Fresh top end build...motor wont start.

[Jersyboyy]

Ok guys I need some advice I have spent 4 days trying to get this motor working properly and I feel like im getting close but it WONT START.

I had Jewboy over today helping me out alot, timing set perfectly theirs spark. When you push the throttle gas shoots out and I crank it, it sounds like its starting up but let off the ignition and its dead.

Jewboy said while im cranking it gas isnt shooting out the carb unless you keep pumping the throttle.

Is it the carb? If so what could cause that?

Im really at a loss here and want to get this thing running. :( seriosuly any help is really appreciate guys thanks.

[The Fixer]

Could be the valve lash is too tight, and by now if you've been pumping a lot of fuel into it, you may have fouled spark plugs and/or fuel in the combustion chamber.

[Jersyboyy]

Loosen up the rocker arms and check the spark plugs anything else? Thanks

[79CamaroDiva]

well, while your cranking its not gonna shoot out, it should really just dribble out until you push to the floor.

Trying some starter fluid might help diagnose it too.. or might just give it the kick in the ass it neads.

[spina74]

yea dude definately check your valves, if you want to make it easier run a compression test if you have low compression its that the rockers are too tight.

[Jersyboyy]

Rockers are probally too tight but talking it voer with my buddies dad...we think the cam timing is completely off. I never lined up those two dots on the cam and crank sprockets DOH! Im ripping off the timing chain cover tom morning and redoing that and loosening the rockers.

[WildBillyT]

If I remember the facts correctly:

Gas is shooting out of the carb because you are using the accelerator pump on the carb when you are stomping the pedal to the floor.

Vacuum is supposed to draw fuel from holes on the carb into the intake, it does not squirt fuel unless you actuate the accelerator pump. The acc pump's purpose is to shoot fuel during high demand applications to prevent a lean spot in the carb's operation.


Check the timing gear dots for sure.

Is it even turning over? Or does it just crank? If it is just cranking I think it's a timing/valvetrain issue.

[crainholio]

I never lined up those two dots on the cam and crank sprockets DOH!


Ouch.

Experience is a cruel teacher, some folks prefer to read the manual instead.

Good luck dude.

[Jersyboyy]

The motor is turning over, sounds like its started untill you let go of the ignition key. Im sure those dots need to be aligned, i just hope it didnt bend a valve or something. Tho I probally would have heard that from the beginning.

[BigAls87Z28]

I was right where you were about....2 months ago.

[bubba428]

DOH hey man live and learn, no better teacher than experience. I'll bet you never do that again.

[Featherburner]

DOH hey man live and learn, no better teacher than reading up on and learning what you are doing before you start wrenching. I'll hope you never do that again.Fixed.

[79CamaroDiva]

i just hope it didnt bend a valve or something.


or all of them... good luck!

[LTb1ow]

Bah, we all make mistakes, I forgot to hook up the coolant crossover tube when I rebuilt mine, don't feel so bad. Just fix it and get the SOB running.

[bubba428]

Fixed.

not really...cause if you read up you might remember the 1st time...but if you **** up...you'll NEVER forget that

[LTb1ow]

The man has a point.

[deadtrend1]

not really...cause if you read up you might remember the 1st time...but if you **** up...you'll NEVER forget that

I rather research/study first and not screw up. It's cheaper that way

[bubba428]

I rather research/study first and not screw up. It's cheaper that way

very true, I'm glad I knew that before I built my engines...but are you might get it right the first time, maybe the second, maybe forever. I guaran-damn-tee ya he won't don't do that again though. :mrgreen: I've F-d a few things up but after the 1st time you remember that, and watch for it the next time. Like when I did my cam I couldn't figure out why the cam was stuck. then I realized the fuel pump pushrod was blocking it, I won't ever forget that after going nuts trying to figure it out once.

[79CamaroDiva]

everyone learns in their own way.. some ways are just more expensive than others..

