TKO 600 or leave the M21?

[JL8Jeff]

Hmmmm, since I'm pretty sure I'll be doing a new clutch on the SS396 sometime in the fall/winter I started debating getting a TKO 600 5 speed overdrive so it would be easier to drive on the highway. The M21 in the car is not the original trans so I don't really care that much about it. And there are complete kits that bolt the TKO 600 straight in with no cutting and would look almost completely stock original. But I think the 69 Z28 would be real jealous if I put money into the 70! :laugh:

[WayFast84]

do it but keep the original trans and stuff

[WildBillyT]

do it but keep the original trans and stuff

X2.

TKO's are real nice. What's your rear axle ratio?

[WayFast84]

X2.

TKO's are real nice.

yep Id have one in my car right now if I didnt get stiffed :mad:

[BonzoHansen]

Is the clutch why you don't want to drive it far?

And yes, no one read the part that says "The M21 in the car is not the original trans so I don't really care that much about it." :)

Classic Chevy 5 Speed all the way if you are buying it new. I spent an hour talking transmission issues with Jeff - I do not have any of his products, BTW. But you probably know that from Team Camaro.

[JL8Jeff]

The clutch is another issue but the car revs pretty good on the highway and it would be nicer to keep them down if possible. The car has 3.55's in it right now but the tach and speedometer are off so I'm not really sure what it's doing. It's reading 3500 rpm's at 50 mph and I know that's not right. But it's definitely buzzing along trying to keep up with traffic. Speedo looks to be around 5 mph too low and the tires are 245/60/15's so they're close to stock height.

[BonzoHansen]

3.55, that is right on the edge, you could go 500 or 600. You need to verifyu that. I see 500s for sale used a lot, 1200-1500 range.

Got the 245s all around?

[JL8Jeff]

Yup, 245's all around. 3.55's aren't that bad but without OD it gets kinda tough.

[Squirrel]

t56 go?

[BigAls87Z28]

Jeff, do the 245's rub at all? I plan on putting them on the rally rims I have, and the rally's have a 4.5 backspacing. Ive read on nasty that it might rub depending on backspacing.

[JL8Jeff]

I haven't noticed any rubbing with the 245's. My car has the 15x7 Z28 wheels but I'm not sure what the backspacing is. T56 would be much more difficult to use since I want to keep the car somewhat close to stock.

[BonzoHansen]

Yeah, the T56 is not quick or easy. It is the hydraulic clutch that appears to be the biggest PITA. It's not like there is a lot of room on 2nd gens anywhere near the brake booster. Plus 3.55 gears are not ideal with a T56.

Plus w/o a special shifter, you have to cut the floor a bit.

[WildBillyT]

Yeah, the T56 is not quick or easy. It is the hydraulic clutch that appears to be the biggest PITA. It's not like there is a lot of room on 2nd gens anywhere near the brake booster. Plus 3.55 gears are not ideal with a T56.

Plus w/o a special shifter, you have to cut the floor a bit.

Not to mention that they are pretty big in the tunnel.

[jims69camaro]

leave the M21 rock crusher.

[WildBillyT]

leave the M21 rock crusher.

M21 isn't a rock crusher. Same ratios but different gear angle. M22 is the rock crusher.

[BonzoHansen]

M22 has striaght cut teeth, right? Stronger & noisier?

[WildBillyT]

Yes, the angle of the gears is different, so that they are stronger but at the same time noiser.

[bad64chevelle]

lol rock crushers, my uncle has one in his 427 Vette, its fun!

[Ian]

M22 has striaght cut teeth, right? Stronger & noisier?

the teeth arent straight cut, but the angle they're on is pretty damn close as far as gears go.

[bad64chevelle]

yeah they are pretty much straight, not a very forgiving trans.

[WildBillyT]

Hopefully I won't be filleted for hot linking:

http://www.camaros.org/muncie_gears.jpg

Note the (obvious) angle difference in the gear cut.

[BonzoHansen]

What taper? :)

[BigAls87Z28]

Bwahahah...thaaaaaats pretty close.
Good deal on the 245's. The rally's are 15x8.

[BonzoHansen]

Al, just order them and if they don't fit, put them back on the shelf. :)

[79CamaroDiva]

wow, i didn't even read this thread until bonzo told me about it on nastyz28.. i was looking at putting an lt1 t56 into my camaro, it will supposedly bolt right up to my zz4, and i've been told pedal assembly switch shouldn't be that difficult. gears are 4.10s, which is why i hate driving the auto, just not highway friendly. should i be looking more at what jeff is talking about?

[Ian]

wow, i didn't even read this thread until bonzo told me about it on nastyz28.. i was looking at putting an lt1 t56 into my camaro, it will supposedly bolt right up to my zz4, and i've been told pedal assembly switch shouldn't be that difficult. gears are 4.10s, which is why i hate driving the auto, just not highway friendly. should i be looking more at what jeff is talking about?

jeff is only looking for a 5 speed because it will fit without any major modifications and he wants to keep the car as original as possible. You'd be better off with the T-56 because you have 4.10's and you wont lose sleep at night over the fact that you had to trim the trans tunnel a little bit.

[BonzoHansen]

I think McLeod makes a special shifter for the T56 that may let you put it in w/o cutting the tunnel.

[V]

the CTS-V T56 shifter setup is VERY different from the f body setup and may be an idea.

[BonzoHansen]

The 4.10s would work nice with a T56 or a TKO600

[WildBillyT]

I think McLeod makes a special shifter for the T56 that may let you put it in w/o cutting the tunnel.

I think you can use their bellhousing to retain a mechanical clutch linkage as well.

