Your 2008 ECN Review - The good, the bad & the ugly

[BonzoHansen]

Hey all.

Now that we are past our big event for the year, let’s hear your comments. What are your thoughts? Organization, venue, car show classes, race classes, whatever is on your mind. This way when we start planning 2009 (soon) we have additional thoughts & comments to consider and we can see what we can and cannot accommodate.

One thing I don’t want to change - the great bunch of people that came out this year and made the best of it all. The number of people that hung out despite the rain was tremendous. You are the people that make all the work involved worth it. Thanks-

I’ll start – I hate rain. We can’t fix that but maybe a rain date can be planned as well.

The bracket guys asked if we could kill the T&T guys and maybe do this after points season. I don’t know if we can do anything about it, but we will do the research.

[ar0ck]

Now this is nothing against the car show winners, they all had beautiful cars that deserved their awards but limiting previous year winners.

[camaroracer1992]

I agree with pro90rs, there is no reason to change anything, I go to many larger events such as carlisle, super chevy, etc. I know for a fact there are cars that are receiving the same awards year after year and that is because of the quality of the car they own. 2 yrs in a row I have been beat out at Super Chevy by a $100g IROC camaro with a $12g leather white interior and you know what, that guy deserves it becuase of the quality, I dont cry about things like that, but then again that is on a points judged system.
Personally, if people are sick of losing to the same car, then dump cash into the cars, I have had my car 9 years and when I started I lost many times at shows/racing, that part of me not winning is what compelled me to build the nastiest/nicest thing that I could afford.

[Mike]

Oh and another thing is not one person from the show field came up to Joe or I with any compliments to our camaros at all. It seems people are not happy that we bring our cars to show them off and compete. Why does everyone have to be hatin? We are there for a good time just like everyone else.:nod:

who's hating? just because people didn't come talk????? they weren't hating too much to vote for you for EVERYTHING. i don't agree with some of the votes, but that does not take away from the fact you have a nice car.

when i got out of my car after a run, i walked up to Melissa as she was finding out that they were gonna push up the judging because of the rain...so i had to run around looking at all the cars.....im sorry i couldn't stop by and hang from your balls

[BonzoHansen]

Yeah, we're all just thinking out loud here! No one is hatin'!

I disagree as well...raise the bar, don't lower it! But I understand the thought process.

Last year we talked about limiting multiple winners. Such as Best of show can't win best camaro. But IMO that cheapens best camaro, no?

[Mike]

we talked opposite.....

best camaro MUST also be the winner of one of the generations, then best of show MUST be either the best camaro or best firebird.......how can somthing be the best of show if its not the best of its class

[BonzoHansen]

That too. Many conversations with many people.

[Tru2Chevy]

On that note Mike.....first and second in best of show (both 3rd gen camaros) were also first and second for best Camaro. But neither won or was runner up for best 3rd gen (another Camaro won that)....

- Justin

[Mike]

see......that makes no sense, the 2 cars deserve it, but......it makes no sense

[Pro90rscam]

who's hating? just because people didn't come talk????? they weren't hating too much to vote for you for EVERYTHING. i don't agree with some of the votes, but that does not take away from the fact you have a nice car.

when i got out of my car after a run, i walked up to Melissa as she was finding out that they were gonna push up the judging because of the rain...so i had to run around looking at all the cars.....im sorry i couldn't stop by and hang from your balls

I guess not so much with the hatin' comment, and you are right about the voting as to where they must not have been hating to vote for my car. I am trying to say that it seems it would have been cool to have someone come up and talk. I just did'nt know what to think if other car owners thought that if you bring in a pretty nice car they think possibly that you are stuck up and in this case I am not. Just nice to chat with someone about the car I built, and thats what shows are about.

[Mike]

I guess not so much with the hatin' comment, and you are right about the voting as to where they must not have been hating to vote for my car. I am trying to say that it seems it would have been cool to have someone come up and talk. I just did'nt know what to think if other car owners thought that if you bring in a pretty nice car they think possibly that you are stuck up and in this case I am not. Just nice to chat with someone about the car I built, and thats what shows are about.

hopefully next time we will have either sun or umbrellas, and get a chance to do that

[Pro90rscam]

hopefully next time we will have either sun or umbrellas, and get a chance to do that


That sounds good. I will be there again next year "weather permitting" and stop on by and we'll chat. I just would like to talk with people from the club and show or race participants and have a good time. Sorry to stir up controversy, I am not about that.

[BonzoHansen]

I barely talked to anyone! Damn being put to work! I did get to talk to the guy next to me with the great 80Z. That is why you guys need to come to the monthly meets - hang out BS & bench race!

