View Full Version : Engine swapping where to go 4th gen
Firebirdgm2000
05-30-2006, 01:21 AM
I'm trying to weigh my options, i'm still going to use my car for daily driving just simply put i'm looking into a 400-800hp range motor. Although it's a little tough trying to figure out which route I should take.... I could go with a straight up LS1 Bore it to a 405 which could be quite cost effective... Buy a LS2 (A little more pricy) and work it up or go for either an iron 455, 428 or 400 pontiac motor (since it's a pontiac). I'm hearing good stories about 400's they are still cheap and there are several stroker kits available for them..... If I go LS1-(2) i'm def. turbo'ing it (twin or single stage turbo kit)..fuel injected or carb'ed?.... opinions ideas would be greatly appreciated......
Tru2Chevy
05-30-2006, 01:27 PM
400-800 hp is a pretty damn big range.
Instead of asking for specific power numbers, you should decide what your goals are for how the car performs, and we can give you advice on how to get there....
Personally, a single turbo LS2 would be loads of fun, and pretty damn fast.
- Justin
foff667
05-30-2006, 08:36 PM
are you going to swap on the hydrogen injection system to save you some gas on this carbed/turboed 455 your building :rofl:
Firebirdgm2000
05-30-2006, 09:40 PM
yes
are you going to swap on the hydrogen injection system to save you some gas on this carbed/turboed 455 your building :rofl:
Savage_Messiah
05-31-2006, 02:11 AM
You're saying that the swap would be cheap, but you realize you need more than the engine / it won't simply drop in in place of your v6 right?
Firebirdgm2000
05-31-2006, 02:22 AM
I've researched all the necessary components and operations behind the swap... Yes I understand the engine is not the only component needed for this. I will operate it utilizing the GM M6 tranny and thunder racing rack & pinion steering chromemoly. I have the complete setup for suspension V6/V8 interchangable springs excluding harness, radiator obvious components... I've done my homework and i've saved the cash got the tools need to get started
You're saying that the swap would be cheap, but you realize you need more than the engine / it won't simply drop in in place of your v6 right?
Savage_Messiah
05-31-2006, 02:25 AM
dont forget k-member, computer, driveshaft if you still have a 2 piece, you'll wanna work on your rear if you still have 3.08s or any pussy gears like that, bunch of other things... it gets pricey.
carb would require cutting the cowl and making custom glass..........have fun
your hydrogen toy would take you from 5mpg to 7mpg with that motor
Ive never seen an LS2 in an 4th gen Fbody yet (If so, supply a link so I can see please) ... would be pretty neat, but the price that your talking to bore an LS1 or turbo an LS2, you mind as well just buy an LS7 and cam it.
foff667
05-31-2006, 09:07 PM
cammed ls7 would run about $18000 installed. People have been swapping in LS2's into fbodys for the last couple of years...i know mikey@rapid has done a bunch of those swaps as well as many of the other local/semilocal shops.
Firebirdgm2000
05-31-2006, 09:29 PM
I'm def interested in getting a 6L in there i'd like to see the setup.... To quote savage i've changed out my old 3.08's with an entire rear from Fparts came directly off a TA, also I have the aluminum driveshaft, crossmember i'm going to buy off ThunderRacing
If you plan on swapping in an LS1, you'd be better off just selling your car and buying a T/A or Formula. I pray you dont put an old school pontiac motor in there, that will be a nightmare trying to get everything to work and fit properly. If you're gonna drive it everyday, I say sell your car and get an LS1 car. they get decent gas mileage, plenty of power and you wouldnt have to butcher up a clean 6 banger car to do it.
let me just add... wiring harness, ecm, possibly bcm, and dash harness as well, maybe even a v8 gauge cluster too.
I agree with Ian, sell your car and just BUY an LS1 car.
just so you realize, even doing a basic stock LS1 swap, you are looking at a cost of at least $8k IF you do it ALL yourself, and 10+k if you have a shop do it. You can just buy a nice Z28 or T/A in that range and then youll have money back in your pocket from the sale of the firechicken. IMHO, dont waste the time, money, or effort on swapping a v8 in the car.
Savage_Messiah
06-02-2006, 12:01 AM
its more liek 6k to 8k but still, same deal... the only real good reason to swap is from personal attachment to the car, or enough mods already that will remain to justify it.
