So this could be our savior to save us from George Bush?

[Frosty]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_B0uHybfmmY

Holy Christ :eek:

She f'in BOMBED that debate hardcore.

EVERY single topic was an attack on Bush. Great you twit, we all know W is a dingbat, move on. Hating Bush, being rich, being famous and have the husband she has shouldn't get her a single vote. Unfortunately those things will. :rolleyes: Her platform so far has been off the wall promises and an attack on W. Way to go, keep whining about how bad this Administration is yet you offer no ******* plans on how to make things better.

I love how she was asked about the documents between her and Billy Boy(again from last night's debate). I've never seen someone skate around a question so well, kudos to her. :lol:

[Teds89IROC]

I didn't watch the debate but I heard a few of her points :roll:

[johnjzjz]

we all know how rudy took control of 911 --he is left of center and right on the other stuff -- truth be told he is the only one running who took a job ( ruining NYC after the likes of Koch, and beam got through putting it in the dumper and every city worker was going on strike ( do you remember ) i do i grew up in Manhattan - not a job for the weak hearted -- he can do the job but people forget too easy what happened when they dont live in the NYC metro area -- my take for what its worth -- jz

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

She is so wishy washy and fake. She's on the fence about everything..and many feel the same way...

[Knipps]

She is so wishy washy and fake. She's on the fence about everything..and many feel the same way...

isn't that all politics :shrug:

[firehawk1120]

she will destroy this country one state at a time starting with NY. Those stupid bastirds voted her in and now they are stuck with her. I hope to god ANYONE wins but her.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

I hope to god she doesn't win, or Obama. Even the other Dems don't seem as crazy as those two.

[JL8Jeff]

Seems to be a really poor selection of candidates from both sides once again. This country is in big trouble and there doesn't seem to be any natural born leaders anymore. Rudy might be the best hope but being mayor of NY probably has him with some enemies that won't emerge until the final election. Hilary and Obama are so weak and like to blame everyone for everything else. Politics is not about blaming someone else, it's about what you're going to do and prove you have the background to do it. But overall, this year's election ads seem to be a lot more low key and less negative than the last few years and that's a good start.

[BonzoHansen]

There is only 1 man for the job.....
http://www.destructoid.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/steven-animation.jpg

http://stewart-colbert2008.org/images/240x250.gif

[Frosty]

Rudy has my vote if he gets the nod from the GOP

[maroman88]

meee tooooo

[Blacdout96]

There is only 1 man for the job.....
http://www.destructoid.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/steven-animation.jpg

http://stewart-colbert2008.org/images/240x250.gif

Yes please, even as comedians, they are better at news then CNN. I hate this wishy washy ********, its really pissing me off. Hilary is clearly fake and a liar, and trying to win everyone over, but like they always say, you cant please everyone. but shes like pinochio, when she lies ,her *** gets bigger. she really need to wake up and realize what the hell shes saying, but voting anymore is nto voting for your next president that actually did some of the stuff he said he was gonna do, like JFK or Ike, now we vote for the best liar that fools the stupid people. I vote, but man this kind of **** makes me realize why alot of peopel who arent lazy dont, cause nobodies worthy of being voted for.

And as for Rudy, sorry, he needs to get his *** and all other republicans, out of this bible ******** if god didnt want it it shall nto be done, like gay marriage or stem cell research, its the 21st century, and they're about 20 of them behind, grow up and face technology and the way of life has progressed.

[Batman]

She is so wishy washy and fake. She's on the fence about everything..and many feel the same way...


HELLO... she is a Democrat! That is what they do.

Hillary = the death of America

[mtnhopper1]

I'd like all the Rudy supporters to make a list of things he did for NY.

As far as I can see, he (like some other pols we love to hate), made his name by taking credit for things he didn't do.

-Rudy didn't "save" NY after 9-11, he let his clusterf--k administration send every dope with a shovel into a toxic waste site.

-Rudy didn't "clean up the streets" in NY by getting rid of crime. The crime in NY dropped proportionately with big cities in the rest of the country through the late 90s. He did get rid of the window washers and hookers by the tunnel, but as NJ residents, that shouldn't make you happy becasue most of them went to JC, Newark, and Trenton. He didn't give them jobs or improve their condition, he just moved them somewhere else. He DID put more cops on the street... by cutting benefits to the ones that are out there. Nice. Good job.

So, make me a list. I'm open-minded, but I just don't see it. He seems like another narrow-minded, right-wing, talking head who will say whatever the loudest special interest wants him to say.

I mean, he backed the Red Sox just because he was in Boston! Trivial, I admit, but it kinda gives you a glimpse into his character.

[WildBillyT]

It's a circus. Nobody on the list stands out to me as somebody who can lead us out of the slump we are in. I'm betting that somewhere there are people who can but they aren't running since they don't have the money or popularity or want to deal with all of the BS surrounding the election.

[shane27]

HELLO... she is a Democrat! That is what they do.

Hillary = the death of America and the death of healthcare as we know it

btw i think its comical people think we need to be "saved" from Bush. I thought more people were pro-national security...guess not. :cry:

[mtnhopper1]

It's a circus. Nobody on the list stands out to me as somebody who can lead us out of the slump we are in. I'm betting that somewhere there are people who can but they aren't running since they don't have the money or popularity or want to deal with all of the BS surrounding the election.

Agreed. It's the whole "silent majority" phenom. The only people with a voice are the people who are so crazy extreme that they will throw themselves to the wolves for their cause, or those who are too thick-skulled to see merit in the opinions of others. The president has an obligation to represent ALL Americans, not just those who voted for him. This country was founded on equal representation for all. The way that pols pander to special interest groups is disgraceful and embarassing.

I want someone who is willing to listen to opinions they don't necessarily agree with, and who will take those opinions into consideration when making a decision. Most of us are reasonable, thinking people, even if we disagree. There are reasons we each hold our opinions. I want teh person who will consider all of those reasons and come up with the BEST decision for the country, even if it isn't the one I wanted. However, I want them to be thoughtful and intelligent enough to be able to give me a reason why the decision they chose was the best.

It drives me crazy when people accuse pols of being "flip-floppers," or "wishy-washy." Pols are there for us. Ideally, they do what we tell them to do. If public opinion changes or is indecisive, they should change, or forgo a decision until the right answer is clear. I HATE pols who open their mouths and spew extremist, stump-speech garbage that sounds like a NRA or Greepeace (just to be fair) flier, then stubbornly stand by their garbage even when the entire world disagrees, simply to save face. Lobbyists should be stubborn in their opinions against all rational opposition, the president of a country should not.

:soapbox: :horse: :hammer: :banghead: :knock: :willy:

[mtnhopper1]

and the death of healthcare as we know it


Would that be such a bad thing? The best plan would be to revamp the entire insurance industry.

[1_Hot_SOM_WS6]

I like how she says that giving ILLEGAL immigrants a D/L isn't such a bad idea....IS SHE F'En CRAZY!!!! They are in this country ILLEGALLY but we are going to say....ok great now that you are here lets get you a D/L!!! Get their @$sess out of the country!!! Then she trys to argue that she didnt just say that it was ok for them to have D/Ls. Ugh.....what a mess....even at the closing she cant give a straight answer....I know its politics...:rolleyes: If she gets in office...we are doomed!! :-x

[SteveR]

I'd like all the Rudy supporters to make a list of things he did for NY.

As far as I can see, he (like some other pols we love to hate), made his name by taking credit for things he didn't do.

-Rudy didn't "save" NY after 9-11, he let his clusterf--k administration send every dope with a shovel into a toxic waste site.

-Rudy didn't "clean up the streets" in NY by getting rid of crime. The crime in NY dropped proportionately with big cities in the rest of the country through the late 90s. He did get rid of the window washers and hookers by the tunnel, but as NJ residents, that shouldn't make you happy becasue most of them went to JC, Newark, and Trenton. He didn't give them jobs or improve their condition, he just moved them somewhere else. He DID put more cops on the street... by cutting benefits to the ones that are out there. Nice. Good job.

So, make me a list. I'm open-minded, but I just don't see it. He seems like another narrow-minded, right-wing, talking head who will say whatever the loudest special interest wants him to say.

I mean, he backed the Red Sox just because he was in Boston! Trivial, I admit, but it kinda gives you a glimpse into his character.

