Header Help

[usp55]

I have been doing research on installing headers on my car and have found several people whom have done it themselves. A set of pacesetter for $225 shipped is more than feasible for me - it’s the $400 for installation that hard to bite into. I have ordered the stage8 locking bolts and better gaskets because one way or another im putting headers on. I have 2 jacks - one is smaller but I can’t get the larger one under the car unless I jack it up first - its pretty beefy, 2 jack stands also.

I want to know if there is anyone who would be interested in helping me out with this installation. It doesn’t sound to difficult but im not exactly a car guy yet and have only done minor engine work like changing the water pump, EGR, (yea i know not exactly rebuilding an engine) Also another reason I would like to learn how to do this header swap. I could just drop it off at a shop spend the 400 but then I don’t gain any knowledge.

Beer and pizza would without a doubt be supplied and even cash in hand if requested, just let me know. From what i have read it takes several hours and most of the time is just getting the old ones off. (Not sure how caked on mine would be since I had a rebuilt engine put in about 10k ago) I have a muffler shop less than a mile down the road who can weld the headers to my cat after the're hooked up

So if you think u might wana help let me know - im off on Sundays and Mondays (just class Monday till 3) so that’s would prob be the best day for me.

Just throwing this out there. Oh and im in the middle of writing my senior thesis and preparing for my last two major presentations of my college career, all due in the next three weeks. This is sort of a present to myself for completing college but I have to really spend sometime on those things. The earliest Sunday I could work on this would be Sunday the 27th of April.

[bubba428]

I could probably give you a hand....I'll be a bit closer than so its not even a big deal. Just make sure you have A LOT of PB blaster and a good torch.

[usp55]

ha yea i already have plenty of PB and i can get ahold of a good torch

[Rich2279]

I can if I'm not still at Spring Carlisle that day. Sicklerville, NJ

[GrandmasterCow]

I can prob give you a hand also bro since i'm in sewell also.

[deadtrend1]

I could probably give you a hand too. You got a wide assortment of tools for this?

[Tru2Chevy]

That's right around the time I should be closing on my new house, so I doubt I'll be able to come help, but I will tell you this - start spraying PB Blaster on all the exhaust bolts several days in advance. At least once or twice a day. That should make things much easier, and hopefully none of the studs will break off.

- Justin

[01SS]

If you guys set a date for this let me know. I am also in sewell and would at least like to see how it is done. I can also offer whatever kind of help I have to offer. Not much in this area but I can offer muscle or go pick up the pizza for you guys. Let me know if ya want the extra company that day.

[GrandmasterCow]

If you guys set a date for this let me know. I am also in sewell and would at least like to see how it is done. I can also offer whatever kind of help I have to offer. Not much in this area but I can offer muscle or go pick up the pizza for you guys. Let me know if ya want the extra company that day.

do you ever go through sewell? I never see your car, id love to see it in person.

[bubba428]

I've got plenty of tools, as long as no one was in my box again. And I can bring jack stands to make life easier/safer

[Slow 88]

If you need anything welded PM me and if I am around I'll hook you up for free of course...

[ap2000z28]

I will make the 10 house trip down the street to give you guys some company lol. Just let me know what day you do it.

[bubba428]

O and the absolute most important thing you'll need, is beer.

[usp55]

O and the absolute most important thing you'll need, is beer.

I will have plenty of everyones favorite beer on hand. Just let me know whats your brew of choice.

[bubba428]

I will have plenty of everyones favorite beer on hand. Just let me know whats your brew of choice.

an open one

[JerzLT1]

post up a date, ill see what i can do, just make sure you have the right tools for it.

[usp55]

I would like to shoot for Sunday the 27th of April, Im flexible if a different date would be better. I'm pretty sure I have the tools to do the job. From what I have read I dont think there are any specialty tool required for a header swap. Always been able to get other jobs done with my set of tools. Bubba mentioned above that he has tools also, so hopefully he can make it.

[GrandmasterCow]

I would like to shoot for Sunday the 27th of April, Im flexible if a different date would be better. I'm pretty sure I have the tools to do the job. From what I have read I dont think there are any specialty tool required for a header swap. Always been able to get other jobs done with my set of tools. Bubba mentioned above that he has tools also, so hopefully he can make it.

i can bring tools also just in case lol

[bubba428]

damn dude your gonna have 15 guys and only enough space for 2 to work....

