Camaro Announcement Coming Thursday

[BigAls87Z28]

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?p=708971#post708971

[enRo]

Cool. Now the question is ... it says "A V6 and two V8's" ... does this mean LS2/LS7 ?! If so, Im gonna kick my car goobye once the new camaros come out!

[NJSPEEDER]

i am willing to bet they will offer the 5.3 as the base V8 and have the mighty LS2 be an option.

[WayFast84]

Does any one know if the camaro that was at the auto show was an ss or z or a rs???





Dear santa,

For christmas I want a new camaro with a ls7 and a t56. I would also like my drivers liscence, free gas for life and cheap insurance.

Thanks,
Matt

[NJSPEEDER]

the trim on the car at the auto shows only refered to it being a camaro. concept vehicles do not normally denote any particular trim level or promise of parts. only a look and a general idea of what could hit the production line.

[WayFast84]

the trim on the car at the auto shows only refered to it being a camaro. concept vehicles do not normally denote any particular trim level or promise of parts. only a look and a general idea of what could hit the production line.
So that means if it does hit the production lines, it could mean different hoods,wheels, fenders and tail lights right?

[NJSPEEDER]

prety much. we already know that the exhuast coming through the bumper like the concept car won't happen, and there was always talk of the hood changing. i hope they leave the tail lights alone though.

[qwikz28]

i am willing to bet they will offer the 5.3 as the base V8 and have the mighty LS2 be an option.
how much are you willing to bet? i'm goin with LS2 and LS9 (blown 6.2), the latter to be offered a couple months later as a big dollar option to cockslap the gt500.

[BigAls87Z28]

There is no trim level on the concept, but there are clay models with Z28 badging on them. There is too big of a fight between enthusiasts on which trim level is really the ultimate trim level, Z28 or SS.
As for 3 engines, think of it this way.
Its MY2007 and the Toyota Camry has a 270hp V6, the new Saturn Aura has a 255hp V6, the Honda Accord has a 250hp V6, Toyota Avalon has a 280hp V6, not to mention the Nissan 350Z has a 300hp V6. Next year, the Mustang will get the brand new 3.5 Duratec V6 said to make between 250 to 280hp.
Do not expect anything less then 250hp either out of a cheaply produced 3.9 OHV engine with VVT, or maybe moving the whole segment and having the V6 Camaro come in at 300hp with the new 3.6 with direct injection that will debut in the CTS in Jan. At 300hp, that gives the Camaro an awewsome performance jump, and would be priced right around Mustang GT. This would also undercut the 350Z's price with the same type of set up. This could finaly give V6 owners a sporty car to play with, instead of feeling like they had to settle for the V6 model. The V6 model is very important to Camaro's future.
As for the 2 V8's, it seems as if the LS2 will be gone by 2008, and incomes the LS3, a 6.2 V8 making anywhere from 400hp to 475hp. This is said to be the top of the line engine for Camaro, and a 350-370hp 5.3 will be put into production. I have to look into that more, but I would assume that the 5.3 going that much higher in performance would not leave a lot to be done as they would be maxed out. A detuned 6.0 motor is used in Austraila that makes 365hp or around there. That could leave a LOT of room for mods and make LS2 power in no time. Only problem is that this 6.0 might not feel that responsive compared to, lets say, a 350hp LS1. A benfit of the detuned motor would be running on regular gas with a lower compression ratio along, and less fuel to be used, which could all increase gas-friendlieness.
Im not worried about the V8 models, its what they do with teh V6 that I am really interested in.

[NJSPEEDER]

isn't the australian version of the 6liter the engine that has all of GM's variable displacement designed into it?
i seem to remember something about it being a cyl cut engine at cruising loads.

[qwikz28]

so ford gets a 500hp blown 5.4, and we get a 6.2 that will be lucky if its rated at 450?

damnit! we suck again!

[NJSPEEDER]

watch out when ford claims an HP number. their cars never measure up to the claims their marketing department makes.
there was an article in hot rod a few years ago i shoudl try to dig up. they did dyno pulls on a bunch of production performance cars and compared the numbers at the wheels to the numbers advertised. GM was the closest, the dodges were right behind, and the fords were way the hell off.

