What would it take

[bubba428]

To make a 383 stroker put out 600 N/A HP. As son as the '94 is drivable I'm building something real nasty for the '86

[WildBillyT]

Big heads, wild cam, poor street manners.

[bubba428]

I don't care about street manners...thats what the V6 is for.
I was looking at these parts and I think it would be a sweet combo

Heads DRT-11711143P (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=DRT-11711143P)
Cam LUN-07104LK (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN-07104LK)
Rotating Assembly
ESP-B13454E030 (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ESP-B13454E030)
Intake manifold WND-8501 (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=WND-8501)
Rockers SUM-G6920B (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM-G6920B)

[Tru2Chevy]

Those heads might be a good start, but that is a tiny cam, and you'll want a single plane intake for high RPM horsepower.

- Justin

[bubba428]

I'm looking for my peak to be around 5k...

[transamkid]

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_26178_-1

thats the cam you need
:lol:
.670/.625 lift at 290/306 adv. duration

[bubba428]

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_26178_-1

thats the cam you need
:lol:
.670/.625 lift at 290/306 adv. duration

I'm not trying to go nuts with the cam...I wanna procharge it at some point

[johnjzjz]

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_26178_-1

thats the cam you need
:lol:
.670/.625 lift at 290/306 adv. duration

i used that cam in a 355 race car w/AFR 227 alloys, jessel 1.5 int 1.55 ext made it .655 exhaust, and 14 / 1 comp it did rev 8500 but made no power over 8000 - 3000 lb car, glide, 5:13 - 9 inch, it does have a very small valve adjustment clearence .006 intake - .012 exhaust cold, no room for any mistakes car ran 10:40 132MPH -- jz

[BonzoHansen]

(What would it take) To make a 383 stroker put out 600 N/A HP. As son as the '94 is drivable I'm building something real nasty for the '86

I'm gonna guess $15k-$25k (or more) to do it right (suspension, trans, etc.).

[NightRydaSS]

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_26178_-1

thats the cam you need
:lol:
.670/.625 lift at 290/306 adv. duration

:shock:

that is going to have one hell of a lobe...

[Tru2Chevy]

I'm looking for my peak to be around 5k...

So you want to build a 600 HP N/A small block and only rev it to 5,000 RPM?


I'm not trying to go nuts with the cam...I wanna procharge it at some point

Then you want to Procharge it without swapping the cam?

- Justin

[bubba428]

I want to get the most out of the setup before I run the procharger on it. that way its just getting the carb set up to the amount of boost, instead of pulling the top and front of the motor apart twice I wanna get the internals right the first time

[j0n]

Oh mannnn i would have SOOOOO much fun here but justin would definately erase all my hard work so i won't even try :lol:

[bubba428]

Oh mannnn i would have SOOOOO much fun here but justin would definately erase all my hard work so i won't even try :lol:

haha i could imagine....so then tell me...what cam should I use...say if I decide to keep it N/A

[Tru2Chevy]

You are looking at two completely different animals here.

High hp n/a small blocks generally consist of fairly high compression with a good set of heads, a single plane intake, and a cam optimized for the rest of the setup. The only parts of that motor that would go well with a high hp Procharged setup is the heads and the single plane intake. You'd want a different set of pistons to lower compression, as well as a supercharger cam.

- Justin

[Tru2Chevy]

Oh mannnn i would have SOOOOO much fun here but justin would definately erase all my hard work so i won't even try :lol:

Glad to see you're learning :mrgreen:

- Justin

[johnjzjz]

do you know y u want a supercharger - or someting you just read -- 600 HP and a charger to stand up to the kind of beating you might give it, would need at least a big block snout on the front of the crank, and cross bolted STEEL caps, on the block - machine out the cam tunnel to install timkin roller bearings would not hurt, y not do a stout 383 carb solid cam ???????????? much cheaper -- jz

[ar0ck]

It will take One Million Dollars... Are you going to put a T56 behind it too?

Pat?

[Teds89IROC]

It will take One Million Dollars... Are you going to put a T56 behind it too?

Pat?


:lol: :lol:

[bubba428]

You are looking at two completely different animals here.

High hp n/a small blocks generally consist of fairly high compression with a good set of heads, a single plane intake, and a cam optimized for the rest of the setup. The only parts of that motor that would go well with a high hp Procharged setup is the heads and the single plane intake. You'd want a different set of pistons to lower compression, as well as a supercharger cam.

- Justin

that set up I picked is 11.1:1 comp the manifold is supposed to be good till 6700 rpm. I want my torque and hp to be at a low enough rpm that I can have it be a monster off the line but it still needs to be high enough that it'll carry till the shift. I'll probably gonna shift at around 6500. And no I'm not going to use a T-56, I'll probably get a TK0600 for it.

[ar0ck]

Are you the owner of a Fortune 500 company that we didn't know about? Or rob a bank?

I'm sorry posts like these kill me when people complain about lack of money and say they are going to do this & that. Let me tell you my BUILT motor & front suspension cost just as much my car when I purchased it 3 years ago and I didn't get it cheap either. Building high HP motors is never cost effective. It never works out like it does on paper. Dreams are alright but putting plans in motion where money is a huge factor are pointless. You need MONEY before you commit to anything. And buying used only costs more money in the long run.

[WayFast84]

Stop!

why build a motor for N/A when you are just going to slap a super charger on it? NO NO NO!

Before you touch anything or order parts You need to find some one to build this motor for you and to set up a combo, a 383 for 600hp n/a is going to require perfectly matched parts and probably alot of compression, and compression is not going to be good for a super charger... Jesus, just drive the damn car, and suck it up and bring it to josh, Hes the man!


edit

after reading through, the post, everyone already said what I said, but I didn't erase it, maybe you'll gain your senses hearing it come from my dumb *** mouth...

