Street Racing??

[JerzLT1]

Just out of curiosity why do all posts that involve street racing get deleted? you cant really even say its because sponsors dont want to be on sites that have that kind of content posted on them because Tech has a section devoted just to that and they have tons of sponsors. just curious as to why???

[misterjuice]

cuz we don't want that kind of jive talkin on the board.

[NJSPEEDER]

there are a few reasons really.

one problem for us is the liability issue. as much as i would like to say otherwise, i am not a rich man and i can't afford to get sued.
the way it works is similar to when someone who throws a party gets sued when someone drives home drunk. regardless of whether the person throwing the party approved of the drunk driving or not, the illegal act resulted from a situation in which they had oversight and failed to put a stop to it. therefore, legally, any actions that result come back to the person throwing the party.
the parellel on our site is that if we allow open discussion and planning of an illegal activity and it reults in any accident, injury, or death, we can be held liable. that would put a swift end to the club that everyone here has put so much effort into building up as well as ruining justin's and my lives if we were to get sued.

there is also the obvious issue of legality. it is illegal, plain and simple.
this relates to the future of the club in that we are working on being more invovled with the SEMA Action Network to work within the political arena and protect the hobby. we would be hard pressed to be taken seriously by anyone while trying to influence new laws if our membership is openly breaking existing laws.

sponsorship does play into it to some degree as well. you will notice that one of the things that goes along with the street racing and kill forums that other sites have is a war room mentality. on sites that stayed small or have such a broad appeal that have a ton of members it makes little difference. a small frum of a fe hundred members cna survive for under $100 a year in most cases, and a huge site with national appeal and hundred of thousands of members has so much activity that companies will flock to them jsut because of market appeal.
we don't have either luxary currently. the NJFBOA site is active enough that we can not use the little hobby servers, yet we are small enough that we can not seek sponsorship while putting out a war forum image.
basically, tech has access to a million+ potential customer visits a day for those companies, they can overlook the few thousnad trouble makers for a stake of that marketplace.

there really is no excuse for street racing in new jersey. there are 3 tracks operating 6 nights a week. with that many opportunities to test yourself and your car in a safe and controled enviroment, there is no real reason to be out on the streets putting the lives and property of others at risk.

[Mike]

because there are members of the board in law enforcement, so posting about street racing is just gonna get you caught.

[njfastestcamaro]

street racing so much better then track racing

[98tadriver]

street racing so much better then track racing

******** A RIGHT IT IS.

[NJSPEEDER]

i would rather be at the track. a tree and a win light eliminates all the crying about who did or didn't jump and arguments about who won a close race.

[wrong generation]

because there are members of the board in law enforcement, so posting about street racing is just gonna get you caught.

law enforcement is nothing to be afraid of they are just reg people that are slightly ( ok some are more then slightly)power happy and have a shiny badge to prove it

there really is no excuse for street racing in new jersey. there are 3 tracks operating 6 nights a week. with that many opportunities to test yourself and your car in a safe and controled enviroment, there is no real reason to be out on the streets putting the lives and property of others at risk.

i have to slightly disagree here. ill agree with the track being safer but i have a very valid excuse for not going to a track it is not worth it to drive over an hour pay $30 for a couple of races and then to drive over an hour to get home. it is so much more realistic to just drive to a local abandon road and race right there. the only thing you have a chance at hitting is a deer which would be just like slamming into the wall at the track.

[bad64chevelle]

i have to slightly disagree here. ill agree with the track being safer but i have a very valid excuse for not going to a track it is not worth it to drive over an hour pay $30 for a couple of races and then to drive over an hour to get home. it is so much more realistic to just drive to a local abandon road and race right there. the only thing you have a chance at hitting is a deer which would be just like slamming into the wall at the track.