[BigAls87Z28]

All the Gen IV engines have AFM designed in them. The LS2 is the only engine that did not get it because Team Vette dont play that ****.
All other Gen IV's have AFM as seen in the new GMT-900 SUV's and Pick Ups. They are also designed with Variable Valve Timing, another big addition that we will see with the LS3.
The 6.2 is a hybrid motor. Its Gen IV Version 2.0 you could say. The advancements from the LS1 to LS6 netted the LS2. The Advancements from the LS2 to the LS7, nets us the L92/LS3 engine. The L92 heads are similar in design to the LS7's, minus the sodium filled valves, CNC porting, etc, but the intake port design and semi-big block style valves along with the flow capacity is about there. GM has recently started selling the L92 castings assembled for pretty cheap. The L92 in the GMT-900's has VVT and AFM, and makes 403hp in the Caddy Escalade and the GMC Denali's. And thats a truck motor. Imagine if someone with performance came in and played with it...well....you get the LS3.
Additional info. the 6.2 was the original displacement for the LS7. Team Vette was aiming for 500hp, but couldnt quite reach it, somewhere in the 480ish range. Then then moved displacement to 7.0, and they blew past that number and into the 500's, and still keeping it 26mpg highway.

[BigAls87Z28]

Eh,the 5.4SC motor that is in the GT and GT500 have proven themselves to be at or above the number Ford prints. Problem is that with Chevy, they have several other performance cars. If you were to look at it now, including the Camaro, You would have a 205hp Cobalt SS, a 300hp Monte Carlo SS, a 400ish hp Camaro, and a 505hp Corvette.
Ford. They have a 500hp Mustang and thats it. The Ford GT is over with production. So the Mustang must be a lot of different cars for different segments, and Ford has a bit more free range to go after the Corvette. I personaly dont think that Chevy should make a GT500 fighter. Yeah, it would be good for bragging rights, but they should focus on the Camaro itself, not this top dog shoot out. GT500 is going after the Z06, and it fails to meet the Z51 standards.

[WayFast84]

How about we just bore and stroke an lg4 cam it and port the heads wed kill the fords!!!!!!!

So once again when the camaro comes back fords gonna get off their ass and actually create hp?

they suck with hp(300) and now that the camaro is coming back out their gonna have 500??!! thats ********, I say we get a ls2 bigger cam different heads and go after them na o wait lets just use the ls7 :)

[NJSPEEDER]

the thing that cracks me up about ford's big HP motors is that they all end up in limited production vehicles. GM is willing to make as many as get ordered.

[Ian]

that and ford always resorts to using forced induction to get the big HP numbers

[Tsar]

that and ford always resorts to using forced induction to get the big HP numbers
and whats wrong with that? Boost > N/A :shrug:

[ins0mnia24]

A friend of mine saw the running concept car at the Fbody gathering in Atlanta last May
He told me that the engine in it was a 6.2 Liter 396 i think he said?? Engine.
What are the chance's we could get this 470ish h.p. engine like BigAl mention's??

Also what about the chance's of How GM performance offer's aftermarket upgrade stage's like pulleys and injectors for the cobalt ect... Why couldn't they do that kind of support for the Camaro?
Or any kind of performance support from GM

A guy i work with just bought a Mustang GT before he brought it home he was able to get it upgraded at the dealer with Ford performance headers, stainless exhaust, Roush Intake and a bigger Ford performance T.b. and all of covered under the original warranty .. I just thought that kind of support was pretty cool though i'm sure he got killed with pricing.. But it had me thinking why couldnt GM do something like that

[Tsar]

why? i think its the same reason they made that stupid optispark and placed it under the water pump...cuz they're retarded! :shrug:

[NJSPEEDER]

GM has done parts counter upgrades in the past. many of the cobalt and ion redline upgrades included.
when you get a factory or dealership upgraded vehicle you really have to watch out. chysler corp f'ed over bunches of SRT-4 guys by offering stage kits and installing them, then not honoring the warranty. ford dealerships have been known to do the same with SVT upgraded lightnings.
the final word on if something is warranty work or not comes down to the dealership, and unfortunately most of them seem to be turning into complete dickbags about it.