[Jersyboyy]

I would have heard a valve getting bent, but anyway i redid the cam and crank gears and i put everything back together filled it up with more oil and coolant and tried cranking it again and its worse than lastnight. Last night it sounded like it was starting now its just poping and backfiring out the exhaust and the carb.

[79CamaroDiva]

you're gonna have to readjust the timing again i believe

[Jersyboyy]

oke doke will do.

[The Fixer]

you're gonna have to readjust the timing again i believe

Check the timing, check the firing order. It almost sounds like the distributor is 180* out. If that's the case, there's a temporary, easy fix. Pull the #6 sparkplug wire off the distributor, install #1 there, and then follow the firing order around from that point (18436572). Good luck, you'll get it!

[Jersyboyy]

I popped the cap and the thing is pointing to number one cylinder and thats where spark plug wire number one is at. If i move the dizzy a little each way it gets worse or starts to backfire more.

[79CamaroDiva]

switch 1 and 6 like steve said.

and did you ever check the valve lash? do you haev feeler guages to do so?

[V]

you may have the timing set to cyl. #1 at TDC but on the exhaust stroke, not the compression stroke. meaning dizzy is 180* out. very good possibility.

[Jersyboyy]

Ill give it a shot tom when the battery finally charges back up. No feeler gauge either.
Any one wanna stop by and take a look at this thing with me? I have used up everything i have left in my pocket but maybe i can give you some parts or something. Id appreicate it.

[79CamaroDiva]

you cannot adjust valves without feeler guages and expect everything to stay together long.

[bubba428]

sure you can....It takes a while to get 100% and if you move em too much the nuts get worn out(I hit mine with a sledge when that happens, hold the jokes).

[79CamaroDiva]

or you can buy a set for 7.95 from snap on and do it right the first time

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=&item_ID=71&group_ID=1122&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

[BonzoHansen]

you cannot adjust valves without feeler guages and expect everything to stay together long.

Why, is he using solid lifters?

[Jersyboyy]

Why, is he using solid lifters?

Not using solid lifters? More like hydraulic...

[BonzoHansen]

I've never used a feeler gauge adjusting valves w/hyd lifters...but I'll wait to hear from the more knowledgible folks.

[Featherburner]

0 lash plus 1/4 to 1/2 turn more = no need for feeler gauges.

[JL8Jeff]

Sounds like dizzy is 180 out like mentioned. We all learn the hard way with this stuff, that's what makes it so much fun and why the old people offer advice. :lol:

-

[Jersyboyy]

Redid the timing and firing order 2 times just to double check it, cranked it over and shes screaming!! Im so happy, now I only let it run for less than 30 seconds for a few reason. Neighbors are having guest over and I want to go over all the rockers again to get them dialed in close to right before I let it run for break in. THANK YOU GUYS A TON!!!

[LTb1ow]

Woot! and wtf is a "feeler" gauge? Your engine doesn't have points does it?

[sweetbmxrider]

:w00t::cheers:

[LTb1ow]

So you gonna bring it to the meet tonight?

[ZeroCool8891]

FINLY Congrats man.

[Jersyboyy]

What meet tonight? And i drove it down the street on idle if i tap the throttle it bogs, the tranny kickdown cable isnt setup either(donno how to do that) and i need to the put the ypipe on and get it welded as well as a few other things. Any meets next week IM TOTALLY DOWN!!

Im so excited!! No more whie puffy smoke out the tail pipes car ran for 40 minutes around 2k rpms and im changing the oil now again. Its just finally coming along!!! WOOT

[JL8Jeff]

Nice! Nothing like getting it running again. Now you need to figure the carb out before you run around and run too lean and overheat again. Get that y-pipe done right as well with no leaks.

[Jersyboyy]

yup yup no lean conditions this time i got a holley 750 on it this time!! Alot more fuel than my old edelbrock 600.

[Jersyboyy]

If anyone has a facebook you can go here to see the video.
http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php#/video/video.php?v=1028281472605

[Jersyboyy]

Iv been reading alot tonight about wiped cam lobes. I must have spent betwen 2 days, 30 minutes just cranking the motor over trying to start it. Now that iv finally got it started, how would I know if I wiped a loe on my new cam? What would it sound like or do? Their was alot of time their it was cranking and not firing...def couldnt have any oil splash on the cam to lubricate it. Im hoping that the worst is not true in this case.

