LS1 Cam/Valvespring install progress

[V]

well, i finally got the time to start on installing some parts on my motor.
I started with the PRC dual spring valvesprings. Since all the rocker arms were off already, i just pulled the plugs to relieve the pressure as i turned the crank to TDC for each cylinder. I am using a piston stop tool to find when each cylinder is at TDC so that way the valve wont drop in too far. Tonight i did cylinders 1 and 3. Tomorrow i'll finish the rest. And the rockers going on are rebuilt stockers with the harland sharp bearings.

As for the Cam, i never got the tools to hold the lifters, so i'm just gonna flip the engine upside down and swap it then. That way the lifters will not fall down, and they cant fall up. And while its all apart, i got a ported LS6 oil pump to put in and ARP rod bolts.

Heres what the new springs(left) look like compared to stock...
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/springs1.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/springs2.jpg

[V]

eh...not in the mood to sleep.... i'm gonna finish the drivers side springs now...

[foff667]

looks good...what cam did you end up going with again?

[qwikz28]

paul is doing an MS3

[foff667]

:shakeshead: seems like everyone with that cam is dissappointed with their #'s other then cars coming directly from texas speed...for a big cam it doesnt make great tq #'s and being as big as it is drivability suffers compared to some smaller cams that can make the same power :shrug: oh well

[V]

really? i heard mostly good things about it. What comparable cam would you recommend?

[qwikz28]

trmin8r just made ~490whp with that cam and prc terminator heads and 90/90 setup

[foff667]

ok and 35thLS1SS has PRC CNC'd LS6 heads, MS3 cam, full bolt ons & put down 401rwhp corrected.

and if you go through the dyno archives you'll see many results like this with that cam.

Oh & trmin8r...again done AT TSP...just odd that people rarely make the numbers when they go elsewhere even with the same packages.

[V]

to be completely honest, i dont care about hp. yes it made sound stupid, but the car has been dead for over a year. i just would like to drive it again. I'm workign on selling my current daily driver, and i have 2 vehicles other than my SS i could use daily then. I am looking to move out of NJ and get a house in a little over a year. Im also just getting tired of the car scene, yeah its fun, but i wanna move on in life. I'm 26 now and i dont have the same desires i had at 18 for my cars. On the street, itll turn heads and hold its own, and at the track, i dont compete or care about every last tenth. I go just for fun. Hell, i ran a stock beat up diesel dodge ram at island in june just so i could race something. Currently my motor just has stock ls6 heads, but sometime in the future, who knows when id like to get a set of nice heads, but thatll be after i move and get settled in somewhere else.

If you really think i'll be dissapointed with the MS3, i can still change my mind. The cam is not in yet so it doesnt matter. I could sell the MS3 and pick up something else. I just dont follow every cams performance so i admit i really dont know whats good out there.

[qwikz28]

ok and 35thLS1SS has PRC CNC'd LS6 heads, MS3 cam, full bolt ons & put down 401rwhp corrected.

and if you go through the dyno archives you'll see many results like this with that cam.

Oh & trmin8r...again done AT TSP...just odd that people rarely make the numbers when they go elsewhere even with the same packages.
but 35thls1ss's car is also going through a pretty stout drivetrain. not to mention his heads are only lightly ported LS6 heads for the most part.

im just playing devils advocate. i realize there are better cams out there, but the ms3 for the most part is not a dud. i got the ms4 so we'll see what higher lift can do.

edit: good info on the ms3 http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=467816&highlight=MS3

[foff667]

but 35thls1ss's car is also going through a pretty stout drivetrain. not to mention his heads are only lightly ported LS6 heads for the most part.

im just playing devils advocate. i realize there are better cams out there, but the ms3 for the most part is not a dud. i got the ms4 so we'll see what higher lift can do.

You first tout them saying they made 490 in one guys car now lets break this down.

1. Like I said earlier before you even posted in response I said majically everyone who's made good numbers has actually gone to TSP phyically and had their car done there. INCLUDING TERMIN8R's car
2. You say 35ths car has a beefy drivetrain and thats why he didnt make the power so would you say trmin8r's 9inch isnt beefy?
3. I also ONLY commented about the TQ numbers so that HP figure means nothing "for a big cam it doesnt make great tq #'s" are my exact words.
4. His car is a street car so making big tq #'s would be more gratifying IMHO then making big hp #'s at 6500 rpms
5. you also blam 35ths downfall in the heads and claim his LS6 heads are slightly ported

ok Trmin8rs heads flow http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=667&catid=40
100" 72
.200" 149
.300" 205
.400" 249
.500" 283
.600" 303
.625" 306

35ths heads flow http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=649&catid=40
100" 72
.200" 149
.300" 205
.400" 255
.500" 287
.600" 307
.625" 310

UH so i guess that argument went out the window as well ;)

What else ya got?

[V]

...im still not hearing any other cam suggestions....