[enRo]

that and ford always resorts to using forced induction to get the big HP numbers

:stupid: Ford again FTL

[Tsar]

:stupid: Ford again FTL
:willy:

cars that come boosted from the factory are easier to make faster then N/As (doh :laugh: ) look at poopras, cobras, evos, stis, dsms - all can be made alot faster for pretty cheap when compared to N/A cars. any car that comes with a snail or s/c from the factory gets +1 from me.

[BigAls87Z28]

A friend of mine saw the running concept car at the Fbody gathering in Atlanta last May
He told me that the engine in it was a 6.2 Liter 396 i think he said?? Engine.
What are the chance's we could get this 470ish h.p. engine like BigAl mention's??

Also what about the chance's of How GM performance offer's aftermarket upgrade stage's like pulleys and injectors for the cobalt ect... Why couldn't they do that kind of support for the Camaro?
Or any kind of performance support from GM

A guy i work with just bought a Mustang GT before he brought it home he was able to get it upgraded at the dealer with Ford performance headers, stainless exhaust, Roush Intake and a bigger Ford performance T.b. and all of covered under the original warranty .. I just thought that kind of support was pretty cool though i'm sure he got killed with pricing.. But it had me thinking why couldnt GM do something like that

The concept had the LS2 in it making 400hp. The 6.2 is a most deffinate for the Camaro. It depends how much power its going to make. Could be 450hp, could be more, could be less.
As for stage kits, I think its possible that Chevy could offer something for dealer installed aftermarket parts. Most dealers will do that already, depending on the market. That is acutaly how SLP got started. You used to be able to order SLP parts that would be added to your car, and you could just add it to your financing. Ian's old 87 or 88 GTA had a lot of SLP options from the dealer. And lets not forget the special dealers that have helped boost Camaro's performance in the past, Yenko anyone? Nickey, Baldwin-Motion, Berger, all names of dealers that helped up your performance. I dunno if I would want a Pine Belt Camaro....but I could see some factory stuff. They are doing it with the Cobalt SS SC and they offer performance exhaust for a lot of there vehicles, mostly Corsa as Corsa is a GM company.

[Savage_Messiah]

:w00t:

[JL8Jeff]

Hmmm, Ford had the Cobra overrated and owners were running around crying because they were coming up 30-40 hp short on the dyno. The last of the F-body's were rated at 305-310 hp and most of them were putting out 300-305 at the rear wheels! Then Corvette owners were crying. Give GM a shot, they will force Ford to play the real game.

[Ian]

:stupid:

Ant'sWS6 dynoed at 327HP I believe and it was damn near stock with only a lid, K&N and possibly a catback, but with no tuning AFAIK.

[WayFast84]

jakes car is pretty stock to and he was in the 330's hp 340's tq I think

[Savage_Messiah]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14217560/

[Ian]

jakes car is pretty stock to and he was in the 330's hp 340's tq I think

actually I think Jakes car put down 350 tq, but who's counting. jakes car is an 02, they usually made more power then the 2000 and lower years. Plus its an M6 car, there's more power to the wheels right there.

[BigAls87Z28]

The 99 Cobra's were well over rated. Ford said they were making 310 or 320, to match the Fbody numbers. Turns out that when they were doing the testing, they forgot they put on long tube headers, high flow cats, and a totaly different tuning....
But what they lacked in 99, they made up for with teh 03/04 Cobras. Now I dont liek Ford as much as the next Bow Tie man, but those cars are sicccc!!!!11!!!one!

[qwikz28]

why is everyone talking about power ratings? you act like the common person knows about wheel horse power and over and underratings. i tried to explain to my friend that LS1s are the same in a vette and a camaro (for the most part) but he couldnt grasp the concept. he refuses to believe anything other then the fact that a SS makes 15hp more then a Z28 LS1 and the vette makes 40hp more then a Z28.

we know the truth, but we are severely out-numbered. a common person will look at the numbers and believe the Ford and Dodge are far superior, and that might hurt sales. and to be honest i was really hoping for a stock forged motor FI car. the ease of modding on those cars are amazing! bolt-ons that give you an extra 100+ reliable horsepower? the GT500 looks really tempting compared to a 6.2 motor thats only putting out maybe 50hp more then a bolt on LS1.

i passed up a slammin deal on a low mileage LS2 Goat this past weekend in hopes of a 500+ hp 5th gen in the future. i guess its my stupidity to think that GM would try to beat ford

[Tru2Chevy]

Screw the GT500. Yea, it's a 500hp motor. But its in a 3,950ish lb car. The 400 hp vette blew it's doors off. A 3500-3600 lb Camaro with 450hp would be pretty evenly matched with the GT500, and should be several thousand dollars cheaper.