[Tru2Chevy]

that set up I picked is 11.1:1 comp the manifold is supposed to be good till 6700 rpm. I want my torque and hp to be at a low enough rpm that I can have it be a monster off the line but it still needs to be high enough that it'll carry till the shift. I'll probably gonna shift at around 6500. And no I'm not going to use a T-56, I'll probably get a TK0600 for it.

Are you planning on using this primarily as a drag car?

You sound like you want it to do everything, and usually that just doesn't happen. Motors that make big HP numbers above 6,000 RPM generally don't make huge torque numbers below 2,000 RPM.

You can build a good motor with lots of low and midrange power, or you can build a good motor with lots of midrange and high rpm power, but you sound like you want something that will be an absolute screamer from 1,500 RPM to 6,500 RPM, and that just doesn't work.

- Justin

[Mike]

owned by wayfast, go kill your self.

[Tru2Chevy]

Stop!

Before you touch anything or order parts You need to find some one to build this motor for you and to set up a combo,

Heh....you sound like all of us. I guess you have heard that speech a few times now, huh? :mrgreen:

- Justin

[NJSPEEDER]

your goals are all over the place. do you want power or street manners? do you want all motor or is a power adder in the plans?
600hp is not terribly difficult with a small block if you match your parts properly. jsut be ready to spend some money to do so.
if you are concerned with driving the car, a blower would be a much easier route. it certainly wouldn't be any cheaper, but it would make it easier to maintain the 600hp you desire at a lower RPM.

answer these questions:
N/A or blower?
600hp on pump gas or race gas?
drivability or top end power?
is there an ET or trap speed goal related to this?
how much are you willing to spend?
what knd of time frame do you want to build this?

all of these are important questions to ask yourself and have solid answers for BEFORE you ever look at a single part for an engine.

[WayFast84]

Justin yeah I heard it :rofl:

My personal opinion is he just wants bragging rights to say he has 600 hp then say he has a procharger. we've seen this happen, the only thing i have left to say is, go back to putting turbos on the camaro, that way you don't ruin a thirdgen :mrgreen:

[Tru2Chevy]

I don't care about street manners...thats what the V6 is for.
I was looking at these parts and I think it would be a sweet combo

Heads DRT-11711143P (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=DRT-11711143P)
Cam LUN-07104LK (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=LUN-07104LK)
Rotating Assembly
ESP-B13454E030 (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ESP-B13454E030)
Intake manifold WND-8501 (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=WND-8501)
Rockers SUM-G6920B (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM-G6920B)

Just for fun I stuck these specs into DD2000 (with an 850cfm carb).....

Peak HP: 421 @ 6,000 rpm
Peak TQ: 422 @ 4,500 rpm

Just swapping to a single plane intake from the dual plane....

Peak HP: 454 @ 6,000 rpm
Peak TQ: 438 @ 5,000 rpm

BTW, those heads with that rotating assembly puts you at 9.9:1 compression.

- Justin

[bubba428]

Are you planning on using this primarily as a drag car?

You sound like you want it to do everything, and usually that just doesn't happen. Motors that make big HP numbers above 6,000 RPM generally don't make huge torque numbers below 2,000 RPM.

You can build a good motor with lots of low and midrange power, or you can build a good motor with lots of midrange and high rpm power, but you sound like you want something that will be an absolute screamer from 1,500 RPM to 6,500 RPM, and that just doesn't work.

- Justin

I'm looking for more mid - high end power I'll never use it at a low rpm. I miss phrased what I meant. Ok so say I go with the 5cc domed pistons and the same heads. What cam do you think I should use say If I kept it N/A, and what intake would you suggest.


Matt and arock...Thats why I'm building up a spare block. so If I run into financial issues I still have my car and so I don't have some POS rotting away in my yard.

[Savage_Messiah]

You know you are already in the LethalSkorpionRidez club, right? Are you going for the presidency there or something?

[GP99GT]

so you want to spend all this money, make 600hp, and then put cheapo summit racing roller rockers on it? :lol:

[bubba428]

You know you are already in the LethalSkorpionRidez club, right? Are you going for the presidency there or something?

at least my I'm not making up fake numbers just to run 19s. nor am I claiming to pull tires. I'm just trying to get ideas for my next project. I spent almost a year researching parts for my V6. How do you think I found out about most of the little quirks of the motor. Now I've had my 86 for maybe two month and I'm starting to do the same thing. I most likely won't touch anything till next winter when I have more than enough money and have all the parts I want in a final set list. but this time I'm gonna build a spare motor so I still have the car to drive.

[JSPERFORMANCE]

:scratch:

[WildBillyT]

My opinion (again)

If you are planning on procharging a 600hp small block you are probably closing in on aftermarket block territory.

That said, if I were you I'd built up a 454 small block using a World aftermarket block. Screw the procharger, and you can cam the balls off of it without worrying about sacrificing too much drivability.

[transamkid]

Just for fun I stuck these specs into DD2000 (with an 850cfm carb).....

Peak HP: 421 @ 6,000 rpm
Peak TQ: 422 @ 4,500 rpm

Just swapping to a single plane intake from the dual plane....

Peak HP: 454 @ 6,000 rpm
Peak TQ: 438 @ 5,000 rpm

BTW, those heads with that rotating assembly puts you at 9.9:1 compression.

- Justin

thats the zz383 territory there, except i have 460ft lbs of torque :lol:

[Mike]

sooo bubba, your a "tire tech" and by next winter you will have enough money to finish the v6 car and build a "600 na hp streetable monster" for your other car......... wtf do you you put tires on, the space shuttles?

[bubba428]

sooo bubba, your a "tire tech" and by next winter you will have enough money to finish the v6 car and build a "600 na hp streetable monster" for your other car......... wtf do you you put tires on, the space shuttles?

no...but I make enough money to pay the couple bills I have, and still have play money. That and I'm taking a 2nd job with a construction company in the spring when they start hiring again.

