Challenger: Muscle Car or Panzer Tank?

[BigAls87Z28]

http://jalopnik.com/352792/2008-dodge-challenger-srt8-revealed-officially

4160!!AHAHAHAHAH ITS HEAVER THEN A G8 GT!!
Interior is boring, straight out of teh Caliber
Low 5s for 0-60. Thats Mustang GT, 4th gen LS1 times, LS1 GTO times!! ohhhhhh man
The "heavy" GTO is some 300 lbs lighter!!! Cant wait for the vert!! 5000lbs on deck?

[Mike]

who cares, not everyone that wants a sports car is a weight nazi, the fact that it looks better than both the camaro and the mustang will help it sell even if its slower and heavier. not to mention its been gone longer and a lot of old school hemi fans will love them.

btw, its only 400 pounds heavier than my 4th gen was stock....with a nicer interior full roof heavier wheels etc.........oh btw, it makes up for the 400 pounds with 100 more horsepower.....

in my opinion it will be a 13.0-12.7 car stock, and we already know those srt motors LOVE mods....

[Savage_Messiah]

:rofl: @ the same pacifica ass interior the charger got slapped with

[BigAls87Z28]

The performance numbers are equal to that of a 4th gen.
42k for 6 year old performance.
If this was Camaro, it would be bashed off the planet.

[Mike]

its the same motor that powers a grand cherokee DEEP into the 12s with cold air exhaust and a tune, they arent worried al.

[BigAls87Z28]

Well, I guess for 42k, Ill be deep into the 11's with just a few bolt ons on my Camaro?
Again. Camaro gets ripped on pictures taken of a preproduction interior with a camera phone, and everyone holds hands and smiles when the Challenger, another pony car, comes to market with lackluster performance.
People rip on the expensive and slow SSR, yet the SSR and the Challenger are damn near equal in performance. At least teh SSR had a cool hard top that folded.

[Savage_Messiah]

gotta be honest challenger is 20 times better looking than the ssr. and there's all the diehard mopar fanbois

[Mike]

show me a real picture of the camaro then, you post shots weekly and then now you say none of them are how its gonna look. that dosent make sence. and do we even know the camaro is gonna be signifigantly lighter?

people bashed on the ssr becasuse it was slow as a car and useless as a truck.....you were buying corvette space with crap performance......i personally think the ssr was cool with the ls2 but it was already dead by the time they did that

[WildBillyT]

its the same motor that powers a grand cherokee DEEP into the 12s with cold air exhaust and a tune, they arent worried al.

I think the difference is that this is designed to be a sports car, not an SUV. And they had more than just straight line performance in mind. A 4000+ lb car will handle like crap. The amount of weight being transferred is pretty massive.

[NightRydaSS]

That's a BIG bitch....

[Savage_Messiah]

Can someone confirm or deny the rumors that this thing is actually gonna come with an open diff?!

[BigAls87Z28]

show me a real picture of the camaro then, you post shots weekly and then now you say none of them are how its gonna look. that dosent make sence. and do we even know the camaro is gonna be signifigantly lighter?

people bashed on the ssr becasuse it was slow as a car and useless as a truck.....you were buying corvette space with crap performance......i personally think the ssr was cool with the ls2 but it was already dead by the time they did that

The two pictures released by GM are the only clear pictures of a preproduction car.
I neve said those picture are not the Camaro, they are. The shots of the interior that are not production ready, meaing they dont have exact fit, texture, featuers that a production car would, are being bashed.

Correct, no lsd. Charger ST8 has no LSD either.

[Mike]

and about the weight?

[LS1Hawk]

That is a great looking car. I'm just a little disappointed about the interior. I thought they would have carried more of the elements over from the concept's into the production. For us gear heads, the weight is an issue. But the general buying public isn't going to care. If they like the way the car looks and enjoy the test drive, it will do fine.

[Savage_Messiah]

lol even FTV6 is bashing this thing to hell

"We have problems with 200 hp and no lsd... what the hell are they thinking?!" hahaha

[BigAls87Z28]

Camaro wont make 2 tons unless you load it up with everything, including convertable. Then I can see a 2 tons.