- Justin

[Savage_Messiah]

why is everyone talking about power ratings? you act like the common person knows about wheel horse power and over and underratings. i tried to explain to my friend that LS1s are the same in a vette and a camaro (for the most part) but he couldnt grasp the concept. he refuses to believe anything other then the fact that a SS makes 15hp more then a Z28 LS1 and the vette makes 40hp more then a Z28.

we know the truth, but we are severely out-numbered. a common person will look at the numbers and believe the Ford and Dodge are far superior, and that might hurt sales. and to be honest i was really hoping for a stock forged motor FI car. the ease of modding on those cars are amazing! bolt-ons that give you an extra 100+ reliable horsepower? the GT500 looks really tempting compared to a 6.2 motor thats only putting out maybe 50hp more then a bolt on LS1.

i passed up a slammin deal on a low mileage LS2 Goat this past weekend in hopes of a 500+ hp 5th gen in the future. i guess its my stupidity to think that GM would try to beat ford

when we're talking about GT500s and whatever the top Camaro trim will be, the people that will actualyl buy them either a) will research these things and know them, or b) have too much money to care and just get whatever they think looks better

[qwikz28]

Screw the GT500. Yea, it's a 500hp motor. But its in a 3,950ish lb car. The 400 hp vette blew it's doors off. A 3500-3600 lb Camaro with 450hp would be pretty evenly matched with the GT500, and should be several thousand dollars cheaper.

- Justin
i'll still take a blown forged motor over an aluminum motor. to get big hp numbers anyway your gonna have to spend money and weight to put them in. and, i'll bet kasey's life that the new camaro is more then 3600lb.

you guys are looking at stock vs stock. look at the numbers those guys in the 03/04 cobras are putting down with bolt ons. it makes us LS1 guys look like poo

[Tru2Chevy]

That's because stock for stock is what the masses are going to be looking at. Most people don't buy cars based on their hp potential, they buy them based on their hp and performance numbers as they sit on the showroom floor.

That may not apply to people like us, but we are the minority.

- Justin

[12secondv6]

They are putting the 2.0L neon engine in it!

[Savage_Messiah]

seriously can we put the filter back on for "neon" again???

[Untamed]

That's because stock for stock is what the masses are going to be looking at. Most people don't buy cars based on their hp potential, they buy them based on their hp and performance numbers as they sit on the showroom floor.

That may not apply to people like us, but we are the minority.

- Justin

I think most people buy cars for:

1) Combination of looks and advertised power
2) Loyalty to whichever manufacturer they like
3) Good ratio of style, comfort and practicality
4) And of course, price

Whatever has all of that in abundance will get the sales.

[qwikz28]

That's because stock for stock is what the masses are going to be looking at. Most people don't buy cars based on their hp potential, they buy them based on their hp and performance numbers as they sit on the showroom floor.

That may not apply to people like us, but we are the minority.

- Justin
i dont know, i just feel like ford has the mainstream, and the modified markets down better with their lineup. who the hell wants a 5.3? i sure as hell dont

[88jerseyiroc]

What i feel basically what it comes down to it is, Are you a Ford Man, Chevy Man or a Mopar Man?? Numbers arent going to mean nothing in this battle, Like the battle they had back in the 60's-70's. Hopefully they are going to get loyal chevy customers back into the camaro since the Vette is out of reach for most chevy muscle car fans. I hope the Firebird isnt far behind the Camaro either.