GP99GT
06-02-2006, 09:56 AM
just buy an LS1 TA...just think of all the money youll save on badges
Savage_Messiah
06-02-2006, 10:24 AM
:funny:
Firebirdgm2000
06-02-2006, 10:35 PM
I've got a shop in south carolina who has done this swap before will do it for 6k all components included (*has done 8 tranformations before), motor / tranny, 6-speed convert, crossmember, radiator and all necessary components.... By the way you guys forget i've got v6 insurance, so I would be putting that extra 1.5k in my pocket every year instead of owning a base TA which I have completely dismissed a while ago
If you plan on swapping in an LS1, you'd be better off just selling your car and buying a T/A or Formula. I pray you dont put an old school pontiac motor in there, that will be a nightmare trying to get everything to work and fit properly. If you're gonna drive it everyday, I say sell your car and get an LS1 car. they get decent gas mileage, plenty of power and you wouldnt have to butcher up a clean 6 banger car to do it.
GP99GT
06-03-2006, 12:10 AM
too bad youve been spending that extra 1.5k on stuff that really isnt worth it/you already wouldve had if you bought a T/A
6k for a full swap labor included...interesting. must be drivetrains straight out of the junkyard. Just a decent ls1/t56 combo is around 4k. and you said a thunder racing k member so thats a few hundred more(even though a stocker would be fine), then i assume youd put a new clutch, thats another 4-500. used rad? no, i would only put new, thats a couple hundred more.. then all the little stuff that adds up and basically that leaves not much for labor. i dunno, just doesnt seem that great of an option in SC...
bad64chevelle
06-03-2006, 01:56 PM
First off shoe horning an old school poncho motor in there would be VERY VERY interesting. I would hope you had all the tools to make that work since your going to need to make new inner fenders, shock towers, and possibly/most likely a new firewall. And if you plan on running 400+ horses and keep the 10 bolt trans am rear and you dont think your going to blow it, youre in for some fun times very soon! If you think you can daily drive a 600 horse car youre in for more fun times. I dont know how much experience you have doing things but swapping engine/trans/kmembers etc etc isnt like oil changes. If you have a shop that will do this and you have the money to pony up then go for it! Only things I can say is make sure the quality of the work you are having done, and also save money up for a real daily driver. I know when the snow hits I really dont want to drive my Camaro, I couldnt imagine it with twice the amount of power! Other than that HAVE FUN! it will finally be almost a real Trans Am!
I've got a shop in south carolina who has done this swap before will do it for 6k all components included (*has done 8 tranformations before), motor / tranny, 6-speed convert, crossmember, radiator and all necessary components.... By the way you guys forget i've got v6 insurance, so I would be putting that extra 1.5k in my pocket every year instead of owning a base TA which I have completely dismissed a while ago
thats really cheap for everything that has to get done. woodscrews and duct tape I guess :lol: just kidding...sort of.
As far as the V6 insurance with an LS1 swap...thats called insurance fraud. you better pray you never get into any accidents when its all said and done. I dont think your insurance company would pay to repair a V8 motor when you're only paying for a V6.
In any case, its your car not mine. do whatever you want with it. If it were me though, I would have sold it and saved up for a true LS1 car. different folks, different strokes...
98tadriver
06-03-2006, 06:55 PM
I've got a shop in south carolina who has done this swap before will do it for 6k all components included (*has done 8 tranformations before), motor / tranny, 6-speed convert, crossmember, radiator and all necessary components.... By the way you guys forget i've got v6 insurance, so I would be putting that extra 1.5k in my pocket every year instead of owning a base TA which I have completely dismissed a while ago
:werd: :werd: :werd: im with ya on that one!!
WayFast84
06-03-2006, 09:50 PM
well i wouldnt swap a ls2 or a older pontiac motor if u want good gas milage. if your serious about this ls1 swap get rid of the gay ass ground effects while ur at it. I here you on the insurance and may be the initial reason of a ls1/t56 swap into a thirdgen when i get my liscence ;) good luck!
well i wouldnt swap a ls2 or a older pontiac motor if u want good gas milage. if your serious about this ls1 swap get rid of the gay ass ground effects while ur at it. I here you on the insurance and may be the initial reason of a ls1/t56 swap into a thirdgen when i get my liscence ;) good luck!
werd listen to this guy he knows his stuff :rofl:
:funny: :kneeslap:
Also, some Midas shops do swaps as well, depending on which swap... but your gonna most likely have to prep it first by doing all the mounts, harnesses n **** ...