[Iroc-z86]

id have to agree with bigal on most points, its true all the new camaro gets is bashing how this isnt that or something useless. last time i checked the camaro was in preproduction stages..correct me if im wrong but a lot could change from now till the first one rolls off the line. All that crap about how the camaro looks like the mustang is old too, what do you think the camaro is? chevy's answer to the mustang so yes of course its going to be similar. look at other manufacturers and how they resemble competition.

on the challenger subject i think its nice, no doubt it will be fast. 4100lbs is heavy but 3rd gens stock were 4300lbs so i really dont think the weight will affect it THAT much. and seeing as how chrysler actually is doing something right im pretty confident that they would beef up the suspension considering the list of engines they are offering.

:2cents:

[Savage_Messiah]

3rd gens stock were 4300lbs

wat

[Mike]

i think 3300 is closer

[BigAls87Z28]

Third gens were on the range of 3300lbs. First gens were something like 3100-3200, with 4ths pulling 3500 and late 2nd gens getting as heavy as 3700lbs.
If the 5th gen can be in the range of a 4th gen, we aer talking about a great performance car.

[Mike]

my 99 was 3760 with an 1/8th tank and my 200 pound ass in it when it was stock so yah 3500 sounds right al

[Untamed]

I'm one who won't care what the racing specs are of the car. It will have to be comfortable, with a functional interior, and some pep to enjoy on the commute. The lines on the Challenger and the Camaro look very similar, and yet the Challenger looks a little more agressive than the Camaro. Lowered? Larger rims? Wider body? Dunno what it is, but I like the looks of the Challenger more than the Camaro now. I also like the Challenger interior - as spartan as it is - over the Camaro as well.

Still leaning towards the CTS however.

[enRo]

I want a panzer tank :(

[Frosty]

LOL@4300lbs thirdgens. You'd have to have to fill the car up with some fat chicks to achieve that weight.

I like the Challenger but I'd never buy one. Chrysler, in my mind, is still junk. I'm sure with some mods the Challenger will fly but eh, for $42K it's not that great of a deal IMO.

[Tru2Chevy]

4100lbs is heavy but 3rd gens stock were 4300lbs so i really dont think the weight will affect it THAT much.

WTF are you smoking? I hope that was a typo.....

- Justin

[12secondv6]

Al, I know you love GM.

My take on it..... I think it is sexy as hell!

I LOVE this car. If I had the money.... I would get one.

I know you mention its weight.... and they reference a 1/4 mile of 14's. I looked up the charger SRT8 and it is also 4100-4200 lbs (4160 to be exact) with the same engine and those run very low 13's (poor driver) and high 12's (good driver) stock.

So, I expect that the challenger SRT8 will be a 12 second car

As for the comments about no LSD.....let me shed some light on this. Did you know that Mercedes-Benz doesn't have LSD in the following cars? As in.... open differential.... as in one wheel wonder.

Please look at the HP and TQ #'s

C55 362 HP 376 TQ
SLK55 355 HP 376 TQ
SL55 510 HP 465 TQ
CL55 493 HP 516 TQ
S55 493 HP 516 TQ
SL63 517 HP 465 TQ
S63 517 HP 465 TQ
CL63 518 HP 465 TQ
CLK63 475 HP 465 TQ
CLS55 469 HP 516 TQ
CLS63 507 HP 465 TQ
E63 sedan 507 HP 465 TQ
E63 wgaon 507 HP 465 TQ
E55 sedan 469 HP 516 TQ
E55 wagon 469 HP 516 TQ
S600 510 HP 612 TQ
SL600 510 HP 612 TQ
CL600 510 HP 612 TQ

:drool: Mercedes technology at its finest. Dodge will be using this technology in this SRT8 ;)

A majority of the above cars run mid 12's (average driver) to high 11's (good driver) in stock OPEN DIFFERENTIAL form.

Granted..... LSD comes standard on:
SL65 604 HP 738 TQ
S65 604 HP 738 TQ
CL65 604 HP 738 TQ
Various AMG cars that have the optional P30 (or used to be 030) AMG Performance package

So.... do I feel having no LSD will affect performance.... well, since Mercedes helped them out.... nope

[12secondv6]

Oh yeah.... and it sleaed the deal in my mind that I would prefer the challenger over the camaro - sorry.

[bad64chevelle]

Chrysler, in my mind, is still junk.

Thats funny you tell that to all the guys with 4.0 L Jeeps that are still ticking at 300k miles...

[Frosty]

Thats funny you tell that to all the guys with 4.0 L Jeeps that are still ticking at 300k miles...

