What local shop to use for rebuiding LT-1?

[97ws6]

My LE-2 Setup is due to arrive next week, i have a spare stock shortblock i would like rebuilt ,so i can bolt on My LE-2 Heads, and install in my car, this way i dont have to rip apart my motor. I was thinking of buying the Summit LT-1 rebuild kit, and having a local machine shop do the machining, and put together the shortblock. Anybody know of a good one?

[JSPERFORMANCE]

dont get the Summit kit it is composed of the cheapest parts available, that is why its CHEAP!
We really don't even use "Kits" here I usually pick and choose the best parts for the particular job I am doing...

[97ws6]

Federal mogul bearings, and sealed power pistons and rings, and felpro gaskets are whats in the Summit Kit. Are these cheap? I am trying to put together a reliable rebuilt shortblock for a reasonable price. I am looking to spend 800.00 to 900.00 for the machine work an assembly, and 400 to 500 in parts. If i cant get a shortblock built for that, i will go to Golen and get his 355, or 383 for $2500.00. Chad builds great motors, and has a good reputation. I have put this post up before, and had very little response, i guess nobody gets there motors rebuilt anymore, they must be going with shortblocks.

[bubba428]

federal mogul is really good, so is sealed power, fel-pro is awsome. i thing JS was refering to the heads and performance kits

[97ws6]

Yea i know Summit sells some cheap stuff, but the engine kit looks OK. What local shop can do a quality LT-1 rebuild for a fair price? You know the LT-1 shortblock isnt a whole lot different that the Gen 1 motor when it comes to a rebuild, its my understanding that the crank, and timing set are the only difference.

[j0n]

Yea i know Summit sells some cheap stuff, but the engine kit looks OK. What local shop can do a quality LT-1 rebuild for a fair price? You know the LT-1 shortblock isnt a whole lot different that the Gen 1 motor when it comes to a rebuild, its my understanding that the crank, and timing set are the only difference.

PM unstablebobgable. He recommended a shop to me that's in the area.

[JSPERFORMANCE]

I think your expected budget is a bit low either way. The Summit kits can come a few different ways. Sealed power is decent as well as fel pro. You cant really order the pistons until you see how the block cleans up. I also dont know many builders that allow the customer to supply their own soft parts, I know we dont. Every builder has parts that he preferrs to use and when the customer supplies their own it makes the builder have to try to make those parts work rather than ordering what he knows will work. Whoever you decide to use just bring them your hard parts and let them do their thing. If you dont trust them enough to get your parts you shouldnt trust them to build you an engine.

[johnjzjz]

almost all the shops owners i talk to at the track i have known for years -- wont assemble a you bring your own parts motor - they will only do the machine work and hand it back to you - to many things can go wrong than the customer wants a guarantee on the whole motor for a couple hundred bucks -- i don't think so -- better find a shop before you start shopping -- jz

[JSPERFORMANCE]

that s what I was trying to say... just a little nicer! lol

[Bandit]

just buy a crate motor, maybe cheaper.

[johnjzjz]

that s what I was trying to say... just a little nicer! lol

it is what it is

[njcamaroz2895]

I am having my LT1 rebuilt and stroked to a 383 with new rear gears stall converter,headers new gm distributor, balanced/blueprinted for under 5 grand, the motor is 3075 complete from a guy in maryland about 25min from delaware memorial bridge, this guy delivers a complete turn key setup with the computer done by PCM for less.If you want his info let me know, my car will be producing about 430hp

[97ws6]

Yea i here you guys, its exactly what i was thinking, nobody wants to do the work, unless they sell you the parts, because they make money on that to. Its not enough to just make money on the machining, we live in Jersey, so now we are talking 2 grand to do a shortblock. I know what the parts cost, and i know what others are charging for the machine work. I am looking to build a 355 lt-1, with LE-2 Heads, and cam. I would like to get just the machine work done, i will assemble it myself, i need the block cleaned and Magnafluxed, punched 30 over, line honed, decked, and cam bearings installed. That should come to $600 TO $700. I will assemble it myself, not a problem. Who here has had this type of work done? Who did the work?

[JSPERFORMANCE]

Your estimate is still a bit low.

