Do you feel like I do?

[WildBillyT]

No, not the Frampton song.

All of these posts about the ZR1, new Camaro, and new Challenger have got me thinking. I am guessing I'm in the minority here. Even though I like all of the new models I just don't see them as something really unique or special. I don't really see myself as running out to buy one.

I guess the thing is that I know that they aren't really "exclusive" in that anybody with a good credit rating can go out and buy one. Same thing with some of the Italian and German cars. They don't really strike me as special because you don't need to do anything out of the ordinary to have one other than write a check. Usually I pass right by any of the new, relatively stock cars at a car show due to lack of interest.

Does anybody else feel like this?

[Untamed]

I can understand the near feeling of "blah" when you contemplate the cars. Part of it may be the exposure they get long before they are built. The sense of anticipation and wonder at the emergence of something "different" is gone, with all the spy shots, magazine articles, etc.

Gone are the days when we are left, as teenagers, imagining ourselves in something just out of reach. Now, like Bill said, all you need is a checkbook and a good credit rating. If that spark of wonder and excitement about a performance car could return, you might feel excited about something like the Camaro. It really is a rise from the ashes... after two years of constant exposure.

In short, the unveiling is anti-climatic.

[SteveR]

Yea I know how you feel. I think most cars that come out today have no real creativity in their design. If you take somebody that grew up in the 50's or someone that knows those era cars, you can show them a picture and they can tell you exactly what it is, because they had style, creativity, individuality, personality, and they were inspiring, and they all had their own style, not like today where everybody copies everybody else and everything looks the same. Now I look at cars that are coming out now and over the last decade and they all look the same, no flare, no lines, boring. There are of course a few that come out that really look good, like the Sky, HHR, etc., but on the whole, very drab and boring. I do like the whole retro muscle car phase though, as I really like the originals and I like what Ford, Chevy, and Mopar have done to improve and modify the old designs. And yes, there isnt any real exclusivity with the factory cars, but Roush, Saleen, etc. are making very low production numbered cars for that exclusivity factor, plus you really have to hand it to Mopar for stepping up and getting factory involvement back into drag racing in the stock/super stock level for the first time in 40 years for any manufacturer.

I think if Chevy has any brains at all they will quietly offer a COPO deal like in the 60's where you can special order something like an LS9 equipped V6 bodied 2010 Camaro, which would be both exclusive, and incredibly badass. Word is that Mopar is doing that with the Challengers where you can special order one wit the 392ci 525hp crate motor in it from the factory.

For the European cars, there are a few that are really nice. I think the new Audi RS6 with the twin turbo V10 making over 600hp will be nuts, and you cant order them in the US so if you go over there and order it and ship it back, that'll be exclusive. I also always liked a lot f the smaller European cars. Driving over there is so much different, you can rent a car and hit the back roads and fly around mountainside twisties all day long without ever seeing another car. In Germany and Austria they have a good scene with people doing tasteful mods to the smaller 4cyl cars and really making them fly. The Opels, Rovers, etc. are really big there. You can always get one of those special Porsches (I forget the company that builds them, but they're to Porsche what Roush is to Mustangs), or those special order MBs, etc. Yea, money is the key factor though, as is with everything in this paper driven world.

[WildBillyT]

You can always get one of those special Porsches (I forget the company that builds them, but they're to Porsche what Roush is to Mustangs), or those special order MBs, etc. Yea, money is the key factor though, as is with everything in this paper driven world.

I think you mean RUF.

[SteveR]

I think you mean RUF.

yea that sounds right. My old neighbor had one and it didnt look all that much different than a stock 911, but man that thing flew. And the owner of the company takes each and every car out to the Autobahn before it gets shipped and personally verifies the top speed of that car and puts it down on paper and includes it in the owners manual :D

[qwikz28]

No, not the Frampton song.

All of these posts about the ZR1, new Camaro, and new Challenger have got me thinking. I am guessing I'm in the minority here. Even though I like all of the new models I just don't see them as something really unique or special. I don't really see myself as running out to buy one.

I guess the thing is that I know that they aren't really "exclusive" in that anybody with a good credit rating can go out and buy one. Same thing with some of the Italian and German cars. They don't really strike me as special because you don't need to do anything out of the ordinary to have one other than write a check. Usually I pass right by any of the new, relatively stock cars at a car show due to lack of interest.