Which is no longer made right? ;)

[GP99GT]

everyone needs to just buy a notchback mustang and be sub 3000 with minimal work ;)

[Mike]

everyone needs to just buy a notchback mustang and be sub 3000 with minimal work ;)


:shifty: you mean somthing like this :shifty:
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/1824101497.jpg?1202340207

[Iroc-z86]

chrysler isnt total junk...i own a jeep and jeep is one thing they are still doing right.


ok, so about the 3rd gen weight. why does the original door sticker say 4300lbs if everyone is saying its only 3300. I also thought i did hear something where the fox body mustangs were just about 1000lbs lighter than 3rd gen f-bodies. Im willing to admit im wrong but i can almost swear my door sticker says 4300. i can try to take a pic on friday...but thats best i can do.

[LS1Hawk]

My dad sold his '93 Intrepid last year with around 175K on the odometer and it was still running like new. And my mom has a 2000 Concorde that's never had any major issues. So I have nothing bad to say about Chrysler. But I'm going to wait to 2009 and see what the V6 and RT (5.7L) models will go for.

[Tru2Chevy]

ok, so about the 3rd gen weight. why does the original door sticker say 4300lbs if everyone is saying its only 3300.

That's the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating), not curb weight. That shows how much weight you can put in the car (including it's own weight).

- Justin

[Pampered-Z]

Of all the cars I've owned, my favorite has always been my 1970 Plum crazy 440 sixpack challenger R/T. So I could care less if the camaro is lighter, or the vette is faster for less. If I see a new Challenger in Plum crazy, I'll be making room in the garage for a new addition!

The track only Challenger should also be sending a message to Ford and GM the they are going after the GT cars like they did with the viper going after the vette. All those lightweight peices are going to find their way to the street! It didn't take long for GM to answer that call with the vette getting new advances. Hopefully the challenger will fuel the fire ande kick GM in the butt to produce specialty camaros like the 1LE again or keeping upping the HP and performance of the cars.

[Mike]

sublime green :drool:

[Iroc-z86]

That's the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating), not curb weight. That shows how much weight you can put in the car (including it's own weight).

- Justin

ok i stand corrected.

[WildBillyT]

Thats funny you tell that to all the guys with 4.0 L Jeeps that are still ticking at 300k miles...

Oh yeah?

Two words.

Dana 35c.

J/K man, I agree about the Jeeps. My buddy wailed the hell out of his for 3 years straight and he still has it now, running great, almost 10 years later.

[98tadriver]

id have to agree with bigal on most points, its true all the new camaro gets is bashing how this isnt that or something useless. last time i checked the camaro was in preproduction stages..correct me if im wrong but a lot could change from now till the first one rolls off the line. All that crap about how the camaro looks like the mustang is old too, what do you think the camaro is? chevy's answer to the mustang so yes of course its going to be similar. look at other manufacturers and how they resemble competition.

on the challenger subject i think its nice, no doubt it will be fast. 4100lbs is heavy but 3rd gens stock were 4300lbs so i really dont think the weight will affect it THAT much. and seeing as how chrysler actually is doing something right im pretty confident that they would beef up the suspension considering the list of engines they are offering.

:2cents: :shock::shock: lol yeah like mike said, 3300 lol

[Iroc-z86]

anyone got a pic of the door sticker on where that says 3300? i cant exactly look at mine any time soon... thanks.

[Tru2Chevy]

anyone got a pic of the door sticker on where that says 3300? i cant exactly look at mine any time soon... thanks.

I don't think the door sticker lists curb weight, since it would be different for each car depending on options and such.

- Justin

[edpontiac91]

:shifty: you mean somthing like this :shifty:
http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/1824101497.jpg?1202340207

IS THAT THE A/C DELETE OPTION :?:

[SteveR]

The performance numbers are equal to that of a 4th gen.
42k for 6 year old performance.
If this was Camaro, it would be bashed off the planet.

The Firehawk numbers were better. Its sad when a 1995 315hp car had better stock numbers than a 2008 with 425hp. I love the look of the car and the 1970 Challenger is one of my favorite cars, but I do fear its weight. I got to drive a 2006 Charger Daytona a few weeks ago and even though it has 360hp, it felt like 160. It was so heavy that it just felt sluggish. The 300hp Mustangs feel 1000 times more responsive. Another thing is that it's built on the same basic platform as the Charger, which is built on the basic platform as the Magnum, which is old technology now. The new Challenger is in the new issue of Hot Rod, and it looks good, but 6000 orders have already been placed, and its only available as an SRT8, and in three colors. Looks like it'll be hard just to find one to test drive.