[97ws6]

Really, this is Golens chinese menu

Block work:

Oven Clean, Shot Blast & Mag Block $80

Bore & Hone Block $300

Deck V-8 Block $80

Align Hone Main Line $150

Install pistons on rods v-8 (8) $40


Resize V-8 rods (per 8) $130

[johnjzjz]

the last shop i had in hackensack 15 years ago the town permit to operate an auto shop yearly was 1200 bucks city water was another 250 a year garbage was 90 bucks a month elect was 800 a month oil was 6000 per year year when it was 75 cents a gallon - not counting insurance, hospital plans for the guys, and stupid stuff like that - i guess your right wanting to sell parts as well letting - my kids eat - yep rip off in jersey you bet -- jz

[97ws6]

Hey i didnt say you were ripping anybody off, you said that, 6-700 a day, for one engines worth of machine work ,is 12 to 14000, a month, do 2, and its 24 to 28000 per month, thats 20 working days, not counting Saturday. I know how hard it is to live in Jersey, i have a daughter in college, and 2 grandkids, thats why i dont want to pay 2 grand for one days work!

[johnjzjz]

Really, this is Golens chinese menu

Block work:

Oven Clean, Shot Blast & Mag Block $80

Bore & Hone Block $300

Deck V-8 Block $80

Align Hone Main Line $150

Install pistons on rods v-8 (8) $40


Resize V-8 rods (per 8) $130



Oven Clean, Shot Blast & Mag Block $80

i am not picking on your pal but you might want to know the electric to run the shot machine not counting the steel shot is 35 bucks and the electrolyte for the mag gun is 125 bucks a 5 gallon pail yes it lasts a while --

and it takes a competent guy an hour and a 1/2 to do up a set of rods after they have been cleaned bases ground new bolts installed - not counting weather you put bushings in the small ends and size them as well to spec than both ends are matched in their overall length so the motors deck hight is correct length wise -- well maybe its just the out of control way we do it in jersey -- jz

[johnjzjz]

Hey i didnt say you were ripping anybody off, you said that, 6-700 a day, for one engines worth of machine work ,is 12 to 14000, a month, do 2, and its 24 to 28000 per month, thats 20 working days, not counting Saturday. I know how hard it is to live in Jersey, i have a daughter in college, and 2 grandkids, thats why i dont want to pay 2 grand for one days work!

i am also not a young guy - but my retired shop labor rate is 2800 per week on avarage - you pay for talent in the real world -- not excuses -- jz

[97ws6]

Again i know how much it costs in New Jersey, so whats going to happen, everybody is going to go out of town, and buy a shortblock. If i have to spend 2 grand for machine work, and assembly of a shortblock, i may as well just buy a shortblock, have you seen Golens warranty?

[JSPERFORMANCE]

In my experience you always get what you pay for. Shops that have a lowball price sheet usually either half ass the work or call you later and say things like "the generic prices dont apply to your engine because of ****". Do what you want but jz and I are just giving you advise based on our experience.

[Pampered-Z]

Below is what was on the invoice from 2002 for my stroker. it was done by Nutech in Ohio, but Nick is no longer open??? But I don't know if the prices would change if they didn't do all the work? Also, I dropped over 5G's total with all the parts I bought.

Bake/clean and wash block - $50
Mag block - $50
Bore and Hone block -$75
Install 4 bolt main caps - $75
Deck block - $50
Clearance for stroker - $125
File fit rings - $50
Balance assembly - $250
Assembly Rotating assembly - $200
Misc - install freeze plugs, cam bering etc - $50

I don't see balancing in your budget?

As far as the budget for parts, I think you need to look more at cost. Without looking and internals such as bearings, piston, rings, Just a straight cam install on an LT1 gets expensive. You need to either go GM extreem duty for $250 or go double roller and electric water pump (still about
$250) With an LE2 your going to need to spin the engine to 6400 RPMs, more then you want to push the stock single roller chain. All the seals and gaskets will run you close too, if not over $200.

[jwscab]

these guys certainly seem to be jumping down your throat for what is probably a couple hundred dollars in error, IF you are assembling this yourself.

I would say your estimates are close, for machine work and soft parts. Maybe a couple hundred more depending on the shop you go to.

realistically, the summit kit is just fine. If you happen to have the pistons in hand, then sure, the machine shop can make sure the bores have the best nominal piston to bore clearance. Otherwise, there is nothing wrong with the rings, the bearings, or the gaskets. The pistons, if you get forged ones, are just a little heavy, but are good if you ever plan to hit it with spray.

I use a machine shop guy down near Mt Holly, but I don't actually know the name of his shop! his name is Gil. I have also used martyn motors with no major problems. The yellow pages will get you what you need, if you can visit the place, all the better.