[98tadriver]

To make a 383 stroker put out 600 N/A HP. As son as the '94 is drivable I'm building something real nasty for the '86

so you're saying you will never do the 383 build ? :lol:

and even if you did manage those, say bye byes to the drivetrain, as it would not hold up to the hp. you will not get traction, and you will break everything that's behind the motor, so theres thousands more to spend.

scrap the V6, save up your money and get a 4th gen V8 car and run 12s. some of them have T56's too

[BonzoHansen]

You goals are easier with an LS based motor – and a lot more cash.

[alamantia]

So.. you want to build a 600hp engine for a 20 year old beat car? I normally stay out of this stuff but take it from someone who just bought a house and wishes he had all the money back that he spent on car parts, beer.... dont

if your going to even consider something like that, look into a crate 434 or something already built so your not waisting tons of time and money building, if you want to get raked over the coals you can go to shafirof or a compeditor, http://www.ultrastreet.net/434_classic.asp best of luck tho. Just my $0.02

[1QWIKBIRD]

no...but I make enough money to pay the couple bills I have, and still have play money. That and I'm taking a 2nd job with a construction company in the spring when they start hiring again.

go here

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/chevrolet/smallblock/0503em_small_block_engine_build/index.html

and here

http://www.coloradodragracing.com/showthread.php?t=590

The difference between 525/550 hp levels and 600 hp levels is dramatic both in equipment and in price. That's why you don't see 383 crate engines much past the 500hp mark for the most part. You are really getting into a niche type of market and a custom built entry level race engine. Especially if you are going pump gas NA.

A 383 that makes and honest 600hp at the crank is making 1.57 hp per cubic inch. That would require carefully selected parts (heads, cam, compression, carb) that would likely be less that optimal with the assisted breathing you speak of down the road. You need to do more reading and homework and figure out what you really want, otherwise you will compromise your goals, waste money (can always make more) and time (so precious).

[bubba428]

go here

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/chevrolet/smallblock/0503em_small_block_engine_build/index.html

and here

http://www.coloradodragracing.com/showthread.php?t=590

The difference between 525/550 hp levels and 600 hp levels is dramatic both in equipment and in price. That's why you don't see 383 crate engines much past the 500hp mark for the most part. You are really getting into a niche type of market and a custom built entry level race engine. Especially if you are going pump gas NA.

A 383 that makes and honest 600hp at the crank is making 1.57 hp per cubic inch. That would require carefully selected parts (heads, cam, compression, carb) that would likely be less that optimal with the assisted breathing you speak of down the road. You need to do more reading and homework and figure out what you really want, otherwise you will compromise your goals, waste money (can always make more) and time (so precious).

Thank you...thats all I was trying to get. I do plan on doing a whole lot more research while I set aside funds to get this car in racing shape.

[98tadriver]

heads/cam LS1 + N20 = 600hp. and thats only a 346ci motor

[bubba428]

neads/cam LS1 + N20 = 600hp. and thats only a 346ci motor

well thats cause the ignition system and the Ls1 have a very good bore/stroke combo

[BonzoHansen]

well thats cause the ignition system and the Ls1 have a very good bore/stroke combo

You goals are easier with an LS based motor – and a lot more cash.


I just wanted to say that again. If you are starting from scratch, it is the best way to go to get to your goals.

[bubba428]

I just wanted to say that again. If you are starting from scratch, it is the best way to go to get to your goals.

yes it is...but I wanna go classic smallblock for some reason. I can't explain it. I guess If I wanted an LSx I would just get a whole car. Maybe one day when LSx 's are out dated I might :lol:

[1QWIKBIRD]

well thats cause the ignition system and the Ls1 have a very good bore/stroke combo

I think it has less to do with bore/stroke and ignition as it does with cylinder head technology. LS based motors have 15 deg. heads versus old school 23 degree heads. 15 deg. heads on a SBC are super ultra race bred type heads, think nascar, think world of outlaws on alcohol.....Even 18 degrees stuff, while now is kinda common, but even that was once only for the elite.

here's a link to flow sheets for lots of different aftermarket heads most are 23 degrees units:

http://www.purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/heads1.html


Heres a link to brodix 15 degree heads....look at the difference in flow potential:

http://www.hekimianracing.com/brodix.htm#B12

Now compare the flow numbers of the LS1 units in the first link to the brodix 15 degree flow numbers......see the similarity????


Its in the heads more than anything.

Chris

[bubba428]

So based on the info in the 1st link do you think It would be better to go with the GM fast burn heads. They're numbers are also similar to the LS1 heads. I saw summit has them for 675 per head, and they're aluminum. I mean I could always get a P&P job on them to boost that up a bit but is that not a better start?

[Tru2Chevy]

So based on the info in the 1st link do you think It would be better to go with the GM fast burn heads. They're numbers are also similar to the LS1 heads. I saw summit has them for 675 per head, and they're aluminum. I mean I could always get a P&P job on them to boost that up a bit but is that not a better start?

No, the fastburn heads don't do much better on that combo, i tried them too....

- Justin

[SteveR]

are you looking for consistency? Any street time? What else are you doing to the car?

If you're building a race motor ,then do it right, unless you want to blow it up and try again. If it's going to be n/a, then build a solid n/a motor. If you want a power adder. then build it that way. You really shouldn't build a high compression n/a motor, then add a supercharger to it. Something about that idea leads me to think there'll be fireworks before too long. No matter what you do, DON'T build your motor using a Summit catalog. If it's going to be a race motor, use high quality race parts. And don't be an amateur and randomly pick some cam out of a book, send the motor specs to the pros at Crower and have them custom grind one for you FOR THAT MOTOR!

[1QWIKBIRD]

So based on the info in the 1st link do you think It would be better to go with the GM fast burn heads. They're numbers are also similar to the LS1 heads. I saw summit has them for 675 per head, and they're aluminum. I mean I could always get a P&P job on them to boost that up a bit but is that not a better start?