I grew up in NY when that scum bag was mayor. Do you want to know how he "cleaned up the streets"? Simple, HE MURDERED THE HOMELESS! It's true. The cops would go around to all of the abandoned houses and buildings in the city in the middle of the night and knock the buildings down with all of the innocent people in it. And to make sure noone got out alive, they'd place one of the giant steel plates that they put down on the road to cover construction holes over the doors on the first floor with cranes. Saw it myself. If that murderous piece of crap gets elected, Im moving the hell away from north america.

[Knipps]

I grew up in NY when that scum bag was mayor. Do you want to know how he "cleaned up the streets"? Simple, HE MURDERED THE HOMELESS! It's true. The cops would go around to all of the abandoned houses and buildings in the city in the middle of the night and knock the buildings down with all of the innocent people in it. And to make sure noone got out alive, they'd place one of the giant steel plates that they put down on the road to cover construction holes over the doors on the first floor with cranes. Saw it myself. If that murderous piece of crap gets elected, Im moving the hell away from north america.

i'm not saying you're wrong but
1. cops don't knock down houses
2. wouldn't that be kind of noisy?

[SteveR]

i'm not saying you're wrong but
1. cops don't knock down houses
2. wouldn't that be kind of noisy?

Sure did. Usually happened around 3-4am. I lost a few friends to Guliani's 'clean streets program'. A lot of it took place in the lower east side. The place I knew pretty well was C-Squat on Avenue A. It was occupied mainly by runaways and kids. If you watch the movie "The Saint of Fort Washington", they talk about the mass grave that all of the homeless are taken to and dumped there like Nazi's used to have mass graves. It's sickening.

[Predator86]

There is only 1 man for the job.....
http://www.destructoid.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/steven-animation.jpg

http://stewart-colbert2008.org/images/240x250.gif

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

All joking aside i agree

[SteveR]

Oh, and they used to hand out chemicals, such as Lindane, that is supposed to be a lice repellent, to the homeless, except they'd hand out the agricultural version, and in amounts that were 10x the recommended amount for the FDA medically approved version. It is a health risk to be exposed to large amounts of the agricultural version and can cause seizures, cancer, and death. Knowing that it causes cancer and is toxic, they'd hand out mass quantities to the homeless promising that it would rid them of lice. It did, and killed many in the process, much like how the settlers would hand out blankets to the Native Americans that were laced with small pox.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Wow. I've never heard any of that stuff you're saying Steve. I knew about how he went from the biggest Yankee fan ever to the Red Sox, but this is a tad more important.

[enRo]

I really dont know who i would be voting for come election time. Although, I would NOT want a president with a name relatively close to Osama. :lol:

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Scandal from Clinton, Inc.

Here is the article:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071030/ap_po/clinton_video


Here is the video that is mentioned in the above article:


http://youtube.com/watch?v=xq8aopATYyw

[WildBillyT]

I really dont know who i would be voting for come election time. Although, I would NOT want a president with a name relatively close to Osama. :lol:

Ha. Sounds like me- I'm not voting for anyone southern. :rofl:

[shane27]

Would that be such a bad thing? The best plan would be to revamp the entire insurance industry. its not bad at all in this country, its just expensive because of all the lawsuits against pharmaceutical companies that make the prices get jacked way up.

[mtnhopper1]

its not bad at all in this country, its just expensive because of all the lawsuits against pharmaceutical companies that make the prices get jacked way up.

True true. Blame juries who grant $20 mil awards to sympathetic victims. Blame the media for not telling potential plaintiffs looking to hit paydirt that most of those ridiculous awards get reduced to a fraction on appeal. Blame litigous patients who sue evertime the get sick. All these things are problems with the system. My biggest beef, though, is with the insurance companies that make it their business practice to spend every dime that YOU PAY THEM in litigation costs to disclaim coverage of the very things that they are paid to cover.

The bottom line is this: People pay for insurance to protect their own assets. Insurance companies, though, are in the banking business. INSURANCE COMPANIES DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE INJURED! You need them and they know it. You will pay for coverage and they know it.

Basically, insurance is like the lottery. You buy a ticket every time you send in your premium. If you get "lucky," you'll be injured and will get back more than you paid. If you are not, at least you had the peace of mind of knowing you were covered. The what burns my balls is that the deck is stacked. In order to get them to pay out, you need to fight them for it. Litigation costs money. They have money. You do not (you sent it to them to use against you).

I'm just getting started. I won't bore you with more, but I'm sure you get the idea.

[SteveR]

True true. Blame juries who grant $20 mil awards to sympathetic victims. Blame the media for not telling potential plaintiffs looking to hit paydirt that most of those ridiculous awards get reduced to a fraction on appeal. Blame litigous patients who sue evertime the get sick. All these things are problems with the system. My biggest beef, though, is with the insurance companies that make it their business practice to spend every dime that YOU PAY THEM in litigation costs to disclaim coverage of the very things that they are paid to cover.

The bottom line is this: People pay for insurance to protect their own assets. Insurance companies, though, are in the banking business. INSURANCE COMPANIES DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE INJURED! You need them and they know it. You will pay for coverage and they know it.

Basically, insurance is like the lottery. You buy a ticket every time you send in your premium. If you get "lucky," you'll be injured and will get back more than you paid. If you are not, at least you had the peace of mind of knowing you were covered. The what burns my balls is that the deck is stacked. In order to get them to pay out, you need to fight them for it. Litigation costs money. They have money. You do not (you sent it to them to use against you).

I'm just getting started. I won't bore you with more, but I'm sure you get the idea.

and insurance companies wont pay doctors, hospitals, and private practices the cost for procedures. My ex ran one of the departments at St. Barnabas and she said the insurance companies would pay maybe 20-30% of the cost of ALL claims. So if you got in a car accident and needed $10,000 in medical treatment, the insurance company would only pay the hospital $2000-$3000. They know the hospital doesnt have the time or legal resources to sue them for thousands of claims per week, so they keep doing it. Then, in turn, the hospital doesnt want to go out of business, so they raise the cost on all procedures 70% to cover their losses, which in turn screws the patients. And since the insurance companies are large political lobbiests, they are protected . Its not just medical insurance either. A friend of mine bought a house three years ago. About eight months after he moved in, the house burnt down. It was because the smoke alarms were installed improperly by the company that built the house for him, but thats a whole other rant. Anyway, he filed it with his homeowners insurance, and they dropped him and told him they werent paying a dime. Luckily he had money and a great lawyer, but it took two years and $60,000 in legal fees to get his insurance money. Meanwhile, he had to rent a house, buy a new car, and replace his belongings out of pocket. The insurance companies know that you are in a bad situation when you submit a claim, so they know they can take advantage of you. Its a huge scam.

[qwikz28]

if she wins, all our presidents from the span of 1992-2012+ will be from the bush and clinton family

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

And there will have been a bush or a clinton on the ballot from 1980 on

[enRo]

if she wins, all our presidents from the span of 1992-2012+ will be from the bush and clinton family

Umm... George Bush Sr was president from 88-92 as well you noob lol

[qwikz28]

Umm... George Bush Sr was president from 88-92 as well you noob lol

really? we elected that retard for two terms?


waaaiiiittt.... we elected the other retarded bush for two terms as well. (but only because of lack of a better alternative)

[Blacdout96]

really? we elected that retard for two terms?


waaaiiiittt.... we elected the other retarded bush for two terms as well. (but only because of lack of a better alternative)

No, Bush was Vice president to Ronald Ragen i believe, and he ran the first time in 88, and won, and then ran again for the next election, but lost to billy. So from 1988-2008 have been ran buy clintons and bushs.

[JohnG]

It's a circus. Nobody on the list stands out to me as somebody who can lead us out of the slump we are in. I'm betting that somewhere there are people who can but they aren't running since they don't have the money or popularity or want to deal with all of the BS surrounding the election.

It is for those very reasons that Mark Warner (former Governor of Virginia) chose not to run. What he did in VA was unheard of. He would've been the best person for the job...

As for Hillary, her campaign is a smoke-screen: everyone ought to know that if she got elected, it would be Bill that would be running the country (again).

and IMHO, that would be a great thing. 8 years of peace & prosperity.

I'd be thrilled to see that again...