[ap2000z28]

damn dude your gonna have 15 guys and only enough space for 2 to work....

the rest of us can stand around eat pizza and drink the beers lol

[Jersyboyy]

What kind of car are the headers being put on? My brother and I installed some longtubes on an lt1 bird. PB BLASTER and a breaker bar helped out alot.

[GrandmasterCow]

the rest of us can stand around eat pizza and drink the beers lol
:w00t:

[Featherburner]

the rest of us can stand around eat pizza and drink the beers lolThat's one of the "jobs" I do best.

[JerzLT1]

I would like to shoot for Sunday the 27th of April, Im flexible if a different date would be better. I'm pretty sure I have the tools to do the job. From what I have read I dont think there are any specialty tool required for a header swap. Always been able to get other jobs done with my set of tools. Bubba mentioned above that he has tools also, so hopefully he can make it.

i wont be there if its then, doing the whole military thing that day. plus if Bubba is working on it id rather have nothing to do with it. that way when it doesnt go as planned i cant be blamed :lol:

[bubba428]

headers on a 3.4 are WAY easier than you'd think...me and Ron had the manifolds out of my car in under an hour

[JerzLT1]

headers on a 3.4 are WAY easier than you'd think...me and Ron had the manifolds out of my car in under an hour

Bubba there is no doubt in my mind that youll still find a way to screw it up. btw Ron = teh ***** at working on cars so nuff said about that.

[01SS]

do you ever go through sewell? I never see your car, id love to see it in person.

I am right on Chapel Heights Rd. im always heading through glasboro on the way to school around 7:20 am. We will have to meet up sometime to shoot the **** maybe during the header swap. Startin to look like 2 south jrsey meets in one month with as many people that might show up. LOL!!

[bubba428]

Bubba there is no doubt in my mind that youll still find a way to screw it up. btw Ron = teh ***** at working on cars so nuff said about that.

I only screw stuff up when I have to use cheaper, or reuse parts I shouldn't have because I can afford new/better parts. my mechanical ability is sound, my wallet just can't keep up.

[GrandmasterCow]

I am right on Chapel Heights Rd. im always heading through glasboro on the way to school around 7:20 am. We will have to meet up sometime to shoot the **** maybe during the header swap. Startin to look like 2 south jrsey meets in one month with as many people that might show up. LOL!!

haha hell yeah man, i'm getting my front end fixed soon and on the road to a dyno. yeah i live down the road from clearview highschool.

[98tadriver]

i have a lift and lots of tools/air compressor at my house, and that would make header install a heck of alot easier. i live within 1 hour south of you. ive done a few installs on my car and my friends cars. If youre willing to make the drive, i am willing to lend a hand. :) if your stock exhaust manifold gaskets are in good shape, re use them. if not, buy the stock replacements. My friends and I had no issues with leaks.

[bubba428]

i have a lift and lots of tools/air compressor at my house, and that would make header install a heck of alot easier. i live within 1 hour south of you. ive done a few installs on my car and my friends cars. If youre willing to make the drive, i am willing to lend a hand. :) if your stock exhaust manifold gaskets are in good shape, re use them. if not, buy the stock replacements. My friends and I had no issues with leaks.

the pace setters come with gaskets.

[bandit88]

I only screw stuff up when I have to use cheaper, or reuse parts I shouldn't have because I can afford new/better parts. my mechanical ability is sound, my wallet just can't keep up.

If you can't afford the hobby get a cheaper one! :moon:

[usp55]

I have read several posts from various boards about the insufficient quality of the gaskets that are supplied with the pacesetters. Im looking at picking up some abbot or fel-pro gaskets

[JerzLT1]

i have copper on mine but you have to make sure you use the sealer (cant remember the exact name)

[usp55]

are u talking about the copper RTV?
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/194760.jpg

[WildBillyT]

are u talking about the copper RTV?
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/194760.jpg

They make copper header gaskets. Basically blow-out proof, but they aren't the best at giving a complete seal from what I remember.