Yeah, because everytime I have raced at the track the wall jumps out infront of me at 100+ MPH. Good thing I have catlike reflexes and can steer clear of those nasty walls. :rolleyes:

[qwikz28]

law enforcement is nothing to be afraid of they are just reg people that are slightly ( ok some are more then slightly)power happy and have a shiny badge to prove it
i hope you get held up one day by a guy with a gun... then we'll see how you feel about those said power happy people


i have to slightly disagree here. ill agree with the track being safer but i have a very valid excuse for not going to a track it is not worth it to drive over an hour pay $30 for a couple of races and then to drive over an hour to get home. it is so much more realistic to just drive to a local abandon road and race right there. the only thing you have a chance at hitting is a deer which would be just like slamming into the wall at the track.
coming from a person who spent this whole summer studying logic, you're argument sucks. how is your chances of hitting a deer the same as hitting a wall? your chances of losing control and going off the road is the same as hitting the wall, and even that is amplified because tracks are prepped and the street is not. the deer, pedestrians, debris, other cars, etc... are all other factors that make your argument sound even dumber.

[qwikz28]

Yeah, because everytime I have raced at the track the wall jumps out infront of me at 100+ MPH. Good thing I have catlike reflexes and can steer clear of those nasty walls. :rolleyes:

you did in my car :lol:

























dick ;)

[JerzLT1]

i understand the part where people say its not safe and all that but at the same timeare you going to stop people from saying that theyre running ORYs? thats illegal and bad for the enviroment but people suggest it all the time. removing air bags for weight reduction? illegal and unsafe if you do happen to hit a wall. removing bumper supports? again unsafe. do you see where im coming from? and as far as the legal end of it. theres cops on every website, and yes it would be very stupid for someone to set up a time and a place for a race on boards like cops arent on here

[NJSPEEDER]

ORY's and safety equipment removal are legal on collectors/classic registered vehicles and for off highway use.
there is no legal way to race on the street.

[NJSPEEDER]

i have to slightly disagree here. ill agree with the track being safer but i have a very valid excuse for not going to a track it is not worth it to drive over an hour pay $30 for a couple of races and then to drive over an hour to get home. it is so much more realistic to just drive to a local abandon road and race right there. the only thing you have a chance at hitting is a deer which would be just like slamming into the wall at the track.

on the street you are risking a lot more than the $30 it costs to get in at the track.
first off, track surfaces are built, prepped, leveled, and cleaed to be safe. there is not a road anywhere on the east coast that can claim that. so you are far less likely to have a situation created by the surrounding conditions that will cause you to wreck. it is also a very obvious truth that going off of a back road leaves a lot more dangerous things in your path that a flat concrete barrier. trees, curbs, poles, hydrants, all these things will have a much more adversse effect on your ability to control the car and stay safe in an out of control car than a concrete wall will.
also, when you race on the street you are risking your car and your license. if you do happen to wreck while out on teh streets and the investigation proves it was street racing, say goodbye to your insurance ever paying a dime on top of all the legal problems you will have.

[JerzLT1]

then how can you allow people to talk about smoking weed? why dont those posts get deleted? thats illegal in every way shape and form. or under age drinking?

[NJSPEEDER]

we do delete a lot of posts about illegal drug use and underage drinking. it is all a matter of when the posts/threads are seen by the mods or admins. it is an active forum, so not everything gets read and moderated the second it goes up.

comparing street racing to other topic areas does not support the position of those who wish to discuss street racing. the club forums and the rules that are in place to manage them are constantly evolving.

[Mike]

law enforcement is nothing to be afraid of they are just reg people that are slightly ( ok some are more then slightly)power happy and have a shiny badge to prove it



no one said to be scared of the cops, but if you talk about racing, and talk about spots, and anyone and their mother can be on hear reading it, your BEGGING to get caught. and once you do, you will make a post crying about the cops being ******* im sure.

[trashman01]

if u dont like how they get deleted and other stuff doesnt right away, get off the board, plain and simple. ill admit it i use to street race, then i found the track, which i personally think is alot better cuz its a big family there(where i go atleast) i met some ppl who gave me tips, tricks and lent me some tools so i could adjust the car to go faster. plus its ALOT safer and i wont get my license or car taken away or kill some innocent ppl. i see ricers race where me and my friends hang out(kinda like a club but not really, cops leave us alone cuz they kno we dont do any racing or burnouts) i watch a stupid POS honda miss a jeep cherokee by inches cuz he was trying to show how slow his car was

[unstable bob gable]

because there are members of the board in law enforcement, so posting about street racing is just gonna get you caught.

