NJ Bill Intro'd for Street Racing

[Untamed]

Senate Transportation Meeting 1:00 PM
Committee Room 10, 3rd Floor, State House Annex, Trenton, NJ

MONDAY, DECEMBER 3, 2007 (continued)


http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills/S3000/2842_I1.HTM (http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills/S3000/2842_I1.HTM)

STATEMENT

This bill would upgrade the penalties for drag racing. Under current law, a person who is convicted of operating a motor vehicle on a public highway in a race with another motor vehicle, or to make a speed record, is fined for a first offense at least $25, but not more than $100. For a second offense, the fine is at least $100, but not more than $200, a term of imprisonment of up to 90 days, or both.
Under the bill, drag racing would be an offense punishable by up to a year imprisonment, but the offender would be required to serve a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of 180 days during which he or she would be ineligible for parole. The bill also increases the fines imposed to between $500 and $1,000 for a first offense, and to between $1,000 and $2,000 for a second or subsequent offense.

[Jersey_TA]

Wow, it's a good thing I don't do that anymore.

[zuuhlsT/A]

That is harsh man.... I hope alotta ricers get nailed!!!!!:mrgreen:

[DaSkinnyGuy]

That is harsh man.... I hope alotta ricers get nailed!!!!!:mrgreen:

They all ready get nailed by those V8's so ricers FTL no matter what law is passed.

[BonzoHansen]

What the hell does "make a speed record mean" - is that the Ron clause? LOL


Holy crap; "Under the bill, drag racing would be an offense punishable by up to a year imprisonment, but the offender would be required to serve a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of 180 days during which he or she would be ineligible for parole."

What defines 'drag racing'?

[Frosty]

Too harsh IMO.

[Blacdout96]

Too harsh IMO.

Agreed, I think they should just dothe california thing and crush your car, or dothe australian thing and have your car crushed, and then have the video of it crushed put on youtube

[iamsickofitall]

that just means that idiots will be running like mad when cops show up before/during/after a race and many bystanders/pedestrians/motorists will be killed by people risking it to not go to jail for a minimum of 180 days

[maroman88]

yea wayyy to harsh

[bubba428]

If i was caught racing I would run like hell. good thing I don't street race

[//<86TA>\\]

total bs, way to harsh
________
Vaporizer-info.com (http://johan-luis.tumblr.com/)

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

I don't support street racing, but this means that most likely making a fast takeoff can be viewed as drag racing due to the ambiguousness. That's why I think it's a bit too harsh.

[IROCZBeast]

that just means that idiots will be running like mad when cops show up before/during/after a race and many bystanders/pedestrians/motorists will be killed by people risking it to not go to jail for a minimum of 180 days


agreed. many people will now try to run causing a lot of havoc. technically nj law states that police are not a loud to chase vechicles the only circumstance were they can chase I believe is if a felony has occured. but then again we all know how the system works, all an officer really has to say is he tried to hit me with his vechicle and the chase is on.

geuss we'll see what happens if this bill get passed.

[Tru2Chevy]

I think the stiffer penalties are great, but they need to make sure that the term "drag racing" is very clearly defined.

Also, as cbrrmike stated in another thread:

the no chase policy is for when a trooper is parked or going the other direction and a speeder goes by....

If a trooper is attempting to pull you over, As in his light bar is lit, and you decide to take off, they can and will chase you.

the no chase law is also MAINLY for motorcycles, since the outcome would rarely workout in a safe situation for public, rider, and trooper

- Justin

[98tadriver]

What the hell does "make a speed record mean" - is that the Ron clause? LOL


Holy crap; "Under the bill, drag racing would be an offense punishable by up to a year imprisonment, but the offender would be required to serve a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of 180 days during which he or she would be ineligible for parole."

What defines 'drag racing'?

lol!!! what are you talking about? :shifty: i agree with the others, thats a bit tuff!

