sway bar

[Kid Racer]

guys i own a 3rd gen camaro and i was talking to a friends about some stuff i could take off the car for wight redauction...and he said i could take off my front sway bar.....has anyone ever done taht and found a differance in driving it....or should i leav eit one there...

[alamantia]

it wont handle as well, but its a few lbs you can save at the drag strip

[Kid Racer]

well i thats what i mena is it going too hurt anything too were it will affect my driving and will i notice a big difference

[alamantia]

it will effect the drivability of the car and you wont notice much in gains at the track, leave it in

[Kid Racer]

iight...thanks

[alamantia]

i mean you may pick up like 0.01 of a second in the quater for losing 15-20lbs but is it worth having the car handle like ass every other day of the week. I had a 91 RS similar to yours and when i broke a swaybar link in the front it was very noticable. Id just remove the spare tire and back seats if your really that hard up on droping a few pounds at raceway that one wendsday night your jonsin to beat on your car, just my opinion though, i had the most sucess getting my 91 lead slead to get down the quater mile in under a year by swaping the 2.73 for 3.73 and getting a prom burned, that was a 305 TBI 700R4 though, dont know what you have

[Kid Racer]

well i run a 15.2 right now on a stock tpi 305 700r4.....the spare tire is ouit and the back seats r coming out.the a/c is all coming out smog pump nd i am thinking about taking the power stering out too...

[alamantia]

do you drive the car as a daily driver as well? doesnt sound like it if your taking all that stuff out. What gears are you running? And have you upgraded the prom from stock?

[Kid Racer]

whats prom....and i have 373 in the rear...and yes i do drive it as a daily driver its got a litl over 200k on it ...

[alamantia]

Prom is the "chip" which gets installed in the ECM, the cars computer, if you find a company like (PCM's for less) for example or a similar prom burning company and call them and explain what you have done in terms of modifications to your car they will custom burn you a prom. If you decide to look into this PM me and i will give you the contact info of someone at PCM's for less i trust will give you the best advice. I dont rememebr what it costs to have a prom burned but I remember it being around $100 - $150 like 10 years ago.

As for removing smog pumps, AC Power stering etc., Id simply id look into simply re routing the belt first by passing those accessories, maybe even install an underdrive pully on the balancer but if yu drive thecar every day, removing those things will really inhib the drivability for pretty unsubstancial gains. When the A/C is off its not putting any drag on your motor, as for the power stering and smog pumps there is probably a way to bypass them without removing them. Those parts dont weigh that much eather, maye the compressor is a few pounds.

It depends what you want to use the car for but not having A/C, power stering, that just sucks, not having smog pumpks on a car that was origionaly equiped with them is for one illegal if you get caughty and the car may not pass inspection, the O2 sensors may even throw a code off in teh ECM all for a 1/4 second... just some things to consider

[WildBillyT]

If I remember correctly, the rule of thumb is that for every 100 lbs you lose you get .1 in the quarter. Axing important parts on a daily driver for such a small gain is foolish IMO.

[Kid Racer]

well i dont use my back seats dont use the ac and as far as i know the smog pump aint working caus ei dont have cats any more..

[HardcoreZ28]

I agree with what alamantia and Billy are saying....don't go removing too many of the "creature comforts" if it's a daily driver. If your A/C doesn't work and you don't plan on spending the bucks to fix it then you can remove it. The smog pump can get you in trouble at inspection time so if you remove it keep it around to reinstall during inspection time. And don't forget to plug up the diverter valves if you remove it or you'll have one hell of a leak.
As for removing the p/s....why the hell would you do that? That whole assembly might add 20lbs to the car...if that. And manual steering a car setup for power steering is not an efficient arm workout.

[BonzoHansen]

I thought the sway bar thing was more about transfer then weight reduction, maybe the real drag racers will chime in. If so, disconnect the end links at the track, race, and then bolt them back in. But does mean you need to be able to remove them, so do it at home first. Often they rust to the point where they just break coming off. A new set of links (a few bucks) might be requires. And a few wrenches.


‘iight’ <-- really, what is this?

[Knipps]

I thought the sway bar thing was more about transfer then weight reduction, maybe the real drag racers will chime in. If so, disconnect the end links at the track, race, and then bolt them back in. But does mean you need to be able to remove them, so do it at home first. Often they rust to the point where they just break coming off. A new set of links (a few bucks) might be requires. And a few wrenches.


