GM may ax Hummer due to gas prices

[chevyt454]

General Motors is closing four truck and SUV plants in the U.S., Canada and Mexico as surging fuel prices hasten a dramatic shift to smaller vehicles.

CEO Rick Wagoner said Tuesday before the automaker's annual meeting in Delaware the plants to be closed are in Oshawa, Ontario; Moraine, Ohio; Janesville, Wis.; and Toluca, Mexico. He also said the iconic Hummer brand may be discontinued.

Wagoner said the GM board has approved production of a new small Chevrolet car at a plant in Lordstown, Ohio, in mid-2010 and the Chevy Volt electric vehicle in Detroit.

Wagoner announced the moves in response to slumping sales of pickups and SUVs brought on by high oil prices. He said a market shift to smaller vehicles is permanent.

The cuts will affect about 2,500 workers at each of the four facilities, although Wagoner did not know exact numbers. Many will be able to take openings created when 19,000 more U.S. hourly workers leave later this year through early retirement and buyout offers.

He said the company has no plans to allocate products to the four plants in the future.

"We really would not foresee the likely prospect of new products in the plants that we're announcing today that we'll cease production in," he told a Moraine, Ohio, city official who asked a question in a telephone conference call.

The moves will save the company $1 billion per year starting in 2010. Combined with previous efforts, GM will have cut costs by $15 billion a year, Wagoner said.

Wagoner said GM's board approved the production schedule of the Chevrolet Volt, and the company plans to bring the plug-in electric car to showrooms by the end of 2010. The Volt runs on an electric motor and has a small engine to recharge its batteries.

He said the change in the U.S. market to smaller vehicles likely is permanent. "We at GM don't think this is a spike or a temporary shift," Wagoner said.

The Detroit-based automaker also has just emerged from a spate of labor problems, with two local union strikes at key factories and a nearly three-month strike at key parts maker American Axle and Manufacturing Holdings Inc.

GM said in a recent regulatory filing the strikes will cost it a total of $2 billion before taxes in the second quarter.

[LS1Hawk]

Just read that on AOL. Didn't know they were gonna have the Volt out by 2010. That's pretty cool.

Wonder what this all means for performance cars...

[procamaroz28]

nnnooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

[qwikz28]

i hope they do so i can pick up a used H2 after gas prices go down

[Firebird]

Just read that on AOL. Didn't know they were gonna have the Volt out by 2010. That's pretty cool.

Wonder what this all means for performance cars...

it means youll need to buy crate motors from now on

[Savage_Messiah]

Didn't know they were gonna have the Volt out by 2010. That's pretty cool.


:stupid:

[damon_Z]

News about any auto manufacturer discontinuing large trucks and SUV's, because of high gas prices is always good news. There will be less of those monstrosities on the road and in the parking lots, giving automobile and motorcycle drivers more space, more safety, and better vision. We'll also see a further drop in gasoline demand at least here in the United States.

[qwikz28]

looks like tata motors is interested in buying hummer...

[ryanfx]

There is no way the H1 will ever get axed. The demand from the army alone will keep them in production. The H2 + H3? very possibly gonna get axed.

[Tru2Chevy]

There is no way the H1 will ever get axed. The demand from the army alone will keep them in production. The H2 + H3? very possibly gonna get axed.

They already axed the H1.....they ended production two years ago.

- Justin

[jola]

Stopping production on items that lose the company money seems like common sense to me.

[redbanditZ28]

I guess they'll have to call them Bummers now or B2's. Okay, I know that was stupid. Couldn't resist.

But don't those things realistically get only like 8 mpg on city streets? I never looked up info about them. Does anyone know their city/highway mpg?

[Tru2Chevy]

2008 H3 mileage:

3.7L / A4 = 14/18
3.7L / M5 = 13/18
5.3L / A4 = 13/16

The H2 is said to average 10/15 (but I think that's pretty optimistic).

- Justin

[maroman88]

yea but i loooove the way the H2's look :drool: if gas were cheap and they were cheap, id have one

[redbanditZ28]

I often wondered how long it would take with the gas issues at hand before something would happen with Hummers or any SUV for that matter. I mean even most hybrid SUVs aren't getting that much better fuel economy than the non-hybrid versions.