Mike, it makes sense this way: The voters themselves decided tht BOS and the other awards coud be split up. Good enough for me.

[ar0ck]

So by that logic the same 2 cars are going to win everything year & year again? Who else will want to go if everyone knows the outcome?

[camaroracer1992]

some suggestions:

1. possible dash plaques for the racers/show contestants to say the first 50 or so people
2. possible to arrange cars by generation (I know its mentioned every year and its kinda hard to do).
3. maybe a possible swap meet/flea market for used parts??
4. a show and go class that runs 3 passes at the strip and points from the car show
5. burnout contest?

[BonzoHansen]

1. Actually on our list!
2. We tried this year. 1g/2g went to the left of the pole, 3/4 to the right. W/O advance reg we just don't know who is coming.
3. Also on the list. Are you looking over my shoulder, lol.
4. Cool idea - esp if we can unload the T&T guys
5. Awesome!

[camaroracer1992]

So by that logic the same 2 cars are going to win everything year & year again? Who else will want to go if everyone knows the outcome?

guess ill stay home next year???

:-?

[BonzoHansen]

No way! Everyone else needs to step it up!

[Tru2Chevy]

guess ill stay home next year???

:-?

You need to get that beast on the track....let Don fight with the rest of the show guys ;)

- Justin

[Mike]

i think it has been stated in the past that the track could get in trouble for a swap meet if they let us set up with out tax id's or somthing along those lines

[Tru2Chevy]

i think it has been stated in the past that the track could get in trouble for a swap meet if they let us set up with out tax id's or somthing along those lines

I don't think I heard anything about that before. We were trying to get it together (last minute) for this past year actually, and they didn't mention it....

- Justin

[EchoMirage]

I guess not so much with the hatin' comment, and you are right about the voting as to where they must not have been hating to vote for my car. I am trying to say that it seems it would have been cool to have someone come up and talk. I just did'nt know what to think if other car owners thought that if you bring in a pretty nice car they think possibly that you are stuck up and in this case I am not. Just nice to chat with someone about the car I built, and thats what shows are about.

youre upset because no one came to talk to you? did you sit by the car the entire day wearing a sign saying "this is my car, talk to me"? i showed my car, and i didnt sit next to it all day. i walked around, i WENT to people and talked to THEM instead of sitting and waiting for it to happen. if you saw someone checking out the car, why didnt you go up to them and initiate? its a CAR show, not a PEOPLE show. not to mention there were alot of cars to look at, and not alot of time to sit and bullshyt with the rain coming.

i also find it interesting that the two people saying nothing should change about the rules are the two people who won best of show. so by your logic, we should ALL blow 70k into our cars before next year or not bother showing up, hmm?

you should also realize that people in this club, who arent in the inner cirlce or have been to EVERY meet for the past 5yrs, dont know anyone by their face. they know them by their car or username. so just because someone recognizes your car, doesnt mean they can recognize you. i saw you get your trophy. i couldnt pick you out from a lineup today if i had to. ive seen 'blownTA's car several times....have no idea what he looks like. i can pick out 'transamkid's car any day of the week, but after meeting and talking to him twice, i still wouldnt recognize him. i had the only gold 78 Trans Am there, parked maybe 5-7 cars down from you two. i was also there last year, been to monthly meets and seen some members at cruise nights, bought/sold parts, etc. do you know who i am? would you recognize me from anywhere?

[79CamaroDiva]

From the tracks standpoint:

Show/Swap is possible, but commercial vendors need commercial insurance. Regular average joes can come and set up and sell their garage. I dont think we worry about tax ID's, your business is your business and if you're making money and want to be legal, use your SSN.

As far as getting rid of the t/t guys, can't happen. I believe we ran this event 2 years as a solo event, and each year was promised a turnout in the 300+ range and wasn't delivered. Test and tune is our bread and butter, so if we can't have one for the day, we have to make up for it somewhere, and that would be raising the f-body nats price. This year worked out well with having the classes a few dollars more than the gate fee, so the club could actually try to make some money to pay out its own classes.

[camaroracer1992]

echo, i personally could care less who looks, or votes for my car or let alone who talks to me at those things, i am there to look at racing and other cars. i have won alot of awards 2 yrs in a row yes ill admit that, but its still a competition.

on a side note though, i see how your logic is with saying about how the rules of not changing things are more our perceptions since we win and i can totally appreciate that, but if you were to change the rules of a show then youre just as well off assigning a number to a car and pulling it out of a hat to pick a random winner.

