One last time before install: cam shaft [Archive] - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

WayFast84

08-07-2006, 11:43 PM

Well Ive been hearing things like My cam ir real small and what not, well I got the specs of my cam and here they are..
am lift valve lift
int
.2847
exh
.3027
int
.427
exh
.454

adv dur
260 int
272 exh

lobe ctrs
int 107
exh 117

lash hot
int
.000
exh
.000

.050 dur
204 int 216 exh

.050 dur
btc
(5)
abc
29
bbc
45
atc
(9)
adv timing
btc abc bbc atc

Is it even worth installing into my 305? Should I go to a local speed shop and spend the money for a new one and then return this to jegs with my nitrous?

I want a cam thats compatible with my stock valve springs but still gives me a BIG gain.

I also have a wiand action plus intake if that helps..

Matt

r0nin89

08-08-2006, 01:09 AM

Get a 350. I was gonna do the whole 305 rare engine thing til I realised that for 4grand you can build a 450-500hp roots blown 350 for the same price as making a 305 300hp. Plus still get 13-15mpg.

Pampered-Z

08-08-2006, 07:37 AM

How did you decide on that cam?

My opinion is that you’re only wasting your time. A cam with that duration/lift and LSA is not going to make any power down low, you'll need to spin the motor over 6500 RPMs to see any real power and the 305 with it's small bores and stock heads/valves are way too restricted to flow any air that high, plus without beefing up your valve train and bottom end your just asking for a catastrophic failure!

For a 305 you'd be better off with a cam with less duration that will give you more power and torque below 5500 RPMs so that it better matches the air the engine can move. Your might be better off installing a stock LT1 cam in the car or something like the 2030 comp cam. You won't make big power, but unless it's some specialty build your not going to with a 305. IF you plan to race and the C.I.s are not limited build a 350.

If you want to make big power you really need to go with a 350 motor which has all the advantages: Bigger bore, better flowing heads, larger intake and exhaust ports and valves so a 350 will yield far more HP and Torque then a 305 with the same mods and for the same price!

You can spend $2000 on a decent heads/cam/header package on a 305 engine and maybe make 325 HP, put those same parts on a 350 engine and you'll be closer to 400 HP!

My .02

Tru2Chevy

08-08-2006, 08:21 AM

I don't see why you shouldn't stab that cam in. It is a relatively small cam (.427/.454, 204/216). A '96 LT1 cam specs out as (.447/.459, 205/207).

Should be fine with your mild 305. You won't see huge gains, but it will pick up a little bit of power, and you'll learn something in the process.

Now, you mentioned that you want this to work with your stock valve springs. I'm saying bad idea. Yea it's not a radical cam, but you have stock 22 year old springs on your motor with close to 100k miles on them. Installing a fresh cam and lifter set (you do have new lifters for it, right?) isn't the best thing for stock springs.

- Justin

WayFast84

08-08-2006, 08:25 AM

Tru2Chevy

08-08-2006, 08:28 AM

Well then id need help, because I dont think Id have the knowledge to do valve springs, and really dont want to mess something like that up. What springs would be good for a little more mild cam?

The ones that come with the cam kit that you could (should) have bought. Just check the cam manufacturer's web site and look up the cam that you have. Then check to see what springs they recommend. Valve springs aren't tough, but it's good to have a helping hand. I swapped mine before I installed my heads, so it was pretty simple.

- Justin

WayFast84

08-08-2006, 08:32 AM

what would I have to do to swap it out? How much would a mechanic charge to do JUST that with the valve covers allready off?

Tru2Chevy

08-08-2006, 08:36 AM

what would I have to do to swap it out? How much would a mechanic charge to do JUST that with the valve covers allready off?

You would need a way to keep the valves from dropping into the cyl. as you swap the springs on each one (usually people get a fitting for their air compressor that screws into the spark plug socket, and the air pressure holds the valve up), and you would need a tool to compress the springs.

Not sure what a mechanic would charge, but why bother when you would be paying for a tow to his shop and back as well. That would cost more than the tools you need to do the swap.

