my lt1 valvetrain plan...

[black95maro]

hey guys, so i did some research on my valvetrain options and this is what I came up with, I'm planning to build up my lt1 before i put it in...
-CC305 cam (cca-07-305-8)
-Crane gold race rrs 1.6 (crn-10758-16)
-Comp valve springs (cca-26-918-16)
-Comp retainers (cca-787-16)
-Comp valve locks (cca648-16)

thats all i have for now. The rockers are on they're way. the guy i'm getting my engine from has the cam he's selling to me for $150 any opinions on this? anyone have springs/retainer/locks for sale? thanks :redblob:

[ar0ck]

Don't buy USED CAMS!

[black95maro]

not used. he bought it for the engine but never used it, atleast thats what he says....:?:

[bad64chevelle]

This should be in the Engine section, and probably the second part in the classifieds section.

[JerzLT1]

yeah i wouldnt take someones word for it, besides i would buy a custom cam but thats just me. go bigger then the CC305

[Pampered-Z]

Roller cams don't ware like older flat tapet cams. As long as you inspect it you should be OK, also make sure you put the lifters back on the same holes.

You better double check your parts. Aren't the 787 LS1 retainers? For LT1s I've used the
795 retainers, which are only in 10 degree. These give you a +50 to get the correct install height (1.75-1.80), but you may not be able to use SA rockers are they will ride on the retainer, not the valve tip. So you also need NSA, guide plates and hardened push rods.

Since you're near 550 lift, (544 lift W/1.6 rockers). I'd suggest looking at something like the Crane 10308 kit ( dual springs). I'd double check with Crane, but I think they're good for your lift and fit the heads without needing machining.

But if you want Beehives, look at the following parts:

614-16 Locks +.50
4705-16 Locators
795-15 Retainers +.50
503-16 Valve seals
47530 Shims

Also make sure you check the spring install height on every valve. Few cases we had to shim allot of them to get them all at the right height on stock heads.

JB

[black95maro]

the guy I'm getting the engine from agreed to install whatever valve train parts i bring. the rrs are on the way he said he has the cam and some lt4 springs and retainers but i read they aren't that great so i want to upgrade. pampered, those part numbers are what he suggested to me. I'm still trying to learn this stuff! the pn you gave me for the springs has retainers that come with it! that looks pretty good to me...

[JSPERFORMANCE]

Unless you have a machinist's lathe or a cam holding fixture how are you planning to inspect the cam for runout?

[Pampered-Z]

the guy I'm getting the engine from agreed to install whatever valve train parts i bring. the rrs are on the way he said he has the cam and some lt4 springs and retainers but i read they aren't that great so i want to upgrade. pampered, those part numbers are what he suggested to me. I'm still trying to learn this stuff! the pn you gave me for the springs has retainers that come with it! that looks pretty good to me...


Don't try to use the LT4 springs, They can't handle the 544 lift, you'll go into coil bind.

[black95maro]

Don't try to use the LT4 springs, They can't handle the 544 lift, you'll go into coil bind.

i know i'm upgrading. so I think i'm gunna get the 10308 springs and retainers set you suggested. assuming i do, can i use the same 614-16 Locks? what are NSA and guide plates? i'm looking at comp hardened pushrods so thats no big deal. what else do you suggest? i really need to learn this stuff! thanks for the help by the way! much appreciated!

[Pampered-Z]

The kit contains all the hardware, springs, retainers, locks and shims, and you reuse the stock locators. If the heads are used then I would replace the valve seals while you have the springs off ( part # listed previously ).

I check with Crane and those springs set at 1.80 install height will have no problem with you 544 lift.

As far as Rockers, there are two basic types for our cars, Self-Align and non SA. A self Aligning has the body of the rocker designed so that it used the tip of the valve to keep it centered. This is good, but with certain retainers or very high lift cams the rocker body can actually hit the retainer. This could result on all kinds of issues up to a catastrophic failure!

A NSA rocker has no such prevision, so a guide plate is installed and it uses the pushrod to keep the rocker centered, in this case you must use a hardened pushrod.

hardened pushrod are stronger and a good upgrade with SA rockers. No need to go extreem with the $100+ ones if you don't want. Comp makes a stock replace hardened for about $40.