You need to talk to a serious engine builder and I think there are a few on this list. A 600hp 383sbc pump gas n/a is no run of the mill engine. You need serious cylinder heads, valvetrain, induction and a bottom end to withstand serious RPM. I am guessing 6800-7200 power peak (maybe more) and capable of turning 7500-7800?? Don't get totally hung up on flow numbers, you need the entire combo, but head flow will be important.

Talk to a pro....Don't try a piece this thing together using a Jegs or Summit Catalog or any other catalog for that matter. Have a nice long discussion with a pro, answer the questions, know your budget, know your tolerance levels. Know that the custom built carb for this engine will be about a $1000. Know that a stock t56 won't last long with sticky tires at the track. Know that the fuel system for this motor could be pretty expensive $1000? A solid roller valvetrain will be $1000 at least....

Have you ever seen or driven or been in a car that has an honest 600 hp N/A motor? A small block? Not a 540 inch BBC, Not 450hp crate 383, not 500 hp 406, but 600 hp 383...not on spray.....not with boost, not at 13 to 1 compression, but good old fashioned crack the throttle and let her rip 600 hp on pump gas? I haven't, but would love to go for a ride in one....

600hp at the crank in a 3200lb car is a mid 10 second ride......at least

There is a sign on the wall in a friends shop and it reads something to this effect:

Pick any two of the following three things:
1. Fast Car
2. Cheap Price
3. Good Work

Because

A fast car with good work don't come cheap.

A fast car at a cheap price won't stay together long

A car with good work and cheap price isn't fast.


Do your homework.....

[bubba428]

Thank you...thats all I was trying to get. I do plan on doing a whole lot more research while I set aside funds to get this car in racing shape.

I most likely won't touch anything till next winter when I have more than enough money and have all the parts I want in a final set list.

how many times do I have to repeat myself? you keep saying "do your homework" WTF do you think I'm doing. I'm asking a question to try to get ideas and advice on how to go about it.

[1QWIKBIRD]

So based on the info in the 1st link do you think It would be better to go with the GM fast burn heads. They're numbers are also similar to the LS1 heads. I saw summit has them for 675 per head, and they're aluminum. I mean I could always get a P&P job on them to boost that up a bit but is that not a better start?

how many times do I have to repeat myself? you keep saying "do your homework" WTF do you think I'm doing. I'm asking a question to try to get ideas and advice on how to go about it.


When you suggest to use GM fast burn heads on a 383 to make 600 hp, that is not doing homework. When you then mention you can get them for 675 in summit that is a clear indication that you do not have the means to support your desires. Not taking shots at you, just making an observation.

Here is something I found real quick, I don't know these guys or anything just for some quick numbers:

http://www.cmengines.com/Engines/StreetStripEngines/tabid/95/Default.aspx

Notice the 383 is not offered above 500 hp.

Notice the 434 is used beyond that point, because the cubes make it easier to make the power. This was suggested by others. The 434 comes with a "new" block, meaning aftermarket, this was suggested by others. And you are still short of 600hp and that is at 11 to 1.....the ragged edge of pump gas for a carbed engine, again mentioned previously in this thread.

http://www.rocketindustries.com.au/search.php?menu=Crate+Engines&brand=World

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0307_454_small_block_crate_engine/index.html

These guys bypass the 383 altogether and if you want 600 hp they got it, but it takes 454 cubes of small block (again suggest by others) and that is a 10k motor.

here's your 383 with an easy 600 hp, but its blow thru carb.......

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/tech/engines_drivetrain/complete_builds/0610ch_gm_zz383_crate_engine_dyno_test/index.html That combo ain't cheap......right arount 10k....

So when I suggest you do homework, I mean do some digging. Put down the Summit and Jegs rags. See what other guys have done to build a similiar engine and what I think you will find is that its a tough nut to crack if you stick to your current parameters.

Chris

[bubba428]

When you suggest to use GM fast burn heads on a 383 to make 600 hp, that is not doing homework. When you then mention you can get them for 675 in summit that is a clear indication that you do not have the means to support your desires. Not taking shots at you, just making an observation.

Here is something I found real quick, I don't know these guys or anything just for some quick numbers:

http://www.cmengines.com/Engines/StreetStripEngines/tabid/95/Default.aspx

Notice the 383 is not offered above 500 hp.

Notice the 434 is used beyond that point, because the cubes make it easier to make the power. This was suggested by others. The 434 comes with a "new" block, meaning aftermarket, this was suggested by others. And you are still short of 600hp and that is at 11 to 1.....the ragged edge of pump gas for a carbed engine, again mentioned previously in this thread.

http://www.rocketindustries.com.au/search.php?menu=Crate+Engines&brand=World

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0307_454_small_block_crate_engine/index.html

These guys bypass the 383 altogether and if you want 600 hp they got it, but it takes 454 cubes of small block (again suggest by others) and that is a 10k motor.

here's your 383 with an easy 600 hp, but its blow thru carb.......

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/tech/engines_drivetrain/complete_builds/0610ch_gm_zz383_crate_engine_dyno_test/index.html That combo ain't cheap......right arount 10k....

So when I suggest you do homework, I mean do some digging. Put down the Summit and Jegs rags. See what other guys have done to build a similiar engine and what I think you will find is that its a tough nut to crack if you stick to your current parameters.

Chris

so what your saying is asking around on here as a start doesn't count as research. I said that they where possibly better, being as you said to look at the flow numbers.

[SteveR]

Asking around is a good start. It might keep you from making some mistakes. The first thing to do is stop looking at the catalogs. That Eagle rotating assembly MIGHT last up to 450hp before it explodes. Those heads wont do it. Dont look at cams based on what numbers you THINK might be good. Ask bracket racers what they use. Talk to guys that have been building these motors for a while. If you want the motor to be done right, everything that goes into it must be complimentary to one another. intake to your heads to your rpm band to your bore x stroke to your CR to your vehicle weight to your rear. Randomly slapping it together will equal a car that wont run its number, if at all, and definitely inconsistently. And thats if it doesnt blow up. Putting together a 600hp small block isnt cheap, and the example 1QWIKBIRD had is really good;

"There is a sign on the wall in a friends shop and it reads something to this effect:

Pick any two of the following three things:
1. Fast Car
2. Cheap Price
3. Good Work

Because

A fast car with good work don't come cheap.