:nod:

[qwikz28]

No, Bush was Vice president to Ronald Ragen i believe, and he ran the first time in 88, and won, and then ran again for the next election, but lost to billy. So from 1988-2008 have been ran buy clintons and bushs.

that would make sense because i know clinton went into office in 92. and speaking of reagan, he wasn't an awful president. he was victim of circumstance in my opinion with the whole economy crisis

[JohnG]

btw i think its comical people think we need to be "saved" from Bush. I thought more people were pro-national security...guess not. :cry:

"Those who would sacrifice their Freedom for Security, deserve neither."

-- Benjamin Franklin

[JohnG]

If she gets in office...we are doomed!! :-x

I have a feeling Gore is going to declare his candidacy any day now...

Once that happens, the nomination is his :-?

[Tru2Chevy]

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin

Fixed.....

- Justin

[H82GOSLW]

It is for those very reasons that Mark Warner (former Governor of Virginia) chose not to run. What he did in VA was unheard of. He would've been the best person for the job...

As for Hillary, her campaign is a smoke-screen: everyone ought to know that if she got elected, it would be Bill that would be running the country (again).

and IMHO, that would be a great thing. 8 years of peace & prosperity.

I'd be thrilled to see that again...

:nod:

Ask any economist worth his/her salt and they will tell you the only reason Billy Clinton was able to enjoy 8 years of peace and prosperity in the economy, and hence have the majority of people happy, was because of the economic policies set forth by President Reagan. Clinton was just a better speaker than Bush is. They're both crooks.

[H82GOSLW]

I grew up in NY when that scum bag was mayor. Do you want to know how he "cleaned up the streets"? Simple, HE MURDERED THE HOMELESS! It's true. The cops would go around to all of the abandoned houses and buildings in the city in the middle of the night and knock the buildings down with all of the innocent people in it. And to make sure noone got out alive, they'd place one of the giant steel plates that they put down on the road to cover construction holes over the doors on the first floor with cranes. Saw it myself. If that murderous piece of crap gets elected, Im moving the hell away from north america.

Step away from the crack and nobody will get hurt. Don't you think that if he was murdering homeless people, and ordered cops to do it, that just ONE of those cops would have come forth by now and said something? When one runs for president, those who have dedicated their lives to digging up dirt will do whatever it takes to find skeletons in the closet. I'm gonna guess this would be a pretty big skeleton, if it were true. By the way, don't make promises like "moving away from North America" unless you're really going to follow through. I"m still waiting for Alec Baldwin to move out of the country.

[qwikz28]

john mccain!!!

[Tru2Chevy]

john mccain!!!

:werd:

- Justin

[Dark_Knight7096]

I would vote for colbert and stewart in a heartbeat, they are being written on my ballot!!!!

[JohnG]

Ask any economist worth his/her salt and they will tell you the only reason Billy Clinton was able to enjoy 8 years of peace and prosperity in the economy, and hence have the majority of people happy, was because of the economic policies set forth by President Reagan. Clinton was just a better speaker than Bush is. They're both crooks.

Reagan/Bush I = Budget Deficit

Clinton = Budget Surplus

Bush II = RECORD Budget Deficit

[BonzoHansen]

Reagan/Bush I = Budget Deficit

Clinton = Budget Surplus

Bush II = RECORD Budget Deficit

Clinton had some luck on his side. Bushie has not been the fiscal conservative at all (he spends like a drunk democrat), but "the federal deficit narrowed in fiscal 2007, the third straight annual reduction, as the continued economic recovery helped the growth of tax receipts outpace the growth of government spending" (WSJ 10/12).

[johnjzjz]

most just spend 10 seconds on the issues -- and the take from the bias drive by media is what they conclude is the truth -- shame of it is the decision you make now will impact your kids if you have any -- reason Reagan was elected what he did took 6 / 8 years to un do and we were dead into Clinton - but the deal is different today - than we had not been attacked and a war was not on - not knowing anything is the reason you think bush cant handle the country's money - but who else that we have running - either side who had the task of 911 besides bush and Rudy hello -- who can do the job not talk about what they want you to believe someone didn't DO - and they never say what they in turn would have done different - just point the finger - look at the young guys who are defending our freedoms over seas - do they think it was an inside job building #7 - or its we want their oil thats why -- and yep NO WMDs - BUT who was in charge for the previous 8 years and could not find white water papers that ended up on a desk in the hall way of the white house -- you expect their appointments to be spot on in nation intelligence - they were making it look like they knew what they were doing YA THINK -- it never happens your boss screws up and you get blamed yea right -- so blame someone else in charge - as an independent i pick who i think can do the job with the country's best interest at heart and you should do the same -- jz

[Frosty]

Reagan/Bush I = Budget Deficit

Clinton = Budget Surplus

Bush II = RECORD Budget Deficit

Yes, BUDGET. At least you got it right. Half the wackos out there thinks Clinton got us out of our national debt. No he didn't, not even close.

Yes, our spending right now is out of control. What would Clinton have done during any of the wars the Bush's faced?

BTW, widespread corporate fraud was normal under Clinton's watch. How many companies were caught cooking the books while under his terms?

[BigAls87Z28]

Yes, BUDGET. At least you got it right. Half the wackos out there thinks Clinton got us out of our national debt. No he didn't, not even close.

Yes, our spending right now is out of control. What would Clinton have done during any of the wars the Bush's faced?

BTW, widespread corporate fraud was normal under Clinton's watch. How many companies were caught cooking the books while under his terms?


How many of Bush or Cheney's CEO buddies arent making out like crooks now?
Widespread? I dont think so. There was MASSIVE spread of fraud durring the Regan admin as well, remember the S&L scandal?
How about Iran/Contra? Ring a bell?

Screw both sides, no one is doing anything to get the job done. Bush is a total clown, how you people voted him back into office is beyond me.

Here is the situation:
Our economy, despite what you read, has gone to ****. Dollar is sinking, housing market is still falling, and unemployment increasing. The ONLY thing we have going for us, is since our dollar is worth less then the Canadian dollar, that we are getting more and more tourists to vist, spending thier money. The goverment has YET to do anything about the housing market, and only recently have they discoverd that there might be something going on, and that they will try to offer some sort of help.
We are in TWO front war, one we have lost, and one we are losing.
Not only has the Taliban regained control of most of Afganastan, ITS INCREASED TO PRE 9/11 SIZE!!
In Iraq, we are fighting a war, and getting killed and not keeping peace between warring factions of the Muslim religion.
We are doing very little to stop Turkey from marching across Iraq's boarder to wipe out the Kurds.
We continue to lose jobs over seas, and with more FTA's, it will only happen more.

And worse part, we are soooo worried about the other side of the isle, THAT NO ONE IS DOING JACK TO GET THE JOB DONE!
Everything is back and forth bickering about how this person smoke a joint, or how this Hillary is female, Obama is black. Its Voting season, and everyone puts the worlds worries on hold so that they can get a seat into the biggest money pit in the world.
We are so far off track, that this country's governing body is worthless.
And going foward, we want to launch an attack into Iran? Are you nuts?
Whatever side of the isle you are on, its worthless.
Im sick and tired of the Religious Right, and Im sick of the Tree Hugging Liberals.
The farther to each side you go, the deeper the ***** gets. Im tired of the bickering back and forth.
Even if we got a powerful President in there, we still have a house that is just there grabbing money, that they cant decide to do jack.

[johnjzjz]

AL i dont know weir you get your info - but the boots on the ground in Afghan and Iraq dont see it your way about having lost it -- i am only going buy Vet fathers of kids who are their -- if you believe that than -- the cops in NYC i guess are covering up the killing of the homeless if you believe what some one wrote -- WOW the leftest media has lots of the people who responded snowed -- actually its just what they want -- jz

[Frosty]

EDIT: I had a longer respond typed out but what's the point..

[SteveR]

Step away from the crack and nobody will get hurt. Don't you think that if he was murdering homeless people, and ordered cops to do it, that just ONE of those cops would have come forth by now and said something? When one runs for president, those who have dedicated their lives to digging up dirt will do whatever it takes to find skeletons in the closet. I'm gonna guess this would be a pretty big skeleton, if it were true. By the way, don't make promises like "moving away from North America" unless you're really going to follow through. I"m still waiting for Alec Baldwin to move out of the country.