But everyone always tells me that anyone who can afford a Hummer in the first place can afford high gas prices. But even cheap frugal rich people would probably get annoyed after a while when they are paying a crap load to fill their Hummers for long trips to shore houses and other places fancy people go to.

Boy I picked a good time to buy a new Hyundai Accent that gets 35 mpg versus my old Caprice which was getting near 18 mpg. But I miss my old. big, comfortable 92 Caprice. If I got in an accident with the Hyundai, I'd be toast. That Caprice road beautifully though. I miss my Chevy. Still got the Camaro though.

[BigAls87Z28]

I often wondered how long it would take with the gas issues at hand before something would happen with Hummers or any SUV for that matter. I mean even most hybrid SUVs aren't getting that much better fuel economy than the non-hybrid versions.

Hybrid Tahoe gets same EPA rated gas milage as a 4cyl Camry.


Hummer's time was up when CAFE requirements went to 35mpg by 2020.
This recent rise in gas prices are only sealed the deal.

[redbanditZ28]

I am not trying to disagree with you about the SUV Hybrid's gas mileage, but this website says otherwise.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/findacar.htm

If you look up Chevy Tahoe hybrid, it only gets 21 city and 22 highway. Not much better than the regular non hybrid version. But that is just one website. When I went to Chevrolet's website, I couldn't even find where they post the info about the MPG on their Hybrid SUVs. But I thought I even remember looking at the MPG sticker when I was last at a Chevy dealership last year and thats what the sticker said, somewhere near 21 city and 22 highway. But like I said, this is only one website, so I could be wrong.

[qwikz28]

he means city mileage i believe on the hybrid tahoe

[BonzoHansen]

I am not trying to disagree with you about the SUV Hybrid's gas mileage, but this website says otherwise.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/findacar.htm

If you look up Chevy Tahoe hybrid, it only gets 21 city and 22 highway. Not much better than the regular non hybrid version. But that is just one website. When I went to Chevrolet's website, I couldn't even find where they post the info about the MPG on their Hybrid SUVs. But I thought I even remember looking at the MPG sticker when I was last at a Chevy dealership last year and thats what the sticker said, somewhere near 21 city and 22 highway. But like I said, this is only one website, so I could be wrong.

http://www.chevrolet.com/tahoe/specifications/

It is a huge %% jump -

Vortec 4.8L V8
*2WD 14/19
Vortec 5.3L V8
*2WD 14/20
*4x4 14/19
Vortec 5.3L V8 FlexFuel when running on E85 fuel
*2WD 11/15
*4x4 11/14
Vortec 6.0L V8 for Tahoe Hybrid1
*2WD 21/22
*4x4 20/20
Vortec 6.2L V8
*2WD 12/19

So the best gas motor I see is 14. (20-14)/14 = ~43%.

Did any other hybrid come close to a 40% improvement over it's gasoline powered counterpart? I don't think so. But don't compare a 6000+ pound full size truck to a prius.

Damn, I sound like Al. GM sucks! There, I feel less dirty, lol. I kid Al, I kid. :)

[Tru2Chevy]

he means city mileage i believe on the hybrid tahoe

Yes, the hybrid tahoe gets the same EPA rated city mileage as the 4 banger camry. Of course, it's a $50k truck - but it's still a step in the right direction.

Here's some video of a comparo test between the Tahoe Hybrid and an E85 Silverado: http://www.discoverychannel.ca/shows/showdetails.aspx?sid=6338

There are 4 parts to the video, each one a different test. I watched this on TV over the weekend.

- Justin

[redbanditZ28]

ehh, I don't know, thats still pretty bad gas mileage. I realize we are talking SUV terms here, but thats not really impressive that it is only getting that much better gas mileage than a nonhybrid version. Can't they do a weight reduction or something for better fuel economy? Or did they do that already?

It is really rediculous how much more car companies charge for the hybrid version than the nonhybrid versions of cars. What's their rationale? Because we know that you are going to save money on gas later down the road, we are going to bend you over now and mack it to you up front with costs? Or is there something I am missing with hybrid technology that makes a hybrid car cost so much more? I am not trying to be a smartass or anything, I am really asking because I never understood that.