A fast car at a cheap price won't stay together long

A car with good work and cheap price isn't fast."

[unstable bob gable]

how many times do I have to repeat myself?

"One MILLION times!"
http://arbyte.us/blog_archive/2005/11/drevil_million_dollars.jpg

[unstable bob gable]

I'd consider doing a big block if you were starting from scratch. They ain't a bad fit in a 3rd gen, and a 600 HP big block can be made w/o having to work it all that hard. Plus you get that big block TORK!!!

[bubba428]

ok...Well with the dart pro 1 platinum heads with the next size smaller valves than the ones I wanted wanted Superchevy had a 383 make 512hp@5500 rpm. http://www.superchevy.com/technical/engines_drivetrain/cams_heads_valvetrain/sucp_0706_dart_head_wet_flow_testing/photo_18.html
found the article online
http://www.superchevy.com/technical/engines_drivetrain/cams_heads_valvetrain/sucp_0706_dart_head_wet_flow_testing/bench_test_results.html

thats with a single plane intake and an of the shelf carb. I think 383s are more than easily capable of what I want. I think its more a matter of Its easier to build a high number motor with more cubes, and with the ability to get big block cubes in a small block package just seals the deal really.

[BonzoHansen]

Here you go, $15k. Now add another $10k-$15k to get everything caught up.

We just finished calibrating our LS3 427ci crate engine and were able to make a power pull on the dyno. This is a LS3 based package that we are now offering for $14,999. It is available from Scoggin-Dickey Parts Center and will be displayed in their booth at the upcoming PRI Show in Orlando, FL. This package was designed to be daily driven and still make big power on either 87 or 93 octane fuel for when it goes to the track. It comes fully controlled and calibrated with our M-90 ECM and wiring harness. It is a COMPLETE ready to run package from intake to oil pan and should be a big hit with the conversion and swap guys as well as those who are looking to run a programmable stand alone ECM. Dyno data is shown below.

Components:
Complete Blueprinted 427ci LS3
11:1 Compression Ratio
4.070” Bore Diamond Pistons
4.100” Stroke Callies Crank w/ACL Bearings
6.125” Compstar Rods w/ACL Bearings
GMPP LS3/L92 CNC Cylinder Heads
Cometic Head Gaskets
ARP Head Bolts
ARP Main Studs
Mast Motorsports Spec. LS3/LS7 Camshaft
Manley Pushrods
Upgraded Valvesprings
GMPP L76 Intake w/LS7 Injectors
90mm Drive-By-Wire Throttle
GM Drive-By-Wire Foot Pedal
Mast Motorsports 8 Layer Air Filter w/Integrated IAT Sensor
GM Smart Coils, Spark Plugs, and Spark Plug Wires
All Engine Sensors (Including Oil Temperature)
Water Pump
Oil Pan
Oil Filter
Starter
Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil

Electronics:
M-90 ECM with Diagnostic Software (Calibration Software Available)
ECM Communication Cable
Engine Wiring Harness
Dash Control Harness
MAP/IAT Harness
Transmission Harness for GM VSS
Bosch Narrow Band O2 Sensor (NTK Wideband O2 available for an additional $299)
O2 Sensor Harness
Fuel Pump Control Harness
Electric Fan Control Harness
Mast Motorsports Integrated Fuse Block

Capabilities:
Drive-By Wire Throttle
Wideband Knock Control
Adaptive Spark Control
Closed Loop Fuel Pressure Correction
Throttle Based 2-Step Rev Limiter
Push Button Fast Idle Option
Integrated Gauge Drivers
CAN Gauge Capabilities
Fully Integrated Fuel Pump Control
Fully Integrated Electric Fan Control
Vintage Air A/C Control

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb186/MastMotorsports/L92_427_CNC_V3.jpg

Shaun
www.mastmotorsports.com (http://www.mastmotorsports.com)

My intial estimates might prove low....
I'm gonna guess $15k-$25k (or more) to do it right (suspension, trans, etc.).

[SteveR]

Whats important about that article is that there is NO information as to what is in that motor. They could be using a $10k short block for all we know. Start building the motor in your head and research each part as you go along. Start with where the build starts, the block. Find that then move to the crank (manufacturer you want, not the actual crank), then rods, pistons, establish your CR, figure out your vehicles final weight minus engine +driver, what trans you want, how you want it to launch, where your shift points will be, where in the rpm band you want it to sit, then you can start focusing in on the specifics. Cam specs, rod length, bore, stroke, intake, flow numbers, etc. Think about the cam and heads later. Start with the basics.

[NJSPEEDER]

bubba, don't worry about what you combo is yet. you have an idea and a goal, that is a good start. the next step is to look into getting the money together and working on a budget for your goal.
look at what parts capable of supporting your goal cost and come up with a ball park figure of how much you need. once you know the amount you need and how long it will take you to raise it, you can start planning the combo more specifically and worry about which actual part numbers you are going to want to buy.
600hp on pump gas is doable, but it is going to cost. so take your time planning and make sure you get all the right parts and have the right approach going in. you don't want to have to buy a whole bunch of expensive stuff multiple times because you weren't prepared going into the situation.

[unstable bob gable]

http://www.theengineshop.com/prods_pages/108052.htm

Nice and easy 600+ hp...

[SteveR]

Another thing to keep in mind is that 600hp on a n/a small block is pushing the limits using pump gas and no power adder and keeping it under a ridiculous number cost wise. The very loose general rule is 2hp per cubic inch on a big block n/a all out race motor. Thats pushing the limits. NHRA Pro Stock motors are 500ci and make about 1300hp, but I don't think a $150,000 motor is in any of our budgets. Small block motors are a lot harder, and are roughly 1.6hp per CI. Thats 612hp on a 383, so its doable, but that'll cost you a lot.