[bubba428]

they don't make the special gaskets for 3.4s

[98tadriver]

if the stock ones resemble anything like the LS1 stock gaskets, get the stock ones. dont have to worry about sealant or anything

[bubba428]

just get these from advance auto

http://www.partsamerica.com/product_images/img/fel/ms90864.jpg

[usp55]

I have been talking with members of camarov6.com and ftv6.com and the fiero gaskets fit much better than the stock one on these pacesetter headers. Look at FunkZ's post #10 on this thread. The pics of the stock gaskets on the headers

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35165&highlight=gaskets+fiero


http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/gaskets1.jpg



These fel-pro gaskets apparently fit much better
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/ms93045.jpg

[WildBillyT]

I have been talking with members of camarov6.com and ftv6.com and the fiero gaskets fit much better than the stock one on these pacesetter headers. Look at FunkZ's post #10 on this thread. The pics of the stock gaskets on the headers



Yes, just keep in mind that gaskets like the ones Bubba posted will be easiest to install. You can loosely put the bottom header bolts in and then let the header hang while you drop the gasket in through the gap. I've never done 3.4 V6 gaskets so I don't know how much room you have, but the drop-in gaskets (if they are good quality) can be a lifesaver if the header is in some wacky position.

[bubba428]

they are in one hell of a spot, the 2 missing cylinders helps a bit but its still tight.

Big question: Are you keeping the emissions crap?

[usp55]

Big question: Are you keeping the emissions crap?

What else is there besides the EGR? I would like to keep it, i just replaced it about 4 months ago. Also wont i fail inspection without it? has to be reinspected in 09) or at the very least drop codes all the time?i have a proscanner but i would rather not have to pull it our to delete the code everytime it drops it. I belive the only alteration to the EGR is the fact that the tube has to be filed down a little bit to fit into the headers.

[bubba428]

I don't know if yours will have it but there is an AIR tube that runs around the back of the motor. its not necessary but at state inspection they may fail you if they know what they are looking for.

[usp55]

the 3.4L's with automatic trans didnt have the AIR option if my research is correct

[bubba428]

that should make it easier

[sweetbmxrider]

if you erase codes it resets all of the individual system's "readiness" which becomes a failure on almost all 96+ OBD-II cars if more than two are "not ready". examples are misfire, evap, o2's. ect...

i just replaced the donut between the y-pipe and manifold on the passenger side on my 3.4l, what a beast! its nice and quiet now but i'm not sure it was worth the fight! those are sooooo tight!

oh and the egr is so simple to replace so make sure you get headers with a hookup. and the gaskets too. might as well while you are there.

[usp55]

I have been sitting here looking at herron performance's website and i just cant make the decicion on armor coated or just that painted ones. I have the stage 8's, the gaskets, pb blaster, beer ; just have to decide

Armor coated
pros
- proposed head reduction
- they look better
-

cons
-extra $117
-have been told the finish will start to come off anyway after a year and start to rust anyway (have been told that but have yet to see pics after a year or so.)
-in the 3.4 you really cant even see them
-


its not that i dont have the cash for them its just that im having a hard to justifying the fact that spending the extra coin for somehting that will just start to rust anyway after a year dosnt seem worth it. Also according to several posts the coating is only rated to about a 1000 degrees (the reason it starts to flake) while getting the JET-Coated one ($471) is the onlything that will hold up to the heat in the engine bay.

does anyone have armor coated headers - does the finish hold up?

[deadtrend1]

The amor coating on my pacesetters suck total ass. I would order the painted ones, send them to jet-hot and get the sterling 1300 coating.

Ive had mine on for about a year and they are looking like total crap and the finish is comming off. I ran the jet-hot coating on the edelbrocks i had on my old 91 for 3+ years up until i sold it and the finish still looked great.

little more money now saves a lot of work later.

~Tim

oh, and im not saying this for asthetic reasons. They are not stainless steel so one the finish comes off they will rust. Mine are rusting at the collectors, and little on the primary flanges so I'm going to pull them off soon and totally redo everything.

[bcgetfresh]

ive had mine for about 5 months now and they still look good.

[bubba428]

save the money and get the painted.....you'll never see them anyway

[usp55]

thanks for the responses everyone - yea i just cant see the point in spending extra money for something that wont last and will rust anyway.

jet hot run about $471 http://www.ftpp.net/V6Main.htm just not an option really

[usp55]

ok i ordered the headers and there is just one final question. I got the painted ones and wanted your opinion on header wraps. I have read that while the raps reduce the heat they may also hold in some moisture that will cause rust for form more quickly. There are also some high temp silicone sealers for the wraps. Wouldn’t the sealer prevent any moister from getting under the wrap?

so in spend the 40bucks for wrap and spray and get the heat retention of the ceramic coated ones, but should last longer.

any thoughts? not worth it?

[deadtrend1]

like I already said about the ceramic coating, I would just send it out right off the bat and you get a lifetime warrany on it. I don't like the header wrap.