[sweetbmxrider]

well maybe making the awards set up so someone who wins one isn't necessarily entitled to another. more diversity in the awards rather than the basic best overall this and such. its more work but you might get some more happy faces. disclaimer: i have never been to a car show so i could be totally wrong!

[Pampered-Z]

I don't see any reason to stop people from voting on what they like and want to win.

Remember the Nats car show is subjective to the person viewing the cars, and that the voting is purely by the people and not by a set of judges assigning points. Why would you ask people to vote if you plan to ignore them and give the win to someone else? Or worst yet chase people away from the event if you are telling them they won't be allowed to win?

Best Camaro and Firebird in class doesn't automatically mean it would win best of show, but logically it should.

My Suggestions:

A) What about next year list the 2008 winners on the ballot. If people still feel it deserves to win again let them vote for it, if THEY want to give their votes elsewhere they can?

B) From the pics it appears some of the cars had their hoods closed. I've been in a few shows where the hood and trunk had to be opened. I think that would make a nice addition as you can see how detailed the entire car is. (I HATE seeing a car with a dirty engine!)


My questions: ( Yah, this is a bad timing too ):

A) Did the car show participants feel the price was good? Would you pay a few dollars more to enter if there were more awards to be won?

B) How did the Racers feel about the cost? Would you pay more if there was more money or maybe round money paid?

C) Were you considering running the buy back round?

*** What did you think of the racing classes? **

[CHRIS67]

One thing that I would have liked to seen (and I'm sure Island Dragway too) is more of a spectator turnout. Just about everyone there was showing or racing their car. It would have been nice to seen some advertisement, even if it was local to the track to bring more people into the show and spread the love.

[BonzoHansen]

I have heard more than once from people regarding what they considered high spectator fees.

[CHRIS67]

Different venues for the show and for the strip then?

[slugger27nj]

I thought it was a good day overall, minus the rain of course. I entered my car in the show not expecting or hoping to win anything, but knowing the money went to the club and seeing it lined up with all the others was enough for me. We also got to see some good racing, and some not-so-good racing (i.e. that obnoxious sounding red honda or whatever the hell that thing was). We stuck it out to the end not to see if I won anything, but to see who did. There were many beautiful cars there, and everyone should be proud whether you won something or not.

Sorry I wasn't that outgoing that day, but I played 7 games (in the outfield) in a tournament the day before. I was whooped, and spent most the day planted in my chair behind the car....haha.

[Tru2Chevy]

One thing that I would have liked to seen (and I'm sure Island Dragway too) is more of a spectator turnout. Just about everyone there was showing or racing their car. It would have been nice to seen some advertisement, even if it was local to the track to bring more people into the show and spread the love.

In the past we have had a larger spectator turnout. I think we have had threats of rain all 4 years we have held this event, but this year was the only year it rained, and the radar sure didn't look promising. I'm pretty sure that was a major factor in the low car & people count.

Last year we had 20-25 more cars racing in our classes, and another 30 cars in the show, plus additional spectators.

One of these years we will get a weekend with a good weather forecast....

- Justin

[CHRIS67]

Not to Jinx us but maybe we should look into a new sponsor for next year. :-)

http://www.shamwow.com/index.html

[BonzoHansen]

It was raining south of the track well before it rained at the track.

[FESTER]

Overall good day! My car was in the show I dindn't win any awards unlike last year, The only issue I had I seen cars with road grim on rockers,bugs guts,brake dust on wheels,hoods closed,tinted windows (with them up) how are you to judge cars that are filthy and all closed up. These cars should not get any awards! My opinion. You need to do some cleanup on your show and open it up.

Camaroracer1992 and pro90rscam ( I dont know them but remember their cars) were both sweet and deserve thier awards.

SHOW/SWAP would be good for next year, I did sell some things on Sunday like a whole box of NOS parts:nod:

[sweetbmxrider]

why do you allow anything to race? its like saying anyone can show? kinda weird

[79CamaroDiva]

why do you allow anything to race? its like saying anyone can show? kinda weird

it was along side a test and tune day. only f-bodies were allowed in our classes, but until we can draw 100+ racers, on top of show cars and spectators, have to use a track day thats open to the public.

[EchoMirage]

B) From the pics it appears some of the cars had their hoods closed. I've been in a few shows where the hood and trunk had to be opened. I think that would make a nice addition as you can see how detailed the entire car is. (I HATE seeing a car with a dirty engine!)


i purposely kept my hood closed/mostly closed because a huge point in having a 2nd gen Trans Am is the hood bird. cant really see it as well and get the full effect with a closed hood.