[bubba428]

Our 383 T&L test engine, equipped with a Comp Cams single pattern 288 Xtreme Energy flat-tappet hydraulic cam and an Edelbrock Performer Air Gap intake

thats from page 3. that cam is a custom grind that can be orderer through comp over the phone, and that Intake is a run of the mill dual plane. thats for you steve, and as far as the short block.4K Found T&Ls site from the article. http://www.tandlengines.com/chevy_small_block_aluminum1.html#Anchor-38-52725

And NJSPEEDER, I plan on taking a VERY long hard look into every part. I'm definitely not just gonna slap it together and hope. I want to run 11:1 compression so I need to figure out what pistons to use. I really like the fact that they're motor made 500hp in a reasonable RPM range. although I'm going to use the SBC beehive springs for it to boost up my RPM range before float. But I'll say it again I'M NOT STARTING ANYTHING UNTILL NEXT WINTER!!!

[bubba428]

The block i decide to use is going to be gone over VERY VERY care fully. I'm actually going to take it to the same guy that does engine work for some body I know. And he runs his car in the 8.50 bracket all year. It even held up to 3 nitrous backfires. (BTW this is a full built 68 camaro)

[1QWIKBIRD]

bubba, don't worry about what you combo is yet. you have an idea and a goal, that is a good start. the next step is to look into getting the money together and working on a budget for your goal.
look at what parts capable of supporting your goal cost and come up with a ball park figure of how much you need. once you know the amount you need and how long it will take you to raise it, you can start planning the combo more specifically and worry about which actual part numbers you are going to want to buy.
600hp on pump gas is doable, but it is going to cost. so take your time planning and make sure you get all the right parts and have the right approach going in. you don't want to have to buy a whole bunch of expensive stuff multiple times because you weren't prepared going into the situation.

^^^^best advice yet. Figure out your allowable budget, then start making your moves. Best of luck to ya. Should be one helluva motor when you get completed.

Chris

[bubba428]

I'M NOT STARTING ANYTHING UNTILL NEXT WINTER!!!

:horse:

[unstable bob gable]

I'M NOT STARTING ANYTHING UNTILL NEXT WINTER!!!

So, when ya planning on getting started on this puppy? :mrgreen:

[SteveR]

:lol:

[bubba428]

So, when ya planning on getting started on this puppy? :mrgreen:

As soon as my pocket gets full enough

[unstable bob gable]

As soon as my pocket gets full enough

I have some rocks and dirt you can use to fill yer pockets...

[bubba428]

AWESOME...maybe I should just sell crack

[1QWIKBIRD]

thats from page 3. that cam is a custom grind that can be orderer through comp over the phone, and that Intake is a run of the mill dual plane. thats for you steve, and as far as the short block.4K Found T&Ls site from the article. http://www.tandlengines.com/chevy_small_block_aluminum1.html#Anchor-38-52725

And NJSPEEDER, I plan on taking a VERY long hard look into every part. I'm definitely not just gonna slap it together and hope. I want to run 11:1 compression so I need to figure out what pistons to use. I really like the fact that they're motor made 500hp in a reasonable RPM range. although I'm going to use the SBC beehive springs for it to boost up my RPM range before float. But I'll say it again I'M NOT STARTING ANYTHING UNTILL NEXT WINTER!!!


Maybe I am sounding too harsh. If so I am sorry. All I am really trying to impart to you is that 500hp 383's are everywhere and I think they are on sale at Wal-Mart right now. 600hp 383's are much tougher to find, espicially NA and on pump gas. I realize its only another 100 hp, but the horsepower to money relationship is exponential. As you continue on your quest you will undoubtedly uncover the numerous hidden costs on such a motor. There can be no second rate parts. I doubt you will find beehive valve springs, dual plane air gap intakes, flat tappet cams (hyd. or mech.) or the like in the final recipe.

I would expect to see a forged bottom end inside a studded 4-bolt block with a good set of aftermarket rods, top notch machine work, a full roller valvetrain (likely to be solid roller) double springs with Ti retainers, possibly an entry level shaft mount rocker setup, heads that flow 300 cfm with single plane intake to match. I wouldn't dare guess as to the cam specs??? Holley HP series carb 850cfm(max power??) 750cfm (better street manners???), MSD lighting the fire. 1-7/8ths primary headers to a 3-1/2 collector for starters??? Lots of attention paid to the combustion chamber size, piston type, quench area to control detonation. That's my guess.

I look forward to next winter and the completion of your project, because when you get this beast together I'd be very interested in the final results. If you can pull this off without breaking the bank I think you'd have a lot of people's attention, including mine.


Chris

[Mike]

if your not starting till next winter, and dont like anyones advice because you know everything, why did you ask?

[unstable bob gable]

AWESOME...maybe I should just sell crack

I'd buy some from ya...:mrgreen:

[WildBillyT]

1QWIKBIRD is really talking a lot of sense here, Bubba.

I was very involved in the building of my brother's two engines. One was a 383SB, the other a 427BB. Both engines were professionally built and dyno'd on the same engine dyno during the same week and atmospheric conditions. Here's the rundown.

The 383 is/was a 9.7 compression motor. Comp 292H cam, fully ported and polished fuelie heads (2.02/1.60 valves), KB hyper pistons on an Eagle rotating assembly. Crower 1.6 roller rockers, ported and matched Air Gap intake, 750 holley. It made 430hp and 470 lb-ft, ran excellent on pump gas and could probably be done up for 5-6 grand.