[98tadriver]

agreed. many people will now try to run causing a lot of havoc. technically nj law states that police are not a loud to chase vechicles the only circumstance were they can chase I believe is if a felony has occured. but then again we all know how the system works, all an officer really has to say is he tried to hit me with his vechicle and the chase is on.

geuss we'll see what happens if this bill get passed.


i was reading online about that before, i think that running from the cops in general is a felony. resisting arrest/eluding an officer it has a few different degrees to it. cant remember off the top of my head but i think 2nd degree is risking the lives of officers/innocent bystanders and 1st would be actually injuring someone or destroying property

[IROCZBeast]

i was reading online about that before, i think that running from the cops in general is a felony. resisting arrest/eluding an officer it has a few different degrees to it. cant remember off the top of my head but i think 2nd degree is risking the lives of officers/innocent bystanders and 1st would be actually injuring someone or destroying property

its possible thats it. I'm gonna bring this up in my criminal justice class and see what information I can pull out of my teacher about the chase laws and this new bill. If he gives me any good info I'll be sure to relay it.

[JL8Jeff]

Yeah, that doesn't look like it's worded very well. You could be pulling out into traffic and hit the gas a little too hard and it could be falsely called 'making a speed run'. They need to clearly define the actual acts.

[SteveR]

If they make it a mandatory jail term, I can see it ending up like car chases in Newark. Too many innocent people will get hurt and killed as the racers try and get away so there would be a no chase clause.

[procamaroz28]

tooo harsh but how can they prove racing it just could happen that 2 cars are speeding on same street unless there like neck and neck and u can hear from a mile away

[NJSPEEDER]

just two cars speeding side by side while accelerating down the same road? lol

i think that it is a good idea to crack down on street racing. prison is a bit of an extreme minimum for a first offense in my opinion, but i do like the increased fines.

they need to come up with a clear cut definition of "drag racing" to apply and they need to make sure that the appropriate related offenses get charged as well.

[Savage_Messiah]

I'm mostly against street racing (yes I've done it, yes i probably will do it again at some point since i have hopefully many many more yers of life ahead of me) but mandatory jail time is BS, because i know how easy it is to fall into the "street racing" category. IIRC, you don't even have to be going above the speed limit to get a street racing ticket... just hve to be is "a contest of speed" which is extremely vague.

[79T/A]

Jail time is indeed a bit too much for a first offense. Higher fines, definitely. I wouldn't object to it being a second or third offense, though. Kind of like DWI. Let's face it: Both involve the risk of someone getting hurt, whether they're in the car or not.

To clear up the degree of crime (We don't technically have felonies in NJ; anything other than disorderly or petty disorderly persons offenses are crimes and are graded in degrees, with 1st degree being the most serious and 4th degree being the least), here's the statute:

2C: 29-2b. RESISTING ARREST; ELUDING OFFICER.

Any person, while operating a motor vehicle on any street or highway in this State who knowingly flees or attempts to elude any police or law enforcement officer after having received any signal from such officer to bring the vehicle to a full stop (The shiny red lights), commits a crime of the third degree, EXCEPT THAT, a person is guilty of a crime of the second degree if the flight or attempt to elude creates a risk of death or injury to any person if the person's conduct involves a violation of Chapter 4 of Title 39 (Motor vehicle code, your moving violations).

In other words, if someone simply refuses to pull over but continues to stop for red traffic lights and obeys the speed limit, they are guilty of a crime of the third degree. If someone refuses to pull over and speeds, passes improperly, disregards every traffic signal and generally breaks just about every moving violation in the book, they are guilty of a crime of the second degree.

The current fines are no less than $25 and no more than $100 for a first offense. It needs to hurt a little more, like $200 to $500, and $500 for a second offense with 30 days of community service and $1000 for the third offense plus no less than $180. Similar to the DWI penalties.

And whatever you do, remember:

39: 4-24: USE OF WHIP
No person shall crack or so use a whip as to annoy, interfere with or endanger a person or excite a horse other than a horse which he is using.
(As long as I was flipping through the book, I thought I'd have some fun.)

[NightRydaSS]

i think this is to crack down on the organized street racing, not the "red light traffic runs". They're tryin to stop the 50 or so ppl who hangout on empty roads from racing.