[sickness]

i will comment as well .i think the show has gotten 100% better over the last few years .i have been to them all with my camaro and without .my first time showing was not fun at all. i don't even think i found the ballot box that year to turn in my voting sheet.so i took some time off from bring my camaro to the show again till this year.i have to say i think the show and the way it is run is 100 times better.and had my best time ever at this show .there are not to many all camaro or f-body only shows in the area .so i try to attend them all .i think the price to show the car is more than fair i would pay a little more to enter the show no problem.the show seems to be a 4th gen show for the most part .i think more print adds would help that ..there are alot of cruise -in paper that allow you to place adds for free .i know most people in the world have a computer ,but not every one .most promoting for this show seems to talk place on message boards were most 4th gen guys hang.i think more older camaro -firebird would come if they saw a flyer at a car show,cruise,etc...i do think that a camaro and firebird class would be best there were alot of nice 4th gen f-bodies that could have took home an award or maybe expand the classes to top 4 ...that my only advice otherwise i thought the show was a great event .so thank for the great time and the trophys i was totally floored to bring home 3rd for best of show and runner up best 4th gen.thanks clint

[edpontiac91]

That sounds good. I will be there again next year "weather permitting" and stop on by and we'll chat. I just would like to talk with people from the club and show or race participants and have a good time. Sorry to stir up controversy, I am not about that.

No doubt about it, you stirred up some comments. Why do you have to post up the FACT that you spent $85,000 on your car, and nobody came up to you because you think you have the best car. What are you going to do if someone beats your car at a show that ONLY spent $8,500 on their car. Cry foul because YOU think it is better. WE ALL think we have great cars, and some of us do our best with what we have. Your idea that you spent the MOST money on your car does NOT give you the bragging rights to being the best. THAT right goes to the judges and the other owners who feel you may or may not have GOOD TASTE in what you paid for! :nod:

[BonzoHansen]

Ed, stop crying, lol.

[79CamaroDiva]

FWIW, i didn't put any money in the car I put in the show (red 67 rs/ss)... I just ran down and grabbed the car out of the trailer. He wasn't there and I know the secret to start it ;)


I also didn't win anything with it, because this year there ended up being some verrrry nice 1st gens, and this was the first year I thought about stealing the car for the day :)

[camaroracer1992]

i definitely agree with the hoods, and trunk open, to me you can see the total view. As for the bird on the hood, i have the same issue with my airbrushing on there. I usually leave the hood half cracked so you can see the hood as well as the engine.

[Pro90rscam]

No doubt about it, you stirred up some comments. Why do you have to post up the FACT that you spent $85,000 on your car, and nobody came up to you because you think you have the best car. What are you going to do if someone beats your car at a show that ONLY spent $8,500 on their car. Cry foul because YOU think it is better. WE ALL think we have great cars, and some of us do our best with what we have. Your idea that you spent the MOST money on your car does NOT give you the bragging rights to being the best. THAT right goes to the judges and the other owners who feel you may or may not have GOOD TASTE in what you paid for! :nod:


Ok, so I posted that about what is into it and I agree with you that it does not make it the best car for how much is dumped into it. I have been to many shows with this car and I have been beat out by others that do not have as much into theres as mine has due to the way the shows are run. I will tell you this that I do not do very well at participant judged shows compared to professional judged shows in which the car does well. When I do not place at a show or am beat by someone else, yeah it is bothersom, but I get over it and look forward to my next shows. Basically when I posted about how much is approximately into the car I did not mean it to sound like I have the best car, because there is always one out there better. I wanted to be cool with everyone and the thoughts I posted was just thinking out loud and that is the way I felt when I heard the comment of previous winners being limited to 1 trophy. It is what it is and sorry if my previous post sounds this way.

[BonzoHansen]

With that, let's please stay constructive....

[sweetbmxrider]

it was along side a test and tune day. only f-bodies were allowed in our classes, but until we can draw 100+ racers, on top of show cars and spectators, have to use a track day thats open to the public.

understood

[Blackbirdws6]

First off I think the event went well considering the rain. I have a few ideas to break up the show field a bit but I don't think it's right to purposefully hurt multiple trophy winners. Some cars are just that good and depending on what the judges/crowd are looking for, a different winner may result.

The logic is tricky to get around considering that the best of show should also win best camaro/firebird and best in their generation. The only way you can get more diversity of winners is going to be limiting the number of wins a single car can achieve. Limiting a car to one trophy and whichever is more "prestigious" could solve this. Such that Best of Show can only win that and nothing else.

It's tough anyway you cut it but I've had a great time going to shows just for what they are....to show my car. The trophy is honestly icing on the cake for me. Sure we all love our cars and want to win something but I enjoy going around, talking with people and seeing what they did with their car.