The 427 is a 12.5 compression motor. I picked out the cam, it's a Crane solid roller with .714/.714 lift (not sure of the duration). GM 049 heads pocket ported with 2.19/1.88 valves, JE custom pistons on an Eagle rotating assembly. GM/Crane 1.8 roller rockers, Victor Jr intake, 830 Race Demon RS. It made 621hp and 555 lb-ft. This costs about 10 grand. Runs on pump gas, though we use GT100 to be safe. Mild enough to be driven on the street if it wasn't so loud through race bullets.

My point is this. The aforementioned 427 looks like what you want to do with an N/A 383. That will be tough to do considering you want to run fewer cubes, with less compression, a smaller cam, and (chances are) heads that have more turbulence and may not flow as well without work. To get to that power you won't just be paying for parts but also paying for labor to port, polish, smooth, flow, etc. Building a 383 that is around 500hp will be a lot easier of a goal to attain. The 383 above could probably do that with a better cam and more compression.

I think I speak for more than just myself when I say that I want you to build a kick *** motor that you will be happy with, and I DO NOT want to see you with a pile of parts and empty pockets. That happens all the time. Example: If you go solid roller on the street, you are looking at Isky Red Zone or Crower HIPPO lifters if you want them to last for very long. Non HIPPO lifters tend to need replacement quickly since they aren't lubricated as well. Just the lifters will cost around $400. If you don't plan for that, you may end up being able to afford only part of your valvetrain.

[bubba428]

Yea...I plan on making a few phone calls and trying to figure out a few things in the next few weeks. I gotta keep this to the wayside though...at least until i get my camaro rolling again

[98tadriver]

yes it is...but I wanna go classic smallblock for some reason. I can't explain it. I guess If I wanted an LSx I would just get a whole car. Maybe one day when LSx 's are out dated I might :lol:

cant explain it huh? i can. start from scratch, go on LS1tech or EBAY and you can find a LS1/ A4 or M6 combo for $3,000+ and there is no explanantion why LS1s are sick. they just are.

[1QWIKBIRD]

I think I speak for more than just myself when I say that I want you to build a kick *** motor that you will be happy with, and I DO NOT want to see you with a pile of parts and empty pockets. That happens all the time. Example:

Couldn't say it better...

Chris

[bubba428]

yea but then i have to deal with the computer

[Tru2Chevy]

yea but then i have to deal with the computer

You can slap a different intake and a carb on it, while still capitalizing on the better design and more bulletproof bottom ends. But a built LSx longblock will cost more than a built Gen I longblock.

- Justin

[BonzoHansen]

You say that like it is a bad thing.

[SteveR]

yea but then i have to deal with the computer

Edelbrock makes a carb intake for the LS-1.

[98tadriver]

yea but then i have to deal with the computer

no, you dont have to deal with the computer. take it to somebody and get it dyno tuned. this way you know what kind of power youre making. TECHNOLOGY FTMFW! youll be able to get decent gas mileage and stilll run 11s. for example- me untuned, crappy trans etc etc. im only putting down 342/362 to the wheels, running 11s and getting 18city/23highway mpg. who knows what the 150 wet shot will drop my times to... by the time you put this 600hp engine together, it wont even be worth it to drive because gas will cost you $4.00/gallon, if not more if u need to run race gas to bring the octane up

[bubba428]

no, you don't have to deal with the computer. take it to somebody and get it dyno tuned. this way you know what kind of power you're making. TECHNOLOGY FTMFW! you'll be able to get decent gas mileage and still run 11s. for example- me untuned, crappy trans etc etc. im only putting down 342/362 to the wheels, running 11s and getting 18city/23highway mpg. who knows what the 150 wet shot will drop my times to... by the time you put this 600hp engine together, it wont even be worth it to drive because gas will cost you $4.00/gallon, if not more if u need to run race gas to bring the octane up

Yea but I'm not worried about gas mileage, thats what I have the V6 for(and why I'm not starting till its done)

[JerzLT1]

easier goal is to focus on a 1/4 mile # and try to get there rather then a h/p number. you can put down 600 to the wheels and get beat by someone pushing 500 if your car isnt prepped right. unless your just going for bragging rights.. which is ghey

[SteveR]

easier goal is to focus on a 1/4 mile # and try to get there rather then a h/p number. you can put down 600 to the wheels and get beat by someone pushing 500 if your car isnt prepped right. unless your just going for bragging rights.. which is ghey

exactly.

[unstable bob gable]

BUBBA! BUBBA!
HE'S DA MAN!
IF HE CAN'T GET 600 HP,
NO ONE CAN!

BRICKA! BRACKA!
FIRECRACKA!
SIS! BOOM! BAH!
600 HP! 600 HP!
RAH! RAH! RAH!

[Blacdout96]

Bubba, ill be brief, and thruthful on this part. your young, youve only witness about 220-250hp in your life. first off, for someone who hasent driven 600hp realize this, thats alot of hp to try to control, you may think you can handle it, but there are many people out there who thought the same thing and were wrong, look at hulks so with that Supra. you need to slowely add things onto your car, and get adjusted to the improvement overtime so by the time you will get even at 425hp youll be more comfortable and not make more mistakes. anybody says they can drive a car, but its when you actually know how to counter act the tendencies of the car when it has such an amount of power such as that. Secondly, do you remember the dealings wiht your truck when you tried to burnout infront of Advance Auto Parts and you snapped your U-joints? well your truck was 20+ years old and only had maybe 210 hp, so think of your car being 20+ years old, having 3 times the amount of power going to everything, everything will need to be replaced to handle something like that. So after you spend countless amounts of money on your engine, now you gotta buy a Transmission and a stall converter to withstand that, a strong enough driveshaft, and either a 12 bolt or a 9 bolt with comes over 1500-2000 dollars alone depending on which rear you want. then the gears, and then you gotta upgrade the supsension, and the body has to be stiffen up to take the twisting of the forces, also probably a rollcage, and a special fuel system. Your young, and the moneys not coming in fast enough to be able to buy all that and be able to maintain a car such as that. the fuel alone would have you gasping for air for how much it would be. plus you say you dont want to open the fron twice, well if your goign N/A then S/C, then you gotta open the whole engine up twice, stick with what you want and go with it. also most of the time you wont see 383's being sold wiht no more then 425-500 hp, because it begines to reach its limit for the budget builder, now your looking at NASCAR products needed, and research so the parts work correctly, and everything flows right. its too much money to put in that thing. if you really want to do anyhting, which I kno anybody who gives you this advice you ignore, just like always when I tell you things, you tend to have selective hearing, so I will tell you the best options for the money in your pocket that you have, and for what your car can handle at the moment. either go on eBay, get a set of 2.02 and 1.60 heads that have already been worked on that come off of modified cars and such, pick those up for around 300-500 bucks a pair, which is a great deal, then get a nice cam and intake, and drive around with that until you get used to it and you have more money, then go from there. Or option 2, have your spare block sent out, and have it decked and such and buy the Holley systemax set which is 3000 bucks, which isnt bad, and go from there. you wont attain the 425 they say without some decent work done to the block, so you might be around 375-400 hp, and try it, you might say whoa thats enough for me right there, or you might want more, but gradually ween yourself into high horsepower, cause it gets very unforgiving when in the 500+ hp catagory, hell some peopel cant even handle 300+hp. so if theres any good advice that has been said on this thread, buy the damn holley system and go form there.