The pic below shows the two types of rockers, you can see the SA rocker on the left the roller is above the rocker body and the two guides ( that look like washers on each side of the roller ) keep the rocker centered. The NSA rocker on the right has no such prevision.


http://www.97transam.com/gm847cam/install/IMGP2796.JPG

The pic below is the guide plates. They install under the rocker arm stud and extend out around the pushrod to keep it centered.

http://www.97transam.com/gm847cam/install/IMGP2799.JPG

[black95maro]

wow i understand. awesome pics and all! ok so i have a set of crane gold sa rrs (10758) on the way, so are you suggesting i don't use them? because i heard good things about them... the nsa way seems safer and seems to be cheaper. but did you say the self adjusting ones won't work because they'll be riding on the retainer not the valve tip? so my list of things to buy is now,
-10308 springs and retainers set
-comp hardened pushrods
-503-16 Valve seals
maybe selling the sa and getting nda and guide plates?

[Pampered-Z]

No, self aligning are 100% fine to use, as long as you don't have clearance problems. You just need to check.

it's really not about better/safer, just you need to use all the right parts. There are advantages to the NSA such as lighter valve train, but on a basically stock motor you're not going to see any real advantage by switching.

Sorry, maybe I'm not being clear about why I got into the SA vrs NSA rockers..

Since you already have the cam and rockers, you really just need to select the valve springs/retainers that will work with the parts you already have. And your original post about using beehive springs BUT with the correct LT1 retainers would not work. Which is why I suggested different springs. And the economic hardened pushrods are a nice upgrade while installing the other parts.

BUT, If you do want to run the beehive springs, then you MUST change to the NSA rockers, guideplate and hardened pushrods, but in this case I would use the higher grade (and more expensive) pushrod.


Here the link to the full cam install if you want to look at other part numbers etc. My only suggestion is to use the proper hub install tool, our's was a few hundered miles away! One day I'll find time to document all the steps, bolt sizes and torque specs! This is how I found out beehives and SA rockers don't mix on an LT1.

http://www.97transam.com/97ta-cam.php

[ar0ck]

I have Comp Pro Mag 1.52 RR's and I needed to clearance my valve covers for them just so be aware of that too.

[black95maro]

No, self aligning are 100% fine to use, as long as you don't have clearance problems. You just need to check.

it's really not about better/safer, just you need to use all the right parts. There are advantages to the NSA such as lighter valve train, but on a basically stock motor you're not going to see any real advantage by switching.

Sorry, maybe I'm not being clear about why I got into the SA vrs NSA rockers..

Since you already have the cam and rockers, you really just need to select the valve springs/retainers that will work with the parts you already have. And your original post about using beehive springs BUT with the correct LT1 retainers would not work. Which is why I suggested different springs. And the economic hardened pushrods are a nice upgrade while installing the other parts.

BUT, If you do want to run the beehive springs, then you MUST change to the NSA rockers, guideplate and hardened pushrods, but in this case I would use the higher grade (and more expensive) pushrod.


Here the link to the full cam install if you want to look at other part numbers etc. My only suggestion is to use the proper hub install tool, our's was a few hundered miles away! One day I'll find time to document all the steps, bolt sizes and torque specs! This is how I found out beehives and SA rockers don't mix on an LT1.

http://www.97transam.com/97ta-cam.php
ok i see what your saying. so do you suggest i go with the 10308 springs and retainers set being the crane sa rockers should be here within the next few hours?

I have Comp Pro Mag 1.52 RR's and I needed to clearance my valve covers for them just so be aware of that too.

ok so do you think i should just get some taller valve covers?

[ar0ck]

ok so do you think i should just get some taller valve covers?

Unless your running a relocated altenator, the taller valve covers that you would normally find at the store won't work. LT1 valve covers are notched on the passenger side to fit the stock location of the rather large alternator. If you have a few hundred bucks extra laying around you could get Canton valve covers.

You'll be able to get away with just doing a good clearance job on the valve covers. Theres arches that go along the top that you can cut out with a dremel, just make sure you clean the valve covers with brake cleaner or something strong before re-installing them.