It wouldn't sit right with me if my car won because a car "better" than mine won last year and can't win consecutive years.

[Pro90rscam]

First off I think the event went well considering the rain. I have a few ideas to break up the show field a bit but I don't think it's right to purposefully hurt multiple trophy winners. Some cars are just that good and depending on what the judges/crowd are looking for, a different winner may result.

The logic is tricky to get around considering that the best of show should also win best camaro/firebird and best in their generation. The only way you can get more diversity of winners is going to be limiting the number of wins a single car can achieve. Limiting a car to one trophy and whichever is more "prestigious" could solve this. Such that Best of Show can only win that and nothing else.

It's tough anyway you cut it but I've had a great time going to shows just for what they are....to show my car. The trophy is honestly icing on the cake for me. Sure we all love our cars and want to win something but I enjoy going around, talking with people and seeing what they did with their car.

It wouldn't sit right with me if my car won because a car "better" than mine won last year and can't win consecutive years.

I totally agree with you on what you said, well put. It would give other people and their cars a chance for an award. You never know year in and year out what kind of cars will be rolling into the show or event. I myself believe that winning multiple awards can not go on forever!:nod:

[Pampered-Z]

You never know year in and year out what kind of cars will be rolling into the show or event. I myself believe that winning multiple awards can not go on forever!:nod:

Agreed, although I lean more towards racing, it still the same. If you don't keep upgrading someone will be better. Just when you think you're done, you're not!


I want to make one point that I don't think everyone understands? Well, maybe you do, but it's still worth stating:

The NJFBOA puts this event on with a very low budget, the club sponsors and what donations we can get, and allot of donated time. Starting with Island dragway basically letting us take over the track for free. If we had the money for an outright track rental, or car count high enough to get exclusive use of the track things would be different. So having T~n~T cars there is just something we can't control right now. I work at a dragstrip and know what it cost. And we really have to thank and appreciate Island dragway letting us do this each year. They would be loosing money with just us there. Trust me, there are very , VERY few tracks that would let anyone do this, you would need to rent the track, and the cost wouldn't be like a track rental for 10 cars. You need allot of money to take over a track and run an actual competition event, full staffing and prep'd lanes is allot of overhead!

The car show works the same way. We would love to give out a bunch more trophies and add classes and other special awards. We do as much as we can with what we have.

A big THANK YOU! needs to go the sponsors and companies that gave us what they did. Although the car count wasn't what we wanted, we did have some money, awards, and lots of other goodies this year! That's a very positive thing as each year we are attracting more interest and getting more backing.

If we could just get the weather to cooperate I think this event would really grow!

[CHRIS67]

OK, new guy here with attending only 2 F body shows so go easy on me.

What if we had the public vote on each generation like what has been happening, but we have some of the founding members/moderators here vote on the best Camaro and best in show out of the top cars that the public picked?

[JL8Jeff]

I thought it turned out well considering the weather. We obviously lost quite a few people who saw rain before they even left their house. I thought about the cost and it's a little more than a normal car show, but when you think about the fact there is racing to watch as well, it's not a bad price at all. Camaros at Carlisle is not cheap and there's no racing going on. I didn't get to talk to as many people at the car show because I was watching the racing time trials. It was the first time I made it to the track this year so I wanted to watch some racing. Dam Hondas! As for the quality of cars in the show, when you see a nice, clean, well done car, it helps you identify what you still need to do to step it up. Limiting awards is a nice idea, but unfortunately it would get subjective to the show staff to figure out which awards to take away from a specific car. Maybe if we set a level for each award/class it would help explain why a particular car did not win something. I think the people judging realized they were voting for a certain car as best of show and therefore wanted to vote for another car in that particular class. I actually liked that there were less classes this year because it takes time to go around the cars to give an honest vote and I wanted to watch some racing and talk to people in the pits. More classes means more awards which means it might raise the cost so consider that. 3rd gen class was incredibly difficult to judge because of the quality of cars and I think that says a lot right there. If we get enough cars in the show we might be able to break it into mostly stock vs modified. I like the location and the fact that there is a car show and racing. A swap meet for people to sell used parts was considered but should be a strong possibility for next year. If can get enough people to come out then maybe we can chase those dam Hondas off the track! :lol:

-

[BonzoHansen]

OK, new guy here with attending only 2 F body shows so go easy on me.

What if we had the public vote on each generation like what has been happening, but we have some of the founding members/moderators here vote on the best Camaro and best in show out of the top cars that the public picked?Because of the inevitable accusations of favoritism. That is why we have no judging now, just popular ballot, to prevent that. We got enough headaches, lol.