BAD BOYZ! BAD BOYZ! WHAT CHA GONNA DO? WHAT CHA GONNA DO WHEN THEY COME FOR YOU???

[JerzLT1]

i never said i street race and havent had any posts deleted because of it. and ive had my license suspended for speeding but have i ever said cops are dicks? no because ive been let off for more then one offense. i do respect cops but at the same time (just like most other people) if a car comes along that i want to race and the road is wide open im going to. i just dont see the reason for deleting posts. no one said the boards support street racing if posts arent deleted. honestly if people are stupid enough to say where they race or try to set one up they deserve to get caught.

[WayFast84]

I dont think the posts should be deleted or they should be allowed in the paying section

[NJSPEEDER]

regadless of whether we say we don't approve of street racing or not we can be held legally liable if races are planned using our forums. who does or doesn't approve of street racing has nothing to do with who can get sued for it.
our intention is not to change anyone's outlook or the ways in which they enjoy their car and the hobby. at the same time we have to look at things from the perspective of what is best for the club and hobby as a whole. getting my pants sued off woudl be a very bad thing for the club since i can barely afford to do this as it is, much less after having to hire a lawyer.

[NJSPEEDER]

I dont think the posts should be deleted, I think they should be allowed in the paying section, But whats with being able to say dick but not as s?

the liability doesn't change jsut because a discussion is in a different forum. besides, there are cops in the basement forum too, so it is jsut as easy for them to find out what is up and nail people for it.

[chevyt454]

Theres one tonight in Newark...........Sssshhhhhhhhhhh!!!

[BonzoHansen]

It's not just planning. The mere lack of response to it is tantamount to implicit approval. Go ask the Dean at Rider what he thinks about this concept. He just got hit with CRIMINAL CHARGES over the binge drinking death of that kid last March. And that is on top of the civil lawsuit by the family - which Rider will likely pay dearly.

Why? Basically, the University did not do enough to stop it. He wasn't there. He said he is against it. The University had rules against it (as does the state). But there he is in court. Bull? Sure. But Rider has the deep pockets to defend him. Last I looked, Tim & Justin do not. And that is the point you are missing.

Will it ever happen? Probably not. But I sure wouldn't want to be around if it were to happen. And I sure wouldn't want to trust the legal reasoning purposed by some guys on the internet.

Generally, all I see here is a lot of talk from people who have nothing personally on the line here. I see people who want what they want - and how it potentially impacts others matters not. Nice. Go to a site the allows it, or better yet ante up for your own forum if you want to do it. Until then, those are the rules and the reasons behind them.

[unstable bob gable]

It's not just planning. The mere lack of response to it is tantamount to implicit approval. Go ask the Dean at Rider what he thinks about this concept. He just got hit with CRIMINAL CHARGES over the binge drinking death of that kid last March. And that is on top of the civil lawsuit by the family - which Rider will likely pay dearly.

Why? Basically, the University did not do enough to stop it. He wasn't there. He said he is against it. The University had rules against it (as does the state). But there he is in court. Bull? Sure. But Rider has the deep pockets to defend him. Last I looked, Tim & Justin do not. And that is the point you are missing.

Will it ever happen? Probably not. But I sure wouldn't want to be around if it were to happen. And I sure wouldn't want to trust the legal reasoning purposed by some guys on the internet.

Generally, all I see here is a lot of talk from people who have nothing personally on the line here. I see people who want what they want - and how it potentially impacts others matters not. Nice. Go to a site the allows it, or better yet ante up for your own forum if you want to do it. Until then, those are the rules and the reasons behind them.

BRICKA! BRACKA!
FIRECRACKA...
Oh, never mind...

[BonzoHansen]

BRICKA! BRACKA!
FIRECRACKA...
Oh, never mind...

LOL :rofl:

[WayFast84]

It's not just planning. The mere lack of response to it is tantamount to implicit approval. Go ask the Dean at Rider what he thinks about this concept. He just got hit with CRIMINAL CHARGES over the binge drinking death of that kid last March. And that is on top of the civil lawsuit by the family - which Rider will likely pay dearly.

Why? Basically, the University did not do enough to stop it. He wasn't there. He said he is against it. The University had rules against it (as does the state). But there he is in court. Bull? Sure. But Rider has the deep pockets to defend him. Last I looked, Tim & Justin do not. And that is the point you are missing.