[jims69camaro]

i dunno, the challenger looks pretty sexy... remind me of the T/As with that hood. nice beltline, too.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/jims69camaro/challenger474238.jpg


not enough to steer me away from the camaro, but still a good looking car. supposedly there is a 'cuda in the works, too.

[jims69camaro]

If I see a new Challenger in Plum crazy, I'll be making room in the garage for a new addition!

i haven't seen plum crazy, but the orange is nice. black is also dead-on. and the silver car is making the rounds of the forums. i'd like to see the far out colors like they had in the '60s/'70s, but i don't think they will get that radical.

[jims69camaro]

The new Challenger is in the new issue of Hot Rod, and it looks good, but 6000 orders have already been placed, and its only available as an SRT8, and in three colors. Looks like it'll be hard just to find one to test drive.

especially since they are only slated to produce 7700 of them. :eek:

[LS1Hawk]

especially since they are only slated to produce 7700 of them. :eek:

Really? I didn't hear anything about the SRT8s being a limited production. I heard 7,000 for the Mustang Bullitt. However, they're going to have a v6 and a R/T 5.7L come out next year. In fact, the info for them is already on Dodge's website: http://www.dodge.com/en/2009/challenger/models/se/index.html

[jims69camaro]

sorry, the number wasn't 7700. it is 6400 for the 2008 model.

http://www.autoblog.com/tag/DodgeChallengerSRT8/

[BrandonDrecksage]

do they have larges slabs of marble in the car? Where did the weight come from? I look at the car and it looks like it should weigh 3200-3300 lbs. i'm in the market for a newer car probably when the camaro comes out, but if gm ****s it up(by **** up..i mean two tons of a **** up) then i'm not even looking at one.

it just seams like the cars get more hp, but don't get any faster. i remember 10 years ago it was almost unheard of to have 400 hp in a factory based car..but cars could run mid to low 13s. now we have cars with 400+ hp that run the same times.

[91DropTop]

the car is great looking and MB influence has deff helped the chrysler family...buuuuuuuuuuuut they need to put a M/T in there like a nice viper 6sp i wouldnt buy it in auto even with my dealer discount

[BigAls87Z28]

do they have larges slabs of marble in the car? Where did the weight come from? I look at the car and it looks like it should weigh 3200-3300 lbs.

Have you ever seen the car in person? This thing is a TANK!! Its better then a 4th gen in every single way. It looks like it should have a turret on it. 3200lbs? The Corvette is 3200lbs. You need to readjust your eye-scale.

i'm in the market for a newer car probably when the camaro comes out, but if gm ****s it up(by **** up..i mean two tons of a **** up) then i'm not even looking at one.

Camaro will not be 2 tons unless you load her up.

it just seams like the cars get more hp, but don't get any faster. i remember 10 years ago it was almost unheard of to have 400 hp in a factory based car..but cars could run mid to low 13s. now we have cars with 400+ hp that run the same times.

People want more and more higher quality stuff. 10 years ago, AC was still optional. Now you have tri-zone climate control with heated and cooled seats. Not to mention side air bags, curtain air bags, dual stage air bags, saftey, and comfort all weight down the car.
On top of the fact that hp grows exponentially as times drop. While a 200hp will run 16, 300hp might run 13's...but 400hp will run high 12's. 500hp will run low 12's. Look at the Bugatti. It only needed some 300hp to get to 155hp. The last 100mph needs another 700hp. Gravity keeps pulling you down, you need more push to go faster.

Look at the difference of the 03/04 Cobra vs the GT500's. The et's arent too far off. At some time you have a point of dimishing returns.

[Tru2Chevy]

do they have larges slabs of marble in the car? Where did the weight come from? I look at the car and it looks like it should weigh 3200-3300 lbs. i'm in the market for a newer car probably when the camaro comes out, but if gm ****s it up(by **** up..i mean two tons of a **** up) then i'm not even looking at one.

It's just a Chrsyler 300 with a different body on it and suspension tuning.....all the cars on that platform are big and heavy.

It has been reported several times that GM's target weight for the Camaro is ~3600lbs, which is roughly 500lbs less than the Challenger. I say that's a pretty good weight for a sports coupe with IRS and all the modern safety features and gadgets that it's bound to have. Would be nice if they had a de-optioned "stripper" version, but I doubt that it will happen.

- Justin