Code 33 popping up

[88jerseyiroc]

The code states MAF 9 (gm/sec HI). Now what does this mean? I just replaced the MAF sensore because it was cracked. Now It start fine off of cold start, i drive it about 10 min, and bam there it goes, it pops the code and then starts to run like ****. Can anyone help me with this.

305 TPI engine

[enRo]

Did you recheck the sensor? This happened to me a long time ago, where I replaced the sensor and not even a cpl days later, i get the same code... so I took it back out and the 'dental-floss-lookin' wire in the housing was in half ...

[88jerseyiroc]

I checked the little "dental floss wires" looks ok to me, they arent broke. What is crap is that the dealership put in aremanufactured one, when i could have gotten a new one for lot less at advance LOL. Oh well. So what is next on the checklist??

[88jerseyiroc]

I replaced the relays for the MAF and burnoff. gave me the same problem not to after i put them in? So that leaves the wiring harness and the ECM am i right on this??

[88jerseyiroc]

quick update, i took out the ECM, looks brand new, no rust, no visible damage. Check the resistance on the wires to the MAF sensor and relays, all was good. One thing is that went i hit a bump, it somes to pop the code. So i let it cool for 5 min, then started it up, started and idled fine, until i tapped the MAF sensor and it almost made the car stall, but it didnt pop the code. this is so frustrating lol :)

[enRo]

Maybe a short. Theres an article over on TGO on testing the sensor, and getting the correct amount of volts to it. When I find it ill post it up for ya

[HardcoreZ28]

Could still be a bad ECM. Pull the ECM down and start the car. While it's idling LIGHTLY twist the ECM and see if it kills the motor or makes it run rough. Sometimes a bad connection will only show up this way.

[88jerseyiroc]

UPDATE: I did what you said hardcorez28. car still ran fine, no coes popped not even rough idling. Looks more and more it pops the code at normal operating temp. Stipid me check when the wires we cold and not heated by by the engine. I swear that was the worst place to put a MAF sensor, so close the the pullys and so close the coolant hose. I am going to take it back to chevy dealer since i spent all that money and they didnt fix the problem, so now i am going to make them do it for free.

[88jerseyiroc]

Adding to the delimma that is my car lol. I was searching around near the distributer cap and there is a single green wire connected, near the end of the driver side fuel rail near the fire wall. I noticed it was a little loose so i try to put it back together and bam one side fallsdown and now i cant seem to find it anywhere. It got so bad this morning i was lying on top of the intake to see behind the cap. Now does anyone know what i am talking about and 2.) what does it do and is it that important. now i have a few diagrams on this but it doesnt say what it does, stratch that i cant even find it on the diagrams.

Another thing, i found a chart with the OEM specs for the electrical system. I tested out the MAF singal wire from the ECM to the MAF, and it wasnt reading at all and sometimes not high enough. I think i found the prob. Now my question is, is get a new wiring harness for the MAF system OR convert it to speed density??

[enRo]

Im pretty sure there is someone over on TGO, he has 2 seperate ECMs or something, and a switch to choose between MAF and Speed Density. Speed Density from what I've read hurts performance a little bit, as much as 3 tenths in the quarter. I wouldnt bother with SD, just double check all the connectors, and if that doesnt help, go to a junkyard and yank a harness.

[project89]

tap on the maf housing while the car is running,if the idle goes up or down/trys to stall etc while u tap on it the maf is no good.code 33 is hi vacum at maf,meaning its telling the ecm there is a lot of air entering the engine.is the engine modded?

[88jerseyiroc]

Lethal, no the engine is stock, nothing modded. i did the tap the MAF and it does exaactly that, it goes down and tries to stall popping the code. Then the car runs like crap. Exactly like hitting a bump, when it ususally happens or when i make a full left or right turn, like in a K-turn. Since my dad is works with wiring and stuff, we tested the MAF singal wire and it was giving the same reading through the tests you can do. with Key on it was reading 5.03V when it was supposed to be .4V to 1V. then with the engine on and running same result 5.03V and with WOT it was 5.02. Now could that be an ECM problem or a wiring problem??

[project89]

replace it,80% sure that would be a bad maf,goto autozone and pic up a maf and try it,if it still does the same thing then u know u have other problems,and then u can return the maf u just bought to autozone,if u do buy another one dont turn in ur old one as a core,cause if u do and the new maf does the same things,u wont be able to return the one u just bought and get ur old maf back

[88jerseyiroc]

I just got this MAF sensor like a week and half ago from the dealer lol. How would test the MAF itself??