Does anybody else feel like this?

kind of. i feel like the styling of those cars are right now. other cars are more timeless. it has me curious as to whether GM will be able to sell the camaros that are at the end of their model run; same for the challenger. the vette maybe not so much, but i feel like the maro and challenger, while great cars, are all hype. what happens when the hype dies?

on the other hand, i can barely distinguish the old g35 from the new one and they have no problem selling old ones or new ones. MB had a 6 month wait on the CLK the year they were planned for redesign.

[JL8Jeff]

To me, it's more of a feeling like "cool car" but no way I would spend more than $25K on anything new. The way people lease everything nowadays it really does take away from the uniqueness. And they are all mass ordered by the dealers with similar options. You can't really custom order your car now without paying full sticker for it which is ridiculously high. I think the interweb has caused us to see everything interesting way too quickly so when the car does hit the streets, it's already played out! :mrgreen:

-

[SteveR]

on the other hand, i can barely distinguish the old g35 from the new one and they have no problem selling old ones or new ones. MB had a 6 month wait on the CLK the year they were planned for redesign.

thats a great point, certain car companies have amazing customer loyalty. MB is one, BMW is one, and Subaru is another. I think what it is is that the customer feels like they are apart of something, unlike Ford, where you fee like you're ordering a burger at McDonalds and you're done. The aforementioned companies show interest in their customers, organize local and national events, send out news letters, etc., whereas Ford does nothing, except maybe get your name wrong on your paperwork and take forever to fix it and do so with an attitude. Because of manufacturer involvement in their customers lives, they build a large loyal customer base that trusts the companies choices and continues to purchase their products. They understand that money spent on marketing and events will return from cars purchased in a much greater amount. For some reason American car manufacturers dont really get that.

[ar0ck]

I think a lot of these new cars have lost their magic because they aren't very unique. They are clones of a car thats been offered elsewhere for a while, or its an improvement upon an existing platform. I'm not trying to take away from these cars, but wheres the originality.

[BonzoHansen]

I think if Chevy has any brains at all they will quietly offer a COPO deal like in the 60's where you can special order something like an LS9 equipped V6 bodied 2010 Camaro, which would be both exclusive, and incredibly badass. Word is that Mopar is doing that with the Challengers where you can special order one wit the 392ci 525hp crate motor in it from the factory. I'd like to see that. But give the costs of emissions certification I am not sure hey would. Those things did not exist 'back in the day'.

[SteveR]

I'd like to see that. But give the costs of emissions certification I am not sure hey would. Those things did not exist 'back in the day'.

thats something to think about, but the motor already exists and is legal in the ZR-1, so it cant be that hard I dont think. I personally think that that right there would swing buyers over from the Challenger, Mustang, etc. Just imagine rolling up to a light next to a nice shiny new V6 Camaro, only to have it molest you in a cloud of smoke and leave you there sucking your thumb.

[BonzoHansen]

thats something to think about, but the motor already exists and is legal in the ZR-1, so it cant be that hard I dont think. I personally think that that right there would swing buyers over from the Challenger, Mustang, etc. Just imagine rolling up to a light next to a nice shiny new V6 Camaro, only to have it molest you in a cloud of smoke and leave you there sucking your thumb.

If I understand it correctly they have to completely recertify it is even one part changes. Exhaust manifolds & cat placement, for instance. At least that is how it was described to me.

[12secondv6]

It is true.... once the dodge neon was no longer made.... I felt the auto industry has lost all heart and soul :(

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

No new muscle for me,not at 4 bucks a gallon...havent decided on what I wanna do yet...Either buy a LT1 and have a modfest or trade in my dd and get a new turbocharged cobalt ss...

[Jersyboyy]

I kinda feel the same way im afraid tho I do like the new challenger alot, and I beleive the camaro has potential but their cars that you think to your self "is this even going to be nastalgic in 25 years?"
Now for 38k a used Maserati (23k miles clean title) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Maserati-Corsa-Maserati-Corsa-Spyder-Silver-Red-NAV-F1-18s-Skyhook_W0QQitemZ170239787021QQcmdZViewItem?hash=i tem170239787021) will always turn heads now, or in 25 years just as a old but pristine lambo does.