- Justin

WayFast84

08-08-2006, 08:37 AM

I dont feel comfortable with it, but ill look into it maybe Ill just get new heads instead lol

project89

08-08-2006, 11:18 AM

wayfast if u have an aircomprssor u need abouta 40$ tool to chaneg the springs urself,i actually may have the right tool that i could lend u if u like.its simple u screw the fitting in to the plug hole,plug the air line on.the tool goes over the rocker studand u pull on it it compresses the valve spring.u just pull ou tthe locks and release the tool and the retainer/valve spring come off.to get it back on u place the new spring and reatiner over the valve stem.pull down on the handle till it compresses far enough for u to put the 2 locks back in and relase the handle

WayFast84

08-08-2006, 11:21 AM

I think ill just get new heads, for the money for the air compressor, the springs and everything it would be worth it. vortecs here i come...

Pampered-Z

08-08-2006, 01:34 PM

I don't see why you shouldn't stab that cam in. It is a relatively small cam (.427/.454, 204/216). A '96 LT1 cam specs out as (.447/.459, 205/207).

- Justin

I looked at the 260/270 duration and thought 6600 RPM?

WayFast84

08-08-2006, 02:02 PM

so the cam is up to high in the rpm's? If I did get another cam, do you think I should chance it on the stock valve springs? i really dont want to buy more parts for her but I guess I could buy another cam cause their pretty in expensive and Ill just return mine with nitrous.

bad64chevelle

08-08-2006, 03:42 PM

I wouldnt chance anything on those springs. keeping stock springs is a really bad idea. If you stick a cam in there change the springs, its added insurance. I am another vote for ditching the 305 and getting a cheap 350 go work on. My dad has a 305 in his 35 chevy pickup thats got a small cam, a little head work, headers, 4barrel, aluminum intake manifold, and a few other things and it moves okay, but only because the truck weighs most likely only about 2700 lbs. I would hate for you to spend all this time and money on a similar problem and switching over to a 350 later on down the road. My best advice for you is to keep this 305 the way it is, drive it, save up money for a decent engine/trans down the road and you will have saved money, and learned alot more in the long run.

project89

08-08-2006, 06:37 PM

WayFast84

08-08-2006, 11:29 PM

everyone ha sbeen telling him this for the longest time lol.if he wanted i could get him a running 350 for about 200$'s

BAM!!! where at!? :lol:

WayFast84

08-09-2006, 12:18 AM

Where can I pick up information on how to get matched parts ? or how to match parts?

Tru2Chevy

08-09-2006, 09:01 AM

Where can I pick up information on how to get matched parts ? or how to match parts?

That just comes with experience. Unless you buy a package deal that the manufacturer sells together, you will have to match up your parts yourself. While you are learning, you should ask around here before purchasing anything.

- Justin

project89

08-09-2006, 10:42 AM

matt my suggestion for u at this time is to get a 350 shortblock,and save up for a holley systemmax setup,or an eldelbrock package,both are very good and come with all the matched parts and are pretty cheap, u ouwld pay more then if u pieced it together urself,but all the parts are matched to work togther.
also trickflow makes some nice sbc topend kits ranging from 300-500 hp from 1,200-1,700 $'s

WayFast84

08-09-2006, 10:58 AM

well on chevy high perforamnce they have top y hot engine combos, they have a 355 making 409 hp with vortec heads and a cam. now I want that set up but it gives different options on parts and stuff.

project89

08-09-2006, 11:23 AM

matt u need to stop reading all those dam magazines,some of them are good,alot just spew out bs.for somone with ur knowledge level buying a complete kit is best for right now until u learn more,its cheap it works the way its supposed to there arent any problems.think for a sec 1,700 for 500 hp gets u brand new heads,cam/lifters/rockers/manifold,wereas u would have to buy a set of vortecs get them machined etc,buy new springs pushrods rockers and all the rest of that ****,ur still down to matching parts

Tsar

08-09-2006, 11:25 AM

magazines :lol:

Pampered-Z

08-09-2006, 11:46 AM

Where can I pick up information on how to get matched parts ? or how to match parts?

Matt, you've just asked what I think is the most complicated questions about probably the most misunderstood part of an engine.

Good questions, should have asked last night it would have taken up the entire dinner conversation! There is far too much information to put into this message.