Crack? Who said anything about crack? What, do you not think that crooked things go down in this country? How about Bush's cover up of the oil spill in WV that screwed hundreds out of everything they own? Did you hear about that? Or about the fact that contract mercinaries in Iraq dont have to follow any law and can kill whomever they want? Like how that one got drunk and shot and killed the Iraqi presidents bodyguard? Or how Haliburton was given the largest civil works contract in human history illegally? Or the suspension of human rights regarding POWs thus committing war crimes in direct violation of the Geneva Convention, as order by the White House? Or how about political threats against the media for reporting opposition to the administrations policies? Cover ups and illegal operations dont exist? Keep dreaming, they're counting on it.

[Frosty]

Crack? Who said anything about crack? What, do you not think that crooked things go down in this country? How about Bush's cover up of the oil spill in WV that screwed hundreds out of everything they own? Did you hear about that? Or about the fact that contract mercinaries in Iraq dont have to follow any law and can kill whomever they want? Like how that one got drunk and shot and killed the Iraqi presidents bodyguard? Or how Haliburton was given the largest civil works contract in human history illegally? Or the suspension of human rights regarding POWs thus committing war crimes in direct violation of the Geneva Convention, as order by the White House? Or how about political threats against the media for reporting opposition to the administrations policies? Cover ups and illegal operations dont exist? Keep dreaming, they're counting on it.

All of which were reported in the news a million times so where's the cover up? :rofl::rofl:

[SteveR]

Crack? Who said anything about crack? What, do you not think that crooked things go down in this country? How about Bush's cover up of the oil spill in WV that screwed hundreds out of everything they own? Did you hear about that? Or about the fact that contract mercinaries in Iraq dont have to follow any law and can kill whomever they want? Like how that one got drunk and shot and killed the Iraqi presidents bodyguard? Or how Haliburton was given the largest civil works contract in human history illegally? Or the suspension of human rights regarding POWs thus committing war crimes in direct violation of the Geneva Convention, as order by the White House? Or how about political threats against the media for reporting opposition to the administrations policies? Cover ups and illegal operations dont exist? Keep dreaming, they're counting on it.



All of which were reported in the news a million times so where's the cover up? :rofl::rofl:

reading ftw :lol:

[H82GOSLW]

EDIT: I had a longer respond typed out but what's the point..

I agree....I was going to respond to Sheep Boy's commentary, but what's the point.

[zuuhlsT/A]

Gimme Perot again and I would vote for him. I believe it's time for the USA to worry about the USA, Screw the rest of the world. Isolationism could work wonders. Increase national security and stop worrying how much it'll cost. Run this country like a business and stop whoring out our tax dollars. Every year we spend billions upon billions of dollars to try to fix the worlds ill's and it achieves nothing. We got people here that need help too. Put up a HUGE wall with a sign on it that say's DO NOT ENTER. I'm tired of my tax money being spent on policies and people that are illegal and don't belong here. It's time for CLUB USA to close the doors and say the hell with the rest of you. We try to help and we get called the bad guys. So I say let them feel what it's like not having us around. Maybe the world will see the truth then.

Oh, and please knock it off with that " you hurt my feelings crap ". Get over it people. What a bunch of namby pamby little bitches some of the country has turned into. Makes me sick!

[Frosty]

Isolationism can't work anymore. Back in the day, maybe. Not now, the economy is switching to work a world wide economy. We have WAY too many interests in a lot of other countries.

[zuuhlsT/A]

OK. Maybe Isolationism won't work but you gotta agree we gotta start looking out for ourselves. I mean come on, the world has a bad taste in their mouths everytime they say USA unless they got they're hand out looking for money.

[johnjzjz]

and on another NOTE 3000 shops that had been closed in Baghdad re opened in the month of OCT - our boys are doing the job BTW - contrary to what some believe -- it is and has been working in IRAQ of course some still think the drive by left media is Gospel -- jz

[Blacdout96]

The problem is thsi is exactly how The taliban wanted to do to America. They dont care about when they crashed into thw WTC and the pentagon, that was the lighter actually to what has become the fuse and bomb of this nation. think about it, how was this country doing before 9/11, pretty well, but wiht politics making us fear to go outside anymore ( if you remember the threat alert system a few years back that became the boy who cried wolf over time and now has been thrown back into the closet of failed attempts to keep the American people wanting to back up the presidents decisions) its making this country go down, they want to tear us down as a super power. Even if we put a new president in there, things arent goign to change instantly, in order for America to regain balance, a series of decisions will need to be correctly answer over a course of oh say, the next 10-20 years. Why that long? because you cant shock the American system and way of life. We were shocked when we had been attack on our own land, something that hasent been done by an outside country in almost 150 years, noone knew how to take it and things went hay wire. If we changed things right away, like withdraw all the troops, and try to rebound the economy, it would shock us, and might not be executed properly, and once again make us go into a dwindling economy that we have. Same thing for Iraq, we cant just make them have democracy the next day and everybody go OK, it was a shock to them that they no longer had to fear a ruler who would not only kill you but your family as well, they were fine the way they were and we should of never touched them, and they dont know freedom, so they've gone haywire adn look at them now, they once praised us, and now they are killing us. If you've noticed, since world war 1, this country has had, what I call an arch rival that we despise. First it was Germany, then once the war was over, we hated Russia, and the nKorea, and then Vietnam and then the middle east, and it continues today, Why are we fed that these countries have are bad and we should hate them? because what is the better way to rally up support in the American society, and make then go LETS GO TO WAR!! better then saying that country hates us and wants to attack us. Not in a million years was AMerica goign to fire upon Russia, and same goes for them, why, we were at a stailmate, we knew jsut as much as they knew that we had about 10,000 nukes aimed at each others country, but the media and politics made us fear and hate them. We would be hating China right now, but why dont we? I mean they are a Communist country? we never attacked them in the history of asian communist countries, it was the biggest one, but why not? cause they can produce things so cheaply there, to fight them and loose our trade abilities would kill our economy, that right kill it. There are factories there that we dont have there, and to have them cut off for us would make us scramble to build them and kill major businesses, which as well companies like Mattel, and such hav big money invested into those factories, so who helps pay for the presidency campaigns and slip a little money and go oh by the way leave them alone we got a factory over there and we wouldnt want anything to happen to it right? Politics are all dirt people, the peopel will never win because as much as we protest, as much as we voice our words, hell as much has the media posts it, nothign changes their mind, not since the 1960's. Bush should of been impeached for all of the illegal tactics and decisions he has made, goign over certain peoples heads, ignoring the Geneva contracts, and falsifying information about Iraq that they had weapons and were gonna use them. all he had to say was weapons and taliban in that country and im sure 80% of this country said lets go in thee and kick some *** without really questioning his information or how he got it, we were blinded, just like with Russia and Korea, and Vietnam. The last war America should of rightfully be in was WWII. Anywho, we have not impeached this guy, yet we ewre ready to give the axe on Clinton after a little some some he got on the side and told a lie, but to be honest thats his personal life, did it affect the economy, no, did it make us go to war, no then it was blown up more then it needed to be. And we are loosing in Iraq, your not goignto hear a father go, yeah my son said were loosing badly, he doesnt even know why he's over there to fight, Im with you BigAl, we lost our grip in Afghan, I know, I got peopel over there right now telling me whats up, and Iraq never hada chance, but theres nothign we can do about it, just like Vietnam and Korea, we cant withdrawl right away, it would be a Shock.

[johnjzjz]

BLACDOUT 96 WROTE +++++++ Clinton after a little some some he got on the side and told a lie, but to be honest thats his personal life, did it affect the economy, no, did it make us go to war, no then it was blown up more then it needed to be

SOOOOO i guess the 200 plus marines that were killed -- bombed over in the middle east - meant nothing - and the unprovoked attack on the US NAVY killing sailors ( on his watch ) -- your right he did nothing and its all bushes fault 911 -- get on line loonies to the left -- left UN checked these people the US solders are fighting would kneel you down first for head removal -- jz

[BonzoHansen]

...and unemployment increasing...Nope.

---------------------------------------------
Strong October Jobs Growth Sends Another Mixed Signal on Economy
By SUDEEP REDDY November 3, 2007; Page A1 WSJ

A surprising surge in October payrolls suggested a U.S. economy running at two speeds -- with strength in the service sector offsetting weakness from a plummeting housing sector and gyrating credit markets.

Employers added 166,000 jobs in October, the Labor Department said, the most in five months. The unemployment rate remained unchanged at 4.7% despite widespread worries that the odds of a recession are rising.