[project89]

take it back,if its a remanufactured maf more then likely its bad,eithe rhave them replace it,or refund ur money.u test the maf by testing the voltag eit puts out on the signal wire,i dont know what the volts should be for idle/part throtle/wot,but what u can do is hook up the voltmeter,and check the voltag eat idle,and then crack the throttle and see if the reading changes,

edit nm u did that take the maf back its bad

[88jerseyiroc]

Ok going to test it now, i checked the wire off the sensor and i am going to check it with the sensor on. I post the results soon

[project89]

yeah it has to be pluged in,that 5volt wire u probed may have been an 5 volt refernce wire not the signal wire,iof the sensor was unpluged the signal wire should have 0 volts if im not mistaken

[88jerseyiroc]

Ok when key is on it is 2.4V+/-. when i have the engine on it ranges from .6 to 1.2V but it stumbles it rises to almost 3V, popping the code.

[project89]

ok now u just need to find out what the voltage should be @ idle and wot,if its off from what it should be u sir have a bad maf

[88jerseyiroc]

ALLDATA gives me 2.4V with "key on" and .4 -1V with engine running. Now from my testing it is fine until you tap the MAF sensor. so does that mean i have a bad MAF sensor?

[project89]

yes if the voltag echanges when u tap the maf its junk,take it back to the dealer

[88jerseyiroc]

Well I went to advanced auto and ordered me a new one, not a remanufactured one, so tomorrow i will pick it up and put it in my car. Will give you the results tomorrow sometime.

[88jerseyiroc]

UPDATE: I got a new MAF sensor, not a remanufactured one and guess what 10 min after i out it in it popped the code. So I am back to square one. At this point I am just about to torch the damn thing and get a ricer.

[88jerseyiroc]

UPDATE: Ok with the new MAF sensor on it popped code 33 again and code 36, now code 36 states, MAF burnoff. Ok what does this mean, i change the relays for both burn off and maf sensor.

[project89]

check the power lead to the burnoff relay

[project89]

check the power lead to the burnoff relay.make sure the relay ground wire is grounded.check the relay trigger wire for 12 volts also

[88jerseyiroc]

ok i will do that tomorrow since i have time. is there any particluar way of doing that? or is it just same old basic wire testing?

[88jerseyiroc]

Ok i am looking at this diagram and i think it is wrong because it is only showing 4 wires coming out of the burn off relay and i know there is 5. here is the diagram link http://images.ardiem78.com/f_image.gif.

[V]

i thought only 85s had the burn off relay...

[88jerseyiroc]

Ok so i tested it, seemed fine to me, i got 12.34 V on the power lead, the ground was good. maybe the signal wire is messed up from the sensor. Also while testing this code 14 popped, CTS temp hi. So i figure my car is going to blow up soon. I might have to repalced all the wiring.

[project89]

wellif the car thinks the motor is really hot,that will cause it to run like **** all together

[88jerseyiroc]

Yea but it wasnt doing that before, meaning overheating. it has brand new relays for the fan and and new thermostat. Code 14 is a new code that popped when i was testin out the relays.

[project89]

just fo rthe hell of it reset the codes,and unplug the maf and see if the car runs anybetter

[88jerseyiroc]

I reseted the codes. but soon after i started up the car, they popped again. The car runs the same with or without the MAF sensor when the codes are popped but if the codes arent present and there is no check engine light, the car difintely runs like crap or stall. Plus i think now the cooling fans arent coming on, making the car overheat. I think my car is almost dead. it is like telling it wants to be buried or something. This is getting so frustrating.

[project89]

test the colant temp sensor

[88jerseyiroc]

Now that sensor is below the throttle body right going into the block? How would you check that?

[The Fixer]

Now that sensor is below the throttle body right going into the block? How would you check that?

There's actually two sensors going into the front of the intake manifold below the throttle body. One has a connector with a metal wire on it, that looks like the connectors on the injectors. That's not the one you need. Check the other one. I'm sure you can check the resistance across the two pins inside of the sensor to see if it's within spec, but I'm not sure where that info is. We gotta find you a service manual!

[88jerseyiroc]

Ok thanks Mr Ragusa. I have the chilton book and ALLDATADIY.com. but those pictures on either one arent very clear on which it was, I do have the specs for it so i will post them when i get them.

[88jerseyiroc]

Oh yea the CTS is difintely busted. I have to get a new one and insdtall it. Hopefully the fan circuit is not damage, making the fans not come on. Oh yea pretty soon, i am difintely going to need a new wiring harness. Wires are getting stripped and connectors are breaking.

[The Fixer]

Don't be surprised, when you pull the CTS out, some antifreeze will come out with it. After it finishes drooling all over your driveway, dry up the hole, then put some teflon tape on the threads of the new CTS, and install. If the original CTS was bad, it could explain a bunch of your problems, since the computer really had no idea how warm your car was and probably put it in Limp mode.