What I would strongly suggest you do is to stop trying to mod your engine right now, wait at least a few weeks until you have properly research this. It took me almost of month of compairing cams before I narrowed it down to 4, then two, eventually I had a custom grind made based on what I thought was best for me, and after many phone calls to engine builders and Cam manufactors. Cam selection IS THAT IMPORTANT!

I would also strongly suggest your first step is to buy a book about building small block Chevy engines, One of my favorite books is about Cams and Valve trains by Graham Hanen. It’s under $20 and contains information you’ll be able to reference the rest of your life!

well on Chevy high performance they have top y hot engine combos, they have a 355 making 409 hp with vortec heads and a cam. now I want that set up but it gives different options on parts and stuff.

As others have already stated, magazines are good to look at, but their articles are for the most part to sell advertiser’s products. You are not going to get all the information you need. Plus, that 355 is completely difference they your 305. Again, first read the book I suggested above, once you understand a cam shaft’s profile = lobe design, lift, duration and separation and engine/head flow characteristics then you’ll be able to better understand what it is you need to be looking for.

I’m not trying to blow~off your question, but until you can better understand all the pieces that interact in the valve train all of our suggestions are not going to either help you or make any sense.

Next dinner we’re at I’ll be more then happy to discuss cam profile and valve trains with you. But I’ll wear out my fingers typing before I get you the info you really need.

John B.

WayFast84

08-09-2006, 02:17 PM

allright. But Ill still look for a 350 now. when it comes to smogger motors what is the most restrictive thing on the engine. the one thats holding all the hp back

project89

08-09-2006, 03:16 PM

a smogger motor is a smoog motor/some have decent heads but intakes/cams/low cr hurt them

WayFast84

08-09-2006, 03:25 PM

so I can get a motor thats smogged, put a action plus intake, cam it and it can be a decent street motor?

WildBillyT

08-09-2006, 03:45 PM

so I can get a motor thats smogged, put a action plus intake, cam it and it can be a decent street motor?

Yes.

If I were you, I wouldn't spend a dime on your 305 and find yourself a 350. There are plenty of them out there. You may even luck out and find a 400 out of a caprice or other large car. Then it's REALLY game on.

WayFast84

08-09-2006, 04:44 PM

all right I got my headers un attached from the y pipe and the block I got the drivers side out, but I cant get the passanger side out.

project89

08-09-2006, 05:12 PM

matt one more word of advice.dont start disconecting stuff till u have a new motor to go in.

WayFast84

08-09-2006, 05:31 PM

matt one more word of advice.dont start disconecting stuff till u have a new motor to go in.
It doesnt matter cause I gotta paint the engine bay any way. how much hp would a cam only L98 have around?

Pampered-Z

08-09-2006, 05:37 PM

so I can get a motor thats smogged, put a action plus intake, cam it and it can be a decent street motor?

UGGGG!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: Matt, LISTEN TO ME!!! Your getting ahead of yourself again! READ UP FIRST. What do you want, just to say you have 400HP? Can you tell me why the Action Plus is the right intake for your engine?

To answer your question, you are only partially right, but not 100%

For the most part a smog motor is nothing more then a standard short block, flat top piston motor, with a cam designed to reduce emmisions and heads with big chambers to reduce compression, this would relate to a carbed or TBI motor.

In the late 80s with fuel injection and TPI the builders were able to better control the Air/Fuel ratios so heads with smaller chambers could be used to increase compression and gain HP, but these heads still retained smaller valves and ports then an aftermarket/high performance head.

Putting in a cam and intake will only give you some gains, if you want real gains you'll need to look at the entire engine, and again you need to decide first what you want to end up with before you can begin

......................

Let's start over. What do you want your car to do? Street cruiser/ occasional strip. Street/strip 50/50 Strip with occasional street?

AND WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING TO DO WITH THE CAR??? :mad:

WayFast84

08-09-2006, 05:43 PM

street strip, more street then strip

project89

08-09-2006, 05:51 PM

wayfast if u can find a flattop shortblock my uncle has those bowtie heads/victor jr intake/and holley 750 carb for 400$'s. would deff be a nice street/weekend warrior setup.
u would have to change the valve springs and get a matyching cam to put it all together,

WayFast84

08-09-2006, 06:06 PM

WildBillyT

08-09-2006, 06:08 PM

where can I gte a flat top short block> and could yah help me with a matching cam?