"Parts of the economy are fraying, but the labor market hasn't broken," said J.P. Morgan economist Haseeb Ahmed.

Friday's report capped a week of conflicting signals. Earlier in the week, the government said the economy grew at a robust 3.9% pace in the third quarter, helped by surging exports. Yet consumer confidence fell, and a survey of purchasing managers suggested a loss of momentum for manufacturers.

Credit-market worries, meanwhile, reemerged due to troubles at major banks, leading to a sharp sell-off in stocks; the Dow Jones Industrial Average rose 27.23 to close at 13595.10 on Friday, but for the week was off 1.5%, or 211.60. Crude oil continued its steady rise, with the benchmark crude-oil futures price up $2.49 to $95.93 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, another new nominal high. Gold futures smashed $800 an ounce, hitting $810.70 an ounce, and recently traded at $807.90.

The Federal Reserve cut its key interest rate by one-quarter percentage point this past week, citing its expectation that the economy "will likely slow in the near term," and signaled its reluctance to cut rates again. But even after the upbeat employment report, financial markets continue to anticipate another quarter-point rate cut in December. "One day you see financial turmoil and financial markets going crazy, and the next day you see a number of good jobs being created. It makes you much less certain about what [the Fed] needs to do," said Brian Fabbri, BNP Paribas's chief economist for North America.

Friday's cheery employment headlines didn't dispel many economists' diagnosis that that the U.S. economy is slowing significantly, pulled down by a persistent decline in housing construction and housing prices. The volatility in financial markets continues to create unease. "It's those abysmal sectors that are going to create more financial problems, and those financial problems are going to feed back into the economy and create more weakness ahead," said Mr. Fabbri, who, like many other forecasters, expects fourth-quarter growth of between 1% and 1.5%.

Many forecasters expect weaker consumer spending to push growth lower. Paul Ashworth, an economist at Capital Economics Ltd., a London-based research firm, said the economy faces the risk of contracting due to plummeting consumer confidence, higher oil prices and the effects of the housing downturn. "I'd probably characterize the October payroll figures as the last hurrah," he said.

The International Monetary Fund's new chief, Dominique Strauss-Kahn called the jobs numbers "much more than expected," but said no recent developments in the global had changed the IMF's view that the U.S. economy would slow in 2008, but avoid recession. "There is no evident signal that it [U.S. economy] will go further than a slowdown," he told reporters.

Much of October's payroll increase came in restaurants, leisure and hospitality, education, health and professional business services. Payrolls fell in manufacturing and construction and in housing-related finance, though finance as a whole added jobs.

Temporary employment, sometimes seen as a leading indicator of overall job trends, rose as well after declining since February. Temp agencies had been struggling all year, depending on growth abroad to offset weak U.S. results.

Adecco SA, the world's largest temp-employment firm, said Friday that third-quarter world-wide revenues rose 2% while revenue in the U.S. and Canada dropped 8%. "We don't see a recession in the U.S.," Chief Executive Dieter Scheiff told investors. "And we continue to see solid growth rates in Europe and Asia."

A seasonally adjusted drop in payrolls among retailers could portend caution heading into the holiday shopping season. OfficeMax, for instance, reported disappointing earnings growth this past week, and CEO Sam Duncan said the firm would slash costs and adjust its promotional plans "in light of more cautious shopping trends by retail consumers and small businesses."

"This is supposed to be, like, the worst holiday season in four or five years, and that concerns us," he said on a conference call.

Average hourly earnings of production and non-supervisory rose just 0.2% in October, the smallest increase since March, a sign that households may not have as much to spend in coming months, but economists said that reading may have been distorted because a large number of jobs added in October were lower-wage jobs. Hourly earnings are up 3.8% from a year ago. The Labor Department's measure of the total number of hours worked in the economy is running 1.5% ahead of last October, an increase but significantly slower than the 2.6% increase in the previous 12 months.

The jobs report is subject to substantial revisions; the report on August employment initially showed a drop of 4,000 jobs, which is now estimated to be a gain of about 93,000. The government now says employers added 96,000 jobs in September, down 14,000 from its initial estimate. Job gains of about 100,000 a month, given current demographics, are generally considered enough to keep the unemployment rate steady.

But Dean Baker. co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, a left-leaning Washington think tank, noted that October marked another month in the ongoing decline in the fraction of the population working, now at 62.7%. "This drop is being driven by younger workers, as people over age 55 continue to work in growing numbers," he said.
---------------------------------------------


And you deficit hounds should realize the deficit has been shrinking. And when compared to budget size, the % is not even close to historical levels. Thanks to tax cuts, esp capital gains. Any economist worth his weight in pretzels knows lower tax rates leads to increased growth which leads to higher gross tax collections.

The problem with the hillary led dems is they will tax us back into recession. I fear that.

And my #1 complaint with billy clinton (who had his good points) was he was a pussy driven by polls when it came to defense. He had his chance to clean stuff up but they always backed out due to fear of public reprisal.

[Blacdout96]

BLACDOUT 96 WROTE +++++++ Clinton after a little some some he got on the side and told a lie, but to be honest thats his personal life, did it affect the economy, no, did it make us go to war, no then it was blown up more then it needed to be

SOOOOO i guess the 200 plus marines that were killed -- bombed over in the middle east - meant nothing - and the unprovoked attack on the US NAVY killing sailors ( on his watch ) -- your right he did nothing and its all bushes fault 911 -- get on line loonies to the left -- left UN checked these people the US solders are fighting would kneel you down first for head removal -- jz

So your saying a blowjob killed those sailors, thats right cause they were killed in Amer...oh wait that was over in Yemen, thats right, half way around the damn world, not on American soil, not like Cinton was on that boat god for bid so blame him, or on watch to look out for those dumbasses in the small dingy. And even though he had info on 9/11, Since your saying, hot shot, that Bush is so much better, then shouldnt he have tackled the issue, your saying it like clinton was the only person to have the info, well guess what news flash for ya buddy, Bush had it too, and had better and more exact information over the period of time her took office till 9/11. so tough luck on making my OPINION look bad, go back to reading and living the bible and saying the Religious republican way is the right way, Seperation of Church and state my ***, boy has that been thrown outthe window. neither of the sides are right. republican and democrate, I just dont like Republicans cause they follow the bible, a 2000 year old book, and not the future.

[BonzoHansen]

Clinton's ongoing lack of response on similar matters embolded the terroroists, plus he failed to effectively follow up on that one too. Clinton was very poor at dealing with those matters.

And Clinton was very driven by PR. Polls during the whole lewinsky thing lead the administration to believe launching attacks would further hurt the party. So no counter ataacks occured.

While I think the whole monica gate thing was uber-stupid, his bowing to polls was also a big mistake.

Real republicans are not the religious right kooks you see today. There are no real republicans right now, but maybe rudy and mccain (he lost his spine).

Edit, oh yeah, ron paul too. lower taxes, smaller govt.

[Blacdout96]

Clinton's ongoing lack of response on similar matters embolded the terroroists, plus he failed to effectively follow up on that one too. Clinton was very poor at dealing with those matters.

And Clinton was very driven by PR. Polls during the whole lewinsky thing lead the administration to believe launching attacks would further hurt the party. So no counter ataacks occured.

While I think the whole monica gate thing was uber-stupid, his bowing to polls was also a big mistake.

Real republicans are not the religious right kooks you see today. There are no real republicans right now, but maybe rudy and mccain (he lost his spine).

haha,whenI think of religious republicans, i think of the one episode of American Dad when god calls Bush: http://youtube.com/watch?v=k39LUxiZW5Y

Im not saying clinton was the man, he was bad at dealing with things like that, but you gotta admit, he was a little better then bush as a president.

[BonzoHansen]

haha,whenI think of religious republicans, i think of the one episode of American Dad when god calls Bush: http://youtube.com/watch?v=k39LUxiZW5Y

Im not saying clinton was the man, he was bad at dealing with things like that, but you gotta admit, he was a little better then bush as a president.

I'm no bush supporter. But he did inherit an already shrinking economy that was crushed by 9/11, which was carried out by carzy people clinton enabled. GB2 had his chance to 'do it right' and failed miserably.

But hey, GB1 was also a poll pansy. That is why he didn't finish off iraq in GWI. He sucked too.