[V]

I think most people buy cars for:

1) Combination of looks and advertised power
2) Loyalty to whichever manufacturer they like
3) Good ratio of style, comfort and practicality
4) And of course, price


AND 5) i think a big part of the camaro sales will be due to nostalgia, all the guys who used to own a camaro in the past and now can afford one again

[qwikz28]

What i feel basically what it comes down to it is, Are you a Ford Man, Chevy Man or a Mopar Man?? Numbers arent going to mean nothing in this battle, Like the battle they had back in the 60's-70's. Hopefully they are going to get loyal chevy customers back into the camaro since the Vette is out of reach for most chevy muscle car fans. I hope the Firebird isnt far behind the Camaro either.
no thats garbage nowadays. people go for the better car nowadays. brand loyalty is rare unless you are diehard. many of the guys on LS1tech that are still floating around have gone over to ford. at least three mods have mustangs now

[V]

maybe its just me, but i would consider a 5.3l perhaps, with the price of gas, that make make a good advertising angle. plus there are already companies boosting teh 5.3 in the 99-04 trucks with good results. However, if i was going to drop the money for a 5th gen, i would want the highest optioned and biggest motor. lol

[qwikz28]

However, if i was going to drop the money for a 5th gen, i would want the highest optioned and biggest motor. lol
well put, forget the 5.3

[JL8Jeff]

no thats garbage nowadays. people go for the better car nowadays. brand loyalty is rare unless you are diehard. many of the guys on LS1tech that are still floating around have gone over to ford. at least three mods have mustangs now

Brand loyalty is still a huge factor. Look at the 6 cyl Mustangs on the road. I know a couple of people who have gone between GM or Ford but most people stay pretty darn loyal.

[WayFast84]

you guys got it all wrong.

It doesnt matter about brand loyaltie, trims and motors. GM has to make a good reliable car that can compete against the mustang,350x and other cars. Its not about whos loyal to what, Like justin said we are the minoraty, In order for the camaro to come out and stay out and possibly bring back the trans is going to be.

1.Price
2.Marketing
3. V6
4. Hp/tq

Remember the gto movie that came out when the re introduced the gto? well look at the gto now! Gm has to do more marketing for it to be succsessfull.

Look at all the ricers out their today, their needs to be some racing movies, with the camaro kicking ass. then all teh ricers will be like "ohh snap american muscle"

Like I said before we need the LG4!!

[qwikz28]

Brand loyalty is still a huge factor. Look at the 6 cyl Mustangs on the road. I know a couple of people who have gone between GM or Ford but most people stay pretty darn loyal.
your definately right jeff, what i really meant to say is that brand loyalty isnt as big of a factor as it was before. most kids these days start out with hondas and toyolas anyway so they arent loyal to anything. im sure some of us GM people feel betrayed as well with some of GMs recent moves. I, for one, will not stand for Ford having a faster pony car then Chevy. thats ridiculous.

[firehawk1120]

Al, do you ever make a point without typing a friggin thesis paper???

[WayFast84]

your definately right jeff, what i really meant to say is that brand loyalty isnt as big of a factor as it was before. most kids these days start out with hondas and toyolas anyway so they arent loyal to anything. im sure some of us GM people feel betrayed as well with some of GMs recent moves. I, for one, will not stand for Ford having a faster pony car then Chevy. thats ridiculous.

Ford was faster in the early 80's to.

[Tru2Chevy]

Ford was faster in the early 80's to.

It was either 83 or 84 that the Mustang had more power than the F-body. It was only one year though....

- Justin

[WayFast84]

It was either 83 or 84 that the Mustang had more power than the F-body. It was only one year though....

- Justin
:werd: it was 84 if i remember correctly

[enRo]

If the new camaro in fact comes with a 5.3 as a lesser v8 model to the LS2 ... i think the V6 would get more buys. The only ppl I see buying those 5.3's are the people who wanna drive vettes, but cant afford the extra penny, so they go around ranting that they got a V8 camaro :lol:

[qwikz28]

If the new camaro in fact comes with a 5.3 as a lesser v8 model to the LS2 ... i think the V6 would get more buys. The only ppl I see buying those 5.3's are the people who wanna drive vettes, but cant afford the extra penny, so they go around ranting that they got a V8 camaro :lol:
those people that will buy the 5.3 will be the same group of people currently buying the mustang GT. the 6.2 will cost alot alot

[BigAls87Z28]

