Gears...

[Tsar]

so um..ive been pondering what should i stick in there. 4.10, 3.90, or 3.73? i know most will probably say 4.10s and what not but you gotta remember the car is my DD, i was thinking about picking up a beater but i dont have it yet. So keeping in mind that i gotta drive the ****box everyday should i swap out the stockers? Oh and how is driveability and all that jazz with different gear?

ok, go go go... :nod:

[chrisfrom nj]

i know where you can get a beater jeep for like 400

[bad64chevelle]

When I went from 3:23s to 3:73s the car was completely different. It gained ALOT. My car with the A4 felt alot better, but I dont think with 3:42s and a M6 and bumping to 3:73s will be a big jump. You have alot of transmission gear to go to a 4:10 without really running into drivability problems. I think (IMO) 4:10s in a M6 would be the best way to go if youre looking to gain some performance from the car.

[Savage_Messiah]

4.10s, you'll have no DD problems, in fact it'll probably make things easier/better.

[j0n]

id stick with 3.90s at the most, cuz with 4.10s you'll be shifting into 5th before the traps at the track if you run a stock tire size.

[bad64chevelle]

That depends on if he is planning on going to the track and how much. I know with the Nova I will be running the LT1/T56 but with 4:56 gears, but I dont really care about having to use 5th in that car.

[unstable bob gable]

4.10s FTW!

[WayFast84]

wait, so If I care all about the 1/4 no drivablity or gas milage, I should get a 6sp and some 4.56?

I want 4.10's for my car now.

[Tsar]

wait, so If I care all about the 1/4 no drivablity or gas milage, I should get a 6sp and some 4.56?

I want 4.10's for my car now.
dont even think about hijacking my thread.


Um..some interesting points so far. J0n brought up a good one, but i dunno how often i would go to the track, however if i did go i wouldnt wanna really shift into 5th before the traps. How much will the speedo be off, does any one know? i mean ill get it tuned eventually but not right away, and i dont want tickets :lol:

[j0n]

ok i just rechecked my calculations and i was wrong...if you plan on doing more than basic bolt-ons you'll be shifting into 5th.

4th gear with 4.10s = 106 @ 5700rpms
4th gear with 3.90s = 112 @ 5700rpms

edit: for comparison, cutting a 2.0 60' i trapped ~ 103 with a shifter, mid-length headers, and a tune

[ar0ck]

I also cut a 2.0 60' & trap 103 as well in 4th with 3.42s
(intake, cut-out, shifter, suspension)

[98tadriver]

i trap at 111 with my 4.11s, stock tires. its at 6100 thru the traps too :/
sorry i dont wanna hijack thread here

[Tru2Chevy]

Your LS1 can easily spin up higher than their LT1s in stock form.

- Justin

[BonzoHansen]

What is your 1st gear ratio?

[j0n]

What is your 1st gear ratio?

2.66 : 1

[BonzoHansen]

As I have been told, the rule of thumb is to keep 1st Gear X Rear Gear between 10 and 11 (at least for street cars). Higher than 11 and 1st gear is pretty useless, lower and you don’t have enough gear, I guess causing tuning and clutch issues. I suppose this also assumes normal height street tires, not giant slicks. Super tall tires would likely alter the decision process – and I don’t know drag racing needs enough to comment. So based on that, here is the range you might look at:

2.66 x 4.56 = 12.1
2.66 x 4.11 = 10.9 <--in range
2.66 x 3.90 = 10.4 <--in range
2.66 x 3.73 = 9.9 <--in range
2.66 x 3.42 = 9.1

Cruising RPM, based on .50 6th (I am assuming 4th gen T56), Tire OD 25.8 (275/40/17)

GEAR 55m 65m 75mph
4.11 1471 1739 2007
3.90 1396 1650 1904
3.73 1335 1578 1821 (You‘d barely use this gear on the street :))

The 4.11s or 3.90s look tasty. And it seems some experience with T56 4th gens around here support this. Just an opinion based on what I have been told over the years.

