pics of the motor 2.

[WayFast84]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/Wayfast84/Picture515.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/Wayfast84/Picture516.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/Wayfast84/Picture517.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/Wayfast84/Picture518.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/Wayfast84/Picture519.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a286/Wayfast84/Picture520.jpg

its a different motor:mrgreen:

[IROCdan330]

i like the paper towels in the exhaust ports and the open intake ports.

[camaro2you]

damn clean that bitch up!!!

[WayFast84]

damn clean that bitch up!!!

when i get it i will, im not likeing the orange ness:rofl:

[enRo]

So, I imagine this is what you are gonna build your drift car with, NEWB?

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3561/driftvi2.jpg




http://www.driftingforums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1104&sid=fe857420e2932cbf718a736477de9c70
:rofl:

[IROCdan330]

:rofl:

[BonzoHansen]

Oh Matt....

[WayFast84]

So, I imagine this is what you are gonna build your drift car with, NEWB?

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3561/driftvi2.jpg




http://www.driftingforums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1104&sid=fe857420e2932cbf718a736477de9c70
:rofl:

I wish :|

edit: what killed my fuel for a autox/drift car was on a different forum, some dumb ass with a honda civic started talking trash about firebirds..then i realized, i will be the guy who complains about getting beaten because he has a drift set up, and really where the **** can u drift in edison?

i know tons of deserted straight roads...

[Sphinx]

.......... i dont even have anything to say

[Knipps]

i... have nothing to say either
i can't even fathom the idea of what to say

[Tsar]

ownage!!!!

[WayFast84]

no ownage here, I admit it, its no secret i told tim my plans, and he stopped talking to me lol..


but its not gonna happen as stated above, it would be cool if I had a freind with a drift car 240 or some **** i could borrow or learn on lol

[IROCdan330]

no ownage here, I admit it, its no secret i told tim my plans, and he stopped talking to me lol..


but its not gonna happen as stated above, it would be cool if I had a freind with a drift car 240 or some **** i could borrow or learn on lol

every 240 is a drift car or havent you learned anything?

heres an idea: before learning to drift, learn to drive properly.

[WayFast84]

every 240 is a drift car or havent you learned anything?

heres an idea: before learning to drift, learn to drive properly.

that idea is to complex:wink:

[Mike]

if you get out drifted by a civic......you never deserve to have a lisence

[Savage_Messiah]

I wish :|

edit: what killed my fuel for a autox/drift car was on a different forum, some dumb ass with a honda civic started talking trash about firebirds..then i realized, i will be the guy who complains about getting beaten because he has a drift set up, and really where the **** can u drift in edison?

i know tons of deserted straight roads...


...

I can't even be a wiseass abotu that, it's too dumb to go off on... like seriouly it'd be like makign fun of a paraplegic and saying "hey why dont you walk your lazy ass?"...

[Iroc-z86]

every 240 is a drift car or havent you learned anything?

heres an idea: before learning to drift, learn to drive properly.

i like the idea of learning how to drive first...i think everyone who owns a civic needs extensive lessons. the loser fly-by is getting old.

[qwikz28]

i like the idea of learning how to drive first...i think everyone who owns a civic needs extensive lessons. the loser fly-by is getting old.

but how else would we be able to hear the fart can?

[Iroc-z86]

oh yeah, thats the best part of it. how could i forget.

the mile high wings are another plus too ;)

[Batman]

Oh Matt....

Ditto........

[WildBillyT]

Matt, you need to get your head squared away or you will end up with a project that isn't a quarter done and an empty wallet.

[Knipps]

he already has one of the two if not both

[WayFast84]

he already has one of the two if not both

dude you dont even know me..

[Knipps]

dude you dont even know me..

i read what you write and some of it almost gives me nightmares and i know you're car hasn't moved in how long?

maybe it's more than a quarter.. but still

[WayFast84]

i read what you write and some of it almost gives me nightmares and i know you're car hasn't moved in how long?

maybe it's more than a quarter.. but still

:lol: at least i do my own work, and when I dont know what to do next I ask for help.

at 15 what were you doing? the hokey pokey?

[Knipps]

:lol: at least i do my own work, and when I dont know what to do next I ask for help.

at 15 what were you doing? the hokey pokey?

working my ass off and taking care of school so i could afford a car, but by the time i was 15 i knew how to spell. :shock:

[WayFast84]

working my ass off and taking care of school so i could afford a car, but by the time i was 15 i knew how to spell. :shock:

you must not have been working hard to afford a 20 buck car...

[Mike]

i like the idea of learning how to drive first...i think everyone who owns a civic needs extensive lessons. the loser fly-by is getting old.

everyone eh?... i hope your car runs near the single digits to be making ignorant ass comments like that, not every import is a "ricer" and not every civic owner is a ****** driver, as i bet i know some that could make you look like a fool.

you must not have been working hard to afford a 20 buck car...


matt that makes no sence and is a substandard comeback.

[WayFast84]

everyone eh?... i hope your car runs near the single digits to be making ignorant ass comments like that, not every import is a "ricer" and not every civic owner is a ****** driver, as i bet i know some that could make you look like a fool.




matt that makes no sence and is a substandard comeback.



"First car, gave my neighbor 20 bucks for it, wanted to sell it and couldn't get rid of it
blew the trans 6 months later" from his fquick:wink:

[Knipps]

"First car, gave my neighbor 20 bucks for it, wanted to sell it and couldn't get rid of it
blew the trans 6 months later" from his fquick:wink:

yeah i did and you don't see me sitting idly on the curb now do ya?

[WayFast84]

"blew the trans 6 months later" ..... http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21229

nope

[Knipps]

and i have another car is what i meant.

who's car has an engine? that runs? in it?

[Tsar]

:lol: at least i do my own work, and when I dont know what to do next I ask for help.

at 15 what were you doing? the hokey pokey?
yea we know u work on your car, you set it on fire and drop it of the jack stand. keep up the good work.

[enRo]

:stupid: Agreed. So, whats it at now? A 355 vortec thats going to be used as an autoX / drift car, with a jackstand dent in the side, with a rack under the hood to cook up some hot dogs and mustard, cuz someone prolly ran their car with open HEADS and toasted up some wires... with side stripes and new paint job even tho the paint on there is new... all this with money handed from your mom and selling lemonade with the neighborhood 5th graders. dude lol . At 15 years old, I was still in school, WITH a life other than signing up to 5 google pages worth of forums explaining a different plan for my car that sits in my driveway 24/7. After seeing the drifting website, that was the icing on the cake. You need a girlfriend, and if you still have that one you have, I feel sorry for her getting less attention than a dang keyboard.

www.drphil.com is your friend

In all in all honestness, we've told you THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of times. Pick a plan, and stick with it. $20 for Chevelle 454's car seems like money well spent, IMO better than spending huge amounts of money on mods that are gonna be swapped out cuz of yet ANOTHER change of plans in your car, and at least he blew up his trans while it was driving down the road INSTEAD of being parked in his driveway.

[Tsar]

hey remember this thread? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15291

[Knipps]

:stupid: Agreed. So, whats it at now? A 355 vortec thats going to be used as an autoX / drift car, with a jackstand dent in the side, with a rack under the hood to cook up some hot dogs and mustard, cuz someone prolly ran their car with open HEADS and toasted up some wires... with side stripes and new paint job even tho the paint on there is new... all this with money handed from your mom and selling lemonade with the neighborhood 5th graders. dude lol . At 15 years old, I was still in school, WITH a life other than signing up to 5 google pages worth of forums explaining a different plan for my car that sits in my driveway 24/7. After seeing the drifting website, that was the icing on the cake. You need a girlfriend, and if you still have that one you have, I feel sorry for her getting less attention than a dang keyboard.

www.drphil.com is your friend

In all in all honestness, we've told you THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of times. Pick a plan, and stick with it. $20 for Chevelle 454's car seems like money well spent, IMO better than spending huge amounts of money on mods that are gonna be swapped out cuz of yet ANOTHER change of plans in your car, and at least he blew up his trans while it was driving down the road INSTEAD of being parked in his driveway.