Firebirdgm2000
06-03-2006, 10:52 PM
also I dont care what anybody says first car = first real love
qwikz28
06-03-2006, 11:19 PM
to answer your question: i would contact 1984camaroz28. he is a member on this board and has done ls1 swaps in V6s before and has done a M6 swap in his own car. he does good work and has fair prices. he does most of the work on my car
i'm gonna put in my 2cents cause im the ****ing man. i like the old saying go big or go home. put an ls1 in there and start building the car from thr getgo. dont put stock manifolds in there, put longtubes. no rubber motor mounts, poly ftw! put a cam and a ls6 manifold while the motor is still out. while the tranny is out put a spec 3 and aluminum flywheel and have the tranny rebuilt with good internals. etc etc. it will save you money in the long run and you will be much happier.
for me...
3rd, 7th, and 9th cars = my real loves,
after that, #'s 10-52 were more like one night stands.
ironically my # 7 is also now #53, if it comes back to you...
ummm on my allstate policy, a ta is just a firebird with options, so my insurance is the same as if i had a v6
Savage_Messiah
06-04-2006, 07:56 PM
OK to answer the "where to go" question http://www.tacreationsusa.com/
ummm on my allstate policy, a ta is just a firebird with options, so my insurance is the same as if i had a v6
really? huh, learn something new everyday :)
really? huh, learn something new everyday :)
we've been over this before, they look up your VIN.... doesnt matter what the little paper says.
bad64chevelle
06-05-2006, 10:08 PM
Anyone else glad the Gas mileage thread was closed?
Anyone else glad the Gas mileage thread was closed?
no it was funny
OrangeSS
06-06-2006, 12:08 PM
dont forget k-member, computer, driveshaft if you still have a 2 piece, you'll wanna work on your rear if you still have 3.08s or any pussy gears like that, bunch of other things... it gets pricey.
Its not as bad as you think
GP99GT
06-06-2006, 04:03 PM
Anyone else glad the Gas mileage thread was closed?
nope i was having fun :lol:
maroman88
06-06-2006, 04:56 PM
if your serious about this ls1 swap get rid of the gay ass ground effects while ur at it.
whats that got to do with anything? your gealous cuz you dont have any!
WayFast84
06-06-2006, 06:26 PM
whats that got to do with anything? your gealous cuz you dont have any!
:roll: why? ground effects on 4th gens are fugly unless they are for the 4.1 gen formula or camaro
here we go again.
:popcorn:
rgaynor85
06-07-2006, 08:59 AM
:roll: why? ground effects on 4th gens are fugly unless they are for the 4.1 gen formula or camaro
ok i finally seen this thread so heres my input.
wayfast84, your 14, just a kid still so shut up and dont opinionate on other cars and go off topic, u have a POS and it fell of the jack anyway haha. seans car is nice, im not one to put ground effects on my t/a or anything but i think everyone can agree with what hes done he has a beutiful car w/ground effects and he loves so it leave it be.he didnt put them on the car and hes at least puttin his money in a good place now, under the hood. (i dont agree with t/a badges tho on a firebird)
with that said, ive told sean many times in many conversations to dump it and buy a LSX car to start with. but despite people telling him, he loves that firechicken so if thats what he wants to do im sure he will have even more love for it when its done. people dump thousands into $500 civics so why not a v6 fbody.
As far as motors dude dont even think about an older carbed motor your just looking to have issues and say goodbye to any kinda gas mileage. youll cut what u have in half appose to keeping it close to what it is now on an LSX motor. u have seen the amazing things lsx motors do and the powerbands they have just stick with that platform. as far as what to buy in specific hmm id get an ls1 rebuild it yourself with some good parts throw a nice heads and a lienfelter cam on it i think thats the right cam im thinking of thats good for f/i, then turbo it 16-18psi on a built ls1 makes like 700-800hp from what ive seen. id be happy with 10psi, just build a strong forged ls1 setup and run like 10-12psi and have like 500hp its more than ull EVER need and youll take out 98% of cars on the road and probably still be really reliable. your lookin into alot of work and your crazy if ur gonna take it to SC to have a swap done. ill help u along the way like i said i would. ls2 would be cool but id just get the ls1 and work it they are good motors and it would leave more money for turbos,extras. like rears sense ur gonna blow that 10 bolt as soon as u put it in gear.