Will it ever happen? Probably not. But I sure wouldn't want to be around if it were to happen. And I sure wouldn't want to trust the legal reasoning purposed by some guys on the internet.

Generally, all I see here is a lot of talk from people who have nothing personally on the line here. I see people who want what they want - and how it potentially impacts others matters not. Nice. Go to a site the allows it, or better yet ante up for your own forum if you want to do it. Until then, those are the rules and the reasons behind them.

thats a real good post about the topic

[bad64chevelle]

you did in my car :lol:


dick ;)

Hey, its all good...what can I say the car was moving that night 111.8 MPH on a 13.41 run, ya can bet yer butt I was sideways most of that run. Why do you think that dude in the Mustang didnt want to line up with me again :lol:

[JerzLT1]

i do understand where your coming from but at the same time... has Tech been sued for it? which you mentioned is much larger then this site therefore many more people to be offended or effected by it. i do see your point about people setting up races and what not and i agree that it shouldnt be allowed. but almost every site i go on has a section for Kill stories. i dont see the problem with that. can you elaborate on that a little for me? (not being a smartass)

[Mike]

personally i think tim has been going above and beyond with actually stating reasons and logic (as much as timmay has) behind his decisions....what it boils down to is that Tim (njspeeder) and justin (tru2chevy) literally OWN this website. the only thing they have to tell you is......"we dont want street racing discussed, end of story" and they can pull it down.

while i understand that a lot of sites have sections for kill stories, those sites also have to deal with the bullpoop that goes on in them, many turn into arguments, fights, pissing matches, and worst of all BENCH RACING by a bunch of people that werent there or have never seen either car.

no one is getting all holier-than-thow and preaching to you NOT to street race, we are asking NOT to post about it. no one can tell you what you should go out and do, but they can tell you what you can post about in a privately owned site.

/rant, off to the nats.

[BonzoHansen]

i do understand where your coming from but at the same time... has Tech been sued for it? which you mentioned is much larger then this site therefore many more people to be offended or effected by it. i do see your point about people setting up races and what not and i agree that it shouldnt be allowed. but almost every site i go on has a section for Kill stories. i dont see the problem with that. can you elaborate on that a little for me? (not being a smartass)

I dunno, a lot of the site I frequent (like Team Camaro, NastyZ28, Pro-Touring, Lateral-G) do not allow s/r or kill stories.

Your question "has Tech been sued" is not the point. I point back to my reply: "Will it ever happen? Probably not. But I sure wouldn't want to be around if it were to happen. And I sure wouldn't want to trust the legal reasoning purposed by some guys on the internet."What is more to elaborate?

Again, are you going to ante up the thousands in legal costs if it were to happen? I serisouly doubt it.

[NJSPEEDER]

but almost every site i go on has a section for Kill stories. i dont see the problem with that. can you elaborate on that a little for me? (not being a smartass)

several possible reasons

1: they have deep enough ockets to defend themselves
2: they don't understand how they can be liable
3: they don't care how they can be liable

i have no answers for how other forums and clubs deal with it. i do talk to many other owners, admins, and mods, but this is a topic area that i have never discussed with them.

even though the likelyhood of a legal recourse is minimal, it is something we can't afford personally. it also does nothing to advance the club or the hobby, so there really isn't any redeeming value to allowing it either.

[Noodles]

i knew it couldnt have been the sponsors...

[98tadriver]

regadless of whether we say we don't approve of street racing or not we can be held legally liable if races are planned using our forums. who does or doesn't approve of street racing has nothing to do with who can get sued for it.
our intention is not to change anyone's outlook or the ways in which they enjoy their car and the hobby. at the same time we have to look at things from the perspective of what is best for the club and hobby as a whole. getting my pants sued off woudl be a very bad thing for the club since i can barely afford to do this as it is, much less after having to hire a lawyer.

Who said we're gonnna use njfboa to plan our illegal races? i dont. Whats the harm in sharing kill stories? If i want to call a person out, i will either tell em personally, get their phone number and call them or use AIM. Bahhhh just make a street racing and kill story section, and put a disclaimer and some rules there.