The 5.3 is a great option for people who dont want a 400hp V8 engine car due to whatever reason. Enthuisasts will always buy the top performance model. Any regular person buying the top performance model bought it because they heard about how "cool" it is. The V8 segment is ruled by enthuisasts, not average people. Someone who might want a V8 Camaro, but migh tnot have the cash to spend for a 30-35kk 400ish hp Camaro, or the means to insure the thing, might get 80% of the performance and thrill out of a mid range 300-350hp V8 engine.
Look at generations past. The RS model gave you a V8 engine, and some style that made it look more like the higher end models, something with some flair. In the 4th gens, there was no mid range. It was a 200hp V6 that was in a base model interior, or you had to pop north of 27k for a 325hp V8 version. Not EVERYONE wants a 500hp Camaro.
As for the 6.2 costing a lot, yeah performance is gunna cost you!! I dunno if you checked out that sticker on the GT500, but you cant touch one with out 50 large. And it cant even out-perform a base C6 Corvette, lets not compare how it would just be slaughterd against the Z06. Hell, the Z06 beats the Ford GT, so no way in the world was that hunk of cheap **** Mustang gunna be able to keep up with the Z06.

The biggest thing Camaro has going for itself is its a better complete package. Where Ford cheaped out with solid axle and cheap interior matierals along with using a truck V6 and transmission, Camaro's base will come from the Sigma-Chassis, a very well put together fully independent suspension, equiped with higher end materials and better quality. And as for peformance, Chevy will always be there.
Now, I never said that the 6.2 will be the top. Bob Lutz himself said that if things get squirly, that the LS7 is ready to go up higher in performance, which has been seen by a handful of tuners that have tinkered with just a touch bigger cam and tuning, putting it into the 600hp range.
Could Chevy build a 500hp GT500 chaser? Im sure they could, and It would probably be faster, but why? Why chase after the Mustang that clearly is more hype then anything else? Chevy should worry about the core sales first, get things back up to speed. Then, start to really lay into the Mustang and others in the segment.

[Tru2Chevy]

In the 4th gens, there was no mid range. It was a 200hp V6 that was in a base model interior, or you had to pop north of 27k for a 325hp V8 version.

[Devil's Advocate]

Actually, in 2002 you could get a Z28 for right around $22,500.

[/Devil's Advocate]

- Justin

[V]

my ss cost me 28.9k, and that had 9k of options.

[BigAls87Z28]

Point is, there was nothing that GM offerd in the middle. But Ford id with its 260hp Mustang GT. It had enough power to move you some what, but didnt overpower the average owner.
Im not gunna get into my I-Hate-4th-Gen Rant, but there are 1000 things the 4th gen did wrong.

[firehawk1120]

The only thing the 4th gen did wrong was stop making them. They had power and style, well the Pontiacs did I thought the 4th gen Camaro was kinda bland.

The engine responds well to minor mods, and it's strong enough to handle increased power. I have no complaints about my 4th gen Hawk all for around 30K including the 6k in SLP options. Otherwise it would have been a 24k can of whoop ass on any slowstang.

[LS1Hawk]

Weren't the last Formulas and the base Trans Ams both rated at 310hp? Then you had the WS6 at 325 and the Firehawk at 345. Before they started making all these 400+ hp cars, I would say that was some pretty decent variety. And you could get a Formula in the low 20s.

[BigAls87Z28]

Thats great, but the 4th gen no longer was a pony car, but a 4 seater sports car. The functionality of the car fell off, and it was all about big hp, and less functionality. Yes, they were great performance machines, but as something to live with daily?

[qwikz28]

Thats great, but the 4th gen no longer was a pony car, but a 4 seater sports car. The functionality of the car fell off, and it was all about big hp, and less functionality. Yes, they were great performance machines, but as something to live with daily?
i did it just fine for 4 years, only thing that sucked was getting stuck in the snow on the way to an exam

[12secondv6]

seriously can we put the filter back on for "neon" again???
SUCK IT fidget!

[Untamed]

I don't race and I don't have deep pockets for gas. If the v6 has 250-300hp, thats great in my book. Better insurance, better gas milage, good looks, good performance, and its a Camaro. :shrug: The new Camaro to me isn't an investment, its everyday fun driving.