[foff667]

to be completely honest, i dont care about hp. yes it made sound stupid, but the car has been dead for over a year. i just would like to drive it again. I'm workign on selling my current daily driver, and i have 2 vehicles other than my SS i could use daily then. I am looking to move out of NJ and get a house in a little over a year. Im also just getting tired of the car scene, yeah its fun, but i wanna move on in life. I'm 26 now and i dont have the same desires i had at 18 for my cars. On the street, itll turn heads and hold its own, and at the track, i dont compete or care about every last tenth. I go just for fun. Hell, i ran a stock beat up diesel dodge ram at island in june just so i could race something. Currently my motor just has stock ls6 heads, but sometime in the future, who knows when id like to get a set of nice heads, but thatll be after i move and get settled in somewhere else.

If you really think i'll be dissapointed with the MS3, i can still change my mind. The cam is not in yet so it doesnt matter. I could sell the MS3 and pick up something else. I just dont follow every cams performance so i admit i really dont know whats good out there.


Personally I would say stick with what you have at this point...it just wouldnt have been my first choice in cams seeing that even smaller cam only cars can make good power.

[qwikz28]

You first tout them saying they made 490 in one guys car now lets break this down.

1. Like I said earlier before you even posted in response I said majically everyone who's made good numbers has actually gone to TSP phyically and had their car done there. INCLUDING TERMIN8R's car

but i dont get it... are they doing some sort of dyno tricks over there?

2. You say 35ths car has a beefy drivetrain and thats why he didnt make the power so would you say trmin8r's 9inch isnt beefy?

trmin8rs car was dynoed pre-9 inch, chris' wasnt

3. I also ONLY commented about the TQ numbers so that HP figure means nothing "for a big cam it doesnt make great tq #'s" are my exact words.

i do agree with you here. but this is also true due to the new advancements in cam lobe design. dont forget the MS3 is an old cam.

4. His car is a street car so making big tq #'s would be more gratifying IMHO then making big hp #'s at 6500 rpms

eh, your kinda rejecting the idea of a big cam in any street car then.

5. you also blam 35ths downfall in the heads and claim his LS6 heads are slightly ported

ok Trmin8rs heads flow http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=667&catid=40
100" 72
.200" 149
.300" 205
.400" 249
.500" 283
.600" 303
.625" 306

35ths heads flow http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=649&catid=40
100" 72
.200" 149
.300" 205
.400" 255
.500" 287
.600" 307
.625" 310

:w00t: those are the heads i got for my car ;)

UH so i guess that argument went out the window as well ;)

What else ya got?
its possible we are fighting the same arguement. big cams in a street car arent the best way to go. i think there are better cams out there now, but i dont know if its worth replacing at this point.

and paul, to answer your question, heres a few good cams i found that had i not ordered the MS4 right away, i probably would get:

Thunder Racing's TRak cam 231/234 .640/.590 112 LSA
Texas Speed's Torquer 3 cam 231/234 .643"/.598" 111 LSA
Futral's high lift F13 cam 230/232 .642"/.612" 112LSA

just to name a few. LS1s seem to love the new LSK lobes and these cams are all slightly lower duration cams then the MS3 and wil probably make bigger power then the MS3. an even smaller duration cam that makes awesome power is the Thunder Racing 228R but i cant seem to find it on their website. good luck man

[foff667]

I like the TRAK cam and actually got to tune one fairly recently...even with 3.42 gears & an m6 it was very streetable. And I know people that have gone over 470/445 with the FM13 though he spent the last year tuning it almost daily :lol:

I just find it odd when guys are making 401 to the wheels at one shop with a similar combo(not identical but similar) to a combo that goes 490/440 at the shop where the package was created...I see it pretty often not just from TSP where it makes big power at their shop and nowhere else. Maybe they just spend more time on the tune, who knows, but a 90rwhp difference from a fast intake over an LS6 & a 10 bolt over a 12 bolt just doesnt add up in my eyes.

And yes after having my large tsp cam I realized even though they sound badass they really arent meant for street use and there are other options out there...there are exceptions that I've seen but im no cam expert by any means.

Anywayz now that we've both confused you more then helped you I'll duck out of this thread.

[V]

well, yea i did get all confused and frustrated, lol... so, i just threw the ms3 in, whatever. i plan on doing other mods down the line which will involve enough work that throwing in a new cam then wont be a big deal. I do all the labor myself and i have all the tools so if in the end i do 3 or 4 cams, i really dont mind it. As of now the cam, valvesprings, rod bolts, ported oil pump are all installed and the motor is buttoned back up. I just need to put the new pushrods in, and then put the intake on. After that i gotta send the TB out to be ported, and i gotta order injectors, qtp headers and y pipe, and then i'll maybe get the motor in the car.

edit: oh, and i almost went to chevy to buy a LS2 timing chain, but... motor came with it stock.