car won't crank...again!

[quasar34]

ok guys so I'm having trouble getting my 89 trans am (305 tpi, at) to start.. let me explain the background on the situation.. for the last month my starter has been acting funky (id have to hold the key to the on position for about 5 seconds before solenoid on the starter would engage). Then about 2 weeks ago, almost everytime I would goto start the car the solenoid would engage for like half a second then disengage and it would take me about 5-6 tries before it would engage enough to turn the motor over..

so 3 days ago, i get some gas, goto start the car (all the dash lights and whatnot lit up) and I get nothing..(I didnt even hear the solenoid on the starter attempting to engage at all). So i get the car towed back to my house and replaced the starter thinking it was the root of my no start problem... I was wrong, and the car is acting exactly the same (all dash lights glow, but the starter doesnt engage).. anyone know where I should start diagnosing?

[NastyEllEssWon]

start at the cables from the battery to the starter...check them for frays or shorts...or melted pieces

[Tru2Chevy]

I don't know much about the system, but maybe VATS?

- Justin

[alamantia]

yeah do you have a VATS key, try your spare key

[quasar34]

I do have a VATS key, and I tried my spare and it did the same thing. My mechanic changed the ignition switch and got me new keys about a year ago.. Also, I forgot to mention in my previous post that it seemed a little difficult to turn the key to the off position right before this started to happen (I had to put a little umphhh into it to get it to turn off, don't know if thats coincidental or not but I figured it may relate)

I will check the cables from the battery to the starter tomorrow after work.. Thanks for the quick replies guys it's appreciated.

[maroman88]

i had that problem with the cable being loose once, the car would randomly shut off, hapend once in the left lane on rt17 (werent u in the car with me? lol) and again later that night in new milly. i didnt have ur original problem tho....

[sweetbmxrider]

check for power to the starter with the key in the crank position

[alamantia]

Did you check the ground to the chassis

[Stevoone]

If the key was hard to turn it may be something with the ignition switch. I've had them melt down before and have also had similar problems with them. Should be on the mid to lower part of the steering column.

[deadtrend1]

how about the blade fuse thats near the battery. I think that will cause it not to crank also.

[sweetbmxrider]

1st check to see if you are getting power to the starter while cranking, then everything else

[quasar34]

ok, i got out of work late again tonight so i'll most likely get to tinker with it a little tomw and sunday so i'll check what you mentioned.. also, if the VATS is messed up would the fuel pump still prime when I turn the key to the on position?

[quasar34]

ok, so i checked my battery, its fine... i also checked power to the starter and im getting 12-12.5 volts.. i checked power to the starter while cranking and got 0... now this is making me think it's my VATS.

[Stevoone]

A lot of info here on the VATS system http://www.thirdgen.org/vats_passkey_system .

[quasar34]

ok, i checked that site out and i checked the ohms at the 2 wires coming down the steering column and got 521 so the VATS checks out ok... where should i go from here??

[Stevoone]

What position was the key when you tested it? When you turn the key the wires twist a little inside the column. I've also had them act up by moving the tilt on the steering wheel. If its not an issue with the key I would check the ground control circuit from the Vats module to the Starter enable relay. If the ground circuit is not working correctly move towards the Vats module. If the ground is working move towards the relay.

[quasar34]

we tested it with just the key in the ignition and with the key turned to the on position.. it came up with 521..

[Stevoone]

If you disconnect the starter enable relay and measure resistance to ground on terminal B while you have the key turned to "start" you should have continuity. You could also use a test lamp connected to B+ and if the lamp turns on its the same thing. If you have continuity or the test lamp turns on the problem is with the relay. If you don't have continuity the problem is with the module.

[quasar34]

ok so the starter enable relay checked out ok... so we moved onto the ignition switch..we checked the wires going into the ignition switch (they were hot) and coming out we got nothing. so now i believe the culprit is the ignition switch.

now, i have a couple of questions.. if there was a problem with the neutral safety switch, would that override the ignition switch? also, how big of a pain is it to replace the ignition switch? any tips or tricks?

[maroman88]

matt, ive done it and have one layin around

[sweetbmxrider]

i just did one the other day. you need a steering wheel puller and the other U-puller tool to get the lock washer back on to hold the clock spring thing down. other than that, some screws for the multifunction switch, the pivot for the blinker, and a screw for the ignition switch. note how everything lines up, especially for the horn wire. otherwise your wheel will be off. Napa has the switch for under 30

[quasar34]

soo me and my dad ran a wire from the battery to the starter enable relay and got her started.. so now i definitely know the ignition switch is the problem. thanks alot guys for all the advice, it was greatly appreciated