You may be able to get one already prebuilt from your local machine shop.

project89

08-09-2006, 06:38 PM

well if u want brand new shortblock i have one,well sorta its a bare machined block.with crank and rsized shotpeened rods with arp wavelock bolts.ill get rid of cheap.u would have to buy pistions and the bearings to assemble it.about 200$'s
but u can get a shortblock from anywere,junkyard classifieds etc.though buying a used shortblock i would recomend installing new bearings and rings anyway if the bores check out

WayFast84

08-09-2006, 07:20 PM

how much for the block? and how much would it cost to get everything installed?

project89

08-09-2006, 07:38 PM

ill take 500$ for the block/crank/rods,and when u buy the pistions/bearings ill even assemble the shortblock for u
500 may seem much but the block has been cleaned/checked bored and honed .030 over,and painted, and its a 4 bolt main/the crank is perfect 0/0 stock size journals not a mark on them/and the rods have been resized fluxed and shotpeened,and have arp weavelocks installed
ill even throwe in the right flywheel/dizzy and other compnents i have laying around to go with it

WayFast84

08-09-2006, 07:44 PM

Ill tell you what, when My mom gets home I will talk to her about it, and if she says yes, Id want to pay for forged pistons, a cam, and your uncles intake/heads/carb all together and installed so id have the peace of mind its done right.

edit

will you still trade for the nitrous?

project89

08-09-2006, 07:46 PM

WayFast84

08-09-2006, 07:47 PM

ill assemble the whole thing for u if u like,dont forget u will still need a cam/valve springs,and a gasket set.
i will trade for nitrous but cash/nitrous ill knock it down to 250$ with the nitrous kit
fair enough?
knock what down to 250?

I have the gasket set so really id need to buy pistons cam/valve springs

project89

08-09-2006, 07:52 PM

the block/crank/rods/+the other odds and ends i have +getting it assembled for free
250 and the nitrous kit and u have a deal if u think thats fair

project89

08-09-2006, 07:53 PM

the heads and stuff arent mine so i cant cut u a deal on those and for 400$'s ur already getting a deal anda half on them

WayFast84

08-09-2006, 08:02 PM

the block/crank/rods/+the other odds and ends i have +getting it assembled for free
250 and the nitrous kit and u have a deal if u think thats fair

Ok so Ill need part numbers for forged pistons and a matched cam/valve springs

Thanks alot, and if you would also be intrested in a action plus intake I wont need it if I get the head/intake/carb

project89

08-10-2006, 08:57 PM

wayfast before i sell u or assemble anything for u.im gonna need ur parents to sign a waiver,after talking with a few ppl this may be a very bad idea to give somone ur age a motor that can/will make alot of power .god forbid i build this thing for u and crash it,i am liable for building the engine and can be sued by ur parrents

WayFast84

08-10-2006, 10:51 PM

well how much power will it have, and what numbers would it run in the 1/4th?

thats no problem btw

project89

08-11-2006, 08:37 AM

depends on a few things,i need to get some info from u before i can match up any parts.im at workj now but ill be oon later tonight to get the info from u so i can start looking stuff up and give u the parts numbers/total cost

WayFast84

08-11-2006, 11:33 AM

allright I DONT want a ten second motor just yet(doesnt want a cage), Ill take a low 12 or high 11's though ;)

WayFast84

08-11-2006, 03:16 PM

o yeah, Ill be returning my nitrous and my cam, because I realized how much I paid for the camshaft.. so it would make sence to return them both.

project89

08-11-2006, 07:35 PM

wayfast the heads were on an old 355 in a 3,400# car and was going high 10's low low 11's,but that was with 11.0-1 cr ratio and a massive cam.

for u i figure it best to keep the cr to 9.0-9.5-1 and a cam around 224/234@50 .520/.510.to let this thing have nice street manners and to keep the power level down.u by no means need forged pistions,alls u have to get are hyperetic,

from summit for a whole engine kit flattop or dome pistions/w rings , bearings,oil pump,freeze plugs,full engine gasket set is ;about 300,if the cam dosent go any larger then what i posted above the springs on the heads are fine,and ur looking at 100$'s for a cam.
what were the specs on the cam u have now?