‘iight’ <-- really, what is this?

i explained last time, i'm not gonna follow you around and put it up every time :lol:

[BonzoHansen]

i explained last time, i'm not gonna follow you around and put it up every time :lol:
:lol: :lol: I missed, I'll go look! :lol:

[Knipps]

;)
http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showpost.php?p=302081&postcount=11

[BonzoHansen]

:lol:
alright, extremely compressed
essentially the same as OK

Rriiiigggghhttttt. So like somethng Flavor Flav might say. Gotcha. Bring the noise.

[alamantia]

I thought the sway bar thing was more about transfer then weight reduction, maybe the real drag racers will chime in. If so, disconnect the end links at the track, race, and then bolt them back in. But does mean you need to be able to remove them, so do it at home first. Often they rust to the point where they just break coming off. A new set of links (a few bucks) might be requires. And a few wrenches.


‘iight’ <-- really, what is this?


I could see if the sway bar was keeping the front end from coming up, but the sway bars purpose its to try and keep the lower control arms parallel around corners so the body does not roll, on straight acceleration both control arms should drop down evenly and the sway bar will rotate with the control arms. Becides, were talking about a 15 second street car. No offence Kid Racer buit its not like its a 9 second SS/DA camaro with ladder bar suspension and 15" slicks carrying the front wheels over the 60' mark. I dont think you will benifit from weight distribution.

When I was 17-18 I had my 91 RS and my father was the service manager at Vale Pontiac, if you remember that place, every saturday I would bring my car in and try and tweak it and work on it with what little money i had after spend the rest of my $100 week paycheck on my GF and beer and Id always ask the mechanics how to better my car, you know what the respoonce i always always always got was, "you like your car? Leave it alone" of course my stubborness and arogance prevailed and I did everyting in my budget possible to that thing, sold it for much less than i put into it and financed a LS1 and said to myself, "Damn, i waisted so much time and money, i should of just left my RS alone" then i said "Damn, i turned into one of those mechanics", damn! Do it man, rip that baby apart, your just dieing to, do it, learn how teh rest of us did... LOL


YEahhhhhhhhh Boyyyyysss

[WildBillyT]

I agree with what alamantia and Billy are saying....don't go removing too many of the "creature comforts" if it's a daily driver. If your A/C doesn't work and you don't plan on spending the bucks to fix it then you can remove it. The smog pump can get you in trouble at inspection time so if you remove it keep it around to reinstall during inspection time. And don't forget to plug up the diverter valves if you remove it or you'll have one hell of a leak.
As for removing the p/s....why the hell would you do that? That whole assembly might add 20lbs to the car...if that. And manual steering a car setup for power steering is not an efficient arm workout.

Whoa, hang on. I missed the power steering thing.

Don't remove that. Especially if you want to run somewhat of a decent tire up front- and this is assuming you convert to a manual box and not just a disconnected power box.

If you have never driven a manual steering car I suggest you do so before you even consider this. As for a non-powered power steering box, forget it. It will work, but poorly.

[alamantia]

yeah dude, my dads old X77 had no power steering, i had to work out for like 3 years just to get that thing around a corner, granted it has a big block, no power stering is no fun, of course i dont suggest this but if you want to see what its like just go SLOWLY down a windy hill throw it in nutral and see if you can steer it, if you smack a pole it was a bad idea. Seroiulsy, i miss my 3rd gen, it drove real nice, not worth removing the power steering

[Kid Racer]

iight i wont take the power stiring out...

[alamantia]

im tryin to think if i have my old prom somewhere... hummm... I know i put the stock one back in when I sold it... you have the "E" motor right? If so I can look for it if you like, lemme know....

[Tru2Chevy]

I don't see the big deal with not having the power steering, as long as you plan on swapping in a mechanical box. I have driven several different cars without power steering, and I never had any trouble with them.

Kid - it all depends how far you want to go, and what you are willing to live with. Some peoples idea of a must have is totally unnecessary to someone else. If you don't plan on fixing the AC, get rid of it. The entire system weighs a little over 50 lbs in a 3rd gen.

The sway bar is a debated issue, but if you are looking for everything you can get out of the car, then get rid of it. It's 15-20 lbs off the nose of the car, and not having the endlinks connected will allow the suspension to droop easier.

- Justin

[alamantia]

another thing i just thought of was that my 91 came with lexan T-tops, there was a TSB on them delaminating so if you had this issue you could bring them to the dealer and GM;s fix was to put the glass ones in. If you bought the car used there is a chance the previous owner complained about the lexan ones delaminating and the dealer replaced them with the heavy glass ones. If you have the glass ones you can pick up a pair of lexan ones for dirt cheep or even borrow someones when you go to the track, im sure and thats a few more lbs you could save right there.