[IROCZBeast]

in all seriousness though street racing will never be completely stopped. The world of racing motor vehicles started on the streets when it began and most likely if racing ever dies it will die on the streets. I don't street race(anymore at least), but I think I can probably safely say at least 90% if not all us have engaged in a street race at one point or another in our life whether it be from a role with a buddy on the highway or a $1,000 race down at the hole. Everyones done it and people will probably continue to do it.

Street racing is dangerous and shouldn't happen, I agree 100%, but I still don't think these stiffer punishments will keep people from street racing. It'll just make people more likely to try and evade the police.

just my .02 cents.

[79T/A]

Street racing is dangerous and shouldn't happen, I agree 100%, but I still don't think these stiffer punishments will keep people from street racing. It'll just make people more likely to try and evade the police.


People who engage in organized street racing already try to outrun the police. Just ask Sgt. Tommaso Popolizio in Newark who chased that racer...oh, wait..you can't...he's dead (Not making a joke, just illustrating the seriousness of the consequences of street racing). The crotch rocket folk do it routinely; in fact, I'm told by some in those circles that a majority of them run rather than face prosecution. The stiffer penalties obviously don't stop everyone from drunk driving or people wouldn't still be getting arrested for it. You are just as likely to be killed by a street racer as you are by a drunk driver, so should we reduce those fines too? If the change of penalties (Within reason) is a deterrent to at least a percentage of people who street race, or at least makes people think before engaging in such behavior, I'm for it.

A ton of responsibility rests on the police when it comes to pursuits, but the bottom line is this: The police do NOT start the pursuit; the violator does. The police officer has the massive responsibility of ending the pursuit should it become too dangerous. For all of the pursuits you see in the news that result in an innocent bystander getting hurt or killed, there are hundreds you don't read about or see on TV that end because the officer or their supervisors end the pursuit. If they don't end the pursuit when it becomes too dangerous (Residential areas, which is a majority of NJ, school zones, hazardous road conditions, too much speed, etc.) or are ordered by their supervisors, they run the risk of losing everything, starting with their jobs and ending with civil lawsuits.

Yeah, most of us have street raced, I'm not going to pretend I haven't done so once or twice in the past. And I'm really lucky that I didn't get caught and even luckier that I didn't kill anyone, including myself. Had I gotten caught, I'd have been P.O.'d, but it would've been my own fault. And I'd have had to pay. What it comes down to is if someone wants to gamble with their life, and the lives of everyone out on the street, they can go ahead and pay for it if they get caught. You're absolutely right; street racing will probably go on as long as there are streets, but that doesn't mean that the lawmakers should sit back and do nothing about it.

[IROCZBeast]

People who engage in organized street racing already try to outrun the police. Just ask Sgt. Tommaso Popolizio in Newark who chased that racer...oh, wait..you can't...he's dead (Not making a joke, just illustrating the seriousness of the consequences of street racing). The crotch rocket folk do it routinely; in fact, I'm told by some in those circles that a majority of them run rather than face prosecution. The stiffer penalties obviously don't stop everyone from drunk driving or people wouldn't still be getting arrested for it. You are just as likely to be killed by a street racer as you are by a drunk driver, so should we reduce those fines too? If the change of penalties (Within reason) is a deterrent to at least a percentage of people who street race, or at least makes people think before engaging in such behavior, I'm for it.

A ton of responsibility rests on the police when it comes to pursuits, but the bottom line is this: The police do NOT start the pursuit; the violator does. The police officer has the massive responsibility of ending the pursuit should it become too dangerous. For all of the pursuits you see in the news that result in an innocent bystander getting hurt or killed, there are hundreds you don't read about or see on TV that end because the officer or their supervisors end the pursuit. If they don't end the pursuit when it becomes too dangerous (Residential areas, which is a majority of NJ, school zones, hazardous road conditions, too much speed, etc.) or are ordered by their supervisors, they run the risk of losing everything, starting with their jobs and ending with civil lawsuits.