$20 for the caprice... and i was actually picking up my girlfriend from school when it happened

[enRo]

$20 for the caprice... and i was actually picking up my girlfriend from school when it happened

I wasnt directing that at you lol (just for clarification)

[enRo]

hey remember this thread? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15291

Ya... that was back when he wasnt acting like a complete twat

[Knipps]

I wasnt directing that at you lol (just for clarification)

No worries, just clearin things up as well

[Savage_Messiah]

:popcorn:

[Knipps]

too late Kasey, it's over

[baddest434]

matt it might run better with 8 spark plugs instead of 7 1/2 :lol:

[hardline_42]

matt it might run better with 8 spark plugs instead of 7 1/2 :lol:

LOL. My fault for banging it against something and breaking the plug off when I was moving it around the garage. I had the pleasure of meeting Matt this past weekend and, despite the fact that I'm over ten years older than he is, I admire Matt for his interest in cars and I'm downright jealous. At 15 the only wheels I cared about where my skateboard and my first car was..gasp! a HONDA! Also, his mom is supportive enough to drive him all the way to Trenton on a Sunday morning so he could check out the engine. Sure he's young and has a long way to go but everyone starts somewhere. Sure his plans may change and maybe tomorrow he's selling this engine in favor of an aluminum block and 32 valve heads and the next day he wants a hillborn intake and fuel injection, but he's learning along the way and it's our job to support him.

[Firebird67dude]

At 15 i was a soph in H.S. and i was working at a mechanic shop part time.

Not defending Matt at all but you have to give him "mad props yo" drifting is hard and all i keep thinking of is that post SmokingSS made with that guy getting run over by his own car doing doughnuts.

[WayFast84]

LOL. My fault for banging it against something and breaking the plug off when I was moving it around the garage. I had the pleasure of meeting Matt this past weekend and, despite the fact that I'm over ten years older than he is, I admire Matt for his interest in cars and I'm downright jealous. At 15 the only wheels I cared about where my skateboard and my first car was..gasp! a HONDA! Also, his mom is supportive enough to drive him all the way to Trenton on a Sunday morning so he could check out the engine. Sure he's young and has a long way to go but everyone starts somewhere. Sure his plans may change and maybe tomorrow he's selling this engine in favor of an aluminum block and 32 valve heads and the next day he wants a hillborn intake and fuel injection, but he's learning along the way and it's our job to support him.
Thanks alot, my moms real supportive.


At 15 i was a soph in H.S. and i was working at a mechanic shop part time.

Not defending Matt at all but you have to give him "mad props yo" drifting is hard and all i keep thinking of is that post SmokingSS made with that guy getting run over by his own car doing doughnuts.

Im not setting up this car for drifting, I wanted to see if drifting and autox set ups where alike, and if they where, eventually set up this or a future car for it.

there are all types of thrill people can get from car, I kinda want all of them, but I have to get their one at a time.

[Knipps]

At 15 i was a soph in H.S. and i was working at a mechanic shop part time.

Not defending Matt at all but you have to give him "mad props yo" drifting is hard and all i keep thinking of is that post SmokingSS made with that guy getting run over by his own car doing doughnuts.

Who posted that? http://www.njfboa.org/...21321 (http://www.njfboa.org/forums//showthread.php?t=21321)

[Firebird67dude]

Who posted that? http://www.njfboa.org/...21321 (http://www.njfboa.org/forums//showthread.php?t=21321)

My bad. For some reason I though it was SmokingSS that posted that. I was too lazy to actually look it up. I got that thread mixed up with the pic he posted of a guy hanging off a pass. side sideview mirror.

[BonzoHansen]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/Emos/worthless_post_2.gif

[V]

yea, i was gonna say, wasnt me, lol

[1984camaroz28]

yea we know u work on your car, you set it on fire and drop it of the jack stand. keep up the good work.

L M A O

[baddest434]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/Emos/worthless_post_2.gif X10

[Firebird67dude]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/Emos/worthless_post_2.gif

:stupid:

[WayFast84]

woot

so i have a 406 now waiting for me to make enough money to get vortecs and a intake and a cam and all the necessities

[WildBillyT]

woot

so i have a 406 now waiting for me to make enough money to get vortecs and a intake and a cam and all the necessities

GOOD MOVE.

Always start with a good base. :mrgreen:

[WayFast84]

GOOD MOVE.

Always start with a good base. :mrgreen:

Yep I think i will have a real good set up when I get money I want to get everything I need to use with a non computer controlled carb and my 700r4 then drop her in then work on intake and carb and dizzie..

btw im virtually going with dirtrenolds vortec set up and seeing if I can get mid 11's considering he thought he can get 11.8 with a 3700 pound car...

edit his best before going with different heads was like a 12.2 and even that is not bad

[WildBillyT]

Yep I think i will have a real good set up when I get money I want to get everything I need to use with a non computer controlled carb and my 700r4 then drop her in then work on intake and carb and dizzie..

btw im virtually going with dirtrenolds vortec set up and seeing if I can get mid 11's considering he thought he can get 11.8 with a 3700 pound car...

edit his best before going with different heads was like a 12.2 and even that is not bad

Dirt knows his Vortec **** cold. A bunch of us called (still call) him Dirt "Vortec" Reynolds over on NastyZ.

Just be sure to spec all of your parts before you buy ANYTHING.

[WayFast84]

I cleaned it up some today with out using any degreeser just water and it looks alot better, cant wait to get everything for it..

[V]

just one question, whats with the paint all over the valvetrain? honestly, thats half-assed. plus whats the true specs of that motor? you said 400 now its 406, so its been rebuilt once or what?

[WayFast84]

its a 400, but brian(hardline) bought it from a guy who had a mild performance rebuild, brian drove the car and said it had tons of tq, he was going to use it for his camaro, but built up an all forged motor,including a stealthram.

when the heads are off, im gonna see if I can measure what ever the hell you measure to tell the bore...

[WildBillyT]

its a 400, but brian(hardline) bought it from a guy who had a mild performance rebuild, brian drove the car and said it had tons of tq, he was going to use it for his camaro, but built up an all forged motor,including a stealthram.

when the heads are off, im gonna see if I can measure what ever the hell you measure to tell the bore...

You will probably need a set of dial calipers to do this.

[WayFast84]

You will probably need a set of dial calipers to do this.

sounds expensive..

would it be wrong to paint it poncho blue?? eventually

[WildBillyT]

sounds expensive..

would it be wrong to paint it poncho blue?? eventually

Paint it whatever you want. Personally, I'd paint it whatever your stock engine color was and then call it a "305" to mess with people's heads.

[hardline_42]

Paint it whatever you want. Personally, I'd paint it whatever your stock engine color was and then call it a "305" to mess with people's heads.

That would be sweet. I like the 2-bolt 400 blocks for that same reason. They have the same number of freezeplugs as any other small block. If you swap in an internally balanced rotating assembly, you can tell everyone it's a stock 350 and no one's the wiser ;-) !

