question???

[CrAsH]

is any1 else here pi**ed off that there plannin on bringin the camaro back and not the firebird or am i the only 1???i ask this because out of all the f-body fans i know not to many seem to care but my pref is to firebirds and the camaro was only invented because of the firebird so to me it just dont seem right??

[Tru2Chevy]

Umm, who told you that the Camaro was only brought out because of the Firebird? Camaro was sold first, and Camaro consistantly outsold Firebird.

- Justin

[CrAsH]

camaro came out first firebird was designed first and i know camaro sold more but there alot of both and mustangs sell a whole lot more does that mean its a better car???was on a thing about the history of the f-body the designer of the firebird was originally going after competition for the vet but gm said no.


Frank

[enRo]

Im with you, but in my eyes and probably many others, Chevy is mainly the "performance department" of GM now-adays, and Pontiac is the "female sports cars + grocery getters" (no offense Matt lmao). Its just like saying GMC being mainly Trucks and Suvs. It sucks the Firebird/TA is dead. Im sure some conversion company out there is gonna turn a few new Camaros into "Trans Ams" but other than that, Im with you. GM = teh suck

[enRo]

Umm, who told you that the Camaro was only brought out because of the Firebird? Camaro was sold first, and Camaro consistantly outsold Firebird.

- Justin

Didn't DeLorean invent the first ever F-body back in the early - mid 60's called "The Firebird" ?! :-D I watched the same show Crash did, and I do remember them saying DeLorean wanting to compete with the vette but it was a no go.

[Tru2Chevy]

I know that DeLorean wanted a pontiac vette fighter, and he called it the firebird. However the Camaro was developed in response to the Mustang, and the Firebird as we know it was given to Pontiac in place of the car that DeLorean wanted to build.

- Justin

[WayFast84]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/Wayfast84/53217225_pr.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/Wayfast84/53217127_pr.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/Wayfast84/53216844_pr.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/Wayfast84/53218602_pr.gif
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/Wayfast84/53218601_pr.gif

Thats the first firebird's I beleive harley earl desighned them in 1956. I could be wrong.
I am VERRY pissed, that gm is not bringing the firebird/ta back!! Basically thats the ONLY reason I do not like GTO's. and to noah, no offence takin HOW EVER if pontiac is the grocery getter/ women car, WTF IS WITH THE GTO?!?! thats not a grocery getter, and the best bang for the buck now!!!

[LS1Hawk]

Originally, DeLorean wanted a Pontiac two-seat roadster, i.e the Banshee concept. GM said no because it would take sales away from the Corvette. If you see pics of the 64 Banshee, they used some of the cues for that car on the 1st gen Firebird, e.g. the nose and front bumper treatment, and the tail lights. As for the new Camaro or Firebird arguement, I'm Pontiac all the way. But I can live with the Camaro, too.

[enRo]

[IMG]and to noah, no offence takin HOW EVER if pontiac is the grocery getter/ women car, WTF IS WITH THE GTO?!?! thats not a grocery getter, and the best bang for the buck now!!!

The new GTO has the performance of a monster, but the body-design of a 2door GXP aka grocery getter

[camaro2you]

The new GTO has the performance of a monster, but the body-design of a 2door GXP aka grocery getter

my thoughts exactly.

[Brando56894]

:stupid:

and yea im pissed too that the firebird is gone..... as i like them better then camaros :D

[qwikz28]

here we go... get over it no more firebird

[ar0ck]

here we go... get over it no more firebird


I think I hear the Wa-mbulence comming :lol:

[79CamaroDiva]

the only generation of firebird that i actually like better are late 4th gens (ls1 style). Other than that, i've always preferred camaros over firebirds. I'm not sure i'd want to see what they would do with another f-body, becuase obviously it would have to take cues from the camaro, and that seems like they pretty much nailed it.

[IROCdan330]

the 5th gen technically isnt an f-body anymore anyways. the camaro and the firebird are the exact same thing (now) besides a few cosmetic differences. i see some t/a cues in the new camaro as is, hence why it was so easy to make that bandit thing out of the new concept (i remember a pic floating around here)...

i think we should just be happy that theyre bringing one of them back...pontiac has got the gto, id say be happy with that, too. who knows what that thing will be like in '09 when the camaro comes back out.