We've kicked around a Power Members Select award which most likely will happen next year. We could do some other one-offs as well - mod award, sponsor award, etc.

I should have won an award for 1st time a site Admin had a car at the Nats.....

[CHRIS67]

Because of the inevitable accusations of favoritism. That is why we have no judging now, just popular ballot, to prevent that. We got enough headaches, lol.

We've kicked around a Power Members Select award which most likely will happen next year. We could do some other one-offs as well - mod award, sponsor award, etc.

I should have won an award for 1st time a site Admin had a car at the Nats.....


I don't think anyone would complain. Without you guys we wouldn't have the F body nats, or this site for that matter. Who else here is with me? :headbang:

[brp88gta]

i agree, some special awards by other people other than the public would be nice and break it up a bit

[79CamaroDiva]

I don't think anyone would complain. Without you guys we wouldn't have the F body nats, or this site for that matter. Who else here is with me? :headbang:

stick around for a while and you'll realize that everythign that goes wrong is our fault :lol:

[BonzoHansen]

Ain't gonna happen Chris! :lol:

[ramairjohn2000]

guys this was one of many shows i go too but my first with you guys.
1. good times and i show to just show, have fun, and meet new people, and even though i drove for an hour for what i considr a small turnout ihad a good time
2. tnt doesnt matter, the main event is the show in my opinion and the track is a bonus to drag on if you want to
3. showing your car with the hood open or not, trunk etc, is owners preference, me personally unless you have some crazy underhood stuff i like it better with the hood closed and my interior is your standard stock black ws6 interior big deal, so i dont think it should be pints deducted or that?
otherwise good times i think the biggest thing we could do is get more sponsorship, exposure and just get more people there and open it up to our fellow gm tech enthusiasts? either way good job and i look forward to next year's-
john the pennsylvania guy

[Pampered-Z]

I should have won an award for 1st time a site Admin had a car at the Nats.....

Well, it was when I was pre-mod... But I took home Best Engine, Best Engineered and 3 overall!

Plus that's breaking the rules, Mods aren't allowed to have running F-bodies!

[79CamaroDiva]

Well, it was when I was pre-mod... But I took home Best Engine, Best Engineered and 3 overall!

Plus that's breaking the rules, Mods aren't allowed to have running F-bodies!

he did say admin... ;)

[BurninrubberGT]

suggestion for next time-

a stock class, or non restored class (1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen), for people who spend their time keeping the paint/engine/interior in good condition that has been there since it left the factory.....for people who cant dump money into a new paint job and drop in a new engine and interior 8-)


but it was a great show(minus the rain), a ton of awsome f-bodies, and cant wait for next year

[edpontiac91]

I know that this may be beating the Dead Horse to Death:horse:, as I realize that the date has to do about when the club was founded, but what if the club was founded in the middle of Winter. Your chances of getting a rain free date in the middle of August is really tough due to the fact that T-Storms pop up almost every other day. If the show could be held in September or better yet October, you would get great Fall weather, better racing temps and of course much more comfortable conditions for both the show cars and the racing crowd. I think the fee for spectators should be lower. You might get more people to come and the plus to that(for the show crowd)is that those people would get a ballot to vote for their favorite car. You could also try to get people who run the Trans Am Nationals(in Dayton, Ohio)to advertise the Event in their area and also the crowd that put on the Event in Saratoga Springs. Getting pictures in High Performance Pontiac and a Chevy magazine will also bring up the level of it being a QUALITY SHOW N' GO event and get more cars involved. Just my :2cents:

[EchoMirage]

i seem to remember tim saying something about having some sort of joint venture with pontiac enthusiast at last years show.......not much came of that, in terms of advertising or anything.

[Tru2Chevy]

The NJFBOA puts this event on with a very low budget, the club sponsors and what donations we can get, and allot of donated time. Starting with Island Dragway basically letting us take over the track for free. If we had the money for an outright track rental, or car count high enough to get exclusive use of the track things would be different. So having T~n~T cars there is just something we can't control right now. I work at a dragstrip and know what it cost. And we really have to thank and appreciate Island dragway letting us do this each year. They would be loosing money with just us there. Trust me, there are very , VERY few tracks that would let anyone do this, you would need to rent the track, and the cost wouldn't be like a track rental for 10 cars. You need allot of money to take over a track and run an actual competition event, full staffing and prep'd lanes is allot of overhead!