[Tsar]

oh wow, thanks alot :)


follow up question. does the brand matter, such as "motive" or "strange" whos got a better rep? or is all the same crap? thanks

[WildBillyT]

oh wow, thanks alot :)


follow up question. does the brand matter, such as "motive" or "strange" whos got a better rep? or is all the same crap? thanks

Name brand stuff is usually good. Motive, Strange, Richmond, etc...

Just note that properly set up street gears will make little or no noise. Don't believe the "so-and-so's gears make noise" buzz. Getting it done right means doing it over a few times in many cases, and not every rear builder will go to that length to keep gear noise down.

[qwikz28]

http://www.f-body.org/gears/

have fun

[bad64chevelle]

As I have been told, the rule of thumb is to keep 1st Gear X Rear Gear between 10 and 11 (at least for street cars). Higher than 11 and 1st gear is pretty useless, lower and you don’t have enough gear, I guess causing tuning and clutch issues. I suppose this also assumes normal height street tires, not giant slicks. Super tall tires would likely alter the decision process – and I don’t know drag racing needs enough to comment. So based on that, here is the range you might look at:

2.66 x 4.56 = 12.1
2.66 x 4.11 = 10.9 <--in range
2.66 x 3.90 = 10.4 <--in range
2.66 x 3.73 = 9.9 <--in range
2.66 x 3.42 = 9.1

Wow if you are right, I get a little nervous about the trans going in the chevelle with a 3.42 first gear ratio
3.42x4.10=14.02

[qwikz28]

Wow if you are right, I get a little nervous about the trans going in the chevelle with a 3.42 first gear ratio
3.42x4.10=14.02
:w00t:




















T56 swap?

[bad64chevelle]

no...

[qwikz28]

no...
i guess you like giving all your money to gas stations :shrug:

[WildBillyT]

Wow if you are right, I get a little nervous about the trans going in the chevelle with a 3.42 first gear ratio
3.42x4.10=14.02

3.42 first?

What trans are you using?

[qwikz28]

3.42 first?

What trans are you using?
M20 IIRC

[WildBillyT]

M20 IIRC

That isn't a 3.42 first, an M20 has a 2.52.

Maybe a late (1980+) Iron case Super-T10?

[bad64chevelle]

That isn't a 3.42 first, an M20 has a 2.52.

Maybe a late (1980+) Iron case Super-T10?
You sir are correct. Its a Super T10 with Cast front section and aluminum rear section case.

[WildBillyT]

Just curious- is there a particular reason why you chose that trans for your swap over an overdrive unit? Cost, vintage feel, no room in the tunnel, etc?

[qwikz28]

Just curious- is there a particular reason why you chose that trans for your swap over an overdrive unit? Cost, vintage feel, no room in the tunnel, etc?
i would like to know this as well. especially doing many long stints on the highway to go to car shows it just sounds like a decent idea.

[WildBillyT]

i would like to know this as well. especially doing many long stints on the highway to go to car shows it just sounds like a decent idea.

Yeah, I was in between an AutoGear M22 for a "vintage feel" or a T56 for cruisablity and decided to go with the latter. I'm a long way off from using it but I'm sure it will take a bite out of my 4.11's. Buzzing high on the freeway gets old pretty fast, and it isn't great for your motor either.

[BonzoHansen]

You sir are correct. Its a Super T10 with Cast front section and aluminum rear section case.Is it out of a 2nd gen Trans Am? Maybe that explains why so many TA posi rears have 2.xx gears in them. The ST-10 in my 77 is all aluminum (and is rather light).

Wow if you are right, I get a little nervous about the trans going in the chevelle with a 3.42 first gear ratio
3.42x4.10=14.02Yeah, that is the impression I am under. It is that thought process that has made me pass up at least 2 deals on TKO500s for my 77. I have a 3.73 rear in it (no posi :mad: ), and the 1st in the TKO500 is kind of steep.