Bring back Ike!

[johnjzjz]

i think every American no matter man or woman should have been required to spend 3 years of there life in the US Military - just so they can in a small way pay back to the USA the rights they so express - with no real knowledge but what they have been sold by those with bias twards the USA -- jz

[JohnG]

Isolationism can't work anymore.

why not ?

EVERY.

SINGLE.

THING.

we need, as Americans, can be found or made, within the 50 states.


the world needs us more than we need them.

[JohnG]

and on another NOTE 3000 shops that had been closed in Baghdad re opened in the month of OCT - our boys are doing the job BTW - contrary to what some believe -- it is and has been working in IRAQ of course some still think the drive by left media is Gospel -- jz

OK, a glimmer of progress, I'll grant you that.

but, has/will it been/be worth it ? in terms of the cost of American lives/dollars ??

we've had 30 years to look back at Vietnam, and the answer is a resounding NO.

it's only been 4 years in Iraq, and already the cost/benefit ratio says the answer there too is NO.

[JohnG]

Strong October Jobs Growth Sends Another Mixed Signal on Economy

one month, dude. one month.

Any economist worth his weight in pretzels knows lower tax rates leads to increased growth which leads to higher gross tax collections.

IF the $$ saved from lower taxes gets RE-INVESTED, not SPENT.

The problem with the hillary led dems is they will tax us back into recession.

oh yeah, all the Clinton "taxes" of 92 - 00 did was lead us to a budget SURPLUS -- a surplus that Bush II squandered in 01 by giving us all a $300 check.

sure, the $300 was nice -- but I could've lived without it. especially when I'm paying TRIPLE what I should be paying for a gallon of gasoline !!


And my #1 complaint with billy clinton (who had his good points) was he was a pussy driven by polls

why is that a bad thing ?

isn't it "elected by the people, for the people" ?

I want my president to represent my best interests, not the best interests of Texas oil company CEO's

[JohnG]

i think every American no matter man or woman should have been required to spend 3 years of there life in the US Military - just so they can in a small way pay back to the USA the rights they so express - with no real knowledge but what they have been sold by those with bias twards the USA -- jz

I hear what you're saying, but it's totally impractical,
if not impossible...

[JohnG]

Clinton's ongoing lack of response on similar matters embolded the terroroists, plus he failed to effectively follow up on that one too. Clinton was very poor at dealing with those matters.

uh, hello ?

from '94 to '04, Congress was controlled by the REPUGNICANS.

"you can be patriotic, and support the troops -- without supporting the President's decision to send them there"

...1995, Tom DeLay (R-TX): speaking about Clinton's actions with respect to Kosovo

[Blacdout96]

John G, FTW, bringing in the 411 on Bonzo. I would continue to talk to those two, but just like all republicans, they dont listen to you, but you better listen to them cause they are always right,even when wrong

[Knipps]

why not ?

EVERY.

SINGLE.

THING.

we need, as Americans, can be found or made, within the 50 states.


the world needs us more than we need them.

i don't really care to read all the bickering going on in this thread
but good luck with that pal, do you realize how much we import each day from all over the world? how much it would cost to produce everything here?

[Frosty]

why not ?

EVERY.

SINGLE.

THING.

we need, as Americans, can be found or made, within the 50 states.


the world needs us more than we need them.

Are you willing to pay higher prices for things? Are you willing to have less choice in the products you buy? This isn't the 40's. We've outsourced so much of our industry we're at the point of no return IMO.

[Frosty]

we've had 30 years to look back at Vietnam, and the answer is a resounding NO.



O RLY? Not everyone feels that way, not everyone from that era/generation feels that way.

[SteveR]

Are you willing to pay higher prices for things? Are you willing to have less choice in the products you buy? This isn't the 40's. We've outsourced so much of our industry we're at the point of no return IMO.

Exactly. We import goods, and export jobs. It's all about the profit margin, regardless of how negitively it effects the country. Massive layoffs of US workers, and their jobs being exported overseas, only to increase profits for the company because they dont want to pay US worker saleries. My neighbor does it for a living. He works for some company that goes from corporation to corporation deciding how many and which jobs to contract externally. He actually feels good about himself too.

[BonzoHansen]

John G, FTW, bringing in the 411 on Bonzo. I would continue to talk to those two, but just like all republicans, they dont listen to you, but you better listen to them cause they are always right, even when wrongWhat? Bring the 411 on me? Did you read what I wrote? Don't you lump me in with right hand ramblings. I certainly did not throw you down for liking BC. I did not and have not shown support for either Bush. Sorry I don't think Clinton was the greatest guy on the planet, nor do I think GB2 has mismanaged everything. And I replied why some people think his 'affairs' had an impact on things down the road. Who won't listen?

one month, dude. one month.
No. Check out the unemployment numbers. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/UNRATE.txt I commented on ‘unemployment increasing.’ It has remained pretty steady over the past 18 or so months. According to the BLS (http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?data_tool=latest_numbers&series_id=CES0000000001&output_view=net_1mth), there has been job growth since September 2003. I’m not saying it is enough, but there has been growth. Unemployment in that time has not been low enough, but it is certainly not out of control, it is a few points above what economists argue is normal unemployment.

Any economist worth his weight in pretzels knows lower tax rates leads to increased growth which leads to higher gross tax collections. If the $$ saved from lower taxes gets RE-INVESTED, not SPENTI agree. So stop spending instead of raising taxes. It’s happening right here in NJ. If NJ could figure that out maybe the population exodus being reported would stop. They are taxing us out. Rampant spending does not make my statement wrong. It makes the spending wrong.

And my #1 complaint with billy clinton (who had his good points) was he was a pussy driven by pollswhy is that a bad thing ?

isn't it "elected by the people, for the people" ?

I want my president to represent my best interests, not the best interests of Texas oil company CEO'sAgain, I do not disagree on the Bush Administration & oil. However, a leader should make tough calls. Clinton failed to follow up on attacks on our citizens because he was more concerned with popularity then doing what was right. The Lewinski thing (again I disagreed with the whole thing; I could care less what he was doing) should not have impacted his decision to go after terrorists. But it did. After he left office, I heard him say that in intereviews.

oh yeah, all the Clinton "taxes" of 92 - 00 did was lead us to a budget SURPLUS -- a surplus that Bush II squandered in 01 by giving us all a $300 check.

sure, the $300 was nice -- but I could've lived without it. especially when I'm paying TRIPLE what I should be paying for a gallon of gasoline !!Yeah, none of that came because of the insane stock market prices. The Fed had more to do (blame?) for that then the central government.

Typical politics and why threads like this often suck, and talking politics in general sucks. God forbid you point out positives or negatives on either side. No one is allowed to see both sides or makes points about both sides. Which is of course exactly what the politicians want – they want us to takes sides.

[BonzoHansen]

Exactly. We import goods, and export jobs. It's all about the profit margin, regardless of how negitively it effects the country. Massive layoffs of US workers, and their jobs being exported overseas, only to increase profits for the company because they dont want to pay US worker saleries. My neighbor does it for a living. He works for some company that goes from corporation to corporation deciding how many and which jobs to contract externally. He actually feels good about himself too.

I hate seeing our manufacturing jobs leave, I strongly feel we need to revamp that base. But a company's job is to make money, not be patriotic. Our government's job is to level the playing field, which they have not. And both administarations are to blame. Globalization is here and in theory is good for U.S. business. But the playing field has to be leveled.

[jims69camaro]

the only problem with quoting unemployment numbers is that quite a few people stay on unemployment until it runs out, and then they drop off the books. they are no longer counted as unemployed, even though they obviously are.

the people are always clamoring for a minority or a woman to run as president. not that they would ever win. the good ol' boys would take care of that, i guarantee. there have been accusations of fixing the polls in the past, imagine how creative they would get if hillary or obama got within 20% of the majority...