Matt, here's a cheapie set of dial calipers from harbor freight:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93293

[V]

personally, id use a real dial bore gauge and not a regular caliper. you may be able to rent one fromautozone or such(maybe not though) or once you have the block apart, take it to a machine shop and have them measure the bores, just so you know for sure. but i think you said you were only changing the heads so that wouldnt work.

also whats the stroke of the crank? has it ever been cut?
length of the rods? are the pistons domed flat or dished? and the cc if domed or dished? you need all that to figure out the compression ratio and then you need to know CC of the head combustion chambers youd be getting. If you just wanna throw vortecs on this motor and run it, be my guest but i'd never do that for any of my cars...

[1984camaroz28]

Yep I think i will have a real good set up when I get money I want to get everything I need to use with a non computer controlled carb and my 700r4 then drop her in then work on intake and carb and dizzie..

btw im virtually going with dirtrenolds vortec set up and seeing if I can get mid 11's considering he thought he can get 11.8 with a 3700 pound car...

edit his best before going with different heads was like a 12.2 and even that is not bad

not gona be just that easy to run a mid 11. the 700r4 wont last very long. nor will the 10bolt/9bolt once u start cuting some good 60s. your gona need a good suspension and a nice sticky tire

[WayFast84]

not gona be just that easy to run a mid 11. the 700r4 wont last very long. nor will the 10bolt/9bolt once u start cuting some good 60s. your gona need a good suspension and a nice sticky tire

I know that. I plan on getting the motor situated first though so Ill have a runing car, and not waste money by buying parts then buying different parts to do it first.

Trans Im verry pissed about, Ill prolly keep it and eventually go with a bowtie over drive trans when im about 17 1/3 is when major work is going to happen :wink:

[WildBillyT]

personally, id use a real dial bore gauge and not a regular caliper. you may be able to rent one fromautozone or such(maybe not though) or once you have the block apart, take it to a machine shop and have them measure the bores, just so you know for sure. but i think you said you were only changing the heads so that wouldnt work.

also whats the stroke of the crank? has it ever been cut?
length of the rods? are the pistons domed flat or dished? and the cc if domed or dished? you need all that to figure out the compression ratio and then you need to know CC of the head combustion chambers youd be getting. If you just wanna throw vortecs on this motor and run it, be my guest but i'd never do that for any of my cars...

Good advice, I was not sure if he'd have access to an actual bore gauge.

Wayfast,

CKPerformance > Bowtie Overdrives

[WayFast84]

Good advice, I was not sure if he'd have access to an actual bore gauge.

Wayfast,

CKPerformance > Bowtie Overdrives


f those prices!! I feel so ****ing violated, I wish I could have gotten a 1600 buck trans verse 1000 crapola rebuild that I didnt need!!

Looks like the th350 is going to be used with the 400 and if that goes ill get another one..

[WayFast84]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DK1107&N=700+304742+4294908216+4294840135+4294925067+4294 786233+4294838526+4294887624+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D65%2D3310&N=700+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=NAL%2D12558060&N=700+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ARP%2D134%2D3701&N=700+115&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL%2D7516&N=700+115&autoview=sku

http://bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog.php?Action=GETSUBCAT&CATID=OA1A3

[V]

who gonna drill the steam holes? and a nitrous cam?

[Firebird67dude]

f those prices!! I feel so ****ing violated, I wish I could have gotten a 1600 buck trans verse 1000 crapola rebuild that I didnt need!!


Why didn't you just use the curse word the first time too? Why did you appreviate it the first time then type it the second time?

[WayFast84]

who gonna drill the steam holes? and a nitrous cam?

I am not sure yet, no the cam is not a nitrous cam, I did that by accident.. Damn summit

I might ask Brian to drill the steam holes for a few bucks. Once again ill say Id rather give a member here some money to do something verses a shop..


I am not sure why I said “f” then “****” I am weird..

[NJSPEEDER]

cam = junk

carb = ok. if you want all out performance go with mechanical secondary, if you plan to use the car as a driver or cruise around a lot vacuum is ok, but you will need to tune it.

heads = look for used. you will want to have work done to the heads anyway, so there is no need to spend money on new.

head bolts = ok

intake = for the power band you are looking at, if that cam is an example of where you would like to shift, you would get more from a low rise single plain. an edelbrock torker2 or weiand xcelerator (not sure if it is available for vortecs)would be good choices

lock up kit = i think b&m makes one that is cheaper

[WayFast84]

yep everything is junk considering its a proven combination..

[V]

no one said it was all junk...

we still dont know what cam you are talking about. that link is for a nitrous cam.

vortecs may be proven, he didnt say they werent, he said buy USED since you're gonna want to have them worked. or waste money, im sure none of us mind.

[hardline_42]

Matt, I think the parts you picked are dead on. IIRC, that's pretty much Dirt Reynold's setup on his 400. NJSpeeder, when you say the cam is junk, I don't know if you are referring to the quality of the grind, or the actual cam specs. I've never had a Summit cam, but I've never heard any complaints either. As for the cam specs, they are great for a large displacement small block. These engines can swallow a lot of cam and still be champs down low. Plus, the extra duration on the exhaust side will help out if you're running Vortecs. Double pumper carbs are great but I doubt you'll need it. I would focus on building something that's driver friendly while sacrificing the least amount of power.

PS. It's the right cam. The street/strip version has the same exact specs. It's P/N SUM-1107

[WayFast84]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2D1107&view=32&N=700&appfilter=1#Application

that was just all the aplications...

this is the exzact same set up dirt renolds got a 12.1 in a 37xx pound car.. everything is the same but the cam, wich is the cheaper version of the crane cam he used, same specs, and i heard crane makes the cams for summit

edit and Im trying to get the vortecs and the intake used...

[V]

dont forget to add lifters to your list...

[WayFast84]

yep lifters centerbolt valve covers head gaskets etc

just wondering are the recomended springs for the cam specs or just thrown into the recomended items? why are lifters so expensive?

edit look downward

[hardline_42]

dont forget to add lifters to your list...

Voila! Problem solved:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DK1107&N=700+304742+4294908216+4294840135+4294925067+4294 786233+4294838526+4294887624+115&autoview=sku

[V]

ok, time now to add new pushrods, rocker arms, and a distributor...


i just looked at the lift of that cam, its so cute... a lil baby cam, hehe, nothing like mine

[hardline_42]

yep lifters centerbolt valve covers head gaskets etc

just wondering are the recomended springs for the cam specs or just thrown into the recomended items? why are lifters so expensive?

edit look downward

Be careful with the spring selection. You need to know the extent of the work you plan to do to the heads. If the guide bosses are staying untouched (no machining) then you are limited in spring choice by the inside diameter. The scoggin-dickey z28 springs are a good, inexpensive choice if this is your plan. If you're going all out with the heads, then get whatever the cam manufacturer suggests and machine the heads to fit them.

[hardline_42]

ok, time now to add new pushrods, rocker arms, and a distributor...


i just looked at the lift of that cam, its so cute... a lil baby cam, hehe, nothing like mine

Ooh this is fun! You don't need new pushrods (unless the ones on the engine are ridiculously bent) since Vortecs don't require special length rods. You can use stock GM rockers (cheap) and they hold up just fine. If you want to upgrade you'll pay for it. I do have a set of new Vortec roller tip rockers that I'll let go for cheap if you wanna go that route. Now for the dizzy, this is the one I had before I switched to a Stealth Ram system and had to get a small cap :-x :

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/aspx/display_id.1688/itemNo.distributor/qx/Product.htm

[NJSPEEDER]

i am refering to the cam specs as junk. you can make way more power with a smaller cam, or go with a modern lobe design of equal lift and duration and make a ton more power. summit cams are cut but crane, so i doubt quality is an issue.