Its kinda hard not to street race people when the nearest drag strip is 1 hour away. and on top of that when people blow up or leak oil (which they do 90% of the time when i go), i only get 2 runs from 530pm until 1030pm. thats a waste of gas and drag radial for that 50 mile trip one way. As with anything, youre taking a risk when you race;
I cut down those obvious risks that the stupid ricer kids dont- I dont race where there's houses or intersections. its definately not busy with traffic, if any car at all, and my exhaust scares away deer and any other woodland creature within a 1 mile radius.

[NJSPEEDER]

you are missing the point ron, a disclaimer doesn't mean anything legally. we are still liable. point blank, no way around it.

who says you would use the forum to plan races? hmmm, talk about where to meet up, talk about what goes on in those spots, and brag about the resulting races. yeah, no lawyer or cop woudl ever figure something that obvious out. :roll:

also, how does you bragging about breaking the law do any good for the club, the hobby, or young enthusiasts trying to learn the right way to do things? for that matter what good does it do you considering we have already mentioned that there are police who are opposed to street racing that cruise the board?

there is no upside to allowing street racing and kill stories on our forum. there are enough other places on the web for you to talk about it, i invite you to check out those forums if you want to talk about illegal racing. i will not allow a club that so many people have put so much effort into to be taken down because some people don't want to do things the legal and safe way. it ranges from the negative image of the membership created all the way through possible legal actions against the club, justin, and myself.

btw, you missed a great opportunity to race for money legally and safely today at the east coast nats. great weather, lots of laughs, and a few hundred enthusiasts all out enjoying a beautiful summer day at the track.

[Squirrel]

just do what i do, ive been involved in a couple street races that took place in mexico set up via PM
easy...

[wrong generation]

Its kinda hard not to street race people when the nearest drag strip is 1 hour away. and on top of that when people blow up or leak oil (which they do 90% of the time when i go), i only get 2 runs from 530pm until 1030pm. thats a waste of gas and drag radial for that 50 mile trip one way. As with anything, youre taking a risk when you race;
I cut down those obvious risks that the stupid ricer kids dont- I dont race where there's houses or intersections. its definately not busy with traffic, if any car at all, and my exhaust scares away deer and any other woodland creature within a 1 mile radius.

exactly my point

[qwikz28]

the problem is that your point is not valid. if you lost control and hit a friend or family member of mine street racing because you are too lazy then i would only hope the judge would through the book at you. it may seem very unlikely to you, and you're right. it is. but there is a chance, and thats why it shouldnt happen.

[Squirrel]

the problem is that your point is not valid. if you lost control and hit a friend or family member of mine street racing because you are too lazy then i would only hope the judge would through the book at you. it may seem very unlikely to you, and you're right. it is. but there is a chance, and thats why it shouldnt happen.

::waiting for the "yeah, but that could happen at the track too."::

but i know i'd rather be racing a street car on an open highway instead of gettin freight trained by an 8 second bracket car on slicks/skinnies on the track

[BonzoHansen]

Again, what the hell is so hard to understand? If we allow the posting of kill videos and street racing realted threads, it can be seen as implicit approval and support, and therefore open the site owners up for liability issues. Again, I refer to the current case at Rider. That is how the law works.

If you don't think a 19 year old facing vehicular manslaughter charges wouldn’t say “I was encouraged to race by videos I saw online” in order to cut a deal with a prosecutor, then you are at best surprisingly naïve. Any pubic official would happily offer a lesser charge for one guy in exchange for multiple charges against more people in an attempt to publicly appear to be attacking aggressive driving. Welcome to the real world. Your ride will be very bumpy if you don’t wake up to certain realities.

To echo Jake, to say the track is too far away to use is a tremendously poor argument. It makes zero logical sense. That doesn’t make street racing ok. And more importantly it does not mitigate the liability issues here (that is the big complaint here, right, the club’s rule?). It means there are not enough tracks or you need to move closer to a track. If that is your best argument, then use all this energy to go work on solving one of those issues.

If you truly think we are wrong, then open your wallet and start your own forum. Stop being interweb mouths and go put your neck on the line. Yeah, I didn’t think so.