[Pampered-Z]

yes, with the 10308 and keep those rocker arms.

Rockers may clear the fins inside the valve covers, if not just cut out the section as shown in the link I posted.

[black95maro]

awesome thanks again alex i'll check that out, and pampered, are you john? did i meet you at chilies? I'm pretty sure i spoke to you there, could be wrong...:?:

[Tru2Chevy]

pampered, are you john? did i meet you at chilies? I'm pretty sure i spoke to you there, could be wrong...:?:

Yea, Pampers = John (with the GMC pickup)

- Justin

[Pampered-Z]

awesome thanks again alex i'll check that out, and pampered, are you john? did i meet you at chilies? I'm pretty sure i spoke to you there, could be wrong...:?:


Yup, I rode shotgun in the Jeff's white camaro....

[black95maro]

member me? i had the black 4th gen with 2 stock wheels and two cragars :rofl:

[Pampered-Z]

member me? i had the black 4th gen with 2 stock wheels and two cragars :rofl:

Sure do. Is your crew heading to Chevys fior the Feb meet (2/12)

[black95maro]

Sure do. Is your crew heading to Chevys fior the Feb meet (2/12)

more then likely. I'll talk to you then! :lol:

[black95maro]

hate to bring back my old thread but it's better then making a whole new one, i'm debating which cam i should get either the cc305 or the crane 227? i have Crane gold race rrs 1.6 (crn-10758-16) and Crane double valve spring kit (crn-10308 )
any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[Pampered-Z]

I'm not a big fan of the 227, only a touch more then the hot cam. And since your using unported heads go with the 305 cam ( 305-12A cam, it's on a 112 LSA, the standard is 114 LSA). And if you're putting in a cam might as well give the idle a little lope. :wink:

The 305 has more duration and you'll need that to help air flow, the 227 with only 210 duration will have a bit more low end torque, but it's going to start to run out of air at 5000 RPMS and probably be out of steam by 5500. The 305 will pull nicely from about 2800 right up to 6000 RPMs.

227 = 210/224, .510 / .552 112

305 = 220/230, .544 / .544 112

just want to throw this out: If you plan to do a convertor, gears ( maybe ported heads some day?) Then you might also want to look at this cam:

Comp 224/230. Has just slightly more intake duration then the 305, but has more agressive ramp angles. With 1.6 rockets it will be 224 / 230, .533 / .544 112 LSA. Because of the ramp angles this cam is going to have more lope at idle and probably a small bit ot surge, but it will pull even harder in the upper RPMs.

[black95maro]

john, your the man! so this cam you speak of, i looked it up on summit and got COMP Cams 07-503-8? this is the one your talking about right? this will work nicely with my rockers and springs? thanks so much for your help!

also, i found a Transmission Specialties torque converter, it is a 2200-2400 rpm stall. does this sound good?

[Tru2Chevy]

john, your the man! so this cam you speak of, i looked it up on summit and got COMP Cams 07-503-8? this is the one your talking about right? this will work nicely with my rockers and springs? thanks so much for your help!

also, i found a Transmission Specialties torque converter, it is a 2200-2400 rpm stall. does this sound good?

It's better than stock, but you'll prolly want a little more than that if you'll be hitting the track often. Best bet when getting a converter is to pick the rest of your combo then call one of the major converter manufacturers and tell them about your car, and what you want. They'll build a converter for your car, not just sell you something off the shelf.

- Justin

[Pampered-Z]

I looked it up on summit and got COMP Cams 07-503-8? this is the one your talking about right? this will work nicely with my rockers and springs? thanks so much for your help!

also, i found a Transmission Specialties torque converter, it is a 2200-2400 rpm stall. does this sound good?


Yup, that's the cam. And it will work perfectly with the spring kit.

And as Justin said, you proabably want a bit higher stall, I say at least 3000 stall. What gears are you planning to run, and what tires? For a bit more out of whole and still keep the car nice for cruising, a 3000-3200 stall and 3:42s would be a nice fit. If you want more ET and less miles per gallon, 3:73s and a 3600-3800 stall. But understand what is really streetable is a personal option. Some people feel 3600 is too much for the street, other want even higher.