[V]

ok well i wasnt sure if the vortecs would need different pushrods. sicne he has stock 84 LG4 ones and the 400 ones. same with the rockers, although i still love the paint job on the 400 ones. And i mentioned the dizzy just so he gets an idea of everything hes gonna be buying.


but tim...they know a guy who knows a guy who had that same spec cam and got a good 1/4 mile et......yet they didnt mention anythign about trans, stall or clutch, gearing, tires, suspension...lol

[WayFast84]

3.42 gears, no clue on coverter yet, suspension = nothing, why? because no money, ill be doing suspension when I can actually legally drive the car, but hopefully i can get a cheapo subframe conectors for christmas..

honestly paul, when was the last time you tuched an 400sbc

[V]

hahahahahaha matt when was the last time you rebuilt an engine? or actually got one up and runnign for that matter? i was NOT bashign this in anyway just trying to make sure you know all the stuff youll need.

and for this dirty vortec guy, who cares what he ran, you never said ALL the spec of his setup. i dont care what trans etc YOU have, i meant HIM. a built suspension car take a ton of time off 1/4 ets

so STFU and NEVER try to act like you know **** better then me

[hardline_42]

but tim...they know a guy who knows a guy who had that same spec cam and got a good 1/4 mile et......yet they didnt mention anythign about trans, stall or clutch, gearing, tires, suspension...lol

No offense to anyone, but the "guy" you're talking about happens to be Dirt Reynolds, the author of the sticky on Nasty Z28 that everyone and their mom's forum has a link to. He's forgotten more about Vortecs than I know, and Wild Billy and Bonzo can attest to that. Also, if Matt got in touch with him, I doubt he'd steer him in the wrong direction. And let's be honest, Matt needs to learn to DRIVE before he can even think about laying down ET's at the track (no offense, Matt :wink: ). A proven engine combo is a great starting point and the rest of the set up can come later.

[V]

ok so fine, but that still doesnt mean anythign to me, he could be god for all i care, i was just saying, NONE of his setup specs were posted here. is his bottom end the exact same as the one you sold matt?

[hardline_42]

ok so fine, but that still doesnt mean anythign to me, he could be god for all i care, i was just saying, NONE of his setup specs were posted here. is his bottom end the exact same as the one you sold matt?

Enjoy:


Guys -- it would be great if those who have Vortec heads post their combo.

Here is my old Vortec combo for those who may be interested:

1977 Z28 Camaro - full-weight, all-steel, 3760-3775 lbs race-ready with driver.

Best ET: 12.15 @ 110.52 MPH on a very worn set of BFG 275/60 drag radials, launched off-idle, in the heat of July.

Highlight notes: Home-ported Vortecs with stock valves and stamped-steel rockers, hydraulic lifter cam, dual plane intake and vacuum secondary carb.

This engine was a budget build, since I had already spent a large portion of my original budget for this project purchasing the car as a rolling chassis:
#817 block 400, bored .060"-over for 412.7 ci. The block would not clean up at either .030" or .040" over, so we had to go .060".
11.3:1 CR w/ flat-top 2-valve relief KB pistons, .026" down in the hole, block not decked
ARP rod bolts, resized stock 400 rods, 5.565", rotating assembly not balanced
Crane 'Blazer' hyd. flat-tappet cam & lifter kit, 234/244 @ .050" .488"/.510", 114 LSA
Vortec heads - stock retainers had 3/16" ground off the bottoms for retainer to guide clearance (worked great), Crane single valvesprings with dampner removed, stock rocker arms and valves, fully ported bowls intake & exhaust; some minor runner work consisting of contouring and straightening the runner on the exhaust, and mostly roof work on the intakes with mild contouring of the runner.
Edelbrock RPM Vortec intake manifold, unported; Holley 3310 vac. secondary 750 - milled airhorn, installed #31 squirter, pink pump cam in position #3, secondary metering plate installed with #80 jets (stock #72 in front),quick-change vac.secondary pod installed with the white spring (lightest)
Hedman ceramic-coated 1 3/4" full-length headers, 3" dual exhaust with 2-chamber race Flowmaster mufflers and 18" turn-outs
Stock HEI (recurved), MSD Digital6+ ignition box with Blaster 3 coil, MSD wires, NGK plugs
Misc.: Holley Blue electric pump and regulator (set to 7 psi), sumped fuel tank, Flexalite dual electric fans with control box,TH400 transmission with 2800-3000 stall B&M converter, 4.10 gears, full spool, 33-spline axles, c-clip eliminators, welded axle tubes to housing, aluminum Moser rear cover girdle, Lakewood drag shocks 90/10 front/50/50 rear, no sway bars, 275/60 BFG drag radials rear on 15x8 Weld ProStars; 165/15 tires front on 15x3 Weld ProStars

Other notes:

This combo began as a 13.49/102MPH ride in untuned form on a generic 275/60 street tire, to the eventual 12.15/110.52 performance with the above carb modifications and the drag radials. I feel this particular combo -- had I stuck with it -- would have eventually ended up in the 11.80 - 11.90 range with further testing and tuning. The carb modifications made a HUGE difference in power. I feel there was more in this combo but I got sidetracked with another set of heads, intake, and solid cam. One thing I can state, the 4.10 gear was too much for this combo -- I feel the car would have been quicker and faster with a 3.42 or at most, 3.73 gear. This would enable the engine to pull harder through the midrange RPM band, where it made its best torque.

If you run a dished piston and deck the block, you'll be able to run 92 octane premium. If I did this engine over again, thats what I'd do. In the cooler months of the year, I could run on 94 octane, but in the summer heat I had to add a gallon or two of av gas 100 octane low lead to the tank to keep it happy. The Vortecs will enable you to run right up to about 10.5:1 CR on 92-94 octane without a problem, in my opinion. Maybe more with better quench than what I had.

This shows what is possible on a low-budget engine build, using the Vortec heads. No roller rockers, roller cam, or any trick parts. There are others out there with similar stories of their Vortec builds, so lets hear 'em guys!

[V]

Matt seriously, just let it go. i always was nice to you,

hardline, ok so his is a 413, whats the motor you sold matt 400...406?
are they the same rods? and whats the CR goign to be once a set of vortecs are put on?
thats just a point im tryign to make, but whatever, im done here now

[NJSPEEDER]

so all i have to do is get a sticky on nasty and i can be a hero to millions too? whoopity doooo!!!!!!

just because someone came up with a combo that worked in their car doesn't make it a great combo. 413cubes and he is only in the 12's? that is easy to beat.
give me a break man. there is a ton of technology out there that makes more power at the same or less rpm than this will.

[WayFast84]

It isnt about making the most power.


Its about a proven combination, that will make decent power for verry little money, and will allow me to not kill my self for the first year till i need more power.

[hardline_42]

so all i have to do is get a sticky on nasty and i can be a hero to millions too? whoopity doooo!!!!!!

It also helps if you're a nice guy willing to help others and not a sarcastic jackass.

just because someone came up with a combo that worked in their car doesn't make it a great combo. 413cubes and he is only in the 12's? that is easy to beat.
give me a break man. there is a ton of technology out there that makes more power at the same or less rpm than this will.


I have no doubts that an aluminum block with forged internals and 32-valve arao engineering heads can blow the pants off the above combo. Now do it for the same price and it would be an accomplishment. Remember, Matt is on a budget an not as experienced as some of us. There is no shame in saving money and using components that have already proven to work well together.

[NJSPEEDER]

i would be happy to buy into the lovely reputation, but i can't see how anyone worth their weight in **** would recomend a 20 year old truck cam.
trust me, i have sepnt more hours offering advice to wayfast than you, i have never failed to be anything but honest with the kid and i will continue to do the same.