[Firebird67dude]

Kasey has a 97 maro and he took the front swaybar out. The front end seemed squirely and feathery and i was sitting shoty. I didnt like it.

[Kid Racer]

yeah i dont think ima take the sway bar off but the a/c smog pump and the back seats and all i think ima take out put the battery in th back....

[NJSPEEDER]

don't use the billion mile car that has been in more than one front end collision as teh example of how most cars react to not having the front sway bar on. lol

justin is right. it all depends on what YOU want to get out of the car and what you would like to live with. personally, i never use air conditioning, i have had it in several cars, just don't like it. so it comes out of any car i want to make fast. the same is true of so many other parts. as justin mentioned, it is about 50lbs you can lose.
removing the front sway bar will allow for more body roll when you turn and decrease the ability of the car to turn if you are running hard around town and trying to turn really hard. so if you are more interested in handling than straight line performance, leave it on. taking it off will take weight off the nose of the car, allow the front suspension to release better and transfer weight, and as long as you have good shocks you won't really notice much of a difference when doing normal around town adn highway driving. the front sway bar and associated hardware is somewhere around a 14lbs weight reduction
manual steering is a fine conversion as long as you understand that you won't be able to trun as fast. the car will still be capable of turning just as sharp, but you will have to move the steering wheel further with a manual steering box to get it done. converting from power to manual steering by installing a proper manual box will save you about 37lbs and take about .25hp of drag off the engine. lol
the smog equipment is an easy removal, you will fail a visual inspection in NJ without it if you care. if you remove everything properly you can drop about 17lbs.

as has been stated before. it is all about what your goals are and what you are willing to live with. personally, i don't need a whole lot of creature comforts in a car, i would rather be fast :grampsch:

[Firebird67dude]

don't use the billion mile car that has been in more than one front end collision as teh example of how most cars react to not having the front sway bar on. lol


hahaha, when my bracket for my front swaybar broke and I was driving it around till I got a new one I felt the differance. Again the front end felt like crap.

[NJSPEEDER]

i'm not saying you can't feel the difference, especially at the speeds you tend to drive. just saying that it is an easy thing to live with or without.

also, since some people i am talking to seem to be under the impression that doing the little things to a 15second car won't help, i would say that you do the mods you can afford or you have available to improve your car. if that means starting with the free and cheapest mods, that is what you have to do. :)

[Firebird67dude]

i'm not saying you can't feel the difference, especially at the speeds you tend to drive. just saying that it is an easy thing to live with or without.

You just gave me an idea. I should make my car handle liek ass so then I wont want to go fast.

[98tadriver]

The sway bar is a debated issue, but if you are looking for everything you can get out of the car, then get rid of it. It's 15-20 lbs off the nose of the car, and not having the endlinks connected will allow the suspension to droop easier.

- Justin

I agree with justin on this one, i took it off of my turd gen, and it didnt sway [I]that[I] bad at all, but I also had my 4th gen so the 3rd gen wasnt a daily driver.

Now here's what i say- Take the sway bar off, drive it around for a couple days and see how you like it. i noticed more lift from front on takeoff- http://thumbs.vidiac.com/c7592278-1308-47c7-b906-1b1b54061647.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/c7592278-1308-47c7-b906-1b1b54061647.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/c7592278-1308-47c7-b906-1b1b54061647.htm)

[BonzoHansen]

i think ima take out put the battery in th back....Please don't do that unless you really know what you're doing. Car fires suck.

[98tadriver]

Please don't do that unless you really know what you're doing. Car fires suck.


Have no fear! for i know what im doing!

[Kid Racer]

yeah i told u guys ron always comes too help me man an di thank him for that..he has tought me a lot..

[Savage_Messiah]

don't use the billion mile car that has been in more than one front end collision as teh example of how most cars react to not having the front sway bar on. lol

justin is right. it all depends on what YOU want to get out of the car and what you would like to live with. personally, i never use air conditioning, i have had it in several cars, just don't like it. so it comes out of any car i want to make fast. the same is true of so many other parts. as justin mentioned, it is about 50lbs you can lose.
removing the front sway bar will allow for more body roll when you turn and decrease the ability of the car to turn if you are running hard around town and trying to turn really hard. so if you are more interested in handling than straight line performance, leave it on. taking it off will take weight off the nose of the car, allow the front suspension to release better and transfer weight, and as long as you have good shocks you won't really notice much of a difference when doing normal around town adn highway driving. the front sway bar and associated hardware is somewhere around a 14lbs weight reduction
manual steering is a fine conversion as long as you understand that you won't be able to trun as fast. the car will still be capable of turning just as sharp, but you will have to move the steering wheel further with a manual steering box to get it done. converting from power to manual steering by installing a proper manual box will save you about 37lbs and take about .25hp of drag off the engine. lol
the smog equipment is an easy removal, you will fail a visual inspection in NJ without it if you care. if you remove everything properly you can drop about 17lbs.