If you aren't sure what you are doing, it is usually best to have an experienced guy assemble it for you, there are some fine details that need to be paid attention to, but if you have the drive, its easily accomplished.

there are a couple of good points so far here though....a better timing chain might be worthwhile.

it seems like everyone goes to shortblocks these days. its due to either not knowing enough about it, or just not caring but having the cash. sometimes, its not enough space to build an engine, the list goes on. of course, don't forget all these fast racer types that scare you into thinking if its not super forged billet splayed 18 bolt-main titanium girdle that it won't last on its way to the local convenience store....

[johnjzjz]

wow now i have been told the truth --the guys who do work for nothing and no one remember the name of the shop are the real ones to use -- yep i got it -- AND now i know the reason we spend hours in the staging lanes waiting for the debris to be cleared - i have always heard the term - from whats his name shop -- i stand corrected - jz

[njcamaroz2895]

I found a great mechanic in Maryland , believe me I researched the entire NJ and NY area, prices were very high for a modest LT1 rebuild ,remember if you have the motor out of the car you might as well build it the way you want before it goes back in instead of a half ass job and then spending more money later because it is not fast enough or breaks down.But everyone up here charges you for just opening the hood and looking at your ride.
My guy uses the same exact parts as some of the locals up here but doesn't get greedy with profit and he does it all trans,gears,etc...

[97ws6]

I didnt really feel like Johnjz was jumping down my throat, he is just echoing the pains of living, and running a business in NJ. I guess i am old, when i was in my early teens we did it all ourself, except for the machining, my buddy owned an auto parts store, we got all the parts cheap. Well that was 30 years ago, those days are gone, i really want to do this right, the LE-2 setup was 1800.00, the parts to go with it were another 1500.00, i am just running out of money right now, so i figured i would do the shortblock myself. Hell i am already into it for 3300, if the shortblock is going to cost over 2000, i could have just bought a Golen 383 Longblock, and did no work. I derive a certain amount of pleasure doing this stuff myself, i am 48 yrs old and have never had a car in the shop, i fixed them all, i used to do bodywork for a living, and i was pretty talented at it, i do a car every winter just to keep my sanity, i cant sit in the house watching TV, i need a project. Anybody else had something done local? I would think that there are plenty of guys doing short track motors around here, hell its the same work as they would be doing on the LT-1!

[WildBillyT]

I didnt really feel like Johnjz was jumping down my throat, he is just echoing the pains of living, and running a business in NJ. I guess i am old, when i was in my early teens we did it all ourself, except for the machining, my buddy owned an auto parts store, we got all the parts cheap. Well that was 30 years ago, those days are gone, i really want to do this right, the LE-2 setup was 1800.00, the parts to go with it were another 1500.00, i am just running out of money right now, so i figured i would do the shortblock myself. Hell i am already into it for 3300, if the shortblock is going to cost over 2000, i could have just bought a Golen 383 Longblock, and did no work. I derive a certain amount of pleasure doing this stuff myself, i am 48 yrs old and have never had a car in the shop, i fixed them all, i used to do bodywork for a living, and i was pretty talented at it, i do a car every winter just to keep my sanity, i cant sit in the house watching TV, i need a project. Anybody else had something done local? I would think that there are plenty of guys doing short track motors around here, hell its the same work as they would be doing on the LT-1!

Let me preface this by saying I have never dealt with Chad Golen personally and that this is all second hand information.

But I have heard by word of mouth and seen tales on the web of how he will pass the buck very quickly if you have trouble with the engine that he builds for you, and how he sometimes fudges dyno numbers.

Take this for what it's worth and obviously do your own homework and draw your own conclusions.

[Pampered-Z]

these guys certainly seem to be jumping down your throat for what is probably a couple hundred dollars in error, IF you are assembling this yourself.

I would say your estimates are close, for machine work and soft parts. Maybe a couple hundred more depending on the shop you go to.


I wasn't trying to put him down, his prices were in the ball park of what I was charged for machine work 5 years ago. But there is allot of things that he didn't mention that he might need as well and you do need to factor into the budget. I'm just trying to make sure he understands what he was getting into as far as factoring in additional items.

I'll admit that I'm anal and overbuild! I started my 383 with plans to reuse as many stock parts as possible. By the end only the block and intake were reused and even those had machine work done to them. But everything else from the valve covers to the oil pan and every bolt were upgraded or replaced.