[WayFast84]

so while talking to tim, I might spend the extra 70 bucks on a different comp cams cam.. im not happy about not doing the set up, but hes right for 70 bucks more, its not a big deal, but now I gotta figure out what cam to choose, I might just leave it up to a profesional to pick.

[bad64chevelle]

Get the right cam the first time and do it right...its worth it. Ill be changing mine out within a year. I guess I like doing things the hard way, but learning as ya go is the only way to learn.

[NJSPEEDER]

comp cams tech help line is 1-800-999-0853
i would suggest xe284, power band is 2300-6500, 284/296 advertised duration, 507/510 lift with 1.5 rockers, 110 LSA.
power band is similar to what you were looking at and will yield a much broader torque curve.

[WayFast84]

i cant call them, Im a newb theyll be like you dont know chit

[hardline_42]

i would be happy to buy into the lovely reputation, but i can't see how anyone worth their weight in **** would recomend a 20 year old truck cam.
trust me, i have sepnt more hours offering advice to wayfast than you, i have never failed to be anything but honest with the kid and i will continue to do the same.

I wasn't going after you, I just get a little frustrated with the general demeanor of this forum when it comes to criticism vs. help. It seems like Matt can't ask a question without the whole forum giving him crap for every little thing. Maybe it's the average age of the members on here or something else but the vibe isn't so great and it bothers me when someone says ignorant things about Nasty members who are actually commited to helping each other out and sharing information instead of insults. There's a much larger pool of knowledge there and I think that a little more research would be a good thing before opening up on people who have much more experience. That's all.

[hardline_42]

comp cams tech help line is 1-800-999-0853
i would suggest xe284, power band is 2300-6500, 284/296 advertised duration, 507/510 lift with 1.5 rockers, 110 LSA.
power band is similar to what you were looking at and will yield a much broader torque curve.

That's a good suggestion. Check my sig.

[NJSPEEDER]

i cant call them, Im a newb theyll be like you dont know chit


when you cal them jsut explain that you are putting together your first engine combo. all the info they should need is that it is a 400 SBC, you are going to be running ported vortec heads, and either a tall dual plain(performer rpm) or low rise single plain(torker2/xcelerator) intake.
the only other question that they are likely to have is about compression ratio. when you buy pistons you will want to look for something that will be between 10.0 and 11.0 to 1

[WildBillyT]

I wasn't going after you, I just get a little frustrated with the general demeanor of this forum when it comes to criticism vs. help. It seems like Matt can't ask a question without the whole forum giving him crap for every little thing. Maybe it's the average age of the members on here or something else but the vibe isn't so great and it bothers me when someone says ignorant things about Nasty members who are actually commited to helping each other out and sharing information instead of insults. There's a much larger pool of knowledge there and I think that a little more research would be a good thing before opening up on people who have much more experience. That's all.

I agree. Nobody thinks that Dirt is a God. And he's modest about the whole thing. The thing is that his combo works well. And other combos that he has recommended based of his have worked pretty good too.

The only thing I saw posted in here that I don't agree with is the Torker II manifold. That should really only be used if hood clearance is an issue. Other than that, it is completely blown out of the water compared to modern dual planes. The RPM or RPM Air-Gap will be a much better match.

[WayFast84]

I filled comp cams, cam selector out today, lots of "dont knows" lol..

[WayFast84]

just FYI



Wayfast84 -- yes, I did use a camshaft that is of the older style -- on purpose. I am not totally convinced the newer 'fast-ramp' style camshafts are any better or even beneficial for use with Vortec heads for a number of reasons. Granted -- I could be wrong on this since I personally have not back to back tested this theory, but after a lot of consideration and some digging around I simply did not find much evidence that guys running the 'XE' type cams are doing any better than those of use running the older so-called 'slow ramp' designs. Consider this: Car Craft magazine did a build-up once with a GM crate 330HP 350, which comes stock with the Vortecs. The camshaft is of the non fast-ramp variety 212°/222° @ 0.050". CC pulled the stocker cam and replaced it with a much larger Comp XE268 which is 224°/230° @ 0.050". Net result after all that work: 7 HP. That's right -- 7 HP. Granted, the compression ratio was 9:1 which does make a differnce and benefits the smaller stocker cam more, however you would think for the faster ramp profile and supposed better power of the XE line, something better than a 7HP net would have been the result. Something to think about.

:cool:

[camaroracer1992]

i have a cam with similar specs to that for sale let me know if youre interested

[WayFast84]

simular specs to what cam?

is it the nitrous cam you have listed for sale?

[Savage_Messiah]

And let's be honest, Matt needs to learn to DRIVE before he can even think about laying down ET's at the track (no offense, Matt :wink: ). A proven engine combo is a great starting point and the rest of the set up can come later.

See my opinion (which has been formed by the helpfulness on this site, imagine that) is to make the most out of wht your car already has, get all fo that to the ground aka work on your suspension, because what is the point of more pwoer if what you have already isn't being fully utilized?

[NJSPEEDER]

just FYI

i know the article he is talking about. looking at the peak numbers is misleading when it comes to the updated cam designs. the peaks aren't a huge gain when you go from miniture old cam to miniture new cam, but the average power is higher.
basically you see the improvement all the way across the chart, not jsut at peak.
peak numbers are nice if all you wanna do is brag to your friends, area under teh curve is what makes the car quicker/faster.

[foff667]

:popcorn:

[hardline_42]

i know the article he is talking about. looking at the peak numbers is misleading when it comes to the updated cam designs. the peaks aren't a huge gain when you go from miniture old cam to miniture new cam, but the average power is higher.
basically you see the improvement all the way across the chart, not jsut at peak.
peak numbers are nice if all you wanna do is brag to your friends, area under teh curve is what makes the car quicker/faster.

Not to :horse: but Dirt Reynolds wrote a reply to you on NastyZ28.


NJSPEEDER -- I'll address your posts here since it concerns this topic, and I'm not a member of your board.


First of all -- if you've been reading this topic you'd know from the get-go the Vortec/413 combo was a budget deal. The cam and lifter kit was about a hundred bucks and the springs were $30. A similar grind to this is sold by Edelbrock as their 'Performer RPM' camshaft. Sure it's not 'state of the art', but it certainly works, and is easy on the valvetrain. The spring requirement meant that the seats did not need to be cut yet still provide good performance. The rocker arms were stock as were the valves, and I used a 3310 Holley carb. The vehicle weight approached 3800 lbs race-ready and if you know anything at all about what it takes to make a tank of a car this heavy run near the 11's with a street small block you'd know that the combo I listed worked not too bad. In fact, I thought initially if the car went a 12.70 on drag radials that would be great. Instead it got quicker and faster down to the 12-teen range. It would have went in the 11s with further tuning and trying various launching techniques, of that I'm certain. I think this is not shabby performance, all things considered. And just as a further note -- this 413 did eventually run in the 11.70s on drag radials with different heads, intake and a much bigger solid FT cam.

Regarding your comments about the reply I made concerning the GM 330HP GM engine cam swap test -- for all that effort to install a much larger cam grind (Comp XE 268 224°/230°/110° LSA) vs. the stock GM 330HP camshaft (212°/222°/112°) to net a gain of 7HP -- that cam swap was not worth the effort. Yes, power across the useable RPM range is what is important but what did you see in that test that made going to another bigger, so-called 'better' cam profile, worth the while? I saw very little to nothing there. The stock cam provided great torque across the useable RPM range and was well suited to that particular engine. In my case the useable RPM range was off-idle to 5700 RPM, although it would RPM to 6000. That is a good indication of how streetable the budget 400/Vortec package really was.

