Recent Changes, Further Explained [Archive] - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

NJSPEEDER

02-12-2007, 05:58 PM

After many conversations on AIM and through PM's with several members it has become clear that there may be some misunderstandings as to the reasons that the recent rules decisions and revisions were made.

First thing we would like to make clear is that the decisions were the result of suggestions made by several members. The suggestions came from a variety of sources (such as active members, lurkers, and passing visitors) covering a wide variety of topics such as language and post content that they had concerns about.
They stated their point of view and provided a lot of supporting information for the changes suggested. Although there were opportunities to present opposing view points, nothing convincing was presented and the vast majority of commentary was in support of the changes.

For the club to continue growing some changes needed to be made to not only attract members, but to avoid driving them away once they are here. It was a lot of fun being a small clique with big ideas, but now the ideas have outgrown what the clique can support on it's own.

One of the other issues that we have run into when seeking sponsorship and advertising support for the forums and club events is that many vendors and corporations are understandably image concious. To be associated with a club forum that is allowed to run with a "war zone" mentality does not benefit their corporate image or customer base.

From day one the club has been supported out of pocket by Justin and myself. This did not seem like a bad plan when we were not expecting the club to ever be very large, but that has all changed. To keep up with the demands of time and money that is associated with a club of this size have reached the point that too many personal sacrifices would be required to reasonable move any further forward.

All of these reason together have culminated in the recent changes to the forum rules. We certainly understand the views and sentiment of those who prefered the open rules we applied previously. Our hope is that you will all continue to particpate in the club forums, events, and fun that can be found here.

Many of the benefits of the new rules are already starting to show. The number of active users, posts, and threads per day, as well as the interest from potential site and event sponsors, have been steadily increasing since the rules roll out a few weeks ago.

Thank you all for supporting the NJFBOA. Please keep your suggestions coming in. Your ideas and assistance are the only way we can be sure the club site and events continue to improve and grow.

Thank you

Justin Tim
'Tru2Chevy' 'NJSPEEDER'

Please feel free to comment, however we ask that all posts be mature and any suggestions or criticisms be constructive. All posts in this thread not adhering to this will removed.

bubba428

02-12-2007, 11:37 PM

not to be sarcastic...but your going to censor a few naughty words...but having weight nazi under you user name...come on dude...thats 2 hits right there...fats and jews...even thought it don't bother me , being i'm not exactly in tip top...but still...u can't break you own rules and expect us not to...

enRo

02-13-2007, 12:59 AM

Many of the benefits of the new rules are already starting to show. The number of active users, posts, and threads per day, as well as the interest from potential site and event sponsors, have been steadily increasing since the rules roll out a few weeks ago.

Maybe a reason a handful of the "ancient" members / somewhat big posters on here are slowly disappearing?

:2cents:

This forum used to be much more exciting before people started being crybabies, thats what seperated NJFBOA from others, in such a good way, which is really why I dont post much anymore, because that feeling is gone. Unless Im missing something, I never really noticed a "warzone" here. Foul language... i use it alot. The basic "curse" words are found in PG-13 movies, and in order to register to the site, you HAVE to be at least 13 years of age... I dunno, it seems like the rules around here seem a little too tight. I feel like I log into a Christian forum instead of an Fbody forum. Take my "postcount" for instance... when I had my injury back in August 06... i hit the 4200 mark... 6 months have gone and I only posted a little over 250 since then (classified post count being removed too included, which is indeed bull too...) , and Im sitting on my ass all day!!

The people who cry about this stuff (I can name a cpl, but Ill keep it disclosed) practically BEG to get picked on, by posting how their day went, or doing somethign stupid with their car, or that they choked on a pea-pod and asking for advice on how to remove it (just an example, not to be serious).

I only visit this site nowadays to "lurk" and see if there are any Friday events happening here in North Jersey... thats about it.

Like I said, just my :2cents:

Knipps

02-13-2007, 01:02 AM

Rich189

02-13-2007, 02:49 AM

Tru2Chevy

02-13-2007, 08:12 AM

jimmyboy8301

02-13-2007, 09:40 AM

if I can control my mouth ANYONE can!

j0n

02-13-2007, 10:54 AM

Maybe a reason a handful of the "ancient" members / somewhat big posters on here are slowly disappearing?

:2cents:

This forum used to be much more exciting before people started being crybabies, thats what seperated NJFBOA from others, in such a good way, which is really why I dont post much anymore, because that feeling is gone. Unless Im missing something, I never really noticed a "warzone" here. Foul language... i use it alot. The basic "curse" words are found in PG-13 movies, and in order to register to the site, you HAVE to be at least 13 years of age... I dunno, it seems like the rules around here seem a little too tight. I feel like I log into a Christian forum instead of an Fbody forum. Take my "postcount" for instance... when I had my injury back in August 06... i hit the 4200 mark... 6 months have gone and I only posted a little over 250 since then (classified post count being removed too included, which is indeed bull too...) , and Im sitting on my ass all day!!

The people who cry about this stuff (I can name a cpl, but Ill keep it disclosed) practically BEG to get picked on, by posting how their day went, or doing somethign stupid with their car, or that they choked on a pea-pod and asking for advice on how to remove it (just an example, not to be serious).

I only visit this site nowadays to "lurk" and see if there are any Friday events happening here in North Jersey... thats about it.

Like I said, just my :2cents:

Quoted for a ton of good points.

As far as I'm concerned the bottom line here is that Tim and Justin have painted themselves into a corner regarding the club's "expenses". While domain names and hosting fees need to be paid, a variety of things that have put them into the position they're in were just wasteful spending. Take the Nats for example. I don't know of anyone that supported the idea to have 46 different race classes, and 65 different show awards. All these classes needed awards which i believe Tim and Justin paid out of pocket. Simply eliminating a ton of needless classes would have saved them money, and for anyone that attended the ECFBN, it would have lengthened the racing beyond 2 rounds.

As for the debt involved with t-shirt, hoodie, and calender sales, a pre-order could have been arranged, which would eliminate any out-of-pocket expenses for the admins. However, they chose to spend the money and order them without any preorders.

Basically my opinion is that you and Justin dug your own graves here, and making a ton of nazi rules in order to beg for sponsorship is not the only way out. Be smarter with your money, don't mandate check boxes before someone can post.

bubba428

02-13-2007, 11:32 AM

"Weight Nazi" refers to his cars, not member's waistlines.

- Justin

but how was i suposed to know that...i'm not saying he should chang it...just the rules are way too strick...

Tsar

02-13-2007, 11:35 AM

but how was i suposed to know that...i'm not saying he should chang it...just the rules are way too strick...
Rules don't apply to people in power, you should've learned that from politics.

so far rule number one seems to be: Don't argue with anyone from SS squad otherwise your post will get deleted.

enRo

02-13-2007, 12:09 PM

a lot of good points but i beleive what tim and justin will say is that is why we have the basement now.... anything goes for the most part if most of the big posters joined the basement (reguardless of how they feel bout paying for it) it would keep everyone happy and allow more freedom to post nws stuff then we already had

Shouldnt have to pay to curse lmao. *Not to be rude about not donating* ....

Tru2Chevy

02-13-2007, 12:18 PM

but how was i suposed to know that...i'm not saying he should chang it...just the rules are way too strick...

If you were unsure of what it meant, or offended by it, you should have contacted him directly in the first place.

Please provide examples and any ideas that you have regarding the rules. Simply stating that they are too strict does absolutely nothing to help your case.

- Justin

Tru2Chevy

02-13-2007, 12:20 PM

Rules don't apply to people in power, you should've learned that from politics.

so far rule number one seems to be: Don't argue with anyone from SS squad otherwise your post will get deleted.

The rules apply to everyone. We created this thread to welcome suggestions and criticisms from everyone, but we ask that they be offered in a constructive manner, or else they will be deleted.

- Justin

Tru2Chevy

02-13-2007, 12:24 PM

Shouldnt have to pay to curse lmao. *Not to be rude about not donating* ....

Nothing was designed for a "pay to curse" format. The new rules would be the same with or without the new Power Member program. They were created for the reasons outlined above....not to encourage people to give us money for the privaledge.

The Basement was created purely as one more perk to offer to members who wanted and were able to help support the club financially.

- Justin

BonzoHansen

02-13-2007, 01:12 PM

Rules don't apply to people in power, you should've learned that from politics.

so far rule number one seems to be: Don't argue with anyone from SS squad otherwise your post will get deleted.
Tsar, do you have anything constructive to add to this discussion? You certainly seem intelligent enough to engage in a useful dialog regarding the topic, yet to my knowledge you have not. Regardless of whether I agree with it, at least j0n offered up some actual constructive criticism involving the costs of the club.

Back on topic. So, what exactly are these ‘nazi’ rules you all speak of, and are the now oft quoted ‘good points’ really that good?

*You’re being asked not to use language most people would not use in front of their mothers or grandmothers. Is your vocabulary so stunted that without the use of ‘cuss’ words, you would have no ability to express yourself in writing? Are you that verbally challenged? I’d like to note that some of our verbally challenged members are often the first to jump on other members with perceived communication deficiencies, such as spelling & grammar or knowledge shortfalls.

*You are being asked not to attack other members, no matter how stupid you feel the post is. Just ignoring those posts would be too hard, I suppose? Or if it a technical post, is it that hard to disagree in a civil manner? Does the ‘handful of ancient members’ feel it is their duty to police the club and weed out the members they deem ‘undesirable’? Based on my experience here, it appears so. Why is it that when someone voices a different opinion, they are crybabies? I’d like to note that the group that enjoys doling out said punishment is rather quick to call other people Nazis. I find humor in this obviously absurd juxtaposition of thoughts and actions.