[qwikz28]

its thursday.... any news?

[WayFast84]

its thursday.... any news?
yeah their ditching the camaro for the trans am :rofl:




no seriously any news? :scratch:

[slasherbarb]

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewpressreldetail.do?domain=2&docid=27934

got this off of camaroz28.com....it's back!!!!

[BigAls87Z28]

Production will start late 08, on sale early 09.

[qwikz28]

the more i think about it, the more appealing a lower priced 5.3 V8 sounds. you think they'll give us a 1LE?

[jims69camaro]

watch out when ford claims an HP number. their cars never measure up to the claims their marketing department makes.
there was an article in hot rod a few years ago i shoudl try to dig up. they did dyno pulls on a bunch of production performance cars and compared the numbers at the wheels to the numbers advertised. GM was the closest, the dodges were right behind, and the fords were way the hell off.

just read that the LS2 was underrated because of the correction factor they use on the dynos. the actual number was higher (based on 77 degrees and 60 degrees fahrenheit). guess it all depends on what the weather is like today. most cars in our area probably run in weather most like 77 degrees than 60 degrees (i would think, anyway).

anyway, in case the update wasn't posted: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006608110321

[Savage_Messiah]

Thats great, but the 4th gen no longer was a pony car, but a 4 seater sports car. The functionality of the car fell off, and it was all about big hp, and less functionality. Yes, they were great performance machines, but as something to live with daily?
4th gens are no problem to live wih daily....

[Tsar]

4th gens are no problem to live wih daily....
:werd: seems ok to me

[BigAls87Z28]

Its easier to drive Mustang GT then an Fbody. Better visability, quazi better ergonomics.

[Savage_Messiah]

ergonomics?? have you SEEN where the shifter is in any pre-05 mustang

[BigAls87Z28]

Yes I have, but I have sat in a Mustang, and I have sat in a 4th gen. 4th gens sit waaaaay too low, the dash is at eye level, and matches the very long hood. The rear hatch glass distorts rear view vision as well as big blind spots.
This is all ok and acceptable for a sports car, not ok for someone who wants a sporty car, but not someone who wants a sporty Pony car. Thirdgen started the low seating, 4th gens made it worse with a lower raked windshield

[Tsar]

Yes I have, but I have sat in a Mustang, and I have sat in a 4th gen. 4th gens sit waaaaay too low, the dash is at eye level, and matches the very long hood. The rear hatch glass distorts rear view vision as well as big blind spots.
This is all ok and acceptable for a sports car, not ok for someone who wants a sporty car, but not someone who wants a sporty Pony car. Thirdgen started the low seating, 4th gens made it worse with a lower raked windshield
i like the low seating thing, if it wasnt for that i would feel like i was driving an SUV. as far as blind spots go...ehh u get used to them, you can always turn your head and look.

[BonzoHansen]

i like the low seating thing, if it wasnt for that i would feel like i was driving an SUV. as far as blind spots go...ehh u get used to them, you can always turn your head and look.It is the too low, waaaaayyy too big doors, dopey hatch window and too long nose that turned off most female buyers. GM effectively killed 1/2 the target market. That is one big reason why otherwise lesser Mustangs outsold 4th gens, and never stopped being made.

This would sit well with me:

*Base V6 + A4/M5, live axle, available 5.3L + a6/m6; 16"std/17" opt wheels
*SS gets LSx & live axle a6/m6. Big brakes , 17" std/18" optional
*Z28 gets LSx and IRS. m6 only. Big brakes, 18" hoops std.
*HYBRID OPTION!!!!!! Snap!

They can screw around with RS options too, if they must. That should have nothing to do with engine/trans - RS = trim option. Stripper available on request (no AC, PL, PW, radio, etc).

Any word on a rag top? Or dumb old t-tops?

[qwikz28]

It is the too low, waaaaayyy too big doors, dopey hatch window and too long nose that turned off most female buyers. GM effectively killed 1/2 the target market. That is one big reason why otherwise lesser Mustangs outsold 4th gens, and never stopped being made.