Trans w/3.73 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
TKO500 12.1 3.27 1.98 1.34 1.00 0.68
TKO600 10.7 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 0.64
TKO600RR 10.7 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 0.82
93-02 F 9.92 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50 (also 03+VIPER)
4.6L ‘STANG 11.0 2.97 2.07 1.43 1.00 0.80 0.62 (also GM/FORD Aftermarket)
ST-10 77Z28 9.82 2.64 1.75 1.34 1.00 0.00 (for reference)


My choice right now is still the standard TKO600 due to gears, although an f-body T56 is not out of the thought process yet. It has a nice gear spread, although not as even as the 4.6L Ford one. I’m just not sure I’d use 6th too much with a carb engine. But retrofitting the slave setup is not something I care to think about too much.

BTW, I have all this on my computer at work because I was researching it a while back during a series of useless conference calls. :)

[bad64chevelle]

I was originally looking to go with a M21, but since they are scarce and the only ones I could find had an extremly low (numericaly) gear ratio I found this one and decided it would work for my application. The Chevelle was/is my first restoration, I dont care about buzzing RPMs, gas mileage or drivability. I am going for the fun factor here only. I enjoy rowing through gears, but cant afford a T56 or something like that. A t56 alone would cost me up into the thousand dollar range, then still need to work out linkages, clutches (which arent exactly cheap for those transmissions) and all sorts of other odds and ends. dont get me wrong I would have loved to go with a good 6speed or even a 5speed but it just isnt in my budget (especially since I payed good money for a "Reputable" place to build me a performance trans once) Had I originally known what I do now when I started this restoration I would have done the t56 right off the bat, but that was about 6 years ago when I was 15ish and really was beginning my journey. The chevelle is just a classic muscle car that has a hopped up 327 and needs to be backed by a 4speed plain and simple. Nostalgia all the way on this car, but I will do differently when I do the Nova.

[WildBillyT]

I was originally looking to go with a M21, but since they are scarce and the only ones I could find had an extremly low (numericaly) gear ratio I found this one and decided it would work for my application. The Chevelle was/is my first restoration, I dont care about buzzing RPMs, gas mileage or drivability. I am going for the fun factor here only. I enjoy rowing through gears, but cant afford a T56 or something like that. A t56 alone would cost me up into the thousand dollar range, then still need to work out linkages, clutches (which arent exactly cheap for those transmissions) and all sorts of other odds and ends. dont get me wrong I would have loved to go with a good 6speed or even a 5speed but it just isnt in my budget (especially since I payed good money for a "Reputable" place to build me a performance trans once) Had I originally known what I do now when I started this restoration I would have done the t56 right off the bat, but that was about 6 years ago when I was 15ish and really was beginning my journey. The chevelle is just a classic muscle car that has a hopped up 327 and needs to be backed by a 4speed plain and simple. Nostalgia all the way on this car, but I will do differently when I do the Nova.

I completely understand, I was just curious about the trans choice. :D

[bad64chevelle]

yeah, I have always wanted a 4speed for the car since it originally was a 4speed car, but Muncies are hard to come by in decent condition and for a fair price the ST10 was both of those, so it worked out perfectly.

[Squirrel]

vita, with 4:11's youll be capable of 115 in 4th with stock tire size at 6200
121 with 3:90's...you wont need to worry about shifting to 5th until youre into the motor, and at that point the cam will raise your shift points to 6600 or so, making 123 capable at the top of 4th with 410's
Eric

[Savage_Messiah]

4.10s. Man up.

[Tsar]

alright alright guys, i get it :lol: ill put gears on the list right after headers most likely.

[bad64chevelle]

4.10s. Man up.
:werd: Both the Chevelle and the Ram have 4:10s. Nothin like seeing a 6000 lbs truck putin the tires up in smoke and Im pretty sure its cause of the 4:10s....or maybe the 5.9

[Batman]

Don't be a sissy, get the 4.10's and just wind it out to 6500 in the 1/4 :). Seriously though for an LT1 I would go 3.90's or 3.73's.

[98tadriver]

4.56s or go home
haha jk, but i know ive heard that somewhere before