I shared my build-up here on Nasty to assist others who might want to go down the Vortec path and others like DriveWFO and Malibu2slow have gone quicker than I have with Vortecs - right into the mid-11s - so by no means is my car the 'be all and end all' of things Vortec. I've learned from others also. It's a two-way street. It is just my one man's contribution to the forum. My build simply represents what is possible on a real budget.

I would suggest you re-read the details before putting your mouth in gear.

[Batman]

I don't know if this helps you matt but Pace has vortec heads w/ steam holes, brand new, fully assembled for $290 a head. I don't know if you can get them machined for less then that or not but just some more info. I figure you will probably pay $250-$300 for a used set then a couple more to have them cleaned up and the holes drilled. Not to mention if you end up needing a valve job or some other unforseen cost.

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=67722

[foff667]

Not to :horse: but Dirt Reynolds wrote a reply to you on NastyZ28.

honestly who cares?

Your beating a dead horse bigtime & for no reason

He's beating a dead horse and in reality has no reason to even need to respond since he isnt on this forum and I can only assume you passed along this thread for him to view just so he would retalliate which IMO is just retarded to do.

As for why go with a better cam, Tim already pointed that out...its average hp not peak...it made not only more peak hp but more average hp which will win races.

As for him making excuses about his weight & this that & the other...he's probably putting down about 340 rwhp with a 413 cubic inch motor to run the mph he did...not that impressive IMO, but whatever, not my argument.

Anywayz have fun posting threads on other sites just to get responses from people that really had no reason to be brought into this thread.

To Dirt since I know Softass69 will eventually post this response on nasty im sorry if your offended by anything that was said by anyone here...your name really shouldnt have even been brought into the mix...your combination seems to work well for you & its obviously a very streetable package & for that Im happy for you.

As for you Hardhat76 your being a retard about the whole situation IMO the BS about "oh its a proven combination" is a bunch of BS when like 1 person has the combo :lol: so get off it.

Also Tim is one of the more helpful people on this board...on and off of it so get off the crack if thats what you think of him...obviously someone pissed in your wheaties or something...get over it or go away.

Bye

[Batman]

:popcorn:

[hardline_42]

honestly who cares?

Your beating a dead horse bigtime & for no reason

He's beating a dead horse and in reality has no reason to even need to respond since he isnt on this forum and I can only assume you passed along this thread for him to view just so he would retalliate which IMO is just retarded to do.

As for why go with a better cam, Tim already pointed that out...its average hp not peak...it made not only more peak hp but more average hp which will win races.

As for him making excuses about his weight & this that & the other...he's probably putting down about 340 rwhp with a 413 cubic inch motor to run the mph he did...not that impressive IMO, but whatever, not my argument.

Anywayz have fun posting threads on other sites just to get responses from people that really had no reason to be brought into this thread.

To Dirt since I know Softass69 will eventually post this response on nasty im sorry if your offended by anything that was said by anyone here...your name really shouldnt have even been brought into the mix...your combination seems to work well for you & its obviously a very streetable package & for that Im happy for you.

As for you Hardhat76 your being a retard about the whole situation IMO the BS about "oh its a proven combination" is a bunch of BS when like 1 person has the combo :lol: so get off it.

Also Tim is one of the more helpful people on this board...on and off of it so get off the crack if thats what you think of him...obviously someone pissed in your wheaties or something...get over it or go away.

Bye

Wow. I guess I should've expected as much from this crew. Where do I begin? Let's see. For starters, WayFast has been PM'ing Dirt Reynolds since he decided to go with Vortecs, so he has been aware of this thread for some time. I have no vested interest in this situation. Matt already has my old engine and that's that. So what do I gain from causing any inter-forum beef? Nothing. As it turns out, Dirt Reynolds was in the process of starting up a Vortec Forum and asked me to be a Mod, and in the course of our emails, mention of this and other threads in which his experience was being quoted was made. It was his choice to respond as he did.

Second, calling me a "retard" and saying I'm "on crack" is not exactly a testament to your maturity. You have the right to your opinion, and this forum allows you to express it without consequences. However, you have never met me and I assume you have never met Dave (Dirt Reynolds) so whatever judgement you have made is off-base. By the same token, I don't know Tim, but outside of this thread he seems to be a very helpful guy and I explained in my previous posts that my tone in this thread was not directed towards him but was instead due to the general critical demeanor of the people posting on this forum.

Third, I am defending Dirt's recommendations to Matt only because they are a good match to Matt's skill level, budget and goals for his build-up. If you notice my sig, I am in fact running an XE284 cam, not a truck cam. Besides, what is a "proven combination" if not something that has worked well in the past? If you read Dirt's Vortec guide you'll notice that he didn't slap a bunch of parts together and call himself an expert. He's got his own first hand experience as well as that of folks who have been involved with the Vortec design since the beginning to draw from.

Lastly, I am not a "noob" nor will I ever be "pwned." I don't go to NJFBOA parties and dangle my dong in other members' faces when they pass out, nor post up garbage when I'm drunk. That doesn't mean I don't know Chevys and it doesn't mean I don't know Vortecs. At the risk of stooping to your level, no, I won't get over it and I won't go away.:soapbox: :moon:

[Batman]

Can't we all just get along (and on topic?)

[hardline_42]

I don't know if this helps you matt but Pace has vortec heads w/ steam holes, brand new, fully assembled for $290 a head. I don't know if you can get them machined for less then that or not but just some more info. I figure you will probably pay $250-$300 for a used set then a couple more to have them cleaned up and the holes drilled. Not to mention if you end up needing a valve job or some other unforseen cost.

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=67722

Batman, thats not a bad deal. I've drilled the holes on all of my Vortec heads, but compared to what machine shops are charging for that, $290 is pretty good.

[foff667]

Wow. I guess I should've expected as much from this crew.

I didn't even read the rest of your post because this line alone shows what kind of person you are...foff :moon: douche.

[Batman]

Pace also has a whole slew of other Vortec heads

http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=839

[WayFast84]

/thread

[Mike]

you still havent posted what the dirt dude uses for a rear, gears, stall, suspension etc......

what is the total of this budget you speak of?

and all this talk of a budget build, where are you gonna be with your budget when your new 400ci motor blows up your stock 1984 rear? or stock tranny, or twists up your car before you put suspension on it, or cant stop with the stock 84 brakes????

[hardline_42]

you still havent posted what the dirt dude uses for a rear, gears, stall, suspension etc......


It's on page 4 of this thread, about halfway down.

[Mike]

It's on page 4 of this thread, about halfway down.

i stand corrected on that one, but it also goes to show what matt will need to come anywhere near the same times.......

and the answer to my other 2 questions?

[hardline_42]

i stand corrected on that one, but it also goes to show what matt will need to come anywhere near the same times.......

and the answer to my other 2 questions?

I didn't realize those questions were directed to me. I think that budget-wise, Matt has to answer those questions. To me $70 for a cam and lifter kit and less than $50 for springs, retainers and locks is inexpensive. Same goes for a pair of used Vortecs and centerbolt vc's, used intake and carb. As far as the rest of the build, that would be the case regardless of what engine combo he used. A 400 plus cid engine is capable of breaking every part of a stock drivetrain and I think that all of us were commenting with the assumption that he would have to upgrade the rest. He could've started with suspension, or the rear end etc. but he chose to start with the engine so that's what we've been talking about.

[Mike]

im just curious to know how much total someone building this set up would be spending vs. the power the setup will make?