WayFast84

08-11-2006, 10:10 PM

So what do you think it would run with that compresion ratio?

I also got a action plus intake, thats been installed on my car but never actualy ran.

Heres the specs
.2847
exh
.3027
int
.427
exh
.454

adv dur
260 int
272 exh

lobe ctrs
int 107
exh 117

lash hot
int
.000
exh
.000

.050 dur
204 int 216 exh

.050 dur
btc
(5)
abc
29
bbc
45
atc
(9)
adv timing
btc abc bbc atc

project89

08-11-2006, 10:18 PM

that cam is to small.also that m,anifold will not fit these heads,u have to use the victor jr manifold thats comming with them(they are raised port heads so ur typical manifold will not fit them),generally u get about 20-30 hp per pt of cr u go up,the cam is gonna have alot to do with this engine also.
which ever cam goes in the motor is gonna determine the cr ratio.i need to know what gear ratio u have in the rear,and do u still have a stock converter

WayFast84

08-11-2006, 10:28 PM

I have the stock converter but will get a new one if you feel its important

I have 3.08 but dont worry about that because I will be switching to posi and what ever gear you recomend ;)

I trust you and your judgement

project89

08-11-2006, 10:34 PM

hmmm 3.08's arent real good but it could be worse.lemme see what i come up with for a cam and then ill let y aknow better on converter and gears,problem is this intake wont make much tq down low,and installing a larger cam just makes that even worse.im gonna find something that will let u use what u have for now,till u can upgrade the rear/converter,then u can swap the cam to something larger down the road,when ur ready for more power

WayFast84

08-11-2006, 10:38 PM

I dont want to be a dick but id rather have the larger cam in now.

Its cheaper plus a cam install is a bitch, I know everyones like your 14 and you cant handle the power, and youll do something stupid.

Well I probably will, but not till Im in my 20's..

Im like that I dont **** up because Im scared to, and scared of what ill loose, then when I do screw up, I learn from it and get more comfortable and dont do it again.

project89

08-11-2006, 11:38 PM

its not that,if u dont have the right converter/gears driveability will suffer with a large cam.it wont cruise right/will lack power etc

WayFast84

08-11-2006, 11:39 PM

well It depends what gears, converter I have no problem with because Its easier with the motor out, as long as their not 4.10's I can get gears for christmas, and the car will only see the street about 6 times between now and then.

WayFast84

08-11-2006, 11:40 PM

Idk if its just me but, Id rather do it the right way the first time...

project89

08-11-2006, 11:47 PM

im not talking im gonna give u some small ass cam,but its not gonna be an all out power cam either,im trying to keep the motor nice and civil for u,not to mention cheap.

WayFast84

08-11-2006, 11:59 PM

Ok I just dont want to go and spend money now, and then 3 years later have to spend another 300 bucks on a cam. Ive done that before with my headers I ended up wasting 500 bucks...

Like I said Im not trying to make it seem like I want the most power I can get, I just would like to get everything done with the engine now so I dont buy more mods..

forget about cost, it would be more expensive to buy a cam now then a stall then gears then 2 years from now get new of those parts

NJSPEEDER

08-13-2006, 06:27 PM

you have the cam already and you have already started taking the engine apart for the install. jsut stab the thing in there. it is tons better than stock and will make nice power.

WayFast84

08-13-2006, 06:35 PM

you have the cam already and you have already started taking the engine apart for the install. jsut stab the thing in there. it is tons better than stock and will make nice power.

But Im thinking out side the box, if it was me a year ago i would do it but heres where I stand

The parts I will be returning will get me Half of what dave said it would be around on aim, Parts that ill be returning wont be a waste of money, I will have a rebuilt engine about 2 1/4 times better then stock.

heres where it gets tricky.

i will have to install the motor my self, and figure out how to get her runing I will most likely need a new distributer and deffinatly a tc lock up.

so heres my question

Do I spend a couple hundred(after returning parts) for a nice motor, or stick with the lg4.