaly to the Mustang will be priced about the Mustang.

[JL8Jeff]

I couldn't find a new Mustang with the V8 for under $30K. I don't think any of the car makers can offer a V8 rear wheel drive car for under $30K in this day and age.

[Fasterthanyou]

Tuners... tuners? :? Sorry but last time I checked there were more tuners tuning FAST cars. Not slow wrong wheel drive vehicles. What do you call those guys? Don't insult me by calling the compact car 4 banger wrong wheel drive crowd "tuners." It's pathetic how little they actually know about the vehicles.

[JL8Jeff]

Yeah, I always wondered how they got the name "tuners" when all they know is how to put on stickers.

[skorpion317]

The Mustang, stripped down, sells at 25k. The days of V8 performance under 25k is over. Times change, and inflation is moving foward. I expect the Camaro to come in, with a 330hp 5.3 in either 6spd auto or 6spd manual to be around 26k. Most people when they buy the hi-po car, want the extra goodies. Not EVERONE who buys a car wants to buy it for racing. If you want to race it, thats why man invented modification, and therefor the reason why we are here. I know I want race-like additions, but I dont expect to spend little to get it. I figured a Camaro Z28, loaded as i want, is deffinatly going to be approaching 30k, and fast. Thats almost twice what my father paid in 1987, and that was more then 4 times as much as his father paid for his 72. If I can get a 400hp, 2+2 coupe, aggressive style and modern options with modern appointments for around 30k, I will be more then happy to hand over my hard earned money.


On a lighter note, here is a picture I put together. Some of you have seen it, but most have not...
enjoy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/BigAlZ/CamaroReborn.jpg

good rendition.....but i wouldn't call it a camaro. reminds me of a hardtop Saturn Sky, but bulkier. either that, or a new Charger. I'd rather have a sleeker, but still muscular, Camaro.