This would sit well with me:

*Base V6 + A4/M5, live axle, available 5.3L + a6/m6; 16"std/17" opt wheels
*SS gets LSx & live axle a6/m6. Big brakes , 17" std/18" optional
*Z28 gets LSx and IRS. m6 only. Big brakes, 18" hoops std.
*HYBRID OPTION!!!!!! Snap!

They can screw around with RS options too, if they must. That should have nothing to do with engine/trans - RS = trim option. Stripper available on request (no AC, PL, PW, radio, etc).

Any word on a rag top? Or dumb old t-tops?
im with you 100%... only i'm all t-topped out. i want a ragtop

[BigAls87Z28]

All cars will come with either a 5spd or 6spd auto, and all with a 6spd manual.
All cars will have IRS. Too expensive to build in a live rear axle set up off a chassis designed for IRS.
I highly doubt that there will be a stripper option with no power windows, locks, ac as this will be engineerd into the car prior because the Camaro will share the chassis and subcomponents. It would cost more to engineer manual windows and door locks, as well as a cut off system for the AC into the car.
The ttop question was the first to come up at Detroit, and when we saw the roof top, we said it lookd very similar to the Corvette. If its very narrow in profile, It could be just a targa top style roof. What I brought up to one guy is that maybe the back seat can fold down and the top could latch into the back seat, like the Avalanch has with the window that pops into the seats. I just dont know if the back seat is big enough for the roof pannel.

[BonzoHansen]

I am under the impression the IRS is a 'bolt-in' sub-assembly. If so, they could do a bolt in live axle setup, which would be cheaper to build than the IRS. I won't believe they can do an IRS and complete on a cost basis until I see it with my own eyes.

[qwikz28]

I am under the impression the IRS is a 'bolt-in' sub-assembly. If so, they could do a bolt in live axle setup, which would be cheaper to build than the IRS. I won't believe they can do an IRS and complete on a cost basis until I see it with my own eyes.
thunder racing did a live rear with the CTS-V... its only time that someone does it with camaro. rag-top is a definate right?

[BigAls87Z28]

Then can because evey car off that chassis will have it. Economies of scale FTW. It would be more expensive to design, engineer, test, and certify a "bolt in" rear end that GM has to green light and warranty 100%, which would only make it more expensive.
Ford, on the otherhand, took an already paid for chassis, and ripped it apart, stripping everything. The cost savings per car for teh Mustang is about 300 dollars. The Camaro will come in at the right price point. Look at the LX cars. Full independent suspension front and rear, V6 and V8 engines, high tech gadgets....and they start at 23k.
It can be done, adn will be.

[Tru2Chevy]

thunder racing did a live rear with the CTS-V... its only time that someone does it with camaro. rag-top is a definate right?

Well, Madman did it, and Thunder is selling it....

And Al, going back to page 3....I have driven 4th gens and SN-95 Mustangs, and 4th FTW when it comes to ergonomics. Visibility is better (even with the top down on Kare's car), I can actually climb in and out of a 4th gen without smacking my leg on the steering wheel, mustang door handle is hidden behind my knee, and the lower seat bolsters in the Mustang dig into the side of my leg and are kind of a pain on long trips.

Maybe things are different for little people, but not for anyone over 6'

- Justin

[BonzoHansen]

'Stangs are tight for normal sized people.

[BigAls87Z28]

Im 6'1, and have sat in several. Ive also sat in several Fbodies, but guess who matters when it comes to the mass-produced cars.
Women. Not all women, but most girls who get them for high school and such liek the Mustang because its someone easy to drive. Fbody...its tough.

[Tru2Chevy]

Yea, I know. Kare fits fine in her car, and the only visibility issue she has is with the hood scoop blocking a bit of her vision over the right front. I on the otherhand, can't see crap out of her car. But she's 5'4", and I'm 6'4".....

- Justin

[NLinnear]

thunder racing did a live rear with the CTS-V... its only time that someone does it with camaro. rag-top is a definate right?

If I am looking at the same thing, Madman and TR designed and built an IRS unit, not a solid rear.

[qwikz28]

If I am looking at the same thing, Madman and TR designed and built an IRS unit, not a solid rear.
yeah... madman did the IRS unit out of a ford 9". someone else did a solid rear swap and i thought it was thunder racing but it wasnt.