Also, how reliable are hybrid engines? I never see anyone driving priuses around at all, not the Honda versions of the full hybrids.

[redbanditZ28]

Also, I realize Chevy did a good job with making a big SUV get better gas mileage, but I just have to wonder with our current state of technology that any car manufacturer can squeeze more than what people are getting out of a hybrid SUV. Or maybe they want it that way. But hey, I don't know jack about Hybrid engines. So don't go too tough on me here. lol.

[Tru2Chevy]

I see Priuses left and right, but my commute is on Rt1 and I work at a weather lab (read: full of global warming hippies).

Not every hybrid is through the roof on costs - I think the Saturn Vue hybrid is actually one of the cheaper models in the lineup.

- Justin

[qwikz28]

vue hybrid and escape hybrid are good american gas sipping suvs. :)

[redbanditZ28]

I guess its just what we see on the roads we travel. I travel rt 18 by new brunswick mon-thurs and I can honestly say I never see any priuses or whatever the honda version is of that Prius. I mean I see civic hybrids and other hybrids, but just not the full on hybrids like Priuses. I shocking still see mostly full size pickups and SUVs on gridlock traffic on 18. Same for traveling rt 22 near N. Plainfield or traveling the parkway north. I go to these highways a lot during the week and I never see these full on hybrids.

What is the reliability like on hybrid engines? Does anyone know? I've always wondered if they require any more or less maintenance than a regular engine.

[redbanditZ28]

Do you all believe that anyone who could afford Hummers or big SUVs in the first place can afford to pay for the rising gas prices? OR do you think that the owners eventually will get fed up and get rid of their SUVs?

[damon_Z]

You know, if gas prices were like $10 a gallon, then buying a Tesla Roadster would be a good idea. I mean, it has a 0-60 MPH of 3.5 seconds, is 100% electric, costs less than $0.02 per mile to operate, and can travel over 200 miles before you have to recharge its lithium ion battery. The bad thing is that the car costs $109,000, but like I said, if gas costs $10 a gallon, then maybe it's better investing the money in this car instead of putting that same money into a house. And the more you drive with it, then the more you'll save. I'm thinking about it.

[JL8Jeff]

The problem is the price of electric will be going up because the cost of natural gas is going up and most electric plants use natural gas to generate electricity. Now if we had some new nuclear plants being built to help reduce electric costs it might be a good alternative. The problem with trucks/SUV's is that they kept making them bigger and heavier. Compare the S10, Ford Bronco II, 4Runner, Pathfinder from back in the 80's to their equivalent today and there's no comparison. Put today's modern engines in the smaller vehicles from the 80's and there's a much better chance to see 30 mpg.

[WildBillyT]

The problem with big trucks and SUVS is that majority of the people who own them got them for convenience and not necessity.

I also think a lot of the people who have them also could barely afford them in the first place.

[mtnhopper1]

News about any auto manufacturer discontinuing large trucks and SUV's, because of high gas prices is always good news. There will be less of those monstrosities on the road and in the parking lots, giving automobile and motorcycle drivers more space, more safety, and better vision. We'll also see a further drop in gasoline demand at least here in the United States.

... and (hopefully) a drop in a demand for fuel will cause Big Oil to lower retail costs of gas (i.e. stop gouging us) or (GULP!) build a refinery in N America (or rebuild the one in Texas that went down in Katrina) so that they can actually lower their production costs by reducing dependence on foreign refineries or by lowering product transportation costs.

[Knipps]

The problem is the price of electric will be going up because the cost of natural gas is going up and most electric plants use natural gas to generate electricity. Now if we had some new nuclear plants being built to help reduce electric costs it might be a good alternative. The problem with trucks/SUV's is that they kept making them bigger and heavier. Compare the S10, Ford Bronco II, 4Runner, Pathfinder from back in the 80's to their equivalent today and there's no comparison. Put today's modern engines in the smaller vehicles from the 80's and there's a much better chance to see 30 mpg.

but look at why all the modern cars are heavier, req'd safety features and then all the other CRAP people pile on on top of the standard features