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View Full Version : Please no Spectator Voting!! I beg you!


fattymcformula
05-26-2006, 11:49 AM
Me and Cj were discussing this at the Mine hill car show that this voting is rediculous basically this means if you bring the most friends you win.....how is this fair....the car show last year wasn't that big and all you need is ONE judge! Get one judge pay him like 100$ and have him judge cleanliness mods ETC.

If this judging system continues dont expect to have this show be very long lasting and popular!

Just hire a JUDGE!!!

Untamed
05-26-2006, 12:24 PM
Yeah I suppose it isn't concours judging so you don't need someone who knows everything about firebirds and camaros. However, keeping the cost factor down, its easier and perhaps more fun, allowing the public to cast their votes. I don't think there are many people who bring friends just to skew the voting. *shrugs*

fattymcformula
05-26-2006, 12:48 PM
Yeah I suppose it isn't concours judging so you don't need someone who knows everything about firebirds and camaros. However, keeping the cost factor down, its easier and perhaps more fun, allowing the public to cast their votes. I don't think there are many people who bring friends just to skew the voting. *shrugs*


i beg to differ the proof of it was the orange 4th gen that won cuz he brought all his friends

Savage_Messiah
05-26-2006, 01:40 PM
1) it's just a car show, who cares?

2) you gonna front the money to pay for a judge? Have you bought a shirt or donated or anything, even? Would you compete if all the show cars had to pay an extra fee to help pay the judge?

Tsar
05-26-2006, 01:47 PM
1) it's just a car show, who cares?

2) you gonna front the money to pay for a judge? Have you bought a shirt or donated or anything, even? Would you compete if all the show cars had to pay an extra fee to help pay the judge?
:werd: i think most people on this site care about racing then silly trophies.

Tru2Chevy
05-26-2006, 05:08 PM
i beg to differ the proof of it was the orange 4th gen that won cuz he brought all his friends

If you are talking about the Sunset Orange Metalic Camaro with chrome TT2s, I would say he won because he has a clean, simple, tasteful car - and pretty much everyone loves that color. I voted for his car, and I didn't formally meet him until several months after the East Coast Nats last year.

We have no plans to pay someone to come judge our car show.

- Justin

90FormulaWS6
05-26-2006, 05:29 PM
enabling participation from the crowd helps in making it a more fan friendly event, everyone gets to see everyone elses cars so i think having a crowd vote is better

NJSPEEDER
05-26-2006, 05:49 PM
i beg to differ the proof of it was the orange 4th gen that won cuz he brought all his friends

that is a ridiculous statement. many of the cars that received high numbers of votes belong to members who are not known to a great number in ht eclub. best example, the best engine award went to pamperedz. i would bet that there aren't more than 20 guys on this board that know who he is and he ran away with it. he brought 3 or 4 peoplefrom his home crew in central pa with him, and that certainly wasn't enough votes to carry away the prize.

and what happens when someone doesn't agree with the opinions of a "professional" judge?
the result is the same, disappointed car show participants because someones opinion won't match with the "expert".

we try to base our events on the people who attend and participate in the activities. this makes attendee voting part of teh cornerstone of how the shows are run. it is the people that make the show a success, so it shoudl be the people that pick the winners.

GP99GT
05-26-2006, 07:48 PM
fatty...didnt you win best wheels? omfg you brought the most friends! hax

WayFast84
05-26-2006, 09:20 PM
ill judge for free!! my car wont be their, or it might but It will not be raced or in the show.

edit:

and I wouldnt win any way, I dont have any freinds!

BigAls87Z28
05-26-2006, 10:03 PM
Actualy, James (the guy with the SOM SS) was still very very new to the site, and only I was the only person who knew him there.
He had his gf and a friend of his, that is it.
Stop trying to make excuses for your sorry ass car.

NJSPEEDER
05-26-2006, 10:57 PM
fatty actually ran away with the best wheels prize last year. the next closest person had less than half as many votes.

j0n
05-26-2006, 11:53 PM
Stop trying to make excuses for your sorry ass car.

:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

yo yo yo i got lyke fo' tvs fo' eech passenger bro!!!! mah **** is mad tyteeee nig!!!

NJSPEEDER
05-27-2006, 01:51 AM
please avoid personal attacks and keep it on topic gang.

enRo
05-27-2006, 10:35 AM
This is a good topic. I agree and also disagree to an extent. It makes sense to have the public vote for their favorites, because thats what this site is based upon, correct? But it would also make sense to have a judge. Im not saying we should go all out and pay for a judge, but I think it would be a great idea to have one, but have some People's Choice awards, this way everybody is happy. I dunno if I'll be showing or racing, but I'd think that would be fair. If it cost's $100 for a judge per day, then everyone can pitch in $2 at the gate... but this is me talking, just my 2 cents. Cant wait til August! :-D

WayFast84
05-27-2006, 11:40 AM
wayfast=free judge
palease!?