Yeah, most of us have street raced, I'm not going to pretend I haven't done so once or twice in the past. And I'm really lucky that I didn't get caught and even luckier that I didn't kill anyone, including myself. Had I gotten caught, I'd have been P.O.'d, but it would've been my own fault. And I'd have had to pay. What it comes down to is if someone wants to gamble with their life, and the lives of everyone out on the street, they can go ahead and pay for it if they get caught. You're absolutely right; street racing will probably go on as long as there are streets, but that doesn't mean that the lawmakers should sit back and do nothing about it.

The way you talk either A) in law enforcement B) has family/friends in law enforcement or C) trying to enter the law enforcement field.

Just so you know I'm not trying to go against whatever it is you said. I fit into both B and C above. I'm not bashing the law or law enforcement with anything I said. Just stating the clear fact that lets see hmm as the 8th Amendment states "no cruel and unusual punishment". Going to jail for "racing" your car seems a little cruel in my opinion for a first offender.

and if that bill goes through the way its written now then there are going to be a lot of PO'd people when they go to jail for "street racing" or "making a speed record" when they pass grandpa on the right or accelerate out of a traffic light...

p.s.- thousands of bills get introduced but only a few hundred if that many get passed and the ones that do get passed almost always end up getting marked up(means changing a bill for those that don't know) and it'll normally take a while. so I wouldn't get to worried about this yet.

[Teds89IROC]

I agree with most people here that the terms need to be defined. I also agree that they should concentrate more on the groups who race and not individuals who go light to light. Not that I condone one way or the other, but obviously the more people involved the greater the chance of injury/death etc. Which also leads me to something else, how many innocent deaths (innocent bystanders who happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time) occur during the year due to street racing? I'm just curious because we hardly hear of this stuff, maybe 4 or 5 times a year on the news. It just seems like the punishment is way too harsh especially for what they are trying to prevent.

[NightRydaSS]

i really don't think they're talkin about "light to light" ppl, i really think they mean the organized racers; like the groups of ppl who go out for the sole purpose of finding a street to race. I think this also has to do with the fact that it isn't just racing goin on at these areas; drugs, underage drinking, and theft all have a place there (think stolen cars/parts).

[IROCZBeast]

Did a little study on street racing a while back in criminology I have a little book on all of it through the policing point of view heres a link to the website that gives you the run down on somethings, the book I have goes into a little more detail.

You guys might enjoy taking a look at this though, lots of interesting stuff.

http://www.popcenter.org/Problems/problem-street_racing.htm

[IROCZBeast]

I agree with most people here that the terms need to be defined. I also agree that they should concentrate more on the groups who race and not individuals who go light to light. Not that I condone one way or the other, but obviously the more people involved the greater the chance of injury/death etc. Which also leads me to something else, how many innocent deaths (innocent bystanders who happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time) occur during the year due to street racing? I'm just curious because we hardly hear of this stuff, maybe 4 or 5 times a year on the news. It just seems like the punishment is way too harsh especially for what they are trying to prevent.

To answer your question Ted it is estimated that at least 50 people die every year as a result of a street race.

[sinistr]

i know of 3 aboned air strips around here , why can't we race there ???? ohhhh but we can go off roading in the middle of know where and get drunk and thats not a problem

[NightRydaSS]

i know of 3 aboned air strips around here , why can't we race there ???? ohhhh but we can go off roading in the middle of know where and get drunk and thats not a problem

u just said it; "middle of nowhere", the worst thing you might do is hit a tree, a deer, or flip ur truck over. there are no ppl out in those woods. the number of ppl that are there are small, you're not going over 100 mph, there are no drugs deals going down, gang members or stolen properity. I don't kno about the drunk part though, it is still drunk driving which is illegal.

[79T/A]

ohhhh but we can go off roading in the middle of know where and get drunk and thats not a problem


It's not a problem IF YOU DON'T GET CAUGHT, just like street racing. I haven't read up on them, but as someone who goes off road LEGALLY, I know there are some heavy fines out there for wheeling where you're not supposed to. Combine that with possible criminal charges for trespassing and the getting drunk and you could be in a world of hurt.