[88jerseyiroc]

Oh you have no idea how shot the CTS was. it was reading infinite when i tested it. Yea i was prepared for the antifreeze to come out, put carboard under my car to get most of it. Hopefully this will help it some. Maybe today it wont pop any codes. I will try to update when i get home from work.

[88jerseyiroc]

Ok still tripping Code 14 and Code 33. At this point i would say it is a wiring problem. Plus the cooling fans arent coming on either. talking about getting the shaft up the ass without no lube.

[88jerseyiroc]

I have tested the cooling fan circuit it seems to be ok until the relay. It looks like someone rigged a wire from the one power source on the main cooling fan to the second cooling fan relay. Most of the wires by the battery are either rigged or burnt too. At the relay i got power and ground but when i jump the terminal like it said on ALLDATA, the fans didnt come on. Plus it is still popping the code for CTS hi, which i just replaced. The fans dont even come on when turning on the AC. I got 3 days to fix the overheating. I can live with the rough idling but i cant go with the car overheating like that. Any sugesstions??

[Tru2Chevy]

Wll if there are a lot of rigged wires around the engine bay, your issues could be coming from anywhere. I would do your best to try and figure out what each of the "rigged" wires is for, and see if there is a better way to fix the issues that they were installed for. If wires are burning up, then something isn't setup correctly, and could be wreaking havoc on your entire electrical system.

- Justin

[88jerseyiroc]

Ok wow i was searching the the wires and whatnot like you said and whoa there is a whole load of problem with it, stripped wires, wries that been cut of from connectors, 5 of the wires leading to the MAF sensor were stripped under the plastic coating right near the thottle body. I duct taped them up because i dont heat strinks. near the battery there is whole load of mess with the cooling fan wires and bulk connector. by the fuse box there are wires spliced all over the place. Now i know what the damn problem is, someone messed up the wiring and it was big time. Now difintely need a new wiring harness. there is no doubt in my mind. so here is my question, should i do it myself or should i have someone do it, like a dealer or something??

BTW guys thanks for all your help. I know i might seem like a pain but i dont want to by a Ricer and get rid of the IROC.

[The Fixer]

If you can find a complete uncut engine harness, you can swap it yourself (or with some help) in a couple of hours. Just unplug everything cleanly, and reconnect the new harness carefully. All the connectors pretty much lead themselves the right way, the only thing you'll have to watch our for is the knock sensor and coolant sensor; those plugs are very similar.

Also, the harness will be the same for '87-'88, so you should be OK if you don't find one exactly off an '87.

[V]

also, make sure you get a camaro harness, a firebird/trans am one is set up for the battery on the drivers side. so if you find a "tpi harness" for sale, check to see what its out of. And like steve said, 87 and 88 are the same. IF you have no other choice, you COULD use an 86 harness, BUT youd have to modify/lengthen the wires for the alt and a/c compressor. however with your current situation i dont think youd wanna deal with anymore cutting and splicing, lol.

[88jerseyiroc]

Hmm i found this http://tpiparts.net/inc/sdetail/3145. Would that be a logical choice or should i get a whole new one?.

[V]

thats a nice option, but NOT worth the base price of 350... a NEW Painless Wiring brand stand alone TPI harness isn't even that much. ($325.88 )

Check ebay or on thridgen.org

[88jerseyiroc]

I was looking at the painless wiring site and i got really confused. I wish it more clear on what i need on that site.

[project89]

here ya go
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TPI-speed-density-harness-ecm-chip-sensors_W0QQitemZ160005934507QQihZ006QQcategoryZ33 553QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
new harness/ecm etc and it swaps the car over to speed density so u can throw that maf sensor in the trash

[The Fixer]

here ya go
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TPI-speed-density-harness-ecm-chip-sensors_W0QQitemZ160005934507QQihZ006QQcategoryZ33 553QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
new harness/ecm etc and it swaps the car over to speed density so u can throw that maf sensor in the trash

Right, but then he'll also have to re-pin the harness inside, and get a new ECM too. IMO, he's better off finding a correct replacement. Besides, he's already spent the big coin for a new MAF, so it's not like he'd have to worry about it dying! :)

[88jerseyiroc]

Yea true Mr ragusa. I just get the replacement harness, i am already lost on wiring harnesses, i dont need anything else to confuse me :). I have do so some research now to see what exactly i need to get my car running normal.

[V]

The guy seeling that harness lethalrides2k3 mentioned is a good guy. His name is Leonard sparks. I bought my custom SD tpi harness, ecm, and custom chip from him, and he helped me out when the chip had a problem, If you want, try emailing him and explaining your situation. He should be able to make you a direct replacement harness for your 88 camaro. You may have also found his website, Chevythunder.com, which explains the tpi systems quite a bit.