Just to add to the part of this in bold....I heard comments about this from a few people at the track this year. I think people seem to think that taking over a track for a day would cost the same as your normal track rental. We talked to Atco Raceway about 5 years ago about putting on an event at their facility, and their price quote to us for exclusive use of the track for a Sunday event was over $20,000 (and I'm sure it has gone up since then). At that price, we would need to get 400 people through the gate @ $50 each just to break even, and that doesn't include money for payouts or trophies. Just something to think about when you feel the need to complain about the Test N Tune cars (believe me - I wish we didn't have to deal with them either).



i agree, some special awards by other people other than the public would be nice and break it up a bit

This is something that we are definitely going to look into. Another idea that someone gave to me in person was to only allow the show participants to vote for Best of Show.



a stock class, or non restored class (1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen), for people who spend their time keeping the paint/engine/interior in good condition that has been there since it left the factory.....for people who cant dump money into a new paint job and drop in a new engine and interior 8-)

This is something that we will definitely look into once the show grows. At this point, adding in too many classes just means that spectators have to spend more time voting (which means less time talking to owners about show cars, watching racing, etc).




i seem to remember tim saying something about having some sort of joint venture with pontiac enthusiast at last years show.......not much came of that, in terms of advertising or anything.

Without pointing fingers or placing blame, there were a lot of great promotional ideas that were discussed last fall/winter that could not be accomplished because of events in Tim's personal life. We will be working around any such issues for all future events.

- Justin

[blown69rat]

Ok, the one guy on the site who does NOT have an f-body...time for me to chime in!! LOL

From what I understand, Tim, Justin, and the rest of the guys do the best they can with what they have, and from what I understand, they do a pretty good job. I've read every suggestion in this thread, some are good, some are not, and some are just WAY out there!! Here's my thoughts on what has been said, my knowledge of the show (although, I am going with 2nd hand info since I don't attend), and maybe some helpful info from someone who runs shows:
1. Participant vote is just that. If people vote for one car to win multiple awards, it's gonna happen every year. If you leave it participant vote, maybe change that up a bit...Participant vote goes for "x" awards. "Specialty" awards like best in show, best engine, etc are prof. judged
2. EXPAND!!!!!!!! In this I mean (like what is said), get the word out there more. Try and get BIG names involved (which is not hard to do). Play around with the name of the show (East Cost F-Body Nationals), get sponsors to pay for the awards.
3. door prizes and goody bags. I haven't seen anything mentioned about this. Do you guys have them??
4. Modify the awards. In my PERSONAL opinion they need to be tweaked a bit.
5. Open the car show up to possibly other vehicles. DON'T TAKE OFFENSE ON THIS ONE. If you look at quite a few tracks around, when they do a "all chevy show", their turnout is 250+ cars!! What I am saying is actually doing a show within a show. Run an all chevy show (or gm show) and run the f-body nats within it. Basic car show and awards for everyone else, the f-body nats guys would have different awards, etc. This way you could easily double the car show count and possibly the spectator turnout. By doing this, you end up with more money for the track, more money for other stuff.
6. Like Joe said, run a true street type event for the racing guys with awards for quickest, 10.0. 12.0, etc.
7. Maybe give a $50-100 payout to the guy racing with the best reaction time.
8. How many cars were racing, maybe doing awards for top 10 race cars. This would have to chosen by those running the event.
9. Maybe have a daily driver class for everyone who does drive their car everyday. This would seperate the occasionally driven show cars from the guys who drive their car everyday but also like to show them off.

I have lots more ideas that could or could not help. But for now, this can give you guys something to "chew" on. With that being said, change is always good, sometimes for the better and sometimes not. Some of these suggestions might help in one way but hurt in another, so take them as you will.
Brian

[Untamed]

I really enjoyed the show and racing and didn't mind the spectator cost. Island has done a lot for the club, so spending just a little more to help them out is just as good as supporting the club financially. The track folks had the place set up well, with two lines at the gate to get in (when I arrived after 12 noon) so didn't take but a few minutes to get through.

The NJFBOA tents at the front gate and by the track were easy to find, though handing out the bags at the front tent should go a little smoother. Folks rolling in need to get their bags at the front tent and move on, don't linger and chat, holding up the line. You can always walk back and talk.

There was more space between cars on the show field, making pictures a little easier for catching front-quarter shots. If it's possible, I'd still like to see cars backed at an angle. I also liked where the cars ended - well before the bridge. Safer that way, as folks wont be walking around the end car, looking at it and not paying attention to traffic going by.