[NJSPEEDER]

it is really simple, same operatingrpm, same effort, only a few more bucks than the older design cam costs. it remains a budget project and makes more power.
more power is more power, if it is 1 ft/lbs or 10 it is a gain. it makes more sense to me to spend a few extra bucks on an updated cam design to have a better average number when putting a combo together than wishing you had later when you are looking for that extra tenth or two.

[hardline_42]

im just curious to know how much total someone building this set up would be spending vs. the power the setup will make?

Depends on the deals you can get. My original setup (before I went EFI) had used Vortecs ($200) that I ported, polished and machined myself for a high-lift cam, bigger springs and screw-in guides. I got a complete Comp Cams K-Kit for the XE284 that cam with the cam, lifters, springs, retainers, locks, seals and a timing set ($300). I got a used Edelbrock RPM intake ($125) and an Edelbrock 750CFM carb that came on the engine that I already had. All things said and done, EA dynoed the combo at 511 peak HP and 509 peak TQ. It's a computer dyno but you get the idea.

[WayFast84]

its to much to cost for me lol..

im trying to pick a cam first so i can install it and put the motor in then do the vortecs suspension and other **** down the road cause im wiped out of cash, time and might be even more up **** creek

[IROCdan330]

I didn't even read the rest of your post because this line alone shows what kind of person you are...foff :moon: douche.


oh now i get it...its not foff...its f off...and i wondered so long the significance of that...

[foff667]

I didn't even read the rest of your post because this line alone shows what kind of person you are...foff :moon: douche.


oh now i get it...its not foff...its f off...and i wondered so long the significance of that...

yeah kind of a long story...my friend & I kinda came up with it when I first got on the net back in 98 I guess it was...just kinda stuck so now everyone calls me foff pronounced fawf...whatever.

Oh I finally got to read the rest of his post which too was pointless...He says he doesn't know Tim but yet makes a judgement of him by saying "It also helps if you're a nice guy willing to help others and not a sarcastic jackass." now mind you Tim IS a sarcastic jackass & he's not always a nice guy :lol: but does/has helped others on this board, not only talking & giving advice but wrenching...and he is a nice guy when he has to be hehe.

Also I could care less about your combo & at this point I don't even know how Dirt got into this thread at all other then being dragged in it kicking and screaming :lol: nobody really asked you about your combo and its not even in a car anyhow so it doesnt much matter any way you look at it.

Lastly with comments like "I don't go to NJFBOA parties and dangle my dong in other members' faces when they pass out, nor post up garbage when I'm drunk. That doesn't mean I don't know Chevys and it doesn't mean I don't know Vortecs." it makes me wonder why your hear other then to dog our real members. FWIW the person waving his dong in those pics is not a member on this site that I know of...It is my understanding he is a roomate of a member here...as for whats posted in the lounge eh its the lounge thats what its there for...let boys be boys, personally I don't drink so I doubt you'll be seeing any drunk posts from me anytime soon so if not aimed at me I guess its aimed at the other 1200 members of this site & to anyone who's gotten drunk & posted :shrug:

Have fun continuing making friends over at nasty or the vortec site...maybe you should stay there in the future.

lata
foff

[johnjzjz]

WOW SOME ARE VERY TOUCHY WOW

[BonzoHansen]

http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/boese/d022.gif

[j0n]

damn...i gotta stop ignoring threads started by wayfast...im missing all the fun! :popcorn:

[V]

some things that i just gotta say..

matt, first off i never meant to bash you in any way, i started out by just playing devils advocate and having you see all the other parts needed to get the setup together. Im sure many members, myself included, are happy you have your mind made up about an engine combo because now progress can be made. My only concern is that what might be a "budget" to others may be slightly out of reach for the beginner still.

Hardline, it seems you took everything stricly to heart. you may love you 406 and thats fine and i admit i dont know the first thing about putting vortecs on an older motor. Hence why i said about looking into pushrods and stuff, i bet you didnt know LS1s and LS6s have different length pushrods. I was actually trying to help him out with some creative criticism. Also, if you care to look back earlier in the thread, not once did matt mention he was actually in touch with dirt R. Had that been said, perhaps everything would have gone different. No offense to matt, but in the past hes changed his mind alot, and im sure i speak for others when i say i thought he just copied parts off the guys site or something. Now that it comes out he was actually talking to him, thats fine. BUT dirt R. is still running quite a different setup than matt will have for a long time and he needs to understand that a built suspension, 3000 stall, 4.56 gears and all will make a car perform a whole lot different than a stock setup 84 firebird. Ok so he will upgrade in the future, thats also fine, but he needs to realize 11's are not gonna happen with just a motor. You seemed to jump on me first in this thread when i mentioned about new pushrods or rockers and then i made a comment that its a small lift compared to my cam, well that was basically a joke, haha get it, besides my cam lift is .603/.609 anyway. Ive helped MANY members out from this site and many other car people, f body or not who arent on here, so don't you or dirt judge me on that. Finally, you say ported polished your own heads, soemthign i dont think matt is capable of yet, but then you also said you dynoed your setup on a computer dyno.. besides the fact i dont trust those, i assume you also flowtested your heads after the work in order to enter the info into the comp. the head work can vary alot from person to person if its done at home, so comparing stuff like that can(not always) be misleading. Stuff like that does matter and all info needs to be stated when posted here in a public forum, because other members, ive seen it on other boards too alot, will think everything is clear cut and simple, and then dont get it when they dont have the eaxct same results.

In closing, i dont consider one persons setup a "proven combo". you could build 10 seperate "budget" engines and garunteed youd get different results with each. If Matt wants to do this engine setup, thats great and i'll still try to offer any possible advice i could. but my main point is sometimes the cheap way isnt always the best, spending a few bucks more here and there will always pay off in the long run.

[NJSPEEDER]

oh now i get it...its not foff...its f off...and i wondered so long the significance of that...

yeah kind of a long story...my friend & I kinda came up with it when I first got on the net back in 98 I guess it was...just kinda stuck so now everyone calls me foff pronounced fawf...whatever.

isn't lenny the one who started the foff thing? i know the whole 667 thing started when they couldn't think of a name for the bowling team and i told yet another one of my retarded jokes(667 The Neighbor of the Beast)

[Batman]

:popcorn: I love this thread.....

[Mike]

yeah kind of a long story...my friend & I kinda came up with it when I first got on the net back in 98 I guess it was...just kinda stuck so now everyone calls me foff pronounced fawf...whatever.

isn't lenny the one who started the foff thing? i know the whole 667 thing started when they couldn't think of a name for the bowling team and i told yet another one of my retarded jokes(667 The Neighbor of the Beast)

667 would actually be across the street from the beast....664 and 668 would be his neighbors

[Knipps]

isn't lenny the one who started the foff thing? i know the whole 667 thing started when they couldn't think of a name for the bowling team and i told yet another one of my retarded jokes(667 The Neighbor of the Beast)

667 would actually be across the street from the beast....664 and 668 would be his neighbors

:owned:

[Tru2Chevy]

Well, no one ever said that it was a next-door neighbor, so as far as I'm concerned, someone who lives across the street is still a neighbor.

[/hijack]

Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread.......

- Justin

[foff667]

yeah kind of a long story...my friend & I kinda came up with it when I first got on the net back in 98 I guess it was...just kinda stuck so now everyone calls me foff pronounced fawf...whatever.

isn't lenny the one who started the foff thing? i know the whole 667 thing started when they couldn't think of a name for the bowling team and i told yet another one of my retarded jokes(667 The Neighbor of the Beast)

len just gave me some suggestions...667 was the name of the bowling team that I mysteriously wasnt invited back to :lol: at first I tried to get foff or something to that nature(an ICP thing) but it was taken so len suggested foff667 lol so that worked & stuck eversince.