[johnjzjz]

I resent being called a Republican just because i do not agree with the bull the far left is feeding you and you believe -- i for one am not that Naive and here's why -- does any one remember Nixon and Kissinger -- well they were republicans and i have nothing good to say about ether one of them -- in 1973 at the Paris Peace talks Nixon / Kissinger made a deal with the then north Vietnamese, we as a country were supposed to pay WAR Reparations, a war BTW Kennedy started he was no republican -- the deal that was made -- 1/2 the prisoners were to be released the money paid ( WAR Reparations )and than the rest of the then prisoners would come home --- WELL Girls we got only the officers back -- if you have ever seen the news reals about it only the officers got off the planes --- than Nixon went on TV and said we were not paying war reparations, and what happen NEXT is not talked about on ether side of the isle, because they were both at fault, the north Vietnamese did not return a single regular GI they had held -- WE as a nation knew they were in prisons many story's and reports about it i am sure you have read about it as well -- now one can only look at it and say no GIs survived that were captured because they were sick -- OR -- they were all killed after they the north were screwed -- who's to say i don't know for sure -- but NO prisoners that were released From Vietnam were any thing but offerers -- THINK about that for just one moment --- that was the republicans who made that deal -- NOW -- go ahead give me one just one name of a regular GI who came back as a prisoner YOU CANT their are non - i am an independent and look at who can do the job -- and the Democratic party is not what it once was, it has sold out to special interest just like the the Republicans don't you agree - having said all of this --- the political tide flows in and out meaning those who are looking to run for office look at the are the favorites and jump on -- turn coats if you will -- but this election will forever carve a path to freedom or destruction as i see it -- and you must choose wisely not take what a pundit feeds you -- lots on merkey water flowing from all their mouths -- jz

[Slow 88]

HELLO... she is a Democrat! That is what they do.

Hillary = the death of America

Death of America has been happening for quite a while now!!! The mighty dollar is getting weaker by the second!! Also, people seem to forget that Bush said that he will be taking oil in trade to aid the war in Iraq and NOTHING is said!!!! Now we the American people are paying for it but Americans aren't saying a word, GO FIGURE!!! But, when Clinton recieved a BJ they wanted him impeached, now that is something that did not effect ANY of us but the OIL PRICES DO!!! So, anyway death of America has ALREADY begun for some time!!!

[Blacdout96]

Death of America has been happening for quite a while now!!! The mighty dollar is getting weaker by the second!! Also, people seem to forget that Bush said that he will be taking oil in trade to aid the war in Iraq and NOTHING is said!!!! Now we the American people are paying for it but Americans aren't saying a word, GO FIGURE!!! But, when Clinton recieved a BJ they wanted him impeached, now that is something that did not effect ANY of us but the OIL PRICES DO!!! So, anyway death of America has ALREADY begun for some time!!!

thats another vote for BJ didnt hurt America, just its presidents image, I mean comeon, beign the prez, you think he'd of gotten something a little more....hotter, but fat chicks need loving too

[SteveR]

We criticize Clinton for getting a BJ from an ugly chick, and high five Kennedy for boning Merilyn Monroe :shrug:

[BonzoHansen]

We criticize Clinton for getting a BJ from an ugly chick, and high five Kennedy for boning Merilyn Monroe :shrug:

Right.

[johnjzjz]

We criticize Clinton for getting a BJ from an ugly chick, and high five Kennedy for boning Merilyn Monroe :shrug:

that did not happen till they were both dead -- their were rumors but not like Clinton - and all seem to forget he went on national TV at 8 O'Clock and pointed his finger at the TV ( and you ) and said he did not have relations with that woman M L -- its the blatant disrespect for the office of the presidency - the reason he was WAS impeached -- but both houses of gov did not have real ba$$s to follow it to the end -- jz

[Slow 88]

that did not happen till they were both dead -- their were rumors but not like Clinton - and all seem to forget he went on national TV at 8 O'Clock and pointed his finger at the TV ( and you ) and said he did not have relations with that woman M L -- its the blatant disrespect for the office of the presidency - the reason he was WAS impeached -- but both houses of gov did not have real ba$$s to follow it to the end -- jz


Now did that effect you personally? NOOOO!!! What he did was try to cover up for being a married scumbag like any other cheating guy does.....DENY till the end!!! BUT, Bush is in your wallet and you don't care?!?!

[Blacdout96]

that did not happen till they were both dead -- their were rumors but not like Clinton - and all seem to forget he went on national TV at 8 O'Clock and pointed his finger at the TV ( and you ) and said he did not have relations with that woman M L -- its the blatant disrespect for the office of the presidency - the reason he was WAS impeached -- but both houses of gov did not have real ba$$s to follow it to the end -- jz

So wait what about when bush went on air and looked atteh American public and said that we have undeniable proof that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, had his who cabinet back him up, and even after we find out there arent any he still pats himself on the back with a banner that says mission accomplished......so lets see, blow job ,or 5000+deaths from falsified weapons claims, and a civil war playing out in the middle of a country we had no right to be in in the first place, hmmmm makes you wonder whats worse.

[trashman01]

sure, the $300 was nice -- but I could've lived without it. especially when I'm paying TRIPLE what I should be paying for a gallon of gasoline !!

actually we are paying less then what we should be paying for gas if u go by the rate of inflation.

[johnjzjz]

some place in the lost news you didn't read or care to Saddam gassed and killed 50,000 Kurds some say 150,000 - they were and are people of Iraq - i am led to believe - of course they were from the other side of the tracks as its put the left side of the church not the right -- so they and what happened doesn't matter ???? -- ( death gas is a WMD - BTW UN Standards as well a world law after WW1 ) and that was one of the small things that happened -- in Japan some terrorist went into their subway and gassed it i know i read that -- so its post 911 just a couple months into bushes election and the dems are fighting every appointment like its the very last thing they will ever do ( just take this one example nothing else its not enough ?????? ) and we know he did that to the Kurds and now their are people running around doing things like this ( 3 to 4 million people use the NYC subway every day ) ( catch 22 your idea do nothing because nothing has happened - me not that naive realize the NSA CIA FBI and others have been involved in stopping 100s if not thousands of attacks on US soil now go on and say you don't believe it because its not on the news = = national security issue dude == your take is ????????????? i have no idea and their were no WMDs -- some believe me included that anything that could have gotten him in trouble was sent to Syria he thought we would just look -- and in case you are not paying attention again to whats going on turkey and Pakistan are carving pieces for them selves as we speak -- if the US backed government falls in Pakistan all hell is going to break loose -- its a world today that the USA cant sit buy and just watch -- they don't teach History anymore its not politically correct but it does repeat it self and Hitler buy any other name is who we are fighting to save your kids lives -- boy i hope some day you get it -- jz

[Slow 88]

Did Saddam try to gas us??? NOOOO!!!! So, why does the American people have to take him out of power and take care of the citizens who DOES not want US there and just keep killing our Soldiers left and right with car bombs!!!!! TELL ME WHY THIS IS!!!?????????

[johnjzjz]

go watch another Michael Moree movie -- your lost -- 911 was an attack but your on Rosie's side bush and the inside job -- just like the other guy on here the cops are killing the homeless for Rudy -- i have come to the part - its a waste of time to continue a one way debate --- jz

[SteveR]

some place in the lost news you didn't read or care to Saddam gassed and killed 50,000 Kurds some say 150,000 - they were and are people of Iraq - i am led to believe - of course they were from the other side of the tracks as its put the left side of the church not the right -- so they and what happened doesn't matter ???? -- ( death gas is a WMD - BTW UN Standards as well a world law after WW1

and guess who supplied him with those chemical weapons. We did.

[JohnG]

actually we are paying less then what we should be paying for gas if u go by the rate of inflation.

we should be paying no more than $1.50 / gallon for regular...

the price is being run up by speculative traders, looking to hedge their other stock market losses...

cheap gasoline is your birthright as an American citizen.

[BonzoHansen]

cheap gasoline is your birthright as an American citizen.:shock:

[Knipps]

we should be paying no more than $1.50 / gallon for regular...

the price is being run up by speculative traders, looking to hedge their other stock market losses...

cheap gasoline is your birthright as an American citizen.

have you even looked at the price of gas across the globe?
nevermind per gallon, countries are paying more than we do per LITER

[BonzoHansen]

have you even looked at the price of gas across the globe?
nevermind per gallon, countries are paying more than we do per LITER

Nevermind that oil prices are being driven by china's inquenchable thirst for oil Gas prices were lower this summer due to overstock (damn that supply & demand).

[Slow 88]

have you even looked at the price of gas across the globe?
nevermind per gallon, countries are paying more than we do per LITER

The reason why other countries pay more is for the fact that they some of the monies goes towards their health care and such..