Just so you know I'm not trying to go against whatever it is you said. I fit into both B and C above. I'm not bashing the law or law enforcement with anything I said. Just stating the clear fact that lets see hmm as the 8th Amendment states "no cruel and unusual punishment". Going to jail for "racing" your car seems a little cruel in my opinion for a first offender.


Yeah, I'm with you on the first offender. Jail IS too harsh the first time, but once someone gets nailed three times, it's time for a harsher penalty.

[Mike]

there is no such thing as MANDATORY jail time, that is terrible wording. you would have a trial, a lawyer and most likely a plea deal before you ever went to jail, new jersey jails are HORRENDOUSLY overcrowded and the prosecutors would probably plea everyone down anyway

[Raist103]

like said before now there will be a lot more people running from the cops "i know if i am goofing off on the street and hit the gas coming off a off ramp to a highway and see a cop turn around i am gone. i will not go to jail for something like that." that is ridiculous because you know all the cops are going to be pricks and try to make a point of the new law for a year or two. total bs. i agree 100% make the fines higher or whatever but jail time and 180days min?

[BonzoHansen]

there is no such thing as MANDATORY jail time, that is terrible wording. you would have a trial, a lawyer and most likely a plea deal before you ever went to jail, new jersey jails are HORRENDOUSLY overcrowded and the prosecutors would probably plea everyone down anyway

Doesn't apply to this law, but Federal Sentencing Guidelines put lots of people in jail for seemingly minor offenses, like pot possession (and I don't mean a truckload). Very dumb. Judges complain they have no leeway.

[maroman88]

for DWI there are very clear laws set, 0.08 or higher and your legally drunk, no if ands or buts. they really have to work on the wording or make some sort of system to prove you were street racing or watever u wanna call it

[chemicalstylez]

Wooo go NJ for outragious punishments. Anytime I "drag race" on the streets aka 295 or the AC expressway, its never planned. I've been close to getting caught though, and yes i ran like hell...there was no way i was getting arrested by some pitman wannabe cop sitting on 55.

[zuuhlsT/A]

i know of 3 aboned air strips around here , why can't we race there ???? ohhhh but we can go off roading in the middle of know where and get drunk and thats not a problem

Probably has something to do with the owner of the property would be held liable for anything that happened there. i.e some dumb kid that can't drive takes Dads car or his own out to race and ends up hurting the car and or himself and any innocent bystanders and.........OMG is that an army of lawyers coming to sue my A** off because it happened on my property??:nod: sad but true, our society has become a bunch of money hungry, sue happy pieces of gargage. Why get a job and work when you do do something astonomicaly stupid and get paid for it. It's just so sad...:cry:

p.m. me the airstrips bro, I'll go!!!!!

[NJSPEEDER]

poking around the interweb i looked a bit mroe into it. the wording from teh excerpts i read is all screwy. they have a ton of stipulations of how and when the laws in question wil be able to be applied.
sounds as powerless as the current laws, jsut with bigger and more glorious sounding fines to make the blue hairs happy.

[Dark_Knight7096]

Everyone clamoring for a clear definition of what "drag racing" or "making a speed run" is, will not get it.

Lawmakers are great for throwing a little ambiguity into their laws (in the favor of course) that way they can mold the definitions of what they have into what they choose. I've seen it done quite often before, its really sad that we allow our lawmakers to do this to us.

[Savage_Messiah]

I've been close to getting caught though... on 55.

You and me both... and another member or two I won't name :lol:

[Slow Z]

This law would make street racing's punishment a lot more severe than DUI/DWI... what is more serious and which causes more death in this state? I'm willing to bet street racing deaths are a fraction of DUI deaths in this state. Guys who propose bills like this shouldn't be in office, he's not thinking for the good of the people, he is thinking "this will get me in the paper, make me look better, and further my political career (and give me more money)"

Seriously, make the punishment fit the crime. saying street racing is worth 6 months in jail and DUI is worth 0-30 days in jail and 3 month license suspension is asinine and people who think otherwise should NOT be making laws.