While I agree more advertising is helpful, I think we can all surf the net and drop messages on other F-body boards about the event. Some folks in the club do that well, but we can all help out by adding traffic to the threads. Print media is up to the mods / admin and the budget available. To prove some advertising worked, I had a chance to talk with a family that JUST moved to NJ from Canada. They'd heard about the event and stuffed four adults and a dog into a third gen Camaro, so the word does get out. The Camaro still had Ontario plates on it. :nod:

The only real negative experiences I had was the rain (duh) and that damn red... whatever the hell it was, in the TnT crowd. There's loud exhaust, and then there's obnoxious. That fool crossed the line. We shouldn't need hearing protection on the show field!

I really look forward to the Nats every year. Kids were disappointed they didn't go, but that allowed me more time to catch up with members, meet some new folks (<86TA>, love those wheels and spoiler!), and watch some racing.

Thanks guys.

[12secondv6]

My suggestion..... me not being sick and having surgery :)

I can't comment on the car show portion... I haven't visited it/ voted as it doesn't hold much interest to me.

For racing.... I'm very happy with the way it is structured.

The track is great, the employees are great...weather is beyond anyones control.

For the people that are complaining..... have you ever set up a huge racing/ car show event? Probably not. I think the admins and everyone involved do a great job at it..... do you realize that they also have lives???? They balence their life and create a great event.... keep up the great work.

Maybe add dodge neons to the event? ;)

[BigAls87Z28]

Overall its good, and for the size we have, we shouldnt get too carried away. If say next year we have some 100 cars show up for show, and 150 cars show up to race, maybe we need to adjust the rules, but there is no sense in making up all these differnet things, and have 20 different classes in racing, 20 different show classes.

I agree that there should be a limit..well, dont want to say limit, but just one winner per class.
Best of Show means its the best car on the block, out of all gens, and all models.
Next would be best Camaro and best Firebird.
Then you can break it down into gens, but I would make engineering, wheels, and engine bay available to anyone.
I would then, if you were gunna go the route of the sponsor awards, open to anyone no matter if they won a NJFBOA award or not. So you could possibly walk away with best Camaro and Jeg's hottest chrome valve stem award or something...

[PolarBear]

If it's possible, I'd still like to see cars backed at an angle. I also liked where the cars ended - well before the bridge.

We tried to get people to park at an angle but it was a little difficult as other vehicles were parking in our area and some people (I dont remember who, nor would I point them out) seemed to have a problem with directions.

My suggestion for next year (from a staff standpoint) would be to get there earlier with every body who may be working there and have a 5 minute talk about who is going to do what. We were a little unorganized and it showed.
I would also say, if possible, to get the volunteers together before the show. Rather than pointing at me at dinner one night and say "you are staff this year" :shock::rofl: We should figure out what we need people to do, and ask people to volunteer. I didnt bring my car this year so I didnt mind helping out, and I got a small token of appreciation :wavey:

[kazman]

I guess its about time I made a comment about the event.

I don't do the show side. I was involved in showing Pontiac's in the '80's and got back into the shows with my wife's MGB in the late '90's. Same issues then as now. Always issues with the show classes, popular vote vs judge, stock vs modified classes, owner with the deepest pockets, red convert vs the 4 door cab, etc. I did notice that a lot more were showing than racing. I think that each year the show will get better and more organized. Each year the show is evulated and changes are made. Show people, please give constructive ideas and ones that don't directly benifit you. Thinks of the big picture.

On the racing side. I was happy this year with the classes. I think the rain really kept many away. There was only 1 in the real street tire class. The classes were merged and he was forced to run with the race tire cars. I think he should of received a win for his class then allowed to race in the the other class if he wanted. I really though that the true street tire class would attract a bunch of cars. ??????? Maybe have a pre-race "bracket racing class" for beginners so they feel more confortable in running the car. I did feel a little rushed and confused in the pits waiting for my class to be called. I almost missed a time shot. Maybe an earlier gate time to let the group get organized and to let the participants know what's going on. Higher payouts would attract more bracket racers which in turn would discourage newcommers. Perhaps a trophy only class for street and drag radial tire cars (BFG, Nitto, and Mickey Thompson Street Radials). If you do want to attract more racers schedule the event after bracket points are done (after September). A fall meet may bring out more cars.

Last thing is a THANK YOU for all the hard work done by just a handful. I always look forward to this event. See ya next year for an even better event. Oh yea just once I would like to see good weather on the Friday Mustang vs F-body race.

[twin99]

Anyone have any pictures of the show side?

Was it anything like the TA nats in Ohio?

[Tru2Chevy]

Anyone have any pictures of the show side?

Was it anything like the TA nats in Ohio?

http://www.alexqphoto.smugmug.com/Events

- Justin