But whatever.....

[usp55]

Yea i hear you. I dont like the idea of having to wrap them and spray them either just looking for options. if i do the jet hot im gona have to hold off on my planned date of the 27th as im gona need more time to send them out and save for the jet-hot coating.

[deadtrend1]

Y if i do the jet hot im gona have to hold off on my planned date of the 27th as im gona need more time to send them out and save for the jet-hot coating.

I would. There is no need to rush them. Its better (and eventually cheaper) to take your time and get it all right the first time.

[WildBillyT]

Only a rich man can afford to paint and wrap headers because only a rich man can afford to do it twice. Do the Jet-Hot.

JMO

[bubba428]

yea, I agree, if your that worried about the finish get the jet hot.

[Tru2Chevy]

Jet Hot all the way.....they look good, they help keep heat out of the engine bay, and they have a lifetime warranty.

- Justin

[usp55]

Everything is in except for the stage8's and they should be here tomorrow. I went with the coated pacesetters for a number of reasons. I guess the one last this to figure out is who is actually going to be able to help me out and is Sunday still a good day for people - its my only really full day off. Sunday the 27th of April. Located in Sewell NJ, 08080

So ill start a list on this post of those who can come teach me how to install these and anyone else who just wants to come. Feel free to bring your cars would love to finally see some of them in person. My neighbors will love it. My nextdoor neighbor will prob fire up his red Chevelle for a cruze as he usually does on Sundays. Also Pizza and plenty of beer will be on hand. I have always just jacked my car up on my driveway ( slight incline but i use my aircraft chocks from work and jack stands so the car isn’t going anywhere) or i can clear the garage out and jack it up in there.



Attending:
-bubba428 (pending)
-ap2000z28

[bubba428]

I'm down as long as I have a cell by then, PM full address so I can Google directions.

[ap2000z28]

I will stop by to get to know some faces and hang out!

[madness410]

congrats on finishing college dude

[usp55]

congrats on finishing college dude

Thank you - now I need to find a real job - in a slumping economy and a downsizing pharmaceutical industry (B.S. in Pharmaceutical Mkt & Management)

[Knipps]

Thank you - now I need to find a real job - in a slumping economy and a downsizing pharmaceutical industry (B.S. in Pharmaceutical Mkt & Management)

I'm currently in school for my Pharm D. They don't have enough of us :lol:

[usp55]

I'm currently in school for my Pharm D. They don't have enough of us :lol:

u got that right. oh the good old days of Organic,Physiology,Pharmacology, and on and on and on. I took two years of pharmacy as an undecided student - had the grades to move on but they couldnt give me a seat in the major, long story - so now I'm looking to sell drugs (legally) for a living. Bout to graduate from University of the Sciences in Philadelphia (cough-1st pharmacy school in the country-cough) where u currently going?

[sweetbmxrider]

do the v6's tend to sag in the motor mounts? cuz you might run into a brick wall if you don't clear your steering shaft. not sure if the header comes out far enough, but its gotta be kinda close.

[usp55]

do the v6's tend to sag in the motor mounts? cuz you might run into a brick wall if you don't clear your steering shaft. not sure if the header comes out far enough, but its gotta be kinda close.

in all my my research looking at posts from other 3.4s who installed pacesetters on various boards, i have not heard of it being a problem.

Here they are on the drivers side of a 3.8 ( apparently there is even more room on the 3.4's) and they clear just fine. sorry i hate uploading pics but photobucket is not cooperating with me right now.

[sweetbmxrider]

lucky. lt1's droop like... i better not say

[Knipps]

u got that right. oh the good old days of Organic,Physiology,Pharmacology, and on and on and on. I took two years of pharmacy as an undecided student - had the grades to move on but they couldnt give me a seat in the major, long story - so now I'm looking to sell drugs (legally) for a living. Bout to graduate from University of the Sciences in Philadelphia (cough-1st pharmacy school in the country-cough) where u currently going?

Massachusetts College of Pharmacy & Allied Health Sciences
(or MCPHS as anyone normal calls it :lol:)

I didn't even know about that school until a friend of mine from high school was dating a student there, as you can tell I had an excellent guidance counselor

[WildBillyT]

Thank you - now I need to find a real job - in a slumping economy and a downsizing pharmaceutical industry (B.S. in Pharmaceutical Mkt & Management)

I hear that. I work for a Communications/Market Reasearch company who deals mostly with pharma and we see the industry retracting around us.