So you think GM will make the Camaro?

[LS1Hawk]

The guys at GM keep saying "It's just a concept," or "More important things are on the board right now," blah, blah, blah. So far, the public AND the press (can you believe it? good press for GM these days?!) are going crazy over the concept. I was listening to WABC over the weekend and the guy who is on Sunday morning started his show saying, "Have you seen that new Camaro? I want one." And just today on, well the Today show, Al Roker was in Detroit at the Auto Show...and what was he sitting in doing his report from? The Camaro. There is no way this car isn't going to be built.

[nj85z28]

youd be surprised. imagine if it comes out and disapoints? GM would look like even bigger asses

[LS1Hawk]

True.

[BigAls87Z28]

First off, let me get this out by saying that GM has yet to dissappoint on a performance car YET.
People wanted a better Vette with a nicer interior and smaller dimensions, wham, C6
People wanted a Vette to smoke not only the Viper, but tag some of that exotic ass, WHAM, you got Z06
People wanted a small, low price roadster with good looks and good performance, WHAM Solsitce AND Sky
European sports sedans, STS-V and CTS-V
I dont belive that GM would mess this up. GM understands what Camaro needs to be. They understand the mistakes they made with the 4th gen, and they know what needs to be done to blow away the Mustang. It needs to come with big style, great handling, and even better performance. It also needs to hit several markets from V6 to V8. A V6 model shouldtn be something you settle for, it should be something you want to drive. A V6 should be just as much fun to drive as a V8.
GM can get performance down, I have no doubt in my mind. They did it for 35 years with Camaro, I dont think they would stop now.

Now, are they gunna build it, hell yes they are. Its on every main ISP page I see, AOL, Yahoo, it was on my AIM main screen, this car is every where. There has been massive push for this car from us and from inside GM. They have wanted this car for a long time, but there was so much legal and political crap that got in the way. I cant wait for Scott Settlmires book to come out, cause I would love to hear the stories and the inner struggle of not only the 5th gen, but the end of the 4th gen.
And for thoes who say it wont be out till 2009 or 2010, you will be surprised. I would be amazed if this car didnt get a green light a day after the public release. I cant wait for the car rags to start putting them on ALL of the magazine covers, cause you know that all of March's mags are gunna have a big sexy silver Camaro on the front page, and right under it,
GM: BUILD THIS CAR!!

[LS1Hawk]

Well said, Al. I truly believe that GM is going to put this car on the fast track and get it out much sooner than 2010. Why make the public wait 4 years? If they want it now, give it to them. You run the chance of interest in the car dying if you wait too long, and then you're back to where you started. They got the GTO out within 18 months from when they said there'd be a new one. Granted, they already had the car in Australia. But if they want it out early, they can do it. I didn't know Settlemire was writing a book. Know the title?

[BigAls87Z28]

Ahaha, well it isnt official, but we all rag on him that he should. He always talks about these stories and things about what he wanted for the 4th gen and the stuff he did to get Camaro stuck in everyones heads, and just to hear the inside aspect of it all, I would deffinatly buy a few copies. It should be an RPO Code: SS1, SS2 if you want it signed!!
Anyway, GTO is different, but not too different. GTO had to go through some moddifications so that it could be sold here. Gas tank placment being a big one.
I belive that chassis work is much farther along then many think. Most car rags think that they are just NOW working on getting this car here when in fact they have been working on the chassis for some time. Its now down to getting the chassis light enough so that it wont destroy CAFE, and make the car the best.

[LS1Hawk]

If they can build the GTO in the US, that would really open up the market for the car. And when the Camaro comes out, you could be talking Pontiac and Chevy owning that segment of performance cars. The Camaro could be the car makes GM "GM" again.

[V]

i sorta hope they dont make it, mainly beacuse by the time it comes out, ill most likely have a mortage to deal with and not able to afford a new car payment every month as well... and if it does get made, maybe i'll buy a 2010 model used in like 2015 or so.

[BigAls87Z28]

So you want 100k people a year to suffer because you wont be able to afford it and a morgage? BAH!!

[turbo96z28]

after doin some reading....i'll back Al up with some of the inside info.

the chassis work is mostly done. Holden in Australia is doing some finally tuning and adjustments on it.

Ed Welburn said normal cars take up to 48 months, but the camaro is not a normal car for GM. what this means is GM is currently working at LUDACRIS SPEED to get this car out.

Camaro doesn't have to wait til any current model lines finish production. all they have to do is rip out the old stuff and put in the new.

the car is further along than any one thinks right now. i think all the 2009 talk is just to cover GMs ass should something happen.

my take, we might just see this car in the showroom in less than 2 years.

[V]

So you want 100k people a year to suffer because you wont be able to afford it and a morgage? BAH!!

yup, if i cant have it, no one can...lol, ah honestly, ill find a way to get one when they come out

[WayFast84]

They will make the camaro! no doubt...and they WILL junk the GTO for A TRANS AM eventually..

[NJSPEEDER]

the GTO is gone soon. it's demise is already planned, i think it is after the '07 model year, maybe '06, i forget.