[qwikz28]

I think I hear the Wa-mbulence comming :lol:
it pisses me off that people ask for the return of the firebird when Lutz pretty much has it tattooed to his forehead

[CrAsH]

yah but i want the goat and my firebirdslol im happy about the camaros i jus think its rong to have 1 not the other especially when they leave out my fav

[IROCdan330]

frank, it would be stupid to try and produce both of them.

if both exist, you can buy 25 camaros and 25 firebirds, then ford sells 50 mustangs...ford can brag about how the mustang outsells a camaro or firebird 2 to 1. however if only the camaro exists, then 50 of those sell to the 50 mustangs or whatever...and ford is defeated, which is the ultimate goal.

this is the same way ford advertises outselling chevy with trucks. yea, it may outsell chevy, but in no way do ford sales out-do GM. they can just advertise because yes, they do outsell chevy.

why build the camaro over the firebird? think about it, the firebird would have gotten a chevy engine along with all that other chevy stuff...might as well keep it a chevy instead of rebadging it.

[CrAsH]

yah but dan u know id prefer to start throughin pontiac engines back in them 455sd:drool: yano...

[Icemansghost]

GM is revamping thier production.....there is no need to make a duplicate of basically the same car........the need to have sales of 100,000 or more to keep the new camaro,were lucky they want to bring it back.............

[BonzoHansen]

the only generation of firebird that i actually like better are late 4th gens (ls1 style). Other than that, i've always preferred camaros over firebirds. I'm not sure i'd want to see what they would do with another f-body, becuase obviously it would have to take cues from the camaro, and that seems like they pretty much nailed it.

74-81 Firebirds are generally cooler than 74-81 Camaros, IMO. I'm torn on 3rd gens, but they ruined the f/b in the last 2 years with that aero nonsense. I like the nose of the 4th gen TA, but hate the tail lights/back.

[Tru2Chevy]

yah but dan u know id prefer to start throughin pontiac engines back in them 455sd:drool: yano...

There is no such thing as a Pontiac motor anymore. Everything is now just a GM motor.

- Justin

[WayFast84]

74-81 Firebirds are generally cooler than 74-81 Camaros, IMO. I'm torn on 3rd gens, but they ruined the f/b in the last 2 years with that aero nonsense. I like the nose of the 4th gen TA, but hate the tail lights/back.
Yeah, theirs different years and opinions. Like I can hate 82-84 camaros but love the birds. I hate 93-97 trans ams (but starting to like um) and love the 93-97 camaro. I think they all have their good aspects and bad aspects, Im hoping eventually their will be another trans am, maybe after this "imports are great" **** is finally done, but it doesnt matter any way, because I wont have the money to buy a brand new car untill Im outa school.

[Brando56894]

they ruined the f/b in the last 2 years with that aero nonsense. I like the nose of the 4th gen TA, but hate the tail lights/back.

im gonna have to totally disagree with you on that one. IMO i think the 98+ firebirds/formulas/TAs were the best looking firebirds outta the whole line. I'd take a 93-97 TA if one was given to me but i would much wrather have a 98+ TA, they just look soo much sexier

[camarokev]

lol, to me.... I was never a firebird fan. I HATED the rearend design on the 4thgens.... and camaro always seemed like it had more of a legend to the name.

But, my first performance car was the 95LT1 camaro and now the 98, and I'll always be partial to the camaro. But that's just me.

[Brando56894]

ehh the only 3rd gen i really like and would actually own is an IROC, i dont really like the 4th gen camaros that much and if i was gonna buy one id buy an LS1 SS as for the 1st and 2nd gens i dont know much about them. but the 4.5 gen firebird kick ass :D

[LS1Hawk]

im gonna have to totally disagree with you on that one. IMO i think the 98+ firebirds/formulas/TAs were the best looking firebirds outta the whole line. I'd take a 93-97 TA if one was given to me but i would much wrather have a 98+ TA, they just look soo much sexier

:werd:

I basically wanted a Trans Am all my life. And in '98 when they redesigned the 4th gen, I knew I had to have that car; much more aggressive looking and better lines. I was still in high school at the time so it had to wait till after I got out of college and started working. It took me a while to find one, and while I was searching I also looked at some Camaros, even came very close to buying a black '99 SS. But I could never go through with getting the Camaro because I knew I wouldn't be completely happy unless I had a Trans Am. So yeah, I'm with all the guys that want the T/A back naturally, but if all we can get for now is the Camaro I'm fine with that. And now that I have the Firehawk, I'd spring for a new Z28 when they come out. I would hope most Firebired/Trans Am lovers would do the same, because ultimately we want the car to be a success and we should all support its return.

[CrAsH]

thats true although i also say any1 who likes third gen camros should like 77-81 trans ams cuz thats what they took the front end off of..id proly by a new camro jus not ill after i have a ta or formula preferably 98+ or 73-

[Savage_Messiah]

The new GTO has the performance of a monster, but the body-design of a 2door GXP aka grocery getter

Yea, and how is that any different than what the GTO has always been?

[GP99GT]

noah is just mad cause pontiacs are sexier than catfish

[CrAsH]

:stupid: and im jus pi**ed with pontiac ingeneral even though here my fav comp. cuz not only are they not bringin back the firebird but there stoppin the gto all theyll have is the solstice and thats a 4cyl:(

[12secondv6]

Eh, gm is crap

[chevyt454]

I'm just glad they threw us a bone - a high performance car with a 6 speed tranny that is not a two seater or a mustang.

[CrAsH]

yah but why are they taking all the good cars away from pontiac... grand am firebird now gto again boneville made the grand prix stictly 4 door when it started as a 2 door.(and they got rid of the sunfire 2 but know1 really cares)

[LS1Hawk]

GTO is coming back in '08.

[Rob WS6]

I love when the guys come and say "no Firebird, get over it"... these are the same people who would be whining like little bitches if the Firebird was back and no Camaro. :lol:

Definatley sucks that the 'bird isnt coming back... was always a much better looking, higher optioned, classier car hands down. Really a shame, and I think its a mistake.

[Tsar]

Firebirds > camEros

[CrAsH]

firebird is poor mans vette: camaro is poor mans firebird:).will the gto b on the zeta form or the 1 its on now?

[NJSPEEDER]

the original "firebird" concept vehicle existed in the 50's. it was only an engineering/design excercise. it was not intended to be a production car in any way. it was an airplane inspired vehicle that didn't even have a V8 in it.
the only portion of the orignal that lived on is the small model on top of the trophy given out to the daytona 500 winner each year.
pontiac did have another concept vehicle that used the firebird name in the early 60's. the under pinnings were all vette on a revised chassis and with a 389inch experimental pontiac motor. it was a largely unrealistic car because of all that delorean designed into it. it would have outperformed the vette, but at nearly twice the price tag. there simply wasn't a market for it.
delorean and pontiac got on board with the f-body concept after the camaro had begun design. GM's use of unibody construction allowed for being somewhat modular in construction. this gave pontiac the opprtunity to drop their power plants into the platform and use their own styling department which was much mroe aggressive than the chevrolet guys at the time.
pontiac was much more in the "muscle car" spirit at teh begining. they had test mules with every engine and trans combo in their line up tested and ready to go before the first car ever even hit a dealership. they had the "big engine, little car" thing down to a science. :)

[LS1Hawk]

firebird is poor mans vette: camaro is poor mans firebird:).will the gto b on the zeta form or the 1 its on now?

GTO is probably going to be built on whatever the new Camaro is, which they're saying is the "zeta-light," or "-lite" platform.

[enRo]

noah is just mad cause pontiacs are sexier than catfish


Hey now... at least my catfish wasn't designed to drive children to soccer practice :gay: :finger:

[Tsar]

Hey now... at least my catfish wasn't designed to drive children to soccer practice :gay: :finger:
:rofl:

[CrAsH]

Hey now... at least my catfish wasn't designed to drive children to soccer practice :gay: :finger:
no but it was designed for grls:-P

[GP99GT]

2 door cars arent designed to drive kids to soccer practice last time i checked

[Tru2Chevy]

no but it was designed for grls:-P

No, Mustangs were designed for girls...

- Justin

[Brando56894]

:stupid:

majority of 6banger stangs are driven by chicks

[Tru2Chevy]

:stupid:

majority of 6banger stangs are driven by chicks

Not just the 6 bangers. I've seen an awful lot of girlie men driving GTs.

- Justin

[Brando56894]

oh god its spreading! :lol: atleast girls are getting smarter and atleast go for the ones that have a decent amout of power.....





or cuz they just look better (i think this is the one :lol: )

[Savage_Messiah]

:stupid:

majority of 6banger stangs are driven by chicks

I think you missed the point, the original mustang was designed/marketed for secretaries. Which at that point in time were all women. It was made for women from the get go.

[project89]

ive alkways liked the camaro better,ive owned both and prolly never own a nother trans am/firebird,but it is a shame that its not comming back with the camaro

[WayFast84]

OK WTF IS THIS BULL ****!
For all of you people backin the camaro with "gm only wants one vehicle so they can sell more" WTF they have the solstice,sky,solstice turbo,sky turbo,and they have that caddy one that looks the same... Its bull ****! gm better make a firebird t/a to or at least bring the gto back!