[deadtrend1]

Are there any cliffnotes to the post above. I can't read all that at this hour :lol:

[bubba428]

wow jeff way to repeat what the last 4 pages say...STFU.

[Blacdout96]

I know, but im giving you your options that fit your budget, not $1000 valve train ideas. just buy the holley and be happy.

[bubba428]

If you look back a few threads I was going to do that in the 1st place, but after i looked around its really not the best option. If I do anything like that it will be the parts I listed only with a different cam. Still gonna put the TKO and 12 bolt in it. BUT after doing some work under the car yesterday. I might not even use it. the floor pans are damn near gone both rear quarters are rotted away the panhard mounts are severely rusted, the suspension needs to be redone, and all the bushings are shot. So either I'll do a resto on it or I'll pull the drive train and buy a roller.

[Blacdout96]

...a third gen resto is not worth it...youll end up spending enough money to by 4 3rd gens, or for a nice 4th gen V8. just junk the whole thing except the carb and intake.

[WayFast84]

wow jeff way to repeat what the last 4 pages say...STFU.

hes saying it for your benefit. so you stfu.

[Blacdout96]

hes saying it for your benefit. so you stfu.

Thank you wayfast, see even wayfast has common sense and would listen to advice when given.

I kno anybody who gives you this advice you ignore, just like always when I tell you things, you tend to have selective hearing, so I will tell you the best options for the money in your pocket that you have, and for what your car can handle at the moment.

and thats my point exactly, everyone is saying the same thing, im just joining in, cause eventually this will build up enough for you to might go, hey I think they are giving me good advice, maybe I should use it.

[98tadriver]

V8 in the 4th gen, one project, done and over with.

[WayFast84]

Bubba, go pick up a spring issue of hot rod, they have the scoop of how to build a 615 hp 383, N/A! Sounds like what your looking for, parts and info. The total build was around 9 grand.

[bubba428]

I seen that...stol...errr, purchased a copy from advance auto

[DaSkinnyGuy]

After reading all this I never once saw the concern about what you are going to do with the rest of the car, Suspension, rear end, BRAKES ( you need those to stop once you get going ) Nice meaty tires, A roll cage for your safety if you plan on letting 600 +hp rip down the drag. I think you best bet is to ask CALL911 every single thing he has done to his 383 Procharged 614hp motor. Right there is the man that will tell you how he set his car up and how much he spent. Once you build a N/A motor you are going to want that procharger and you will be **** out of luck because your motor will have to much compression. Get the same setup as CALL911 and you will have a good car. I love that setup just watch the video of his car in the Multi media section once you hear that cam you will wet your pants and no one will have to post in this thread again because you will have your answer. He couldnt have made that movie at a better time.

I came back to edit this to make this easier so you dont get lost looking for the video and if click CALL911 on streetfire in blue under the video he has the same movie without the music so you can really hear the car.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/fc049906-a1ee-44d0-9331-99fa01642d75.htm

[bubba428]

I don't want to go with a procharger...I want it to stay N/A. NOW this is Engine/power/tuning...If I didn't already know what i wanted to do to the chassis, there would be a post there too.

[Mike]

yawn, this isnt a bench racing forum, if peoples opinions bother you stop asking questions, build what you want, and prove them wrong

[bubba428]

yawn, this isnt a bench racing forum, if peoples opinions bother you stop asking questions, build what you want, and prove them wrong

the internet sucks because 90% of the meaning of what I say is in how I say it, not what I say. peoples opinions don't bother me at all. Its when I get "just do something else" or "thats stupid" or respond with something unrelated. I got a lot of very useful information from a few members which I appreciate very much. I've weighed some options and I'm going to continue to research what I can. I had no intentions of what it turned into, nor did I want the "bench racing". I got the info I wanted, there seems to be NO useful posts in the last month. This thread has out lasted its worth and needs to be locked.

[deadtrend1]

....This thread has out lasted its worth and needs to be locked.

yep .. try some of this then :)

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r34/deadtrend1/PAAPT42.jpg

[WildBillyT]

the internet sucks because 90% of the meaning of what I say is in how I say it, not what I say. peoples opinions don't bother me at all. Its when I get "just do something else" or "thats stupid" or respond with something unrelated. I got a lot of very useful information from a few members which I appreciate very much. I've weighed some options and I'm going to continue to research what I can. I had no intentions of what it turned into, nor did I want the "bench racing". I got the info I wanted, there seems to be NO useful posts in the last month. This thread has out lasted its worth and needs to be locked.

Bubba, I can lock it or I can go through and clean out some of the posts for you. Let me know.