bad64chevelle
06-07-2006, 09:58 AM
ok i finally seen this thread so heres my input.
wayfast84, your 14, just a kid still so shut up and dont opinionate on other cars and go off topic, u have a POS and it fell of the jack haha
Hmmm....dont opinionate on other peoples cars eh?
rgaynor85
06-07-2006, 10:17 AM
Hmmm....dont opinionate on other peoples cars eh?
yeah yeah, im just saying hes 14 and has no room to talk sense he has a POS IMO, i wouldnt of ever said that if i wasnt defending someone, yes sometimes i think 2 wrongs make a right lol
yeah yeah, im just saying hes 14 and has no room to talk sense he has a POS IMO, i wouldnt of ever said that if i wasnt defending someone, yes sometimes i think 2 wrongs make a right lol
they dont? :scratch:
rgaynor85
06-07-2006, 10:55 AM
they dont? :scratch:
:werd:
on another note:
penutbutter jelly...
:banana:
bad64chevelle
06-07-2006, 10:59 AM
:funny: My GF got the biggest kick outta that damn banana she went out and bought a damn banana costume. Funny as hell though.
:funny: My GF got the biggest kick outta that damn banana she went out and bought a damn banana costume. Funny as hell though.
i bet she did :nod:
GP99GT
06-07-2006, 04:17 PM
i think we need pics of said girlfriend in said banana costume
bad64chevelle
06-07-2006, 04:19 PM
hmm...and give the leghumpers something else to look at? ehhhhh no ****ing way. However I WILL ask her if she still has the costume, and will bring it to a trucks meet so we can make Kasey wear it. This was for two halloweens ago, but I think she still has it.
hmm...and give the leghumpers something else to look at? ehhhhh no ****ing way. However I WILL ask her if she still has the costume, and will bring it to a trucks meet so we can make Kasey wear it. This was for two halloweens ago, but I think she still has it.
why would u care what leg humpers say?
Savage_Messiah
06-07-2006, 07:36 PM
hmm...and give the leghumpers something else to look at? ehhhhh no ****ing way. However I WILL ask her if she still has the costume, and will bring it to a trucks meet so we can make Kasey wear it. This was for two halloweens ago, but I think she still has it.
:rofl:
bad64chevelle
06-07-2006, 11:09 PM
Will you wear it kasey?
1QWIKBIRD
06-10-2006, 10:41 AM
I've got a shop in south carolina who has done this swap before will do it for 6k all components included (*has done 8 tranformations before), motor / tranny, 6-speed convert, crossmember, radiator and all necessary components.... By the way you guys forget i've got v6 insurance, so I would be putting that extra 1.5k in my pocket every year instead of owning a base TA which I have completely dismissed a while ago
The problem with that.....is it's insurance fraud.....I'm not dropping the dime, but if something ever happened to you or the car (of a serious nature) and the insurance company could and probably would deny your claim then you are left in a really bad situation....don't screw around with you insurance, it ain't worth it.....Once the v-8 goes in, you should upgrade the insurance, which will trigger all kinds of other red flags because the vin won't indicate an 8 cyl car, inspection could become a potential nightmare (at least hear in NJ)...it ain't worth the ********....sell and buy a V-8 car....If you really have the resources to build an 800 hp ls-x based turbo mill, then go find V-8 Donor car and start clean.....drive the v-6 rig until the v-8 car is complete....I really doubt a stock or even mildly built m6 would live behind such a beast for very long if driven hard.....
Think it though, cause once you start the money will go away very quick and if you run out half way through that project you could take a total bath....
Good Luck
Chris
rgaynor85
06-11-2006, 04:38 PM
:werd: :stupid:
this guy is right man just dump it and get the v8 like i said a long time ago nobody keeps there first car like your plannin on doin just let it go tim to start fresh now again. and also like he said if u want 4-500hp the m6 will hold but its not gonna happen on a 800hp motor and as much as it sounds easy its gonna take more cash than u think to get over 600hp and have it handle the power
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