Savage_Messiah
05-27-2006, 11:52 AM
:ban:

84HOtransam
05-27-2006, 02:43 PM
i would rather win a car show by a hundred car people voting for me rather than one pro judge...

NJSPEEDER
05-27-2006, 11:55 PM
wayfast=free judge
palease!?

you and everyone else is too. that is what specatator voting is.

Ian
05-28-2006, 02:17 AM
I know that if one of my friends on here entered the car show and there was another car in the same class that was better, I'd vote for the better car. its not about seeing your friends win trophies (although that would be nice), its about rewarding people's good taste and hard work.

qwikz28
05-29-2006, 03:09 AM
i say we vote on whether we vote or not...

ok and group voting > one person and group voting is mad free so i think we have a winner

HardcoreZ28
05-29-2006, 09:54 PM
Ok here's my input on the subject. A single judge or group of judges should be utilized for the 1-3 awards in each category for sure. The "Best" awards for things such as chrome, engine bay, paint, interior, etc can be either done by spectator voting or the judges (I'd prefer judges). There should be one trophy for People's Choice that is awarded. I've been to more than my fair share of car shows and this usually seems to be the method that keeps most entrants happy.
While the majority of the people on this board are focused on racing, there are those of us who are very serious about the appearance of our cars and expect our part of the competition to be treated just as seriously. For some of us, our business depends on it. ;)

90FormulaWS6
05-30-2006, 02:31 AM
For some of us, our business depends on it. ;)

PSHHHH LIKE WHO?

HardcoreZ28
05-30-2006, 07:34 AM
PSHHHH LIKE WHO?


Ummm....Like me

WayFast84
05-30-2006, 08:10 AM
Hardcorez28 is correct thats how 99 percent of car shows are put together, and ive never ever heard any one complain about it, except for adam(about his wheels)

90FormulaWS6
05-30-2006, 11:51 AM
Ummm....Like me

LOL hows PT?

HardcoreZ28
05-30-2006, 12:10 PM
LOL hows PT?


Leaving thursday morning so I can't tell you yet. But if it's anything like I'm imagining then I might just not come back hahaha. I've been reading the Power Tour message boards and talking to a few locals who have gone in the past and it sounds like it will be a blast. I'll be sure to give everyone a synopsis as well as post pics when I get back.

JL8Jeff
05-31-2006, 10:35 AM
The problem with having actual judges is that you need well defined rules for each category. Even then, it still comes down to the judges personal preference to what they like. Fan judging works well for this kind of a show.

HardcoreZ28
05-31-2006, 12:21 PM
The problem with having actual judges is that you need well defined rules for each category. Even then, it still comes down to the judges personal preference to what they like. Fan judging works well for this kind of a show.


I still disagree. I say get a group of 3-4 judges. Maybe get someone who's familiar with each generation to judge the whole class. I'd be willing to judge if you guys want. Just have someone else judge my class...I'll do any others. Maybe Justin, Tim, PamperedZ, and I can make up the judging team?

Pampered-Z
05-31-2006, 12:44 PM
Well this year I will be on the track kicking butt ( NJSlowPoke - you READING THIS???)

But if I was in the show I like the idea of all the people being able to vote for what they like. The problem with one set judge is that they will need to be given an established criteria. Even with that it is easy to define Stock/Restored cars, but anything custom is simply a matter of the owner's style, and how someone else reacts to it.

I know the one guy from DE looked at my car ( which I bought used in 1994 ) and looked at me and said " Do you realize your build date is so low this might be one of the first M6 cars ever built and be real collectable?" So maybe in his mine I killed a great car with all my mods. Other people commented on the nice work I did. Same car, very different reaction!

If you want set judges, here is a suggestion: We did this with the CJCFO in past shows and I think it is a valid thing to discuss:

The winners of the previous year became the judges. One year Injuneer and I won, so we became the judges for the following year. This way we had set judges as well as no repeat winners every year, now we can set this so the person could win another class and Best Of Show could still be awarded to the person? Maybe last years judges could be called upon to vote for the best of what they won, and leave best of show/best of Gen to the spectators.

My point of view,,,John B.

The BIG Show
06-22-2006, 01:02 PM
You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

C'mon guys. It's not that big of a deal. No one ever made a career out of winning two-dolla trophies. It's all about egos. A crowd favorite is the best way to go. It makes the most mathematical sense. The percentages are the most fair. If you're looking for professional judges, go to professional shows, not car club shows. But if not, I would be the best judge. I've done it before, my car is 3500 miles away, I have nothing to gain or prove, and I just don't care who wins, loses, lives or dies. :fireguns: Ask the NJCFO guys that go to C&R on a yearly basis. Cars just get you from one place to another. I drive a p.o.s that my neighbor gave me for free. It has four wheels, gets me where I need to go, has tunes, good a/c, it's comfortable, and no one looks at it twice...perfect. Just how I like it.