[WayFast84]

I love when the guys come and say "no Firebird, get over it"... these are the same people who would be whining like little bitches if the Firebird was back and no Camaro. :lol:

Definatley sucks that the 'bird isnt coming back... was always a much better looking, higher optioned, classier car hands down. Really a shame, and I think its a mistake.
I agree 100%!

[Savage_Messiah]

OK WTF IS THIS BULL ****!
For all of you people backin the camaro with "gm only wants one vehicle so they can sell more" WTF they have the solstice,sky,solstice turbo,sky turbo,and they have that caddy one that looks the same... Its bull ****! gm better make a firebird t/a to or at least bring the gto back!

It's a matter of how many units they can move, and what they get past the bean counters, thats the best reason for having only the camaro...

They are bringing the GTO back.

You curse a lot for a 14 year old. :lol:

[Firebirdgm2000]

http://img.myyearbook.com/zenhex/images/quiz13/63642/res1.jpg

need we say more

[Savage_Messiah]

Right... and they sold how many birds vs. how many camaros... need the market say more?

[Mike]

OK WTF IS THIS BULL ****!
For all of you people backin the camaro with "gm only wants one vehicle so they can sell more" WTF they have the solstice,sky,solstice turbo,sky turbo,and they have that caddy one that looks the same... Its bull ****! gm better make a firebird t/a to or at least bring the gto back!


umm thats only 2 cars you just listed different options....and the caddy market dosent count people buy it because of the badging.

the 4th gen platform itself has a lot to do with the loss in sales....the extreme low slung windshield and mile long dash and lack of visibility past the wipers kept a lot of non enthusiasts from buying them...add the big ole blind spots and trademark rattles, and you have a car thats still a cult favorite but the general public dosent want to spend hard earned money on just for transportation

[V]

no bird... deal. learn to like camaros:willy:

[Mike]

orrr just buy a soon to be classic 4th gen

[Brando56894]

all u suck1!!!1!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!111!!! the bird is commin back!!!

[WayFast84]

hey brando, wanna make a protest, like they did for the camaro?

[Brando56894]

hellz yea!

[95firebirdconvertible]

Yeah I'm pissed that the Firebird isn't coming back.

Firebirds > Camaros (Except the 3rd gen Camaros > 3rd gen Firebirds. Firebirds own Camaros 3:1)

[WayFast84]

hellz yea!
ight your the brains of this opperation :wink: :smile:

[qwikz28]

ight your the brains of this opperation :wink: :smile:
i see this protest having crappy results...

once again... why even complain if the firebird has less of a chance of coming back then kasey does of playing in the NBA?

[Savage_Messiah]

Wait... it makes so much sense guys... bring it back because maybe a couple thousand enthusiasts want it, yea that justifies the cost of production!!! :roll: [/sarcasm]

[Brando56894]

Yeah I'm pissed that the Firebird isn't coming back.

Firebirds > Camaros (Except the 3rd gen Camaros > 3rd gen Firebirds. Firebirds own Camaros 3:1)

i totally agree firebird FTW!

[Savage_Messiah]

You knwo how the screen at the auto show said "A legend never dies"??? Well, the firebird ain't no legend suckas :D

[WayFast84]

You knwo how the screen at the auto show said "A legend never dies"??? Well, the firebird ain't no legend suckas :DUR right its a dynasty! :!:

[oh one ls1 SS]

You knwo how the screen at the auto show said "A legend never dies"??? Well, the firebird ain't no legend suckas :D


firebird = :owned: lol

[BigAls87Z28]

It wont be an Fbody, so there is no need to have twins on the fbody.
Camaro has much more mass appeal then Firebird does. When was the last tiem you saw a 69 Trans Am go for 1/4 mill? And those bitches are rare!
Pontiac IS the #1 female car in America, for whatever reason. Maybe its the goofy cladding, but numbers dont lie.
A Firebird will eat up development dollars from Camaro, as well as advertising and overall sales.

And as for the young one's comments about Caddy looking the same, they are all Cadilacs...what do you expect them to look like?

[LS1Hawk]

umm thats only 2 cars you just listed different options....and the caddy market dosent count people buy it because of the badging.

the 4th gen platform itself has a lot to do with the loss in sales....the extreme low slung windshield and mile long dash and lack of visibility past the wipers kept a lot of non enthusiasts from buying them...add the big ole blind spots and trademark rattles, and you have a car thats still a cult favorite but the general public dosent want to spend hard earned money on just for transportation

Tell me about it. Last weekend I took my Firehawk to the drive-up window at the bank. One of the bays were closed and they put two cones infront to block it off. I drove right over them...totally could not see them :lol:

[Tsar]

who needs to see up front anyway? :lol: