surprise!

[jims69camaro]

good news: i can log in on the public library computer. (home computer bit the big one)

bad news: car won't start.

car is getting fuel. i've tried dumping it in the carb, starter fluid and setting and not setting the electric choke. i am not sure what type of distributor it has, i can't find a coil or an electronic control box outside of the distributor (like an MSD 6 al or the like), cap appears in good shape (no cracks) so i am stumped as to why it wouldn't be getting spark. all of the plugs are clean, took out each and inspected and cleaned them up with a wire brush. all of the wires appear to be intact, as do all of the ends.

cops -n- rodders is in ten days. any help would be greatly appreciated. i'll check back in two days or so. never did get a call from a certain someone...

take care all,
-jim

[Untamed]

Wow, was wondering where you disappeared to. Welcome back.
Sorry to hear about that car - I can sympathize.

[trashman01]

pull the cap and make sure the rotor isnt zap thru and the spark isnt just ground out. also what year car? maybe it has HEI big or small cap?

[Tru2Chevy]

I'm assuming that he is talking about his '69. Should have a normal large cap HEI if I'm not mistaken.

- Justin

[Ian]

I just want to get this straight for my own understanding.

There is fuel coming out of the jets in the carb, but you poured fuel down the carb? If it was getting fuel, you shouldnt have to dump gas in there. Anywho... Check for spark at the plug. If no spark and you have HEI, my guess would be the ignition module in the distributor. The coil really shouldn't go bad, but it never hurts to check if there is power going to it and coming out of it.

Now, if it sounds like its trying to kick over and backfires a few times, the timing is off. I dont know the background on your motor, but it really shouldnt jump time from sitting around.

Pretty much, if your carb is working you're getting fuel and air. the only thing you need for combustion is spark. If you have spark and it still doesnt start, then the timing is off. Or maybe your starter isnt spinning fast enough. that could also be an electrical problem like low cranking amps in the battery or dirty/corroded cables going to the starter. even a bad ground would cause that.


I hope this gives you a few ideas of what it might be. good luck getter her started, I'd hate for you to miss the show :)

[Tru2Chevy]

If he's talking about the '69, I'm pretty sure it has a mostly (or entirely) stock 307 in it.

- Justin

[JL8Jeff]

If it's stock it should have a separate coil and distributor. I can't remember, but he might have an HEI distributor on it which might mean the coil is in the cap.

[bad64chevelle]

yeah thats what it should be if its all original. however it may have been swapped over at some point.

[Ian]

for reliabilities sake, I would hope it was converted to HEI

[jims69camaro]

since i don't see an external coil, i'd have to guess it's an HEI. sure wish it wasn't, as it would be easier for me (the dinosaur that i am) to diagnose. anyways, i am going to start this morning from the battery and work my way through the ignition system.

the carb has been rebuilt twice. once by me, once by a professional. the pro said i goofed by not extenting the power plunger (big blue thing) like it should have been, but i really think since i didn't soak the entire unit in parts cleaner i might have contaminated it partially or totally while rebuilding it. remember, i stripped it down a second time and still couldn't find anything wrong with it...

the reason for dumping gas into the carb was to rule out the "not getting fuel" part from the equation. since it's getting air and fuel, the only thing left is spark. and timing, but, like stated, timing does not jump around by sitting in the driveway. since the last time i had it out it ran like a champ, i can only guess it's got to be electrical in nature, and those electrical gremlins can be the worst.

wish me luck. nothing like waiting until the last minute to get started, either. i'll be there whether in the '69 or in the wife's jeep. i think i'd rather have a picture of the '69 on the plaque, though...

p.s. in the future, the '87 is so far from running as to not be included in any thought of any discussion, let alone be included in any discussion. while i would like to get started on it this year, there is a certain lack of fundage... not to mention i wouldn't even think of starting to work on it by myself. can someone say "disassembly party"? i knew that you could. pizza and beer are tremendous temptations.

take care all.
-jim

[Tru2Chevy]

Best of luck getting it fired up Jim.

Give us a shout when you wanna pull apart the '87. I'm good at that. Now if only I could get mine back together....

- Justin

[turbo96z28]

so you're admiting you suck at the assembly mod?

[Koll]

If its getting fuel, air, spark and is not computer controlled of ANY kind, i can get it running.

[jims69camaro]

pertronix sells an upgrade kit for HEI distributors including coil for around $150, so how bad could it hurt to replace everything under the cap? that's the plan now. i tried gapping the points, but it appears that they are not adjustable. one of the guys i talked to reminded me about the matchbook trick, but that didn't work.

i did realize that one of the hold-downs was not engaged, but that wouldn't have affected it... well, maybe over time. the rim was covered in a greasy substance, so i cleaned it off, cleaned up all of the plugs, basically ran the entire ignition system. it's got to be a gremlin under the cap. unfortunately, money's very tight this month, but the attorney said we could be done in the middle of june. sure would be nice to be able to do something with these cars other than look at them in the driveway... (sucks to be po')

take care, all
-jim

[jims69camaro]

If its getting fuel, air, spark and is not computer controlled of ANY kind, i can get it running.

so? get it running.

i replaced the top half of the distributor, including the coil under the cap, with MSD's ultimate HEI kit. it still won't start. i do see something that looks suspect, but until i check it out, i am keeping quiet about it. if it ends up being this thing, i will want to tear the **** outta something because of all of the cruise time lost this year for something this stupid.