JB

[black95maro]

do you guys think i should get new lifters? if so which ones?

[Pampered-Z]

How many miles are on them, if they have under 50-75K they are probably fine? You're not going to be using any big pressure springs, so stock lifters are fine.

If you want to replace them, go to a local autozone and get Melling lifters, same as OE without dealer price ( Autozone should be around $150 for all 16 ). Other option, people are having good results with the new Caddy racing lifters, although they are new so no real long term data on them yet.

Below is MY OPTION ( and that's all that it is, no hard facts ):
I'd suggest staying away from Morel, LS7 and Comp type R lifters. They are all good quality parts, but allot of people have various odd issues. Some people seem to be reporting problems with collapsing or not getting good oiling to the rockers and such with Morel and LS7s, I don't think is a manufacturing problem, I think it's because the stock LT1 pump just doesn't give enough oil pressure. The Comp R's have had problems in the past with broken retainer clips, and I think that is because people put too much lash into them, they are racing lifters and should only go 1/8 past 0 lash - that's how I run mine, but I also run a HP oil pump and heavier spring pressure.

OE lifters are fine, been using them with 306 and 847 cams with no problems at all.

[black95maro]

bringing this back again, I will be getting that cam (COMP Cams 07-503-8) and a tc. I plan to run 3.73s and 275/40/17 or possibly bigger. hmmm still in the development phase... any other suggestions?

[LTb1ow]

Get nice tires, you will not hook.

What size converter did you have in mind

[black95maro]

Get nice tires, you will not hook.

What size converter did you have in mind

what tires can you suggest? i have bald gforces now. and I was thinking about 3K? maybe a little bigger. not quite sure. looking for some guidance.

[LTb1ow]

I run a 3400 ish in mine, seems to be fine for DD.

[black95maro]

ok what about tires? i think i want to do either bfgs or nittos, not sure if i should go bigger then 275/40/17...

[sweetbmxrider]

what size wheels?

[LTb1ow]

Yea, and um give serious thought about your rear end...

[black95maro]

17s yea i did think about that. i thought maybe when i do the 373s i would do c clip eliminators because those things scare me. but a stronger rear would be in the future. not sure where i would go with that.

[sweetbmxrider]

width....9.5?

[black95maro]

same wheels as you. ss wheels. i'm getting them powercoated black. but yea they're 9.5" wide i believe?

[black95maro]

would a 3500-3800 stall be to much?

[LTb1ow]

I ended up with a 3400 ish. Works for me.

[black95maro]

I ended up with a 3400 ish. Works for me.

are you cammed? what's your setup?

[LTb1ow]

LT1 came with a cam from the factory no?

[black95maro]

LT1 came with a cam from the factory no?

it's a rare option lol seriously...

[LTb1ow]

With a stock cam I would say around 2800-3000 ish.

[Pampered-Z]

If the car is more of a DD then 3200 is fine, if you want more track performance go up on the stall.

97TransAm's car has a big cam and mac headers, 3:42 gears, 3600 Yank convertor and MT drag radials is running fairly consitant 12.2s ( But Ron can also drive and is a seasoned bracket racer!) I would think that 3:73 should get him into the 11s, but the car does see allot of highway driving (for now).


I wouldn't be worried about a C-clip elim. Since you have rear disk the axle are't going to come out like on a drum brake car.

[LTb1ow]

Phew, on a stock cam? 3200 will run out of steam real fast.

[black95maro]

i won't be running the stock cam. I'm going with the cc503

[LTb1ow]

Eh, go with the 3400 then.

[black95maro]

any band in particular?

[LTb1ow]

Vig, or Yank

[Pampered-Z]

Vig, or Yank

Yank, ProBuilt or Percision Industries = ( PI = Vig or Vigilante ) are probably the 3 best on the market and the ones you'll never hear complaints about. JSPerformance is a PI vendor and you'll probably get the best price from him.

[JSPERFORMANCE]

Thanks for the reccomendation John. Yes, we are a WD for Precision Industries Give us a call or an e-mail, we can set you up no problem.

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

I had a cc305 in my old 97 LT1, pretty good sniffer friendly cam...503 seems to be a popular option nowadays also.