[Jersey_TA]

regadless of whether we say we don't approve of street racing or not we can be held legally liable if races are planned using our forums. who does or doesn't approve of street racing has nothing to do with who can get sued for it.
our intention is not to change anyone's outlook or the ways in which they enjoy their car and the hobby. at the same time we have to look at things from the perspective of what is best for the club and hobby as a whole. getting my pants sued off woudl be a very bad thing for the club since i can barely afford to do this as it is, much less after having to hire a lawyer.

So if we set up races at atco using this site and heaven forbid someone crashes during that race at the track they can just come on here and sue you too???

ugh not woth arguing since it won't make any difference. So does this mean all my TR posts in the future are going to be deleted?

[Pampered-Z]

Oh for god sakes why can't you all stop these stupid post about street racing! The rules Tim set for this site are clear. So if you don't like them why are you here?

People complain about others asked or posting dumb stuff yet the lounge is full of "why can't I post about street racing". BECAUSE IT'S NOT ALLOWED!

If you know of other sites that allow those type of post and you want to post then just go do it on those sites!

End of rant!

[BonzoHansen]

So if we set up races at atco using this site and heaven forbid someone crashes during that race at the track they can just come on here and sue you too??? Not really the same situation. Racing at a track is legal. You also have to sign a court-proven waiver at the track, I believe you have to be 18, and you have to use required safety gear, pass tech, etc. None of that applies here. It is just like skiing. There is an inherent level of risk that you accept when you pay for your lift ticket. That has been held up in court many times. To me, that is a much cleaner analogy.

I know this was more of a rhetorical statement, but I am sure other members may ask this too.

[WildBillyT]

So if we set up races at atco using this site and heaven forbid someone crashes during that race at the track they can just come on here and sue you too???

ugh not woth arguing since it won't make any difference. So does this mean all my TR posts in the future are going to be deleted?

Of course not.

But if someone does something illegal (be it street racing or crack dealing) and they talk about it on here we will be dragged into it.

Not to mention that cops lurk here looking for posts about street racing.

[PolarBear]

If you truly think we are wrong, then open your wallet and start your own forum. Stop being interweb mouths and go put your neck on the line. Yeah, I didn’t think so.

:werd:

[Jersey_TA]

Of course not.

But if someone does something illegal (be it street racing or crack dealing) and they talk about it on here we will be dragged into it.

Not to mention that cops lurk here looking for posts about street racing.

not like the NJ cops can do anything about my IL racing and vids I posted...were deleted. I didn't know this post even existed since I haven't been on much since being home. I wouldn't have posted them if I knew.

[BonzoHansen]

That's cool, it is kind of a new thing. That is why I sent you the PM.

[Jersey_TA]

That's cool, it is kind of a new thing. That is why I sent you the PM.

Thanks for the heads up.

[WildBillyT]

not like the NJ cops can do anything about my IL racing and vids I posted...were deleted. I didn't know this post even existed since I haven't been on much since being home. I wouldn't have posted them if I knew.

Not exactly what I meant...

If you line up a race on Rt 37 for thursday night and a lurking PD sees it he can/will check you out. If it sounds far-fetched, it isn't- other boards have "keep places/times secret" disclaimers on them for that reason. Smallblockposse.com's banner is a prime example.

Does that make more sense? It's been a long day...

[NJSPEEDER]

but i know i'd rather be racing a street car on an open highway instead of gettin freight trained by an 8 second bracket car on slicks/skinnies on the track

then go the track and hang in the street lanes or jsut set up races with your friends while you are there. al the track encourage people to grudge race each other and 99% of the people around you in the lanes will be more than happy to help you move around so you can run a friend or someone who called you out.

[JerzLT1]

i believe i simply inquired as to why everything was deleted and why it wasnt allowed. everyone else turned it into a ***** session. and honestly Tim is one of the only people who responded in a mature way. so if the rest of you have nothing more to say then "if you dont like it find another board to post one" then just dont say anything at all. i never once said i was gonna stop posting did i? i believe i just asked for a reason as to why. couldnt putting something into the "Terms and Conditions" portion that everyone has to agree to solve some legal issues? (again if you dont have a real answer please just keep your mouth shut)

[NJSPEEDER]

not really. the terms of use is just that, you are agreeing to use the forums with in specific guidelines. where that ends is similar to what happened at Rider. there were rules against underage and pledge drinking, but no one was enforcing them.
basically, even if someone agrees to act a certain way, it is the fault of leadership if they don't.