What else, did I miss anything? Oh yeah, (only) admins & mods are hypocrites. Right. :rolleyes:

Last I looked, no one has any inherent rights to be here, nor are they forced to be here. It is a personal decision. The sense of entitlement I get out of this general topic (not just this thread) is overwhelming and distasteful. No one is entitled to anything. Everything has a cost – be it money and/or time. By time I mean helping with events, building the club, and conducting yourself in a manner that is within club guidelines - guidelines members are asked to agree with before they can move forward.

So, based on all this, is this a growing car club for everybody, or is it a social clique for a small group that will let you in only if they feel you are worthy?

My hope is that it is a car club, and one wants to cast as wide a member net as possible. It can only benefit everyone. A wider active member base will make it easier for the club to support itself, such as this website, events, etc. Plus more members means more personal opportunities. From help with the car, to borrowing tools, maybe even help in a job search. I laughed when people were complaining about race drivers who got their job because of who they know, because that is how life is. You can either chose to know more people or seclude yourself. You never know who knows whom. Just because of experience, I’m not sure some of the younger guys know the real value of true ‘networking’ – not MySpace networking.

In order to continue moving in that direction, the message board, which is the club’s primary public face, needs to go a bit more mainstream. I don’t see anything being asked of a member that is not asked for at many other car sites that cater to a wide audience. You can choose to be a contributing member or not – it is your money and/or time. Your choice. If you do not want to contribute either, then perhaps you need to find another place on the web to hang your entitled hat.

I look forward to reading added constructive comments regarding this topic.

(one lunch hour down the tubes…)

88jerseyiroc

02-13-2007, 01:55 PM

Well this is what I feel. I came to this site looking for fellow members of F-bodys and american muscle. language to me means nothing. This is a free country and we should be able to express ourselves openly. Cursing is a part of life. If you need sponsers to raise money, then obviously to me that the club has grown out your control. maybe it is time to reconsider and rethink the money costs about running event sponsered buy NJFBOA. Since this club is solely a personal choice to join, and solely personal choice to read and post on the boards,you cant force people to follow rules that shouldnt not apply to anyone. For instance this is a public forum and is covered under the 1st amendment for free speech. These people who join this forum have the right to curse or have the right to argue about any topic that a member has posted, without personal attacks. I feel the stricter the rules the more people you let slip through your fingers. Already you have people complaining about the stricter rules. so is it worth it enforcing it just to comply with a bunch of crybabies??

So he is what i suggest, if you want stricter rules make the forum private and make every member donate something to post and then enforce the rules.

Make it an adult only board, when registering make the min age 18, which it should be because you shouldnt even be driving a F-body or any car before then anyways.

Go back to the way they were. to get back the people that you lost and losing now.

You cant force people to follow rules that they dont want to follow. If you are changing, enforcing the rules because you need more money, then you should look elsewhere then enforcing some Nazi like rules on a public forums, because doing that isnt going to help the current situation that you are in.

I hope this makes sense because i know I prob get ripped for something :)

armymp1983

02-13-2007, 02:12 PM

The whole cursing thing is ridiculous. Maybe back in the old days it was unacceptable. Nowadays it's even in PG13 movies. Hell, i mean heck even in todays military it is the norm. I never used the F-bomb as much as i do now before i joined the military. And yes i would use the same words in front of my mother. Why? because she is not and uptight person. Where do you think i learned to love cars and motorcycles??? My Dad and my Mom. Amen, no pun intended about this moving towards a Prude forum where "adult words are not allowed. We all are adults right?

Savage_Messiah

02-13-2007, 02:25 PM

I'd really like to know what's so crazy about the rules... every place you go to in your daily life has rules, too... let me run through these

First things first.....this is not a war forum.

We will not tolerate personal attacks against our members. We would also ask that you refrain from using confrontational language and/or phrases.

No off color or offensive language is permitted.

We ask that everyone conducts themselves in a mature manner.

No sexually explicit or suggestive content is is allowed. This includes pictures, links, signatures, avatars, etc. If you aren't sure about something, we advise that you err on the side of caution and keep it to yourself.

If you feel that another member has taken a topic or issue with yourself or someone else too far, please report the post(s) in question to the admins/moderators. This is done by clicking on the Report Post icon (the red triangle with an exclamation point) found underneath the person's username and avatar.

These rules can and will be updated as is deemed necessary.

Consequences for violating these rules will range from a warning to suspensions, and in extreme cases, a permanent ban from the club forums.

Thank you for your support of the NJFBOA.

Not a war forum... fair enough, flame wars are retarded

No personal attacks... only trouble comes from them

Offensive language.... this is where everyone's problems seem to lie, I'll come back to it

Conduct yourselves in a mature manner.... hey, most people here need practice with that anyway.

No porn - google it in, I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for

Report posts... I know that IMO getting a third party to mediate any potential confrontations is the easiest, least stressful and most fair solution

So with the language.... honestly, what's the big deal. It's very rare for something to completely and totally warrant a necessity to swear... if you think about it for a minute, the only reason people curse is for: lack of a better word, while thinking of what they'll say next, or for emphasis. If you wanna disagree here's examples...

"That's f****** up," "I'll "f*****.... take your f****** head and f******.... beat the s*** out of you," or "Jesus f****** christ, I wanna throw a diet can through that ricer's window"

Honestly, the less cursing you do the more intelligent you come off as to other people, whether the intelligence is actually there or not.

I know I myself would rather be part of something big, a name people know, which has a good reputation and awesome events than a bunch of people just sitting around doing the same stuff week after week, month after month. And who here wouldn't want to have shots at magazine coverage and big cash and trophy prizes?

I've made a lot of good friends through this club and had a lot of fun times, and I sure as hell am thankful for that. So the way I see it is, the more the club grows, the better things get for everybody. Nobody's saying you can't still hang out with the people you always have, no one's saying you're forced to invite 4578278948325634 people to your apartment for a party as opposed to the normal 10 or 15. I guess I just see the benefits of more publicity, more people, more opportunities outweighing cursing somebody out in every post.

You've gotta make sacrifices in life for anything you do, and that's the bottom line.

NJSPEEDER

02-13-2007, 02:47 PM

Take the Nats for example. I don't know of anyone that supported the idea to have 46 different race classes, and 65 different show awards. All these classes needed awards which i believe Tim and Justin paid out of pocket. Simply eliminating a ton of needless classes would have saved them money, and for anyone that attended the ECFBN, it would have lengthened the racing beyond 2 rounds.

2005 = 4 brackets and 1 heads up class
2006 = 4 foot brake brackets, 1 electronics bracket, and 1 heads up class
2007 = 2 foot brake brackets, 1 electronics bracket, and 3 heads up classes

that is not a whole lot of classes. the first year weather, or at least anticipated weather that never came certainly effected the turn out. the bad thunderstorms that were supposed to be around all day never materialized. in 2005 we also didn't give a dime to the track, they merely collected at the gate and concession stand and let us use the facility to run our event. island even was kind enough to put up the trophies for us.

last year i made some mistakes in getting the word out, and attendance suffered. i am not too proud to admit that my mistake was persuing sponsorship to try to put up prizes so much that i neglected to take time promoting to make sure people would be there to enjoy teh show. regardless, we had a good time, and once again island only collected gate and concessions money, adn we sort of split the cost fo trophies, island was stil kind enough to pick up more than half of that tab as well though.
for 2007 i looked to other for a lot of advice and i am going at things with a much more balanced approach. we opened up the racing rules by reducing the number of bracket classes and adding to the heads up racing that everyone seems anxious to see more of. along with the prize fund that the club is developing, we hope to see a large improvement in attendence and the quality of racing.

all three years the car show has cost little more than a few sheets of paper and a trip to the dollar store for some frames. island dragway, much like in the drag racing, has been kind enough to provide the class and best of show trophies for us.
with such a small investment it seemed the wiser decision to include as many prizes, and therefore winners as possible into the car show. the more people win something, the better the odds are of evryone having a good time and walking away with something they can be proud of about thier car.

As for the debt involved with t-shirt, hoodie, and calender sales, a pre-order could have been arranged, which would eliminate any out-of-pocket expenses for the admins. However, they chose to spend the money and order them without any preorders.

we have offered pre-orders on al three of the merch items you mentioned. the lesson of which was that a lot of people say they are interested in purchasing items, less than half of those who are interested are willing/able to preorder, the greatest number seem unwilling to buy until they see the prduct first hand, and even fewer seem to have any money on them the first time they see it and actualy decide to buy.
without sacrificing the quality of the products we are willing to put the club name and logo on, our only choice has been to front the money and allow the process of being paid back run it's natural course.

Basically my opinion is that you and Justin dug your own graves here, and making a ton of nazi rules in order to beg for sponsorship is not the only way out.

the rules were not made for the sole purpose of "begging" for anything. they are the result of requests from many members. when this topic was brought up,the members making the suggestions provided many examples of how the refinement of the rules and the evolution of the club would help to insure more growth and good times for everyone who participates in the forums and club activities.
the need for sponsorship to help the club continue to grow is a contributing factor that was a part of the decision making process, but not the only reason that was considered.
believe me, if justin or i had the money to support a clubthis size for the rest of forever out of pocket, we woudl never bother looking for sponsors. but that isn't the reality of the situation, and we see no need to lie about it or cover any of our reasons for coming to these decisions a secret.

NJSPEEDER

02-13-2007, 02:55 PM

For instance this is a public forum and is covered under the 1st amendment for free speech.

the user agreement that everyone clicks 'yes' on before entering into conversation on an open forum is actually a legal agreement to abide by the rules of the forum. by agreeing to the rules you are not giving up any right to free expression, which is what is actually protected by the first amendment, you are merely agreeing to do so in the manner prescribed.
basicaly, argue all you want. if it stays on topic, doesn't turn personal, and doesn't involved the language outlines as unapproved in the user agreement, then it wil be left alone.
the only other time we get invovled in editing/deleting/locking topics or posts is when other members report them to us.

BonzoHansen

02-13-2007, 03:00 PM

For instance this is a public forum and is covered under the 1st amendment for free speech.Just for the record, no it is not. That is not what freedom of speech laws cover. Technically, this is privately owned property. Just like a TV station can sensor what it airs. Just because it is on the web doesn’t make it ‘public’. You personally have no rights to free speech within this space. In fact, you agreed to sign away even more rights by agreeing to the site Terms & Conditions.

Hell, i mean heck even in todays military it is the norm.Um, the saying ‘curses like a sailor’ is rather old. :) I personally ‘curse like a sailor’, but I curb it when necessary.

I really can’t believe one can get so upset about being asked not to use ‘bad’ words. Really? Is it that taxing? That is the big complaint?

ins0mnia24

02-13-2007, 05:26 PM

I am glad I caught this.
1 thing I always liked about this site was some of the freedom in regards to a few cuss words here and there and some of you guys have posted hilarious jokes, pictures ect..
But other than that the enviroment here can get a little bit brutal.
I have 2 friends of mine in Jersey here that work for a Aftermarket company.
They took a few looks at the site and said screw that site it looks like a bunch of kids arguing.
I understand the New Jersey attitude and I understand this is the Internet
it isn't serious business.
But for a site like this that that attempt's to do more in regard's to Monthly meets, Track and dyno days it isn't such a friendly environment at times to certain members.
And it is exactly why I pass on Meets and Event's regardless if it is only a mile up the street from my house.

NJSPEEDER

02-13-2007, 05:29 PM

i hope the recent changes make you feel more comfortable and that you decide to attend a few of our functions.

90FormulaWS6

02-13-2007, 05:45 PM

to be honest, i have never had a problem with throwing in some flagrant language, i mean if posts are being deleted because there is a curse in it, then its a touch out of hand. Ive never personally had that happen so I cant comment or stand up for people that it possibly has or has not happened to. I dont really see the big deal. So there are some stars after the first letter, there are plenty of other forums that censor profanities anyway. all of the other "new rules" just come out of common courtesy or common sense... the way i see it is, i dont post that often so it doesnt make any difference to me, additionally if the new rules put such a strain on you that you cant abide, i would go somewhere else. finally, in terms of the paying members getting an extra forum, everyone should be happy that they dont restrict signature features, avatar abilities or w/e else they are able to restrict to only financially supporting members

Tru2Chevy

02-13-2007, 05:49 PM

enRo

02-13-2007, 08:32 PM

Well, Ill state here, what I told Tim earlier. NJFBOA back in its day, was more like a lounge rather an Fbody forum, where people with the same common interests got together on a site and just BS'ed. It had the feeling that... it was an added bonus that you owned an Fbody rather than this being a place of just strict Fbody-talks, reguardless of the New Jersey FBODY name, if anybody understands that. The environment was laid back, and not so uptight and prude, which made it an awesome experience to log on everyday. I dont get that vibe anymore, which is why I dont post much. Wasnt NJFBOA formed as a rebellion to www.njfbody.com because of the way things were ran on that site??? :shrug:

Now I get the vibe of, "Out with the old, in with the new" (member-speaking) REGUARDLESS of how the members who been here since practically day one were in fact the ones passing around flyers on other peoples cars just to help it grow.... and another example, I spent well over 6 hours making little icons for the forum out of good heart to give a better appearance for the site, yet us supporters since day one are getting no say in this "prude" enforment act whatsoever... instead, lets open the doors to kids who barely (if that) have their license to come on here, yap about something stupid they did, expect not to get flamed, and in return... GET flamed, and cry about it. They bring it on themselves. As it stands Ill still be lurking...

88jerseyiroc

02-13-2007, 08:50 PM

It is just that everyone is so damn PC, they wouldnt know a good time if it was sitting on thier face. Stupid kids that post, oh i got a ticket today crap , should get flamed for doing something dumb and then posting it so everyone can see, it just bring on themselves and then cry about. If you wanna change the feel of the site, made those dumb kids stop posting crap threads, which give some people the reason to flame them. Come to think of it there is no rule for posting stupid **** on the forums and yet we have to watch our language. Just sad that you set rules for one said party and then let the other party get away with stuff. too me that is a little unfair.

Cursing doesnt make you look unintelligent, this is social forums from what i am reading from BigDaddyKane, and should be treated like one. If you want a intelligent conversation head over to Starbucks and talk with the yuppies bastards there. I really thought this club was filled with gearheads, not some PC yuppie scum. I bet most of you at these meets curse all the time. If you say you dont, you lie.

WildBillyT

02-13-2007, 08:59 PM

You know, I can see why this is a major issue, but I don't really understand why people have such a problem being civil to each other. Flame wars and bashing are a part of board life, and I'd be lying if I said I never laughed over some of what was said, but if it gets out of hand it just leads to kiddie fighting. Tone down the nastiness, what's the big deal? Some of you are acting like this is an impossible, earth shattering request. It's not like the board is going to go all puppy dogs and ice cream. This is a CAR forum, not a quilting forum.

As far as donations, nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head. Posting is still free. If you want to throw in a couple of bucks, then go ahead, it helps out. If you don't want to give then you don't have to. Many clubs just flat out require dues, I'm glad we don't have that. It would also be nice to get some more sponsors, discounts and such.

NJSPEEDER

02-13-2007, 09:00 PM

88jerseyiroc, what purpose would it serve a club that is trying to reach out to f-body and muscle car enthusiasts of all ages to allow people to be flamed until they left?

the way to learn is to read and discuss. i know many of our younger members do not have the knowledge comperable to thsoe of us that have been around a long time, but you also have to understand that they are not going to attain more knowledge by being told to go away or made fun of when they ask a question. i sort of doubt anyone here rebuilt a small block with in 10 mins of jumping out of the womb, so i doubt most of us were much differnt at 14 or 15 years old than many of the younger members around today.

i would also like out point out that the no-flaming rule is not new. rules of reasonable conduct and treatment of other members were a part of the original user agreement as well. so it is defiantely waaaaayyyyyy too late to try to recall that rule.

your second statement seems to contridict your first point as well. you complain about stupid posts, then say that we shoudl head to starbucks if we want intelligent conversation? which way do you want it? stupid or smart?

last i checked being a jerk to people jsut because they don't know as much and swearing every other word are not requirements of being a gearhead.

88jerseyiroc

02-13-2007, 09:33 PM

NJspeeder you missed my point. I wasnt talking about question about stuff that members dont know about. i was talking about getting flamed for posting stupid threads like the cops suck because they gave me ticket, for example. Listen i know very little about working on f-bodies and that is why i came here, to get advice. Maybe make some new friends. I agree with you flaming some people for a good question is wrong and retaliating doesnt make it right either, but to ask us not to use a curse words here or there is just not logical too me. yes i agree with you that using a curse word every other word is just unnecassary.

i do apologize for not making my point clear enough, that it what i was talking about.

BonzoHansen

02-13-2007, 09:38 PM

Isn't that what the lounge is for, non-car/open topic posts?

NJSPEEDER

02-13-2007, 09:40 PM

sorry for misunderstanding you.

the language thing is certainly something that i can see where many people are coming from. personally, i swear all the time. i work on a dock, hang out with contractors, and work on cars. not exactly the social groups that envoke images of kindness and fair speech.
when the language issue was first brought up i was opposed to it completely. but after talking to the concerned members, admins of other forums, and seeing how much more successful the smaller clubs/forums were that went this route the decision became apparent that we needed to change.
i guess it is a semi-unfortunate twist to being more successful than we ever thought possible.
the benefits of the changes will become more apparent over the next several weeks. i hope that everyone who disagrees with the revisions in policy are willing to stiock around long enough to see the other side of the story.

Firebird67dude

02-13-2007, 10:13 PM

If I remmeber correctly at a few meets we had some of the head people that run this open forum were talking about some of the posts about a certain person. With in this conversation these head people would be laughing about it and make even worse comments. There are only two true head people in this club. So its bad to say something in letters and written words which the person will see, and it is ok to talk smack about that same person whenn they are not around? Doesn't seem right. not very moral. Even though I really cant't sayt hat either because some people view morals differantly.

I remember one time at the TRUCKS when a car that was tucking becuase it was filled way beyond its weight capacity smacked the curb and popped a tire. I know for a fact that everyone one of the NJFBOAers thatw as there was laughign there brains out, myself included. Wasn't very nice. I'm sure that those people would hate us NJFBOA ppl.

I'm pretty sure that everyone here that works on cars and is a wrench turner curse when they mess something up. So no curseing while working on cars guys.

Either way. I personaly had no problems with this new format but its a double edged sword and from what I've seen its ok for some people to act one way and not others.

88jerseyiroc

02-14-2007, 12:12 AM

Yes I agree that the lounge is for non car threads but what i am trying to point out is that some people post some whiney/cry baby posts and some one has an opinion about it and then cry about getting flamed. Just sad that some threads can be started in private between 2 people so the rest of us can keep calm and have the urge to flame the thread starter. causing us to break the forum rules :)

I am not a senior member, neither am I have read every thread on the board but it seems like favoritism is in fore front more then the language. In my opinion either the rules apply to all or too no one, cant have some people do and some cant. just my 2 cents

Tru2Chevy

02-14-2007, 06:50 AM

but it seems like favoritism is in fore front more then the language. In my opinion either the rules apply to all or too no one, cant have some people do and some cant. just my 2 cents

We try to be as fair as possible, but we are human too. A lot of the posts/threads that we "take care of" are reported to us by other members.

Please provide some recent examples of what you mean by the double standard you mention.....

- Justin

Tsar

02-14-2007, 07:11 AM

Please provide some recent examples of what you mean by the double standard you mention.....

- JustinToronto Maple Leafs thread, the 1st one.

BonzoHansen

02-14-2007, 07:44 AM

Toronto Maple Leafs thread, the 1st one.And you played no part in that? BTW, which of these rules were you 'enforcing' in that thread?

First things first.....this is not a war forum.

We will not tolerate personal attacks against our members. We would also ask that you refrain from using confrontational language and/or phrases.

No off color or offensive language is permitted.

We ask that everyone conducts themselves in a mature manner.

No sexually explicit or suggestive content is is allowed. This includes pictures, links, signatures, avatars, etc. If you aren't sure about something, we advise that you err on the side of caution and keep it to yourself.

If you feel that another member has taken a topic or issue with yourself or someone else too far, please report the post(s) in question to the admins/moderators. This is done by clicking on the Report Post icon (the red triangle with an exclamation point) found underneath the person's username and avatar.

These rules can and will be updated as is deemed necessary.

Consequences for violating these rules will range from a warning to suspensions, and in extreme cases, a permanent ban from the club forums.

Thank you for your support of the NJFBOA.

I'm still missing the big deal here.

Tsar

02-14-2007, 08:27 AM

I played no part in it, i pointed out someone elses mistakes. I can't delete posts like you or any other mods so there was nothing left to do.

rules broken:
1. We would also ask that you refrain from using confrontational language and/or phrases
2. We ask that everyone conducts themselves in a mature manner.

There's also the unwritten rule of no flaming, maybe you weren't a mod long enough to remember that one. And stamement such as "hockey sucks" is surely flaming and not an off topic disscussion.

I didn't make the rules. And as Justin said you have to follow them too. Any other questions you'd like me to answer?

BonzoHansen

02-14-2007, 08:28 AM

If you feel that another member has taken a topic or issue with yourself or someone else too far, please report the post(s) in question to the admins/moderators. This is done by clicking on the Report Post icon (the red triangle with an exclamation point) found underneath the person's username and avatar.You miss this one?

Tsar

02-14-2007, 08:32 AM

You miss this one?
no i did not miss that one, reporting the post of the Admin would do absolutely nothing. I still have no idea why the thread was deleted, instead tim's comments should've been erased and the thread should've been continued. What else you got for me chief?

BonzoHansen

02-14-2007, 08:35 AM

no i did not miss that one, reporting the post of the Admin would do absolutely nothing. I still have no idea why the thread was deleted, instead tim's comments should've been erased and the thread should've been continued. What else you got for me chief?You are wrong. J0n used it to report problems with one of his threads and I fixed it.

GP99GT

02-14-2007, 08:39 AM

omg, lets report an admins post to the admin...that'll surely work

Tsar

02-14-2007, 08:39 AM

You are wrong. J0n used it to report problems with one of his threads and I fixed it.
Alright, next time a non PG word is used and im offended i'll click on the button to see what happens. However if the administration doesn't follow their own rules it's going to make it hard for me to do the same.

Untamed

02-14-2007, 10:46 AM

Personally I support the new rules. I can definately see the issue on the language part, though I don't think I've ever felt the need to rip away with a string of four letter words.

I like Kasey's post. I think he hit the nail on the head with the direction and desires of the club on a go-forward basis.

NJFBOA is not only a social club for friends, its a melting pot of car enthusiasts who have a common interest with each other. That common interest pulls us together, but doesn't immediately mean we'll all be good friends. There's a professional element to this since the club is branching out beyond a few friends, to include businesses that may spend money to support our own f-body car interests. As such we, as a club with that common interest, need to decide if we want to include outside businesses that can help us enjoy our interests, or not. If we do, then we need to recognize their needs and desires and act accordingly.

There are lots of social-only clubs out there where the rules are perhaps less strict; but they also lack the common interest of being f-body enthusiasts, with ties to the professional community that helps bolster the auto enthusiasts interests. We don't need to act completely professional here, since this is a club and not a business, but we do need to recognize the type of behavior which will help us achieve our collective goals - enjoy organzied events that are supported by businesses who see these events as marketing or money making opportunities, all while "simply" enjoying the kind of cars we've come to love. Personally I think we can achieve both without any real hardship. I know I've enjoyed the club from it's earliest days to where it is today.

Noah pointed out some of his contributions - that's awesome. I'd like to help more, and will try to find ways. Keep it up guys. No one is saying you cant have fun, and no one is saying you have to change who you are. But you do need to be mindful of the rules, and try to work within them.

NJSPEEDER

02-14-2007, 02:34 PM

Alright, next time a non PG word is used and im offended i'll click on the button to see what happens. However if the administration doesn't follow their own rules it's going to make it hard for me to do the same.

so you "feel" like something is going to happen one way and that is your whle justification for how you act towards being asked to participate as the rules set forth?
if you actually payed attention half as much as you claim you would have noticed that all of the mods and both admins have been moderated at some point.
you have still failed to come up with any information or examples that support your position. you have been asked many times on AIM and even in this thread. it would be helpful.
many other members have layed out their concerns and constructive conversation has been the result. continuing to blindly make "nazi" and "ss" comments doesn't serve to support your position.
please feel free to provide examples of successful, small, club forums, that are open free for alls as you would like to see. i have a long list of sites i watched fail as a result of the sort of things you seem to desire seeing, but maybe you can enlighten all of us and find even one site that succeeded.

Pampered-Z

02-14-2007, 03:01 PM

OK, I usally stay out of these things, but this time I feel I must add my opinion to this discussion.

I really think it’s a good idea restricting language and conduct in the general forums and offer a "almost anything goes" forum. It makes perfect sense to me.

I didn’t join here just to post in a forum; there are plenty of other forums on the web for that type of interaction. I joined here because I wanted to be part of a local car club! I’m not a lawyer, but I think freedom of speech does not apply if you’re told there are rules to being a member. And if you want to be a member you must adhere to the rules of proper conduct. If anyone doesn't like the rule of the club, then why do you even come here?

I’ve been in other clubs that didn’t match me and I am no longer involved. I did not make it my quest to change others to suit me. This is exactly what happened to MAFBA. The Mid Atlantic F-Body Association has less members then NJFBOA, but any event could draw in excess of 100 members. Even when MAFBA came to the Cops~n~Rodders show members from Virginia, Maryland and the Carolinas came up. Then some members tried changing things, the club got split and instead of the members leaving, or the officers throwing them out, they were allowed to stay and eventually most of the members left and reformed other clubs and MAFBA slowly fell apart.

Right now this club is getting itself into a similar situation. The constant threads of bashing and lame rebuttals do nothing to help promote the club or its members.

Again, I feel this is just like the East Coast Nats. This was a perfect way to promote the club and its members, yet few showed? There were enough classes for everyone to race in as well as various awards, or just to be a spectator. I don’t think people actually realize how much time and efforts went into getting this to happen. How many other clubs can actually pull something like this off? Tim and Justin and a few others worked very hard on this, and Tim did a good job of building classes that will bring in more cars and keep racing fair and prevent class killers for entering. If you follow NMCA, in a few years they went from low budget racing to $100,000 + set-ups that now prevent the common folk from even making the field!

But back to the topic of this forum, I feel the bottom line is that Tim and Justin paid to do this, they should have ever right to decide what is and isn’t acceptable.

As already stated, when someone new comes to this board and sees it is nothing more then a lounge with constant fighting what would make them want to join? And if they don’t join, then the club has the potential to lose out. There are some very knowledgeable people on this site that bring allot of experience and know-how. And although this club and site is not exclusive to F-bodies, I do feel it is still a key reason why most people have joined. But all this knowledge can quickly get lost in all the thread hijacking!

So if anything deemed offensive could result in the loss of members, stop new members from joining, or possible sponsors from joining, then as club members and not just the club founders, we need to certainly address it. This also makes the Basement a perfect venue for post that may push the envelope of 'good taste" or "being offensive" It keeps the general boards open to the masses. While the basement is enter at your own risk. So if certain people are easily offended or thin-skinned, they need not enter. And if they enter they should have no complaints!

If you read all of the post about how these rules can improve this site, then all the post about allowing people to curse or bash other members openly simply don't hold up.

OK, I’ll get off my soap box now.

John

Brando56894

02-14-2007, 03:16 PM

Maybe a reason a handful of the "ancient" members / somewhat big posters on here are slowly disappearing?

:2cents:

This forum used to be much more exciting before people started being crybabies, thats what seperated NJFBOA from others, in such a good way, which is really why I dont post much anymore, because that feeling is gone. Unless Im missing something, I never really noticed a "warzone" here. Foul language... i use it alot. The basic "curse" words are found in PG-13 movies, and in order to register to the site, you HAVE to be at least 13 years of age... I dunno, it seems like the rules around here seem a little too tight. I feel like I log into a Christian forum instead of an Fbody forum. Take my "postcount" for instance... when I had my injury back in August 06... i hit the 4200 mark... 6 months have gone and I only posted a little over 250 since then (classified post count being removed too included, which is indeed bull too...) , and Im sitting on my ass all day!!

Well, Ill state here, what I told Tim earlier. NJFBOA back in its day, was more like a lounge rather an Fbody forum, where people with the same common interests got together on a site and just BS'ed. It had the feeling that... it was an added bonus that you owned an Fbody rather than this being a place of just strict Fbody-talks, reguardless of the New Jersey FBODY name, if anybody understands that. The environment was laid back, and not so uptight and prude, which made it an awesome experience to log on everyday. I dont get that vibe anymore, which is why I dont post much. Wasnt NJFBOA formed as a rebellion to www.njfbody.com because of the way things were ran on that site??? :shrug:

Now I get the vibe of, "Out with the old, in with the new" (member-speaking) REGUARDLESS of how the members who been here since practically day one were in fact the ones passing around flyers on other peoples cars just to help it grow.... and another example, I spent well over 6 hours making little icons for the forum out of good heart to give a better appearance for the site, yet us supporters since day one are getting no say in this "prude" enforment act whatsoever... instead, lets open the doors to kids who barely (if that) have their license to come on here, yap about something stupid they did, expect not to get flamed, and in return... GET flamed, and cry about it. They bring it on themselves. As it stands Ill still be lurking...

noah has alot of good points here, i had alot of stuff typed up but somehow the board screwed up and it got erased. i pretty much agree with everything he says here.

on the other hand, i see where tim and justin are going with the new rules. i had a convo with tim about the new rules and expressed my dislike for them and took into account what he was saying. stuff needs to be paid for, and for us to get more income things need to be cleaned up. myself i liked the club when it was smaller, but hell s*** changes, be it for better or worse, you cant avoid it. i dont like the whole no cursing thing and dont like the idea that we cant post anything that is NWS. ill abide by the rules, even though i dont like them. :|

one other thing i forgot to add: i like the idea of the basement, from what i hear its supposed to be like the lounge of yesteryears, the thing is idk if the older members that liked the way the club was before all this happened would be willing to pay x amount of $ just to post and joke the way they used to.

NJSPEEDER

02-14-2007, 03:54 PM

one other thing i forgot to add: i like the idea of the basement, from what i hear its supposed to be like the lounge of yesteryears, the thing is idk if the older members that liked the way the club was before all this happened would be willing to pay x amount of $ just to post and joke the way they used to.

as of now there are a few other benefits to the power member program. certainly nothing as big and fancy as we would like, but we promise to add more as things become available.
the reasoning behind including the basement in the power member program was the need for at least one very specific benefit that would interest people. it is something that came out of researching other member supported sites and the programs they run. i agree that it isn't the coolest idea ever, but it does seem to be helping so far.

and your post prolly timed out on you. if you type for more than a few mins the software thinks you have logged off because typing doesn't show as activity until you actually submit the post.

Brando56894

02-14-2007, 04:36 PM

BonzoHansen

02-14-2007, 04:56 PM

on this old board i used to go to and still come by every once in a while, has always had a "restricted area" and you had to have a certain post count to get into, and then there was another forum only for power members (mods,admins, VIP members and board junkies) which was even more secluded (for lack of a better word) i was looking at the "member benefits" thing and the benefits didnt really seem that enticing to me :2cents:
Like Tim said, we hope benefits will grow. We discussed what other sites do, such as restrict avatars or signatures (this was mentioned a few posts back), but they felt it was too big a takeaway. Tim & Justin were adamant about that.

So the only real takeaway from the members was foul language (basically 8pm TV safe/work safe) and attacking other people. Which really is not a big change. Judging from both private and public comments, we think this is being well received and will be good for the club. Just asking for somewhat civilized behavior and recognition from members that what might be civilized to the average 18-24 year old is not the same for many other people.

BonzoHansen

02-14-2007, 06:42 PM

...finally, in terms of the paying members getting an extra forum, everyone should be happy that they dont restrict signature features, avatar abilities or w/e else they are able to restrict to only financially supporting membersJust wanted to emphasize this sentiment, and add this: Many car sites also do not allow ‘kill stories’, as they do not want to be associated with illegal & dangerous street racing. That is also not being banned, at least at this time.

Mike

02-14-2007, 06:43 PM

actually the rules apply to everyone, i had a problem with a picture bonzo (a mod) posted and said somthing to justin (an admin) and POOF it was gone.

i think you all see my posts about the rules and like i said im playing devils advocate, if you think i just want to curse please go look at my 1200+ posts and find me the percentage that contain curse words.

as far as personal attacks go, that is my biggest problem with this forum but since i have already talked to tim at EXTENDED LENGTH about this, i have no need to air it out with anyone else.

basically although i agree with the need to raise money, i dont like that i have to pay money (that i may or may not have) just to get into a lounge where my friends are talking, i for one have bought at least $100 in merch, attended the nats, and offered the admins (who i consider friends off the web) other supplementation thats available to me...but all im told is "its a seperate donation"

bubba428

02-14-2007, 08:00 PM

ok...i'm gonna try and mix this up a bit...not in a bad way...i see both sides of this mess...justin and tim are only trying to do whats best for the forum...bonsohanson, i got nothing against you dude...i don't know you presonaly so this IS NOT a personal attack, but your coming at every one with a different opionion than you like a pit bull foaming at the mouth, u wanna talk about not flamming people just look at what u've posted here directed at tzar...i've not fully put my mind out so i've had my posts deleted...now...9 outta 10 posts from me is just stupid rediculous crap( is crap PC? jay lenno can say it) but its fun...so what if i get flamed i probably deserved it...(see cheesecake poll...i know its a cake) now to defend timmy and justin, there the 2 site heads...there only as human as the rest of us...now if we expect to be able to have theese meets we need to have sponsor backing...if i had the money to donate you guy would deffinitly have it...with out backing we can't go to places like the DYNO meet or the firkin...now if tim and justin can't have a site a company wants to suport where does that leave us guys...the screw balls that spend countles hours b.s.ing in the lounge...i do feel the language censorship may be too much...but it may be for the best...it all boils down to every one has a different idea of whats best for the site the regular users like me are at arms for the fact that we are lossing out good members cause there a corperate feel and its just not what it was...i joined in december...even then it was awsome...now its geting too up tight and and there are certain mods that are going WAY WAY too far with it an theres a certain one i feel is on a MAJOR POWER TRIP! now from the other side the best thing for the sites seems to be to clean up a little and present our selves as a community of F-Body enthusiest...and atract sponsorship that will allow us more exiting and interesting meeting...so theres a good intent that i see in this...i say we just let it go...and if it doesn't work the way its suposed to...i have faith tim will fix it...

BonzoHansen

02-14-2007, 08:30 PM

...bonsohanson, i got nothing against you dude...i don't know you presonaly so this IS NOT a personal attack, but your coming at every one with a different opionion than you like a pit bull foaming at the mouth, u wanna talk about not flamming people just look at what u've posted here directed at tzar......now its geting too up tight and and there are certain mods that are going WAY WAY too far with it an theres a certain one i feel is on a MAJOR POWER TRIP!

...now from the other side the best thing for the sites seems to be to clean up a little and present our selves as a community of F-Body enthusiest...and atract sponsorship that will allow us more exiting and interesting meeting...so theres a good intent that i see in this...i say we just let it go...and if it doesn't work the way its suposed to...i have faith tim will fix it...At least it isn't personal. :lol: j/k :lol:

I’m sorry you feel that way. I don’t think my attitude has changed one bit from the day I got here. No one has ever made that comment to me, and TMK, no one has told Tim or Justin, as they would have certainly brought it to my attention. I’ve gotten my hand slapped by admins too, so I know they will say something. Besides, you can’t be on a power trip w/o any power. :) I would never want to give that impression, since it is certainly not true. If I were a power tripper, I’d certainly be running amok at NastyZ28, where I am an admin. No complaints there, and I actually do have some power. If you feel there are other instances of my ‘power trip’ here, feel free to PM me to discuss.

BTW, I did not flame Tsar, here or anywhere. In this thread, I did ask him for constructive input. I don’t think most ‘flame’ posts call the flame-ee intelligent, which I also did, because I do believe he’s a smart guy. I’m sorry you feel I cannot be part of this conversation.

I’m glad you also see the ‘other side’. Many of us think it is important for the future of the club. I’m on board with the changes Tim & Justin want to make, and want to show them the support they need & deserve.

bubba428

02-14-2007, 08:38 PM

that right there is exactly what i'm talking about...if we could just bite our toungs for a while till the admins get it right it'll all be good...voicing an opinion is one thing...what i've been seeing is just wrong...people are useing it as an excuse to protest and make a stink...i'd rather see use return to normal and quit the petty bull

BonzoHansen

02-14-2007, 08:40 PM

Tsar

02-14-2007, 08:42 PM

so you "feel" like something is going to happen one way and that is your whle justification for how you act towards being asked to participate as the rules set forth?
if you actually payed attention half as much as you claim you would have noticed that all of the mods and both admins have been moderated at some point.
you have still failed to come up with any information or examples that support your position. you have been asked many times on AIM and even in this thread. it would be helpful.
many other members have layed out their concerns and constructive conversation has been the result. continuing to blindly make "nazi" and "ss" comments doesn't serve to support your position.
please feel free to provide examples of successful, small, club forums, that are open free for alls as you would like to see. i have a long list of sites i watched fail as a result of the sort of things you seem to desire seeing, but maybe you can enlighten all of us and find even one site that succeeded.

OK get off your high horse, pal. What support information do you want me to provide, other regioanl succesfull website? You do know that i don't really care about the internet, i'm not gonna go out and scout some internet forums that have "made" it. I DO NOT CARE. I however have been a member of quite a few forums where admins went all hi-wire and guess what? in their attempt to make it "big" they FAILED, members left and they closed their website because no one wanted to deal with their ******** anymore!

I call you a NAZI because you are one. It's your way or no way at all. You want examples, well how about the most recent one. When i pointed out that you broke your own stupid rule, you deleted the whole thread? WHY? you can't take critizism?
Another example? in the thread about "ghost riding" matt wrote a question that stated "what's wrong with the society today". After watching a video and observing a bunch of african american males i changed the sentence to "what's wrong with black people today?". I made a funny get over yourself, some people found it amusing. However my post was deleted becasue it was deemed racial!!! RACIAL? are you for real? I'm not allowed to refer to African Americans as Black anymore? Can you please point me to that law?
Another one? Remember Rons sig about Big Nig? remember how you told him to deleted? remember how he quoted you? remember how i made fun of you? remember deleting my post and not even telling me about?
Face it you've deleted a LOT of my post without even saying anything. Can i remember all of them, hell no. Did i get even notified? nope. No PMs and dont tell me you told me that over aim cuz you've been blocked for a long time.

Face it bubba, you'll never make it big. To make it big you need some people skill which you certainly lack. Is it just my opinion? not at all. Just as you claim that maney people talk to you about how horrible i am just as many talk to me about you. But like i said this is the internet and this is web space so do as you wish, ill just come back and laugh in your face when it fails. And im 90% sure it will.

Tsar

02-14-2007, 08:46 PM

BTW, I did not flame Tsar, here or anywhere. In this thread, I did ask him for constructive input. I don’t think most ‘flame’ posts call the flame-ee intelligent, which I also did, because I do believe he’s a smart guy. I’m sorry you feel I cannot be part of this conversation.

i dont feel like a was flamed. But then again i probably wouldn't care i only complain about internet stuff to make a "point". I do not take 99% of stuff said over the internet personally. Just like i feel others shouldn't, but i guess for some people it's hard to separate reality and the internet.

bubba428

02-14-2007, 08:55 PM

Face it bubba, you'll never make it big. To make it big you need some people skill which you certainly lack. Is it just my opinion? not at all. Just as you claim that maney people talk to you about how horrible i am just as many talk to me about you. But like i said this is the internet and this is web space so do as you wish, ill just come back and laugh in your face when it fails. And im 90% sure it will.

are you talking to me...i was defending you...and i never made but 1 of those claims and if i did you show it to me in writing...

Edit: now i can see why the admins keep deleting your posts...if half of the rest were this way i could imagine why

Blacdout96

02-14-2007, 09:01 PM

Tsar, what your beef bro? if you dont like what people said,or what rules they've applied, then go somewhere else. Since you said youve been to many sites and forums, well go sign up for another one, and leave the negativity out of this one. this is why I left CamaroV6.com cause of the negativity everyone brought to the forum. And as for you saying you dont care about the internet alot, 6,911 posts sounds liek you've not only spoken quite a few times, but spent a good amount of time writing them on here. Tim, Justin, you guys continue to rock on wiht the rules, I support the keeping the profanity to a minimum. Justin and Tim are not Nazi's and such. Why specifically Nazi's, all dictatorship parties, as well as democracy, uses rules, and censorship to keep everythign straight running. And its not completely gone, go to the new thread site they made up for 18+, but still, you dont need that much profanity to prove a case or tell a story.

bubba428

02-14-2007, 09:05 PM

i was on camarov6 for a good time bu there all just the same negativity your showing...and bonzo i was using you post to me as an example of how this should run...thanks

BonzoHansen

02-14-2007, 09:07 PM

i was on camarov6 for a good time bu there all just the same negativity your showing...and bonzo i was using you post to me as an example of how this should run...thanksGotcha, very good. Again, feel free to contact me directly (or Tim or Justin) if you have any issues (that goes for anyone) - negativity sucks.

Blacdout96

02-14-2007, 09:08 PM

Gotcha, very good. Again, feel free to contact me directly (or Tim or Justin) if you have any issues (that goes for anyone) - negativity sucks.

Bonzo<---- alright guy in my books lol ;)

Mike

02-14-2007, 09:10 PM

bubba, he was calling tim bubba......as to why he called him bubba, who knows, must be some russian thing

Blacdout96

02-14-2007, 09:14 PM

Just wanted to emphasize this sentiment, and add this: Many car sites also do not allow ‘kill stories’, as they do not want to be associated with illegal & dangerous street racing. That is also not being banned, at least at this time.

Yeah, I remember posting a kill story somewhere after they stopped doing them, and everyone and their grandmother yelled at me, but yeah you can gget in trouble just for posting kill stories, even if noone has evidence, its your testimony on the net. I didnt get in trouble, but never again. I found out to keep it on the track, and video tape it, that way its 100% true lol

NJSPEEDER

02-14-2007, 09:27 PM

OK get off your high horse, pal. What support information do you want me to provide, other regioanl succesfull website? You do know that i don't really care about the internet, i'm not gonna go out and scout some internet forums that have "made" it. I DO NOT CARE. I however have been a member of quite a few forums where admins went all hi-wire and guess what? in their attempt to make it "big" they FAILED, members left and they closed their website because no one wanted to deal with their b****** anymore!

you say you don't want to provide examples, yet you claim to have some. which is it? i watched the flame wars that tore apart sites like f-body chaos, nj camaro, nj thirdgens, and several others.
if you have the examples of clubs that people left because the administration wanted it to stay under control, please share them. i am honestly curious.
i also find it very odd that you don't care, yet you keep posting and talking about your opinion. to not care would, by definition, mean you don't have an opinion to share in the frst place.

I call you a NAZI because you are one. It's your way or no way at all. You want examples, well how about the most recent one. When i pointed out that you broke your own stupid rule, you deleted the whole thread? WHY? you can't take critizism?

my posts and the thread were brought to me by 3 different members on top of your posts. all stated that the thread was way off topic and shoudl be started over. i was in the middle of writing the PM to matt asking him to repost when the new thread appeared.
thanks for working under another blind assumption. i can see it is working out great for you.

Another example? in the thread about "ghost riding" matt wrote a question that stated "what's wrong with the society today". After watching a video and observing a bunch of african american males i changed the sentence to "what's wrong with black people today?". I made a funny get over yourself, some people found it amusing. However my post was deleted becasue it was deemed racial!!! RACIAL? are you for real? I'm not allowed to refer to African Americans as Black anymore? Can you please point me to that law?
Another one? Remember Rons sig about Big Nig? remember how you told him to deleted? remember how he quoted you? remember how i made fun of you? remember deleting my post and not even telling me about?
Face it you've deleted a LOT of my post without even saying anything. Can i remember all of them, hell no. Did i get even notified? nope. No PMs and dont tell me you told me that over aim cuz you've been blocked for a long time.

since you claim to remember and know all, you would be able to recall that we deleted a thread that was a series of ethnic jokes a long time ago because we got a whole bnch of complaints about it. keeping in line with the decisions made at that time, we have tried to avoid ethnically motivated commentary on the board.
i don't notice you on AIM right now, so i gotta ask, when did you actualy blocked me? i have sent you messages with in the last few weeks, that i am very sure of. i would have to dig through aim logs to see exactly when.

Face it bubba, you'll never make it big. To make it big you need some people skill which you certainly lack. Is it just my opinion? not at all. Just as you claim that maney people talk to you about how horrible i am just as many talk to me about you. But like i said this is the internet and this is web space so do as you wish, ill just come back and laugh in your face when it fails. And im 90% sure it will.

did i set out to become a millionare big roller by starting a web site with my best friend for all of my friends that share my hobby? nope.
as far as making it big in terms of the web, we happen to be one of the fastest growing, regioanl, mark specific web communities in the country. i think that qualifies as proof enough that the requests by membership and the ideas we get from other sites/admins are working.
we only set out to have a forum that woudl one day hit 500 members. since the club grew so much bigger than that original idea, we have to start thinking and planning bigger.
do we have all the answers, no. then again, we never claimed to. we listen to suggestions and weigh the supporting information to come up with the decisions that we feel are best for the club.

to be honest tsar, i can't see how i am supposed to jsut ow down adn follow your point of view. you offer no support for your position and you justify your claims by name calling or jsut going off about much things stink.
if you care to step up to the many requests for suport of your position, or a clear explaination of it beyond your continued "it's the internet" rant, please feel free.

bubba428

02-14-2007, 09:37 PM

i'm going to have to back tim up here...all though i would like to see what justin has to say...it a club that out grew it self...now its time to grow up

Tsar

02-14-2007, 09:53 PM

Tsar, what your beef bro? if you dont like what people said,or what rules they've applied, then go somewhere else. Since you said youve been to many sites and forums, well go sign up for another one, and leave the negativity out of this one. Don't you worry about me, im signed up on the other forums. And to answer your question why am i here. well ive made friends on this forum so i come here. anything else sherlock?

this is why I left CamaroV6.com cause of the negativity everyone brought to the forum. Would you like a tissue? or are you gonna quitely slit your wrists?

And as for you saying you dont care about the internet alot, 6,911 posts sounds liek you've not only spoken quite a few times, but spent a good amount of time writing them on here. My post count has nothing to do with me caring about the internet, i post and i post whore alot. what's your point? Me posting stuff on the internet has no effect on my real life, im mostly here when i do my homework, OMG i can multitask unlike some.

Tim, Justin, you guys continue to rock on wiht the rules, I support the keeping the profanity to a minimum. Justin and Tim are not Nazi's and such. Why specifically Nazi's, all dictatorship parties, as well as democracy, uses rules, and censorship to keep everythign straight running. And its not completely gone, go to the new thread site they made up for 18+, but still, you dont need that much profanity to prove a case or tell a story. If you seriously dont know the difference between the Nazi party and democratic party i wont waste any of my time on you. You need to go back high school.

So Tsar, if you dont like what Jersey has to offer, go back to the U.S.S.R , oh wait, that crashed in 89'.
is this the your best attempt to put me down? :rofl: i would laugh in your face if you actually said it in front of me. This is by far the lamest PERSONAL ATTACK i've ever seen on this forum. I mean if you said go back to Russia it would be ok i guess, but you're forgetting the fact that i am a US citizen you dimwit. I dont have to go anywhere. And where in my post did i say i didnt like New Jersey? please point me to it! How about you PM if you have something to say TO ME?! but we both know you dont have what it takes!

so what happened mods, i can get attacked in your almighty thread and nothing is done to it? OMG OMG OMG im gonna cry now and be a cry baby :rofl:

NJSPEEDER

02-14-2007, 10:17 PM

please remain on topic.

we have decided that this thread will remain open until friday afternoon/evening. that should be plenty of time for everyone to get their feelings off their chest.
at that point we will consider the matter closed, any ideas that come out of the thread will be discussed, and any changes deemed appropriate to the rules will be announced in the next few weeks.

Tsar

02-14-2007, 10:21 PM

if you have the examples of clubs that people left because the administration wanted it to stay under control, please share them. i am honestly curious. First one i joined in florida was FLSCC.com. google it and it will take you to this page http://home.cfl.rr.com/vividreality/index1.html
You know what happened. Justin (the admin) and his daddy with a brand spanking knew Porsche 996 thought they were almighty and kept having fights with everyone. Justin came up with ridicoulus rules and said he'd ban people. then the site was deleted shortly after that...

Another one, from FL too addictedtoboost.com

It actually still exist and i USED to be a member of it before the ADMIN decided to go high wire and DELETE EVERYONE. He said that you could go back after he's don reorganizing the board so he can "get big"... well the forum was larger then this one before he deleted everything. Now? well it has less then 200 members...

there was also dsmlife.com, after a guy with a handle of "aovsi" became a mod he went ape poop and majority of the members left. some went back to t00ners, and some created their own website. I dont think web site exist anymore. [/quote]

i also find it very odd that you don't care, yet you keep posting and talking about your opinion. to not care would, by definition, mean you don't have an opinion to share in the frst place. Well many people find this interesting but truth be told i'm just very opinionate, ill argue til i die for no reason, i find it amusing. And actually its very useful in all my classes. I once gave a speech about a round shiny ball, it was over 10 minutes long. If i talk about something doesn't really mean i care. When i truly care you'll probably hear profanity. I'm just opinionated, we can leave it at that. Find me a topic and ill argue.

my posts and the thread were brought to me by 3 different members on top of your posts. all stated that the thread was way off topic and shoudl be started over. i was in the middle of writing the PM to matt asking him to repost when the new thread appeared.
thanks for working under another blind assumption. i can see it is working out great for you.Once again im asking why not just delete your own posts?

since you claim to remember and know all, you would be able to recall that we deleted a thread that was a series of ethnic jokes a long time ago because we got a whole bnch of complaints about it. keeping in line with the decisions made at that time, we have tried to avoid ethnically motivated commentary on the board. Actually I THINK somewhere in the post that you quoted i said that i CAN'T remember all of the instances when you deleted my posts. so i cant argue with that. But come on, how does one get offended by a term that is commonly used even on TV. "Black" isn't an offensive word, believe me if i was trying to be offensive i would be much creative.

i don't notice you on AIM right now, so i gotta ask, when did you actualy blocked me? i have sent you messages with in the last few weeks, that i am very sure of. i would have to dig through aim logs to see exactly when. Don't remember when, i was talking to my girlfriend and people kept aiming me and it was pissing me off so i blocked a few and you were one of them :shrug: didnt get to unblocking yet.

did i set out to become a millionare big roller by starting a web site with my best friend for all of my friends that share my hobby? nope. Didnt you start this thing because you didnt like the conditions and rules of the other web site? i wasnt there but thats what people have been telling me.

do we have all the answers, no. then again, we never claimed to. we listen to suggestions and weigh the supporting information to come up with the decisions that we feel are best for the club. And ive expressed my point of view quite a few time, i dont think being strict with the rules will help you with new members, initially maybe but after some time people get tired to be bossed around.

if you care to step up to the many requests for suport of your position
i provided the websites that failed because of the administration. Those are the websites that i used to be a part of i'm sure there're many others, or maybe some that ive forgotten.

j0n

02-14-2007, 10:21 PM

:roll: you're going to change your mind about a rule you made up...i'll believe it when i see it

NJSPEEDER

02-14-2007, 10:36 PM

tsar, your examples point out that arguing with everyone drives people away, and mass bannings drive people away. i think those are both rather obvious points and well suported.
however, they are not really helpful to your position since we aren't banning everyone who doesn't agree with the new rules and we have explained several times that we are attempting to avoid conflict here.
also none of the sites you mentioned appear to have language restrictions. which is the only addition to the forum rules. which would be your only other point, which is still left unsupported.

since the new rules have gone into effect, we have had more new members sign up than in the last 2 months and the active member count has gone up by 40+ on average. that is the progress we were looking for.
perhaps your 10 minutes about a shiney ball were impressive to a teacher somewhere along the lines, but for us to make changes to the forums and the rules takes a lot more than some banter supported only by your personal opinion and examples that, at best, half meet the information needed to support what you feel so pasionately about.

we have been open about how the club was being managed from day 1. you had plenty of opportunity to share your opinions and assist in the growth of the club. if you like participating in the forums or meets, you are welcome to stay. if you want to see changes to the club and it's policies, please put more effort into supporting your position.

jimmyboy8301

02-14-2007, 10:36 PM

the changes have been made guys, just deal with em.

NJSPEEDER

02-14-2007, 10:38 PM

:roll: you're going to change your mind about a rule you made up...i'll believe it when i see it

as i told you before, i am not the one who came up with the ideas for the new rules. the changes were made at the request of many members and they supported their position very well.
if you care to go to the support forum the thread about language is still there, including my post stating that i was opposed to the idea.

you can blame me all you want j0n, but the club is growing and individual personal opinions are not what will result in the club's continued growth or success.

bubba428

02-14-2007, 10:42 PM

the changes have been made guys, just deal with em.

absolutly the truth

Tsar

02-14-2007, 10:46 PM

tsar, your examples point out that arguing with everyone drives people away, and mass bannings drive people away. i think those are both rather obvious points and well suported.
however, they are not really helpful to your position since we aren't banning everyone who doesn't agree with the new rules and we have explained several times that we are attempting to avoid conflict here.
also none of the sites you mentioned appear to have language restrictions. which is the only addition to the forum rules. which would be your only other point, which is still left unsupported.
Flscc did install language thingy, but what do you do when people keep breaking the rules? ban them. Ban a few too many and the rest will say goodbye too.

since the new rules have gone into effect, we have had more new members sign up than in the last 2 months and the active member count has gone up by 40+ on average. that is the progress we were looking for. Your "active" member definition differs from mine. I mean sure two girls signed up who talk all the time, some wayfast clones signed up. If that's what you really want then be my guest.

perhaps your 10 minutes about a shiney ball were impressive to a teacher somewhere along the lines, but for us to make changes to the forums and the rules takes a lot more than some banter supported only by your personal opinion and examples that, at best, half meet the information needed to support what you feel so pasionately about. my shiny ball example was in refering to how i can just get up and speak about anything. It has nothing to do with this site, it was just an example. [/QUOTE]

I feel like im done, ive shared my opinion and i already said its your website and not mine, I've seen THIS scenario play out more then one time. If you succeed good for you. If you fail ill come back and laugh at you like i promised. Good Luck.

Rafterman

02-14-2007, 10:53 PM

Theres nothing you can really do about it. People are always gonna argue about BS. Tsar's doing a great job of it right now. And all this talk about being a "long time member", shouldn't you be trying to help the club expand and broaden the horizons? This club had out grown the old system and was in need of new reconstruction. The rules seem to have cut down on alot of the nonsense normally posted. We should really be looking for the good things these rules have brought instead of shooting down the entire idea.

Mike

02-15-2007, 07:35 AM

this thread seems to be keeping Puffs tissues in business....it comes down to this.

if you dont like the changes = LEAVE
if you dont like the rules = LEAVE
if you dont like paying for the basement = DONT

other than that just give it up, signing on simply to argue and get people riled up gets you nowhere, and does nothing but put on page one the need for the changes.

before you guys started arguing with tim, many of the people that are agreeing with the changes DIDNT and now look at them....

its a simple thing to do, theres....ls1tech, fbody, f-body, ls1.com, ls2.com, nastyz28, firebirdv6, the other v6 forum, not to mention the regional forums...go pick another one if you hate it here

chevygirl80

02-15-2007, 07:44 AM

Oh ********************************* ****************** ******************. ********* thing timed out.
******. (Are asterisks ok? :rofl: )

I had a good first post too. Basically it outlined a few key points. I'm new here, so I'm not even going to pretend to know the whole back story. But from what I have read.....

1. This forum started small, I guess just a between friends type thing. And it grew bigger than any of the admins ever though it would.

2. That bigger group means there's even more variety as to what offends and what doesn't. I can empathize with the admins, even if I might not completely agree with some things.

3. My co-worker has a forum for us psychiatric counselors. And he told me he had to follow an agreement before he made the forum. That agreement holds him responsible for the content of his site.

For example, we've all the the "Dat N**** stole my bike" photo. Let's say someone posted it here. And someone got very offended (due to the N word), and decided to sue for racism. Not only would whoever posted it be in trouble, so would the admins for allowing it to stay on the boards. I don't know if this is true for the admins of this site, but that's the UA my co-worker has to abide by. Perhaps the admins here are just covering their arses. (Can I say arses?:rofl: )

The only way you'd be able to keep it as it was when it started would be to keep membership to a select few. And from what I can tell, this is a forum for people who own/like/love/adore/worship f-bodies. I like the idea of a basement, but don't really like that you have to pay for it. But that's my opinion. While I may not agree with some of the changes, I checked a little box that bound me to a UA before I registered. I am confident enough in my education that I can get my point across without swearing. Although I do have a mouth like a sailor. So until I cough up the money for a paid membership, I'll abide by the rules I agreed to follow.

I would feel rather....dumb....showing up to a meet in a camry though. Unfortunately I'm the only one in my family who doesn't own an f-body, though my husband has promised that maybe I'll be thrilled with my christmas present this year. So for now I'll stay away from the meets and events.

Sorry to ramble on in my first post on here...It's quite possible I'm completely wrong on this, because like I said, I'm new, and I don't know the whole story. :2cents:

:willy:

foff667

02-15-2007, 09:41 AM

Quoted for a ton of good points.

As far as I'm concerned the bottom line here is that Tim and Justin have painted themselves into a corner regarding the club's "expenses". While domain names and hosting fees need to be paid, a variety of things that have put them into the position they're in were just wasteful spending. Take the Nats for example. I don't know of anyone that supported the idea to have 46 different race classes, and 65 different show awards. All these classes needed awards which i believe Tim and Justin paid out of pocket. Simply eliminating a ton of needless classes would have saved them money, and for anyone that attended the ECFBN, it would have lengthened the racing beyond 2 rounds.

As for the debt involved with t-shirt, hoodie, and calender sales, a pre-order could have been arranged, which would eliminate any out-of-pocket expenses for the admins. However, they chose to spend the money and order them without any preorders.

Basically my opinion is that you and Justin dug your own graves here, and making a ton of nazi rules in order to beg for sponsorship is not the only way out. Be smarter with your money, don't mandate check boxes before someone can post.

I totally agree...I said from the start they shouldve just done something through cafepress...the profit margin wouldve been slimmer, but Ordering $1000 in hoodies or Calendars and then hoping to sell them in a couple of weeks or months time just isnt the smartest business decision in my opinion.

They brought up the quality of cafepress stuff...I bought an LS1tech shirt & hat ~3 years ago that I wear to this day that show very little wear...hat I think I lost at some point but was very good quality.

I've got a YEAR of hosting for ~$80 for my website with 1000gb of bandwidth...

As far as the nats goes a better agreement with the host would be their best bet...I mean if your bringing in 100 or 200 cars @ $20pop + food/drinks at the lemonade stand I would say the track is making some money off of the deal ;) why not throw the club $100-200 kickback money for getting the people there. That would keep the site running for at least a year from what I can see...and maybe even get them $ for keeping the software they use updated :shrug:

We also now have several sponsors which i know is bringing in a few bucks a month. Yes there have been a few threads on here that may have gotten out of control, in that case MODERATE THEM! We've got 2 admins & what 3 mods now for a board with 1000 members? Seems to be more then enough to keep the piece & keep the cursing down to an acceptible level if thats what this is really about.

In the end I think a wiser business plan needs to be in place unless your trying to make a living off of this site which I doubt can ever happen...at least at this point in time I don't see it.

Think smart guys.

Tru2Chevy

02-15-2007, 10:11 AM

I totally agree...I said from the start they shouldve just done something through cafepress...the profit margin wouldve been slimmer, but Ordering $1000 in hoodies or Calendars and then hoping to sell them in a couple of weeks or months time just isnt the smartest business decision in my opinion.

They brought up the quality of cafepress stuff...I bought an LS1tech shirt & hat ~3 years ago that I wear to this day that show very little wear...hat I think I lost at some point but was very good quality.

I've got a YEAR of hosting for ~$80 for my website with 1000gb of bandwidth...

We avoided Cafepress from the beginning because of past quality issues that Tim and I had both experienced with their products. We made the decision that we did not want to potentially sacrifice the quality of our merchandise for the ease of ordering that Cafepress offers.

Bandwidth is of very little concern to us. Most hosting packages that are out there have more than enough to support three or four sites our size. Running a message forum with anywhere from 50-75+ members on at any given time uses a lot of system resources (both CPU and RAM), and using a host like the one that your website is on would cause the site to be shut down for over-utilizing system resources every other day. You may remember that happening to us more than once near the end of our initial two year contract with our first hosting company. We had more than outgrown a shared hosting solution, and needed to find either a dedicated server, or a virtual private server to meet the website's needs.

If you can find a host that offers either a dedicated server or a virtual private server, and gets quality reviews similar or better to our host (Knownhost) for less than ~$400 per year, please, by all means, let me know.

- Justin

foff667

02-15-2007, 10:28 AM

We avoided Cafepress from the beginning because of past quality issues that Tim and I had both experienced with their products. We made the decision that we did not want to potentially sacrifice the quality of our merchandise for the ease of ordering that Cafepress offers.

Thats fine...then setup preorders & buy very few extras...if you don't get enough preorders don't order...that simple...if theres only a 50/50 chance you'll get your money back on whats purchased don't do it...from what I hear there are still T shirts left over & yet hoodies get ordered & then theres whining about "we don't have enough money to support the site" BS bad business decisions are costing money you don't have is what its coming down to.

Bandwidth is of very little concern to us. Most hosting packages that are out there have more than enough to support three or four sites our size. Running a message forum with anywhere from 50-75+ members on at any given time uses a lot of system resources (both CPU and RAM), and using a host like the one that your website is on would cause the site to be shut down for over-utilizing system resources every other day. You may remember that happening to us more than once near the end of our initial two year contract with our first hosting company. We had more than outgrown a shared hosting solution, and needed to find either a dedicated server, or a virtual private server to meet the website's needs.

If you can find a host that offers either a dedicated server or a virtual private server, and gets quality reviews similar or better to our host (Knownhost) for less than ~$400 per year, please, by all means, let me know.

point taken, I'll ask around though...im still a mod on some sites that have a good amount of traffic ;)

a few other notes
a. bubba428-chill out you went off on Tsar for no obvious reason other then seeing bubba in his post...otherwise it might be time to change your SN ;)
b. I really don't have a problem with conforming to any new rules...honestly I don't even know what they are, but new rules = change for some which most people don't deal with well especially on a "public" forum. I will say moderate their posts & if they don't then ban them...temporary or otherwise.
c. Stupid threads should be dealt with similarly to threads with personal attacks or cursing and you guys all know the recent threads that are popping up that im talking about.
d. I had a few other points but Im old & forgot the rest of them...besides my head hurts from just reading through all the pages of bickering about the new rules.

Good luck guys...hopefully it will all work itself out in the end.

firehawk1120

02-15-2007, 10:54 AM

Well, once again i have to say it seems like the majority of the people who have a problem with the rules are the ones who have nothing of intelligence to add to the forums. All they want to do is attack people, make fun of them, drop f-bombs left and right, and pretend it's their own personal abuse site with their 3-4 friends (clique).

The more adult / mature people can see how acting like civilized human beings is in the best interest of all involved. I'm all for joking around and busting chops and goofing around with people, but when it gets to be malicious and degrading which I think some people get off on then it's just not fun for people anymore.

For the people who can't control themselves and think they are hanging out with their frat brothers on a Fri. night getting drunk if you don't like it don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

For the rest of us we will continue to have fun, share information, eventually when the weather warms up start going to gatherings, and generally have a good time.

I congratulate Tim & Justin on the improvements and hope the unwanted eventually make good on their promises and disappear. In the meantime I'll continue to use the ignore feature so I don't have to read their pathetic posts.

Welcome to all the new members and good luck on a bright future NJFBOA.

:bbq:

Untamed

02-15-2007, 11:09 AM

Like I said....I'm not showing up to an F-body meet in a Camry. :rofl:

That would be a :nono:....

LOL I do exactly that!

But I do own a Trans Am, even if it isn't currently roadworthy (due mostly to lack of proper documentation). The club looks past the daily drivers and just welcomes people in who are at least remotely interested in f-body cars. That's what I like most. A bunch of folks here are real gear heads, some of whom do it for a living. But the rest of us are just enthusiasts; and whether we get our hands dirty or not doesn't really matter.

Don't let the Camry stop you from joining in the fun. Doesn't stop me.

1988 Trans Am
2005 Camry

BonzoHansen

02-15-2007, 08:22 PM

By request, I cleaned up a lot of the off topic posts. If anyone has any more requests, or questions, please feel free to PM me. Carry on.

NJSPEEDER

02-15-2007, 09:11 PM

Thats fine...then setup preorders & buy very few extras...if you don't get enough preorders don't order...that simple...if theres only a 50/50 chance you'll get your money back on whats purchased don't do it...from what I hear there are still T shirts left over & yet hoodies get ordered & then theres whining about "we don't have enough money to support the site" BS bad business decisions are costing money you don't have is what its coming down to..

if we did it that way we would have ordered 14 t-shirts, 8 hoodies, and 22 calendars.
people don't preorder and it is illogical to go back and reorder only to wait again, especially when the result would be t-shirts that cost $30 each because of set up fees and no discounts for ordering quatities.
there is a pattern of people not being these items until they can see them in person. that is why we are willing to order them and let the money be paid back. the t-shirts made their money back and a little bit extra for club expenses and the hoodies will work out the same way.
what we need to do is get caught up and start putting a little bit of money away for the club so that we can plan better events and activities and get the club inorporated properly without having to wonder where the money is coming from.

i can't explain how much fun it is helping to run this club and if i had the money to pay for it all out of pocket i would do it happily. it has just outgrown what justin and i can afford to cover.