[WayFast84]

an xe284 wont be out of the question thanks to hardline for mentioning it to someone.

now can i use my locks and retainers from my xe262 kit? I want to use either set of the heads i have now before i get vortecs because of my budget, I also want to get dynoed with every step, I know it sounds gay but what ever..

[WildBillyT]

also want to get dynoed with every step, I know it sounds gay but what ever..

Engine or chassis dyno? Either way, it's money you should probably consider spending elsewhere.

[WayFast84]

also want to get dynoed with every step, I know it sounds gay but what ever..

Engine or chassis dyno? Either way, it's money you should probably consider spending elsewhere.

its mad true but if its on a dynoday, for this club i wouldnt mind.

[Mike]

mad true

[enRo]

How the hell can something be "mad true"? Is the truth mad? Is the false sad? Is the non-fiction angry? Is the fiction smug? Since when are you rollin' hard with teh Edison gangstaz?

This thread is Eff Tee El

[Tru2Chevy]

Matt, you will prolly be able to use the locks and retainers that come with the 262 kit, just check the part numbers on their site. That's what I did when I bought my XE274 cam. I originally bought the xe268 to toss in my 305, then I was thinking about using it in the 400. Decided to upgrade, and I looked on their site....they sent the same springs/locks/retainers with both the 268 and 274 'K' kits, so I just bought the 274 cam and used all the stuff from the other kit.

- Justin

[BonzoHansen]

All this and you don't have $20 for a proper manual. :roll:

[WayFast84]

Matt, you will prolly be able to use the locks and retainers that come with the 262 kit, just check the part numbers on their site. That's what I did when I bought my XE274 cam. I originally bought the xe268 to toss in my 305, then I was thinking about using it in the 400. Decided to upgrade, and I looked on their site....they sent the same springs/locks/retainers with both the 268 and 274 'K' kits, so I just bought the 274 cam and used all the stuff from the other kit.

- Justin

it wont work together


hey I have 20 bucks for a manual, I just might need 20 bucks for something more important in the soon

[Batman]

:twak: I'm just gonna use the shop manual to prop up my coffee table then. I guess I just don't see the point of having parts you don't know how the hell to put on. Forget it, I'll sell it on Ebay and make some money. :loser:

[WayFast84]

What ever, its a bad situation and I only have about 1 more week of waiting before we know....

[Mike]

to be honest, if your not gonna say what it is, stop ****ing posting about it...better yet, shut your computer down for a couple days and relax, come back after the situation is done and over with

[Frosty]

12.20's out a 413? Eh, nothing special. A buddy of mine is running much faster on a Vortec-headed 355. Those heads when worked properly go a long way. Good luck on your buildup :)

Good luck drifting too. ;):D

[WayFast84]

I cant find used vortecs, Ive posted on tgo etc. But I get offers for vortecs heads and they are not L-31 heads.

so far I can get an holley 750cfm that needs a rebuild, with a rebuild kit, xe284 cam with springs and retainers. for $200 from the same person.

I figure $200 used or like $500 new for heads

then stall and gears= alot
and then a intake..

and misc crap

[BonzoHansen]

Did you buy that manual yet?

[IROCdan330]

I cant find used vortecs, Ive posted on tgo etc. But I get offers for vortecs heads and they are not L-31 heads.

so far I can get an holley 750cfm that needs a rebuild, with a rebuild kit, xe284 cam with springs and retainers. for $200 from the same person.

I figure $200 used or like $500 new for heads

then stall and gears= alot
and then a intake..

and misc crap

you think about this stuff out loud entirely too much.

[1984camaroz28]

I cant find used vortecs, Ive posted on tgo etc. But I get offers for vortecs heads and they are not L-31 heads.

so far I can get an holley 750cfm that needs a rebuild, with a rebuild kit, xe284 cam with springs and retainers. for $200 from the same person.

I figure $200 used or like $500 new for heads

then stall and gears= alot
and then a intake..

and misc crap

leave the carb where it sits and buy a new demon

[WildBillyT]

I cant find used vortecs, Ive posted on tgo etc. But I get offers for vortecs heads and they are not L-31 heads.

so far I can get an holley 750cfm that needs a rebuild, with a rebuild kit, xe284 cam with springs and retainers. for $200 from the same person.

I figure $200 used or like $500 new for heads

then stall and gears= alot
and then a intake..

and misc crap

leave the carb where it sits and buy a new demon

If he doesn't have $20 for a factory service maunal, chances are he can't afford any Demon, let alone a new one. :shock:

[NJSPEEDER]

is that cam new or used? i wouldn't bother buying a used flat tappet cam when new ones are so cheap.

[1984camaroz28]

leave the carb where it sits and buy a new demon

If he doesn't have $20 for a factory service maunal, chances are he can't afford any Demon, let alone a new one. :shock:

the time he takes it to someone to have it done and so on hes 80% way to a new one. WHY BOTHER WITH IT?

[Ian]

is that cam new or used? i wouldn't bother buying a used flat tappet cam when new ones are so cheap.

re-using a flat tappet cam is something I would never do. you have to match all the lifters to the lobes they were on and if you dont do that the cam and lifters eat eachother. Roller cams can be re-used no problem, but a flat tappet....I wouldn't.

[johnjzjz]

is that cam new or used? i wouldn't bother buying a used flat tappet cam when new ones are so cheap.

re-using a flat tappet cam is something I would never do. you have to match all the lifters to the lobes they were on and if you dont do that the cam and lifters eat eachother. Roller cams can be re-used no problem, but a flat tappet....I wouldn't.

not so it does happen cm can get burned off ( the real reason is the lifter is not turning ) but i have i customer with a rece chevy and the solids in it have been in 3 motors i know but its true -- cant tell am old timer the way they are -- in my shop we will re use a flat tappet cam over - we just use a new set of lifters -- but we always re hone the bores -- ( reason lifters dont turn in the first place ) just the way we do it my shop -- jz

[WayFast84]

both the xe262 and xe284 where installed but NEVER ran

[Ian]

re-using a flat tappet cam is something I would never do. you have to match all the lifters to the lobes they were on and if you dont do that the cam and lifters eat eachother. Roller cams can be re-used no problem, but a flat tappet....I wouldn't.

not so it does happen cm can get burned off ( the real reason is the lifter is not turning ) but i have i customer with a rece chevy and the solids in it have been in 3 motors i know but its true -- cant tell am old timer the way they are -- in my shop we will re use a flat tappet cam over - we just use a new set of lifters -- but we always re hone the bores -- ( reason lifters dont turn in the first place ) just the way we do it my shop -- jz

AH okay. that makes sense. thanks for clearing that up for me john :)

[WayFast84]

got my

cam
dizzie
heads
intake

today

as well as a 10'' kicker for 15!!

[Ian]

what heads did you end up getting?

[WayFast84]

summit vortec heads.

the main reason i got them was because the springs where for a .520 lift and the cam I chose has a .510, that and because i heard they are RHS castings wich are soposed to be stronger then regular vortecs, I would still rather have 200 buck used l31's but I really want to get the car runing, and reinsured asap.

edit, Im taking the heads off today and maybe installing the cam, but Im not gonna install the heads till i get a carb because i can return them if something else comes up wich prolly will

[Savage_Messiah]

buy the ****ing manual

[BonzoHansen]

buy the ****ing manual:lol: I got the factory service manuals for my 93 K1500 in the mail ytesterday.

[Batman]

Did you buy the heads with the steam holes pre-drilled?

[Rob WS6]

Yeah youre gonna need to drill steam holes in those heads to use on that 400.