[JerzLT1]

if you get a chance to tim IM me on Smartass15864. ive been tryin to get ahold of you about something else too but you never seem to be online lol. also maybe you could think of a way to allow kill stories without having the liability issue because theyre enjoyable to read and i know i would spend more time on the site then i have.

[79T/A]

I have to say, this is quite an interesting topic for both sides. There have been some great arguments given for and against street racing. I'm the first to admit that I don't always obey the posted speed limit, but the days of street racing are far behind me. Maybe it's due to the fact that I'm a father now and the prospect of losing everything for a few seconds of adrenaline (Any money I have being spent to defend myself legally, not to mention the possibility of my own life). Maybe it's the fear of the unknown factors such as wildlife or small children running out onto the highway. Maybe it's the idea of having to live with severe consequences emotionally if I caused the death of another in a street race. Maybe I'm just friggin' old. Whatever it is, it scares the heel out of me.

I'll also admit that the few kill stories I have read do bring a chuckle and are entertaining, but they are also incriminating. It's a bit far fetched, but picture this: In one of these kill stories, a street racer admits to everyone reading that he or she outran another vehicle on a public highway in this fashion: "I was going home the other night and I blew away this red Honda!" What the poster doesn't realize is that the Honda driver ran a red light trying to catch up to him or her and slammed into a pedestrian. Witnesses say the driver was racing the poster's car. Maybe even a license plate is taken down. A friendly neighborhood police officer reads this post, puts two and two together and it becomes evidence. Now, BOTH racers are involved in vehicular homicide. Yeah, it's far fetched, but entirely possible. There ARE members of law enforcement posting up in here.

also maybe you could think of a way to allow kill stories without having the liability issue because theyre enjoyable to read and i know i would spend more time on the site then i have.

86Formula, you've stated that you want a mature answer to your question, and you've gotten it several times from Tim. What he said, plain and simple, is that in the terms and conditions, kill stories and other such street racing issues are not allowed. And then you still persist in saying that he should think of a way to present them? That's exactly the same as walking into someone's house and telling them what colors to paint the walls and what kind of carpets it should have. It really kind of does come down to enjoying this site for all the things it does have, and go elsewhere for what it doesn't.

[jims69camaro]

Generally, all I see here is a lot of talk from people who have nothing personally on the line here. I see people who want what they want - and how it potentially impacts others matters not. Nice. Go to a site the allows it, or better yet ante up for your own forum if you want to do it. Until then, those are the rules and the reasons behind them.

hit the nail smack-dab on the head.

[JerzLT1]

86Formula, you've stated that you want a mature answer to your question, and you've gotten it several times from Tim. What he said, plain and simple, is that in the terms and conditions, kill stories and other such street racing issues are not allowed. And then you still persist in saying that he should think of a way to present them? That's exactly the same as walking into someone's house and telling them what colors to paint the walls and what kind of carpets it should have. It really kind of does come down to enjoying this site for all the things it does have, and go elsewhere for what it doesn't.

i believe i asked if he could think of a way to allow people to post kill stories. im not telling him what to do. but am i not allowed to make a suggestion as to something i would like to see on the forums? or am i not entitled to my opinion anymore... i didnt demand anything nor did i say do it or im gonna leave. just a simple suggestion.

[WildBillyT]

86,

Unless a request is completely off the wall, we'll explore it to see if it's something we want to do or not. Contrary to what some members may lead you to believe we don't just turn up our noses like a bunch of kiddies and give a straight up "NO". We recognize that a community is nothing without its members, and it follows that we want people to be happy here. So in just about every case we will explore a suggestion.

With that in mind, if we come back and say no, after an initial explanation we should NOT have to parrot things back time and time again. If the answer is no, it's no. End of story until we say otherwise. The same goes for particular issues we do not want discussed on the forum. If it's not allowed then don't post it. If you have been reminded not to post something and you continually step on our nuts for whatever reason, expect a vacation from the forums for a little while.

I hope this makes things a bit more clear. Thanks for being mature in this discussion.