Here an even sicker one for 40k (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___2005-Maserati-Gransport-Best-Buy-WOW-A-Steal_W0QQitemZ220259073051QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20Truc ksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220259073051#e bayphotohosting) just using this car as an example or what I get goosebumps over these days. Like the old camaros and novas and chevelles when I was a kid.

[NastyEllEssWon]

i think the aussies are doing things right down there...

ie holden v8 sport ute (el camino) and fords awesome falcon.
those cars seem special to me because they have high performance
versions of everyday cars. i think if chevy brings out some awesome
ss models things would fizzle a little bit more. i also think that their
higher models need more distinguishing options only available on their
trim.

the way a regal and a gn distinguish each other side by side. thats what
is missing.

[SteveR]

i think the aussies are doing things right down there...

ie holden v8 sport ute (el camino) and fords awesome falcon.
those cars seem special to me because they have high performance
versions of everyday cars. i think if chevy brings out some awesome
ss models things would fizzle a little bit more. i also think that their
higher models need more distinguishing options only available on their
trim.

the way a regal and a gn distinguish each other side by side. thats what
is missing.

speaking of the awesomeness of Aussie motorsports, Dodge has a strait 6 hemi that makes 300hp down there :)

[sweetbmxrider]

im pretty pumped.

[GP99GT]

well...i woke up this morning with a wine glass in my hand. whose wine? what wine? where the hell did i dine?

[SteveR]

fishing line in the Rhine for my valentine.

[Tru2Chevy]

I think if Chevy has any brains at all they will quietly offer a COPO deal like in the 60's where you can special order something like an LS9 equipped V6 bodied 2010 Camaro, which would be both exclusive, and incredibly badass. Word is that Mopar is doing that with the Challengers where you can special order one wit the 392ci 525hp crate motor in it from the factory.

The biggest issue I see with that, is that there is no way that it could be done "quietly" in this day and age.

- Justin

[BigAls87Z28]

thats something to think about, but the motor already exists and is legal in the ZR-1, so it cant be that hard I dont think. I personally think that that right there would swing buyers over from the Challenger, Mustang, etc. Just imagine rolling up to a light next to a nice shiny new V6 Camaro, only to have it molest you in a cloud of smoke and leave you there sucking your thumb.


First off, I understand what you are trying to say, but we are talking MILLIONS of dollars.

1) The cost of doing this, to have GM spend the money to engineer, build, design, and implement an engine like the LS9, over the additonal cost of building a few more, would make a LS9 Camaro cost more then a Z06 vette, and GM would still take a hit
2) I dont want to piss in anyones corn flakes or stomp on thier dreams...but COPO cars sold like ice in Alaska. Whats his face orded 50 of them (since NHRA said 49 needed to be produced in order to consider it for whatever super stock class) and he sold 2. The other 48 cars sat on his lot.
Why? Who in thier right minds would pay 8 grand for a Camaro that, loaded with a 375hp Big Block convertable, might have came in under 4-5k?
Or a Vette big block that was priced around 6k?
8 grand for a Camaro that had zero options, no ac, no radio, nothing...but an engine.
That **** wont fly anymore. What will fly are people like Mallet who threw LS2's and LS7's in Solstices.
People like Lingenfelter who can pick up your Corvette at BG, ship it to the shop, built it up, and drop it off at your house.
SLP who back in the 80's offerd financable performance products for Fbodies and Vettes that would be dealer add ons.
GM is also doing that with the accessories, so is Ford, so is Dodge. Everyone remembers the "ricer" Red clay Camaro picturs that had the big wing, wheels, and all that stuff. A lot of that stuff will be customizeble for Camaro. GM will offer aftermarket Corsa exhaust, CAI's, as well as wheels and interior parts to make the car yours.



As for the original poster, eh...I can see where you are coming from. I think it has to do with the overall mystical era of what cars were, to what cars are now. IMO, I dont think cars were any more special back in the 60's then they were today. Only now, its more precise, its measured, its calculated. Performance is expected, no longer just a cool model. When Mustang came out, it wasnt popular cause you could get a 428 in it? It was popular because it was a cool car, something above average.

[SteveR]

The biggest issue I see with that, is that there is no way that it could be done "quietly" in this day and age.

- Justin

yea thats true with all these interwebs.