The bottom line is that if you don't like how it's run, don't go. :cry:

Fozzi58
06-27-2006, 11:17 AM
there are those of us who are very serious about the appearance of our cars and expect our part of the competition to be treated just as seriously.

PSHHHH LIKE WHO?

Ummm....Like me

Like me.

I respect the racers and their seriousness to the competition. However, I'm not a racer - I'm a show guy. But like the racers, I expect the same type of seriousness to the show judging as racers expect to track conditions, etc.

I'm somewhat indifferent on the judged/people's choice thing. I've been to enough shows to know that most "judged" shows are biased against new or modern cars. If its open class judging, its almost always "nastalgia" that wins. And its not about $2 trophies, its about pride in your ride. When you're told 100s of times at a show, "Nice ride", and you leave empty handed, it makes you wonder what the judges were thinking. I, as many of us, put a lot of thought, time, work, and last but not least, money into our cars. A measly plastic trophy or plaque makes the effort all worth while.

I was fortunate enough to pick up 3rd place 4th gen last year and that at least lets me know someone besides the crew I was there with voted for my car (I hope).

HardcoreZ28
06-29-2006, 01:34 PM
I'm in total agreement with Fozzi.....still torn between spectator vs judged voting but he's dead on about the seriousness. I think the problem with spectator voting at a show like ours is the number of people in attendance. Like mentioned earlier if you have a large group of friends with you then you're at an advantage. At a larger show such as E-Town or something similar then the friend factor is diluted a bit more.

Either way you know I'll be there showing because when it all comes down to it it's about the cars and the comroderie....oh and the advertising

Fozzi58
06-29-2006, 02:04 PM
oh and the advertising


LOL

zoomin iroc
07-11-2006, 12:51 AM
I'm all for spectator voting, It gives people in attendance a reason to feel involved. It also causes people to pay closer attention to your car, ask questions and enjoy the hobby without the expense of actually buying and building a car. It may spark a person's interest enough to get them to join in the hobby.

On the other hand, The idea of a panel of judges made up from past winners is interesting. Why not have both? The judges would not judge every class, Just a few special ones. -Call it "Gold Seal Award" or "Judges choice" or perhaps the "I'm better than you as judged buy people that actually matter award" Anyway, the trophies are only a few bucks each so why not? I for one would be very proud to receive a "Judges think I rock trophy"

Plus it shows respect or "Gives props" (If you watch too much MTV) to those who have won before. Past winners more than anyone know what goes into creating a car worthy of a "Best Whatever Trophy" It is right to honor those individuals who haved walked the walk. It's kinda like a gift that keeps on giving. Sorta like the clap except that it doesn't burn like Hell-fire when you piss. Just my thoughts.....

NJSPEEDER
07-11-2006, 03:01 PM
a panel of past winners leads back to the "that guy is friends with....." or claims of people just picking their own cars again.

zoomin iroc
07-11-2006, 04:58 PM
"Picking their own cars" really? You can't be serious.

NJSPEEDER
07-11-2006, 05:11 PM
it is just one of the many great stories i have heard used to place the blame on judges for the way a show turned out.

zoomin iroc
07-11-2006, 05:22 PM
Un freakin' believable !!! Isn't Corvettes at Carlisle the same weekend?

97transam
07-11-2006, 06:35 PM
...the best engine award went to pamperedz.
NO WAY!!!! That's it, this is war!!!

Well this year I will be on the track kicking butt You better. :mrgreen: ..and you owe me a rematch. I'll have a few "secrets" under the hood making me quicker so you won't fall asleep and roll the car into a red light while you were waiting 3.7 minutes for your green light.


My take on the judging / people's vote: if there's a judge I might have a slim chance, but if it's people's choice... I'm on the track. I come to the realization a long time ago that the 97 TA is nothing "special" to people at a standing car show. It has won a few car show trophies and a couple of plaques, but I haven't spent that kind of money and time to make it outstanding amongst a dozen of it's bretheren. Plus it was frustrating and tiring to compete with a daily ride with well over 50K miles against trailer queens. So I personally found myself going the dark way of spending money to make the car more fun for 13 seconds. (Tim warned me about this at Atco).

Com'on people, watch biker build off or like shows, these guys bring dream machines to an event and the people choose the winner. No judges. Some people like bling bling, some like the classic lines. Oh well and good luck.

Btw, I'll vote for you if it's black and clean... I don't do bright colors or bling :kneeslap: