Dry Sump Oiling???

[NJSPEEDER]

jsut wondering if anyone has any knowledge they can share about dry sump oiling a gen1 SBC?
how much can the engine be lowered in the cradle?
how much extra oil capacity is there?
how far away can the oil resevoir be from the motor? back of the car?
how much, if any, power is free'd up or lost compared to wet sump oiling?
is there any significance to 4 vs 5 vs 4.5 vs 3 vein pumps?

my research is only turning up general information about the pumps and pans for the most part, looking for actual application info.

-Thanks

[Blackwizard222]

jsut wondering if anyone has any knowledge they can share about dry sump oiling a gen1 SBC?
how much can the engine be lowered in the cradle?
how much extra oil capacity is there?
how far away can the oil resevoir be from the motor? back of the car?
how much, if any, power is free'd up or lost compared to wet sump oiling?
is there any significance to 4 vs 5 vs 4.5 vs 3 vein pumps?

my research is only turning up general information about the pumps and pans for the most part, looking for actual application info.

-Thanks

how much can the engine be lowered in the cradle?
Approx 6 inches, basically minus the sumped part of the pan.

how much extra oil capacity is there?
Depends on what size resivoir you use.

how much, if any, power is free'd up or lost compared to wet sump oiling?
The average dry sump set-up has the ability to scavenge 2 to 4 times the volume that it pumps into the engine. This causes negative crankcase pressure, which gives you horsepower. Dry sump systems also offer a more stable supply of oil in all conditions since there isn’t a rapidly spinning crankshaft located right above the oil.

The negative pressure is similar to that of a vaccuum pump, so net gain can be from 10-20 hp. However you will have much cooler oil than a wet sump.

[johnjzjz]

how much can the engine be lowered in the cradle?
Approx 6 inches, basically minus the sumped part of the pan.

how much extra oil capacity is there?
Depends on what size resivoir you use.

how much, if any, power is free'd up or lost compared to wet sump oiling?
The average dry sump set-up has the ability to scavenge 2 to 4 times the volume that it pumps into the engine. This causes negative crankcase pressure, which gives you horsepower. Dry sump systems also offer a more stable supply of oil in all conditions since there isn’t a rapidly spinning crankshaft located right above the oil.

The negative pressure is similar to that of a vaccuum pump, so net gain can be from 10-20 hp. However you will have much cooler oil than a wet sump.



we have done very little on car motors with dry sump systems -- having said that i won 3 AMA nationals road racing motorcycles as the team manager and crew chief -- and i understand what and Y its done -- the power loss ratio to gain is greater but for reasons not menchioned -- wet system oil volumn being thrown around in the pan drags the crank and rotating assembly ( u can run faster in water up to your ankles than up to your knees ) dry + -- # 2 little known and talked about is pluses in vacumn -- the vacumn created in the pan actually sucks the piston rings out on to the cylinder wall ( oil ring for the most part ) reason low tenchion oil ring was developed -- also the evac of any and all of the oil in the motor gives it free spin ability --- dry + -- as far a oil temps go the more plumbing used the the longer the hosing ends up being and the fittings need to be flowed mandrel bends the more air bubbles and foam to deal with -- we found the hoter the oil runs the more volumn is in contact with the bearings ( Flat style car type ) so like i said not to up on car motors but their is a two hour read on affects and issues i had seen one time no longer have it but its not what many end up with as a benifit -- but racing is a monkey see monkey do -- and sometimes its for the better NOT always -- jz

[Fast92RS]

I know the LS7 motor for corvettes is a dry sump system. I wonder if that set up similar to what it would be on a gen 1 motor.

[Ian]

the dry sump system thats on the LS7 doesnt use an external oil pump, the oil pump is still in the motor.

as far as the differences between a 3 stage pump and a 5 stage pump...the numbers refer to how many ports the pump has to feed back into the engine. with a 3 stage pump, you'll be able to run 3 seperate oil lines to the motor, with a 5 stage pump you can run 5 lines. at least that is my understanding of it :lol:

[NJSPEEDER]

thanks for the help guys. now all i need is the few thousand bucks to build this motor in real life(few thousand = about $23k worth of parts alone)

[johnjzjz]

thanks for the help guys. now all i need is the few thousand bucks to build this motor in real life(few thousand = about $23k worth of parts alone)

what is it you are atempting to build ???? did the site i sent help at all ?????

[NJSPEEDER]

i got bored one night(i am an insomniac) and i decided to see how much theoretical power i coudl make out of 350-358 cid, N/A, with no budget restrictions.
the result was aluminum block with roller cam bearings, titanium connecting rods, and all the other coolest toys i could find prices on. there are a few things that i coudln't find prices on that i would like to do/get into the motor.
anyone know where i can get a block machined and roller bearings pressed onto a crank? lol

[johnjzjz]

i got bored one night(i am an insomniac) and i decided to see how much theoretical power i coudl make out of 350-358 cid, N/A, with no budget restrictions.
the result was aluminum block with roller cam bearings, titanium connecting rods, and all the other coolest toys i could find prices on. there are a few things that i coudln't find prices on that i would like to do/get into the motor.
anyone know where i can get a block machined and roller bearings pressed onto a crank? lol

HARLEYS HAVE ALL ROLLERS IN BOTTOM END CRANK AND RODS AS WELL AS LIFTERS -- but the crank is pieced it un bolts and pins can be replaced as well as checked for size and the rollers are in - tenths -- for sizing -- chevy crank it one piece no way to install and house shouch i thing -- now charley weston in jersey can install ( timkin roller ) bearings in the block for the cam and some say it does something ???????????? but in the motor did you under 3 inch the stroke 6.5 the rod and make it a 12 thousand RPM buzz saw hahahhahahahaha

[NJSPEEDER]

i have wanted to rollerize the crank in an SBC even since i read about the process toyota used all the way back in the 70's to rollerize some of their racing stuff. they also had lite weight cranks to go along with it of course and oiling was modified since rollers don't need as much sauce to keep cool and happy.
they used caged, needle style rollers. i think the theaory of it's effectiveness could be tested by machining down a crank to accept the rollers and do low rpm testing. big bearings and a full bearing surface crank woudl obviously be wanted to really buzz the thing though. :)

[johnjzjz]

i have wanted to rollerize the crank in an SBC even since i read about the process toyota used all the way back in the 70's to rollerize some of their racing stuff. they also had lite weight cranks to go along with it of course and oiling was modified since rollers don't need as much sauce to keep cool and happy.
they used caged, needle style rollers. i think the theaory of it's effectiveness could be tested by machining down a crank to accept the rollers and do low rpm testing. big bearings and a full bearing surface crank woudl obviously be wanted to really buzz the thing though. :)

THE SV650 suz we campaigned in 2000 that we won 2 AMAs with, had some very tough rules about mods -- but they didn't say anything about bearings on the crank -- so i had to waste a new crank in order to get the surface rock well tested for hardness -- we needed an R65 to be able to run the crank on timkin closed bearings like you mentioned -- so i was in a pickle i could not let anyone in the USA help with what i wanted -- eyes and ears will steel anything you do ya know =-= so i used a guy in england -- and a bearing company in Germany -- so as we could take out the flat crank bearings on the crank and Lazar cut holes in the timkin shields in order to oil also grooving a thouft had to be done and i jetted the crank -- the bike that year 2000 with a totally stock motor cept for carbs and cams and thats all we could do was 17 MPH faster that any other bike in the US including the factory's bike --At mid Ohio the bike when we let it all hang out in the nationals knowing they were coming after us, anyway. in a complete tear down every screw we finished 42 seconds in front of second place bike it was also on the straight getting up to 169 MPH on a 2.7 mile road coarse with 12 turns hahahahahah last year i raced bikes --- we had to prove my 2 car garage could put the factorys with the girls and umbrellas in the trailer hahahhahaha -- we won back to back 2 AMA #1 plates in 2 diff classes with only one bike in the same year -- ya think -- it would do all of what you think ( BUT ) now think about this -- ever spin a bearing on your finger and it will walk it around if you get the speed high enough -- well we had that problem in the corners the bike was gyro leaning at 12,000 RPMs -- making the rider -- back it in ( like flat tracking but a lot faster and on pavement ) it super heated the tires to the point he almost lost control between the gyro pull and the sliding in order not to gyro it was a hand full to ride -- reason i stopped it would have killed him if i didnet --jz