as has been stated before. it is all about what your goals are and what you are willing to live with. personally, i don't need a whole lot of creature comforts in a car, i would rather be fast :grampsch:



1 front end accident buddy, but aside from that I'm agreeing with it all here.

and yea there are stock takeoff shocks that are probably around teh end of their service life up there.

[qwikz28]

removing the front sway bat is foolish to say the least. you'll regret it when someone cuts you off on the highway and you need to make some ridiculous maneuver to avoid an accident but instead create your own from a sloppy handling car.

[maroman88]

should be a VIN F motor if its a 305tpi or an 8 for 350tpi and the E motor chip wont work

[NJSPEEDER]

removing the front sway bat is foolish to say the least. you'll regret it when someone cuts you off on the highway and you need to make some ridiculous maneuver to avoid an accident but instead create your own from a sloppy handling car.


i managed to avoid accidents the whole time my front sway was off, even when i had to make sudden manuvers on the slicks and skinnies. 99.9% of accident avoidence is jsut being aware and knowing how to drive.

[BonzoHansen]

i managed to avoid accidents the whole time my front sway was off, even when i had to make sudden manuvers on the slicks and skinnies. 99.9% of accident avoidence is jsut being aware and knowing how to drive.
Does that apply here? :-P

[qwikz28]

Does that apply here? :-P

it really doesnt, therefore i don't think providing any more of a handicap for some people is a very wise idea.

[Savage_Messiah]

i managed to avoid accidents the whole time my front sway was off, even when i had to make sudden manuvers on the slicks and skinnies. 99.9% of accident avoidence is jsut being aware and knowing how to drive.

:stupid:

**** even I'll admit the main thing that caused my accident was I wasn't paying attention. Learned off that one.

[Blacdout96]

I say leave the sway on, its better to have control then to save a puny 14 lbs. Hell your better off buying an aluminum driveshaft off of ebay for about 100 bucks ( make sure its 3rd gen alumi, theyre diameter is amaller then 4th gen) youll shave some rotating mass. Also look for a crappy fiberglass hodd to put on when you go to the races, that way you can shave top end weight off, yet not worry about it spider crackign and stuff, and when your done, pop the other hood back on. Dont forget to loose the passenger seat too, theres a couple pounds too. and lastely, if you have the Iroc rims on there, see if the stock star rims on about 90% of what all 86-92 camaros had are lighter then the ones you have now and if theyre a smaller diameter as well. To be honest, i dont do much drag, but i noticed that rotation weight (I.E drive shaft, rims and tires, etc.) seems to be more of a problem then stagnet weight (I.E. seats, spares, up unto abou the first hundres pounds taken off) Whatever you do, dont take off suspension parts cause, well, theyre important lol.

[WayFast84]

leave the sway bar on, but in one build up from a 17 sec car to a 13 sec car they removed they un hooked not removed, the sway bar, and shaved .3 off the et

[unstable bob gable]

leave the sway bar on, but in one build up from a 17 sec car to a 13 sec car they removed they un hooked not removed, the sway bar, and shaved .3 off the et

Yeah! :rolleyes:

[WildBillyT]

leave the sway bar on, but in one build up from a 17 sec car to a 13 sec car they removed they un hooked not removed, the sway bar, and shaved .3 off the et

There was also an episode of Horsepower TV where they gained 100hp going from a GM intake and Holley 850 to an Edelbrock intake and Edelbrock 850. Baseline for an LS6 big block was 202 wheel horsepower. That's 56% driveline loss... so there was a lot of de-tuning to get those results.

Don't believe everything you read or see.

[98tadriver]

removing the front sway bat is foolish to say the least. you'll regret it when someone cuts you off on the highway and you need to make some ridiculous maneuver to avoid an accident but instead create your own from a sloppy handling car.

yeah, but we're talking about sway bars, not sway bats! lol

[Slow Z]

old thread yes, but... I took off my front sway bar and the car immediately stopped squatting hard on launches and started pulling the driver's front wheel. It handled no different to me going down the road but then again I have skinny front tires and slicks in the back so I don't even think about cornering hard.