I'm not sure how many people checked into the LT1s, But the factory didn't use parts that can support allot more HP. And most of the LT1 parts are specialized and cost allot more then the GEN I motors. You can't just drop in a $70 double roller timing chain or buy a $50 rebuild gasket kit. It's a $250 timing chain and $200 worth of gaskets. If the engine has high miles on it then he might want to think about a new water pump, optispark and even lifters as well, so he might need to add at least $500 more to the budget!

We recently did a "simple" cam swap in a 97TA, well, by the time you add cam, HD timing chain, water pump, opti, springs, retainers, locks, seals, rockers, pushrods, guideplates, gaskets, fluids and ECM reprogramming your looking at close to $1700.00 in parts.

97WS6 already has most of the parts, but if he builds a 355 or 383 and plans to go 425-450+HP then he's most likely going to be at the limits of his fuel system. He will need bigger fuel injectors and probably a bigger fuel pump as well. So add at least another $500 to the budget. Some will tell you different, but would you risk all the time and money on burning up your motor because you went lean?

97WS6, if you build a 383, you can either hammer on the stock pan for clearance, or go after market. To my knowledge only Canton makes a bigger oil pan for the LT1, and again, it's not cheap. So if you want to upgrade to a better oil pump, you run the risk of sucking the pan dry, so you should think about this as well. Again, add another $400 to the budget for a pan/pump+ pickup.

And lets not forget that if you're running one of the big 600 lift cams that are so popular then gears and a torque converter or stronger then stock clutch
are needed as well. The 306, GM847 or LE2 cams really need them!

I'm NOT trying to put anyone down, or telling them not to mod their car. I'm just trying to share my experiences and make sure you think about everything since there are always things we forget to factor in.

John

[jwscab]

Pampered-Z, you have alot of good points. My view was just that the guy was asking about a short block. If he's already looking and ordering the head package, I'm sure he's been through these motors before, so for the details that always get you, I figured he had it covered (plus some of the stuff you talked about probably come with the heads). Its good that you pointed them out however, in case he wasn't thinking about that. Bottom line is that the guy had a simple question that mushroomed into alot of other things.

the LT1 does have it's share of weirdness, but its close to a later model cast iron 5.7, so machine work wise, its pretty much the same. The oil pan is the same as a late model 5.7 (except for the oil sensor hole). As for its toughness, look at how quick some of these stock bottom end guys are going.....not too say that upgrades are good....depends on what you want to spend....

oh, also, forgive me for forgetting my machine shop guys business name, apparently that means I know nothing.....

[97ws6]

Yea i here ya, JS, and Johnz, i appreciate your input, i dont want you to think i am saying local machinist are crooks. It cost a lot to own a business in New Jersey. I will ponder this some more, i dont have to rush it, my car is running right now. To bad its not a Gen 1 engine, those shortblocks are cheap.

[JSPERFORMANCE]

It costs alot to run a business ANYWHERE. LOL

[97ws6]

Right now i am pondering a crate shortblock, although your info on Chad is very informative, i already have Delphi 37lb injectors, and an upgraded fuel pump. Glad i started this thread, it has been very helpfull.

[FAST Z]

Bobby Bammann... 609 208 1442 better than a crate you won't be disappointed.... Cream Ridge NJ.. (By Great Adventure)... believe me you won't be sorry. He is cool as ice and will build you what your lookin for. $$ wise or HP wise.... he builds to suit.

[97ws6]

Hey thanks, thats 15 minutes from my house, just what i was looking for, a local guy, with a good rep, that will work with me, i kinda figured there had to be somebody out that way, New Egypt Speedway is 5 minutes from there, those guys must need machine work.

[WildBillyT]

Hey thanks, thats 15 minutes from my house, just what i was looking for, a local guy, with a good rep, that will work with me, i kinda figured there had to be somebody out that way, New Egypt Speedway is 5 minutes from there, those guys must need machine work.

Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. The circle track guys need to squeeze every last HP out of their engine within their rules, so the engine guys are typically very good.

[Tru2Chevy]

Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. The circle track guys need to squeeze every last HP out of their engine within their rules, so the engine guys are typically very good.

That's true, but I don't hear Bammann's name being tossed around much at all at New Egypt or Bridgeport. I don't think he builds motors for those guys too much (if at all).

I know he's got a good reputation in the world of drag racing though.

- Justin