[BigAls87Z28]

Hey Jim, sucks to see that you are still having a problem.
I deffinatly would have just done a basic tune up kit on the dizzy. Did you check or replace the ignition module? I dont know what comes in that MSD HEI kit, I assume a new module. Check connections, have the battery tested at any autoparts store, that should take care of the flow of juice problem.

[jims69camaro]

indeed. the HEI is now digital.

i am going to get new wires and plugs. there is still a few pieces of wire that i think are suspect, like the one that goes from the battery to the distributor, but i have yet to find a supplier that can give me the gauge and quality i am looking for (advance auto, napa, and the local machinist are out).

i am still looking for any input, tho. speak up if you've got any ideas.

[JL8Jeff]

One thing that comes to mind is that I think the stock wire to the distributor is a resistance wire that has a section in it that acts as a resistor. When converting to HEI, I think that resistance section needs to be removed. Maybe yours had a meltdown. Have you verified the power getting to the distributor?

[BonzoHansen]

If it does have a resistor wire, you can use a relay. The lower voltage from the resistor wire is more than enough to trip a relay.

[jims69camaro]

interesting. here i am thinking i am adding parts to solve the problem, yet i may be making it worse?

jeff, the wire from the battery to the distributor may be special, but it has a section crimped into it. i don't get that, and that is why i suspect that wire may prove part of the problem.

no, i have not verified spark after installing the MSD distributor parts. since the problem has not been fixed, i just assumed that i haven't found the problem yet.

[jims69camaro]

after talking with my mechanic, he seems to think it's not getting any spark at all. so, once i get up enough strength to get out under the hood, that is the first thing i will check. new plugs and wires won't hurt anything, either, so i am going to go ahead and order them.

thanks for all of the input, guys. by hook or crook, i will get this beast running again.

[jims69camaro]

pulling a spark plug, grounding it on the body and cranking the starter produced zero spark. any ideas, guys?

it might be that suspect wire that i mentioned above. if not, then what? i'm in over my head when it comes to troubleshooting stuff. if it can't be solved by swapping parts out... i'm dead in the water. any help, as usual, is appreciated.

[BigAls87Z28]

Try replacing the wire, or due a tune up (wires, cap and rotor) and see if that works?
Is it an HEI or Points dizzy?
And Jim, thanks for the phone call about the tires. I wanted to know If you could do something for me.

[jims69camaro]

all you have to do is ask, al.

did the distributor, changed over to MSD digital HEI kit (digital PCB with rev-limiter, new rotor, new cap, new coil). wires will be next. i don't have an acceptable substitute for the wire running from the battery to the distributor, otherwise i would have already replaced it. damn.

[jims69camaro]

just for ****s and giggles, does anyone know if i need a box to run this distributor?

[jims69camaro]

turns out the answer is no. i ran another wire in place of what i suspectected was a bad wire. it still didn't start.

i have borrowed a test light and i will be checking for loose/bad connections today or tomorrow, and will report back in a week or so. wish me luck.

[Tru2Chevy]

Good luck Jim!

You gotta try to get that car back on the road before the cruising season is finished for the year....

- Justin

[JL8Jeff]

Jim, I just picked up a new cap, rotor and coil for the HEI on my L78 car. Your welcome to grab the old stuff to swap parts if you want to see if one of those components is the culprit. I suspect you have a shorted out wire or blew a fuse somewhere. You should be able to check the power lead going to the distributor and see if it's even getting voltage when you turn the key.

[BonzoHansen]

Throw the test light aside and get a multimeter. Let's see if you have 12 volts at the distrbutor. If yes, work forward (dist), if not, work backwards, (ign switch, etc.). I don't know the MSD parts you are working with.

Which car is this? The 69?

[jims69camaro]

Throw the test light aside and get a multimeter. Let's see if you have 12 volts at the distrbutor. If yes, work forward (dist), if not, work backwards, (ign switch, etc.). I don't know the MSD parts you are working with.

Which car is this? The 69?

you know, i went to autozone and looked at their multimeters (test lights are in the same aisle). i was || that close to buying one, knowing they have the potential to become a decent tool if used correctly and on more than just cars. i still might get one, although i think i can get one for less than $20 on eBay or something. wish i had a computer at home instead of having to keep trekking to the library everytime i need something.

there is nothing wrong with the MSD parts, the rep said they should work on any car that has HEI (which the '69 did). the 6AL will complement the digital distributor parts, as will their billet shaft, but neither is necessary for the distributor to work as is.

the solution is probably staring me in the face and i just can't see it...

and i will rock this car as soon as i get her fixed, whether it's september or january. :)