GM has never denied that a firebird could possibly happen someday. they woudl have to find a way to prove that the pony car market is large enough to support two offerings from them though. if they think it will take too many sales away from the camaro they won't do it.
figure if they can sell 100k camaros a year, or 75k camaros + 75k firebirds it would make sense to have both. but if the sales would only be 70k camaros + 35k firebirds it just doesn't make any sense financially.

[Squirrel]

hopefully not...its ugly...go

[turbo96z28]

the GTO is gone soon. it's demise is already planned, i think it is after the '07 model year, maybe '06, i forget.

GM has never denied that a firebird could possibly happen someday. they woudl have to find a way to prove that the pony car market is large enough to support two offerings from them though. if they think it will take too many sales away from the camaro they won't do it.
figure if they can sell 100k camaros a year, or 75k camaros + 75k firebirds it would make sense to have both. but if the sales would only be 70k camaros + 35k firebirds it just doesn't make any sense financially.


it will only be gone for a short time.

the current GTO cannot pass upcoming federal standards, and the next gen GTO is not ready yet, so there will be a delay of approximatley 2 years.


the problem with 75K Camaros and 75K Firebirds is the extra budget needed to differentiate the 2 models. GMs business case for the Camaro is very strong, as is the case for the next gen GTO because there wil be a difference in size, style and features. the only thing the GTO and Camaro will share is the chassis, but at different wheelbases.

there is a chance we could see a Firebird comeback, but not likely til 2011 the earliest.

then again, you knows what GM might do at this point. we just have to see how fast the Camaro comes to market and what kind of sales it produces in its first year.

[NJSPEEDER]

which standards does the current GTO not meet?

[BigAls87Z28]

Crash tests, pretty much the reason why the GTO is not available in Canada.

The GTO will be part of the Pontiac line up. Quesiton is now is there really need for a sedan and a coupe, both RWD, for Pontiac, or can they combine the two?

[LS1Hawk]

The GTO will be part of the Pontiac line up. Quesiton is now is there really need for a sedan and a coupe, both RWD, for Pontiac, or can they combine the two?

Do what they did originally, offer three models: Tempest (sedan), LeMans (V6 or small-block V8 coupe), and GTO. Carry the same body style throughout, just modify it for each one. Sales of one model will benefit the life of the other models.

[NJSPEEDER]

or they could jsut offer more options on the GTO and save the marketing budget. the current GTO has only 3 options if i am not mistaken(color, transmission, and a factory scurity system) am i missing any?
if packages started with a base V8(LS3?) with a cloth interior, manual seats, and a few other things knocked off at a few thousand bucks less and let people build the car up to the LS2 with all the trimmings and maybe go a step further with a "Judge" package(GM re-copyrighted the judge stuff 2 or 3 years ago) with an LS7+special graffics+special aero kit/spoiler. maybe even make the judge package a limited edition deal and sell it for a premium

i think that would be a pretty cool way to do it. everyone gets to say they have a GTO, and some can say they have a fully optioned GTO

[BigAls87Z28]

Having a low-po GTO, what would be the point of a Camaro?
Pontiac doesnt need a full line up of cars anymore, now that they are combined with Buick and GMC. Whats the point of Buick and Pontiac both having large RWD cars in the same showroom unless there was something to seperate them, both visualy and performance wise. A quad coupe or a 4dr coupe could deffinatly bring Pontaic a sleek modern sports sedan, packing anywhere from 300 to 420hp, something to fight the Charger with, only not weight 5 tons.
Having a GTO coupe could work, but it would have to be V8 only. It wouldnt need to sell in such large numbers. GTO and G8 could be built at the Willmington plant, and sell under 200k units a year together, and that includes export for Oz and the Mid East.

[NJSPEEDER]

i was thinking with in the current pricign structure it coudl work. figure the camaro will base 22ish and be able to be optioned up to about 32ish. the current GTO starts at 33ish, drop that to 30 with a lot less features and let people option it up to 40ish.
it would give people who still want sporty V8 RWD but need more room an option.
i was also thinking that it woudl save bunches of marketing work by keeping the whole deal unde rone name plate. having a little bit lower base price to advertise woudl also draw more people into the showroom.

[BigAls87Z28]

Eh...dunno.
I dont like the idea of having two of the same coupes in the same market, just different names.
GTO needs offer more content for the money.
There is gunna be some overlap, you will have Camaro cover 20 to 35, GTO cover 35 to 40k and then there will be a CTS coupe that will start at 30 and go up to 43k.
GM needs to play the segments right.

[NJSPEEDER]

GM's best bet would be to study what BMW is doing. they have tons of model/pricing/available option overlap in their line up. yet they still some how manage to sell every model in very strong numbers and at a very high margain.

[BigAls87Z28]

Well, yes, but GM has several divisions fighting ove the same market segment, instead of having several models, excelling at what they do in each of the respective markets. While a 5, loaded might cost as much as a 7, they are clearly not the same car nor do they fight for teh same market. Same goes for 3 to 5.
Having a 3 sports coupes, all having anywere from 300 to 450hp, there will be a lot of trouble trying to seperate the 3.
More reason to have a quad coupe Pontiac.

[NJSPEEDER]

i was also refering to the overlap with in each series. you can start out with a basic 325 and option it well past the starting price of a 330 or M3. the overlap of the different lines is not very far apart on pricing either.