[BonzoHansen]

Congrats. At this point don't worry about the cam. If there is an issue it will tell you eventually.

...the tranny kickdown cable isnt setup either(donno how to do that) ...What kind of trans? If that is a TV cable (700R4), get it adjusted soon or your trans will suffer.

[crainholio]

Iv been reading alot tonight about wiped cam lobes. I must have spent betwen 2 days, 30 minutes just cranking the motor over trying to start it. Now that iv finally got it started, how would I know if I wiped a loe on my new cam? What would it sound like or do? Their was alot of time their it was cranking and not firing...def couldnt have any oil splash on the cam to lubricate it. Im hoping that the worst is not true in this case.

Congrats on getting it running!

If you lubed the cam before installing it you got no worries about wiped lobes. If you put it in dry, prepare for another lesson.

[LTb1ow]

If you installed the cam bearings the right way and lubed it before you stuck the cam in, you should have no problem.

[Jersyboyy]

O i lubed the hell out of the cam and lifter bottoms before putting it in. Used rottella t with a zinc additive as well.
As for the tv cable im not sure if I need an additional bracket for the holley 3310 carb or not. Who can adjust that properlly for me, any local trans shop?

[Jersyboyy]

Videos on streetfire.net

<a href="http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Camaro-with-new-parts-up_178939.htm"><img src="http://px2.sfstatic.com/handlers/GetSizedVideoThumb.ashx?id=178939&w=180"/><br>Camaro with new parts just started up. </a> (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Camaro-with-new-parts-up_178939.htm)

<a href="http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Camaro-running-part-2_178940.htm"><img src="http://px2.sfstatic.com/handlers/GetSizedVideoThumb.ashx?id=178940&w=180"/><br>Camaro running part 2</a> (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Camaro-running-part-2_178940.htm)

[91DropTop]

your neighbors love you right now

[Jersyboyy]

Iv tried adjusting the carb as much as I can but after 1/4th throttle it just loses acceleration and backfires out the carb. Carb problem? Took the valve covers off all rocker arms are pumping like they should should im guessing the cam isnt the problem.

[Tru2Chevy]

Have you set the timing yet?

- Justin

[crainholio]

Or just to be clear, how much timing advance did you adjust it to without the vacuum connected to the dist?

[Jersyboyy]

Your speaking arabic dude...

Or just to be clear, how much timing advance did you adjust it to without the vacuum connected to the dist?

[//<86TA>\\]

what he is asking is where is your timing set? and did you set it with the vacuum advance disconnected. your issues seems to be timing related

[crainholio]

Your speaking arabic dude...

I'm speaking Engine dude, and it's a language you'll want to learn.

[BonzoHansen]

You did put a non-computer distributor in, right?

[JL8Jeff]

You had backfire problems before the headgaskets went and with the other carb so it sure seems like a timing/spark or fuel supply problem.

[Pampered-Z]

You did put a non-computer distributor in, right?

That is an important question!

How did you set the timing? Have you verified it is advancing?

I think you really need this:

http://www.lategreatchevy.com/product.asp?pf%5Fid=517170&dept%5Fid=224

http://www.lategreatchevy.com/product.asp?pf%5Fid=517171&dept%5Fid=224

[Jersyboyy]

I used the same distributor that was on this motor before, its a non computer controlled ac delco.
As soon as my funds recover from this motor ill def be picking up one if not both of those books, and another block to get working on.

[79CamaroDiva]

you still haven't answered the timing question though...

[Jersyboyy]

Yea i really dont know anything about timing. I thought after you set the distributor you just move the distributor around untill it sounds right. I donno how to set base timing and total timing and stuff i just started reading up on that stuff.

[Kat]

sounding right and being right are two different things~! If I were closer I'd swing by and show ya.