[BonzoHansen]

That intrigues me.

[JL8Jeff]

Skip the T56, too much extra hassle for a minimal difference in power capability. The TKO 600 is rated for 600 hp and around 600lb/ft of torque. You can use a stock clutch linkage setup as well and get .68 overdrive which is fine with 4.10 gears. My old 454SS pickup had 4.10's with overdrive and ran 70 mph at 2400 rpm's. Those tires were a little taller around 28" tall compared to a Camaro tire which will be closer to 26-27 range. I would look into it for sure. There is a complete kit that Classic Chevy 5 Speed sells which includes almost everything you would need. But at this point it looks like that money will be going into a new furnace/AC setup this fall for the house. There's a new setup on Ebay for the 70-81 Camaro/Firebird right now and I bet the guy is looking to get around $2000 for it.

[Ian]

But at this point it looks like that money will be going into a new furnace/AC setup this fall for the house.

:shock:

you use air conditioning!?!?!?!?!

[79CamaroDiva]

:shock:

you use air conditioning!?!?!?!?!

umm... read the next part of that sentence... FOR THE HOUSE...

[BigAls87Z28]

That's what he means....Jeff was talking about how he suffers summer after summer without AC and has no problem and that kids now a days have it too good. Well...now he's getting AC.

[Ian]

:stupid:

[qwikz28]

http://www.nickles.de/stories/images/bm/ice_age.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~jeffhansbury/1970SS396/70396small2.jpg

resemblance? ok back on topic

[Savage_Messiah]

you big headed egyptian... go play in traffic

[JL8Jeff]

Yup, we had the AC on for 3 days! Set at 84 and it was nice in the house! But we really need a new furnace that's more efficient so it's wise to upgrade both units at the same time. Our HVAC is original to the house which was built in 74. But alas, our neighborhood was once again silent as all the kids ran inside to their AC cooled houses. The only noise to be heard was me mowing the lawn and a couple of golfers across the street dropping the F-bomb because they missed their putts! I think the most we have ever run the AC was about 7-10 days one summer 7 years ago when we were having new windows and siding done on the house. It was bone dry that summer and we had a 2 week stretch of 95-100 degree days and the workers needed to cool off. This past "heat wave" was a joke compared to the old days. We hit 96, 95 and 96 the past 3 days in the Ewing/Trenton area. That ain't no heat wave.

But back to the TKO. The TKO can use the older mechanical clutch linkage or the hydarulic style like the T56. I'll just have to keep it on my wish list until next year.

[V]

up here we had 101-103 the past 3 days

[BonzoHansen]

Jeff, the thermometer in my car (parked in the shade) at work the past 3 days in Hopewell read 101* each day. All I know is the garage was intolerable.

I was going to do a TKO600 this winter, but my compressor biting the dust pushed it off one year. So if we are both looking around the same time, maybe we can get a group discount from CC5S. :) There is actually one listed at GP superstore right now.

[JL8Jeff]

Those 101 readings aren't real readings they are heat soaked readings. Believe me, this past heat wave wasn't anything close to that one 7 years ago. What they keep forgetting when they're predicting these temps is that we have had a wet Spring/Summer so far and all the lawns are green, the bushes and trees are full and the ground is soft from the rain. That keeps the temps down at least 4-5 degrees compared to a drought where the grass is browned out and the ground is bone dry and rock hard. Obviously the temps in the cities will read a little higher because they have no grass, trees or bushes.

What's a compressor for?

[BonzoHansen]

My trusty but small 25g Craftsman compressor has a tank issue I’ve decided not to resolve. The drain pipe rotted, and when I went to ez-out it (in retrospect, my 1st mistake), the big bushing it screws into in the bottom of the tank broke, but the threaded ring part of it stayed in the tank. I tried heating it and chiseling it out, but it is not budging. I’m not looking to mess with it much more, so I am planning on upgrading big time (80g). I have decided being able to sandblast is a nifty thing – in fact there are a bunch of parts for the 77 in my cabinet right now. And I want to learn to paint.

Anyone need a compressor? Runs fine, needs a tank – cheap!

I was parked in the shade (concrete parking deck). I agree, it has been worse. The grass is still growing. But it was not a picnic either.

[WildBillyT]

My trusty but small 25g Craftsman compressor has a tank issue I’ve decided not to resolve. The drain pipe rotted, and when I went to ez-out it (in retrospect, my 1st mistake), the big bushing it screws into in the bottom of the tank broke, but the threaded ring part of it stayed in the tank. I tried heating it and chiseling it out, but it is not budging. I’m not looking to mess with it much more, so I am planning on upgrading big time (80g). I have decided being able to sandblast is a nifty thing – in fact there are a bunch of parts for the 77 in my cabinet right now. And I want to learn to paint.

Anyone need a compressor? Runs fine, needs a tank – cheap!

I was parked in the shade (concrete parking deck). I agree, it has been worse. The grass is still growing. But it was not a picnic either.

Being able to blast is a nice thing, that's for sure. As far as a compressor, if you look for shops closing down you might find a good deal. That big green one I use is from a paint and body place. Do you have a pic of the compressor problem?

[BonzoHansen]

I'll see if I can get a pic up later. I've been scouting a bit, but I'll look harder after I get back from vacation. This is casuing me to take a break from the 77. I'm gonna start my garage floor when i get back, then buy a new compressor, then get back to the car.

/hijack off

Jeff, there is a Tremec 3550 for sale at pro-touirng. I think that is very similar to the TKO500. The ratios the guy listed are the same. It might have a ford input shaft (I thought the 3550 was a mustang tranny).