[Slow 88]

go watch another Michael Moree movie -- your lost -- 911 was an attack but your on Rosie's side bush and the inside job -- just like the other guy on here the cops are killing the homeless for Rudy -- i have come to the part - its a waste of time to continue a one way debate --- jz


Look dude I've never even watched a Michael Moore movie, I am just stating the facts...Since you know everything about this war then why are we not in Iran the ones that funded the terrorist attacks!! Look I am all for protecting our country but damn atleast go to the right country!! LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN!!! SADDAM HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ATTACK ON AMERICA!!!!!! IRAN DID!!!! Although is was he scumbag to his people and deserved what he got definitely!!!! Also, it was your republicans that put Saddam in office by way of Pres. Reagan....So, I think your lost......... Jim

[johnjzjz]

a small piece of history i will spell it out for you all the wars the USA has fought have been from moves designed to minimize our losses contrary to what you believe ( not taught in school today ) if you jump with both feet in a bees nest their is no escape -- the real reason we did not go into Iran first you need those behind you not to shoot at you BTW -- i can give examples for any war we fought but its not necessary --- Iran Syria and a host of other country's in the world -- who BTW want all of us dead their not interested in peace -- this war with them started in the crusades - what was that ???????? you might ask - Christians on one side and Islam on the other litterly 1000s of years ago -- the your god is not the right one war -- our country was founded on freedom of religious beliefs & being a freedom of expression, well today its not what those on the far left want in our country -- another topic -- Iran is and has been on the top of the list as Syria and Venezuela Cuba > hello Russia is selling them the gas BTW we as a country are humanitarian, and the selling of mustard gas ( first appeared in WW1 used on our troops BTW ) is and has not been done -- the far left stuff u read or hear from the communist professors is all bull DUDE they are full of it all of them X hippie over educated buffoons with an addenda not in our country's interest is what is teaching the younger kids today - and you will not see that until you are lined up against a wall just before being shot buy the same people you think did nothing to us -- its the religious right who believes in piece and Harmony and freedoms this country was founded on who ends up with a gun in his hand to defend your right to criticize them doing it -- your lost son and may never well lets hope some day the light will come on -- jz

[mtnhopper1]

i can give examples for any war we fought but its not necessary --- Iran Syria and a host of other country's in the world -- who BTW want all of us dead their not interested in peace -- this war with them started in the crusades - what was that ???????? you might ask - Christians on one side and Islam on the other litterly 1000s of years ago -- the your god is not the right one war

So you're saying that our current conflict in the Middle east goes back to the Crusades? Okay, I'll buy that.

Christians attack the Muslims in Jereuselem because the Christians believe that Muslims shouldn't have control of the Christians' most holy place (with fabricated justification in what started out as a marketing/recruiting scheme for christianity - motivated by one priest's desire to gain wider notoriety). BTW, Muslims worship the same God as the Christians.

US attacks Iraq with fabricated justification in a marketing scheme for "patriotism" (mostly motivated by G-Dub's personal political agenda).

I can see a parallel there.

If you're interested, Jonathan Riley-Smith has written a number of recent books that look at the Crusades in the context of the current Middle East situation.

our country was founded on freedom of religious beliefs & being a freedom of expression, well today its not what those on the far left want in our country

Huh? Presumably you mean freedom of religious beliefs, generally (including Muslim). Are you saying G-Dub is on the far left (see above)? News to me.

the far left stuff u read or hear from the communist professors is all bull DUDE they are full of it all of them X hippie over educated buffoons with an addenda not in our country's interest is what is teaching the younger kids today - and you will not see that until you are lined up against a wall just before being shot buy the same people you think did nothing to us

That sounds like freedom to me... NOT! If the "x hippie over educated baffoons" are lined up and shot for their beliefs, it kinda proves that they were right all along.

Oh, and speaking of education, have you ever heard of punctuation? It's easier to make your point when your reader can understand what you write.

its the religious right who believes in piece and Harmony and freedoms this country was founded on who ends up with a gun in his hand to defend your right to criticize them doing it -- your lost son and may never well lets hope some day the light will come on

Am I crazy, or does this conclusion make absolutely no sense in light of the rest of your argument? Maybe I didn't understand what you wrote (punctuation), but let me see if I have this straight:

-G-Dub inspired the Crusades of the modern era, motivated by the Muslim's god not being "the right one."

-Our country was founded on freedom of religious beliefs, and its the "left" that is out to restrain those beliefs (I thought you said it was G-Dub starting the Crusades to repress religion?)

-The "people you think did nothing for us" (presumably, the G-Dub administration/right wing/republicans), are going to line up all of the people who disagree with them and shoot them.

And Finally:
-the religious right (who is going to shoot the dissenters) believes in "peace and harmony," but only for those who have guns... or more particularly, only for those to whom they give guns. The "your lost sons" thing lost me (punctuation), but I assume you're trying to pull in the "our soldiers are dying for you" card - which doesn't really work when you consider who sent them to fight in the first place.

You are right about one thing, the light - at least for me - hasn't come on with respect to your argument. I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Mostly, you sound like a parrot that spent too much time with Bill O'Riley and Rush Limbaugh.

[WildBillyT]

Typical politics and why threads like this often suck, and talking politics in general sucks. God forbid you point out positives or negatives on either side. No one is allowed to see both sides or makes points about both sides. Which is of course exactly what the politicians want – they want us to takes sides.

That's the real deal. NOBODY on here knows all the facts. End of story. Argue until you are blue in the face all you want. Just keep it civil.

Here's something to help you all out, it seems like it will get some good use in here:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/double_overdrive496/mat.jpg

[johnjzjz]

IF YOUR GOING TO POINT A FINGER AT LEAST SPELL CORRECTLY

YOU WROTE : Christians attack the Muslims in Jereuselem < ( Jerusalem )


YOU WROTE : (mostly motivated by G-Dub's personal political agenda).

AND INSULTING THE OFFICE AND THE SITTING PRESIDENT does not fly as well at least use his correct initials

YOU WROTE : If you're interested, Jonathan Riley-Smith has written a number of recent books that look at the Crusades in the context of the current Middle East situation.

I AM SURE HE HAS HIS INTERRUPTION JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE

YOU WROTE :Christians attack the Muslims in Jerusalem because the Christians believe that Muslims shouldn't have control of the Christians' most holy place

Why does that sound like what is going on in Israel -- since 1948 we have supported them and now we have the mess they started its the same one you mentioned above is it not --


---2--- you wrote -- Are you saying G-Dub is on the far left (see above)? News to me.

someone will have to explain how he got that ?????????? from what i wrote


----3-----you wrote --That sounds like freedom to me... NOT! If the "x hippie over educated buffoons" are lined up and shot for their beliefs, it kinda proves that they were right all along.

What i get from that is after they are in the city's and they are burning what then -- not unlike what happened in Rome - they all turned a blind eye and despises the army just like our own far left do --


---4 --- you wrote-- Oh, and speaking of education, have you ever heard of punctuation? It's easier to make your point when your reader can understand what you write.

your correct NO excuses


And the last part tweaked me, you know nothing of dead soldiers, or whats its like to be their and what they the soldiers believe and or the Christian right -- and the next time you see a far left liberal in uniform willing to give his like for his country it will be the first one -- leftest only tell you what they think you should be doing -- no action just words -- what bill o or rush have to say is their opinion only -- i could list dozens of Far left loons so what -- you don't understand i don't think so - you don't agree and don't have an equal argument so pick on the way i write SWEET -- jz

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Johnjz I think what he meant by GWB being on the left was sarcastic, but meant to show that he is taking freedom away like you claim the far left is.

I could be wrong but I believe that is what mtnhopper is getting at.
(I am remaining neutral in this moment).

[mtnhopper1]

Johnjz I think what he meant by GWB being on the left was sarcastic, but meant to show that he is taking freedom away like you claim the far left is.

I could be wrong but I believe that is what mtnhopper is getting at.
(I am remaining neutral in this moment).

Right. I'm glad someone got it.

[mtnhopper1]

IF YOUR GOING TO POINT A FINGER AT LEAST SPELL CORRECTLY

You must be joking. Do you really want to start this fight?

Go spell-check your last three posts and think about it.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Right. I'm glad someone got it.

Wooohoo Do I get a cookie? :lol:

[BonzoHansen]

This thread has runs it course. Bye bye before it deteriorates anymore....