car still overheats

[madness410]

so i finally got around to swapping headgaskets on my car. drove it around yesterday and was surprised it climbed up to 230 within less than a half hour of driving it.

i know i had a thread like this before but now the head gaskets are swapped, radiator fluid was flushed out, air dam is on there, gutted the thermostat so the coolant is flowing at all times, coolant is fresh, radiator is full.

water pump, and radiator have less than 500 miles on them (or so im told by the previous owner)...maybe the carb runs lean on my car

i have 2 electric fans one in front one in back of the radiator, i havent tried messing with those yet but i remember one of them went out, the wiring was loose, and the temp jumped to 250.

if anybody needs pics or something i can easily get some. thanks for any help or suggestions in advance

[BonzoHansen]

get rid of the front fan

are the fans coming on?

[Fire_Chicken92]

IDK but if you figure it out I'm stealing you and you are gonna fix mine too! lmao

[madness410]

get rid of the front fan

are the fans coming on?

both of the fans come on yes. would that be smart though? there was an instance where one fan went out and the temp climbed really high. ill give it a shot.

[chrisfrom nj]

it could be running too lean

[Jersyboyy]

Def could be running lean.

One face in front & one behind the radiator?

Make sure their not spinning in opposite of each other and that their both coming on when they should.

Does it steadely climb up while your driving, or does it just shoot up their after awhile?

[NastyEllEssWon]

could have a crack in your head and your leaking compression into the cooling system. did you change your radiator cap yet????

[JL8Jeff]

Put a thermostat in it, you need something to slow the flow of coolant so it will get cooled down while it's in the radiator. You still might have some timing or carb issues as well.

[91chevywt]

I recommend backing off timing, and richen it up a bit and see if it changes any. You know the cooling system is flushed, and without a thermostat in there it should definetly be running cool if the motor is stock/pretty much stock. I'm not too sure about mileage on the motor either, but mineral build up in the cooling jacket from lack of coolant maintenance or using hard water could be hurting your cooling system efficiency.

Another thing, not sure how your fans are set up, but the one in front of the rad should be pushing air back towards the motor, and the fan on the back (inside the engine compartment) needs to be pulling air through the rad.

[WildBillyT]

What are the specs on the engine again?

[madness410]

What are the specs on the engine again?

well what do you need to know? everything is a new aftermarket part pretty much, rebuilt from a 70's style block, flat tapped cam. small block 350 motor

[madness410]

could have a crack in your head and your leaking compression into the cooling system. did you change your radiator cap yet????

the heads have less than 500 miles on them

[Tru2Chevy]

the heads have less than 500 miles on them

That doesn't matter....overheating can warp and crack brand new heads.

I also say you should ditch that front fan. As long as the rear one is working, the front one is only getting in the way of the air trying to come through.

You should also get a thermostat in there.

- Justin

[IROCdan330]

Put a thermostat in it, you need something to slow the flow of coolant so it will get cooled down while it's in the radiator. You still might have some timing or carb issues as well.

agreed.

and the whole sandwich the radiator with fans and more fans thing is not needed. These cars need airflow across the front of the rad, it comes from under the car, a front fan only impedes this airflow.

[Slow96LT1]

make sure the fans are not fighting each other

[madness410]

ok ok...UPDATE...i havent had a chance to really fix this problem, (yeah yeah, madd late yeah yeah) havent had time. but im on break and girlfriend-less so i have all the time in the WORLD.

heres the update: bought a new radiator to slip into the camaro, didnt do it. i saw the front fan and thought of everyone on here, took the front fan off...drove around till it hit 160, flipped on the fans. and it went BACK DOWN to 140. so im like...:scratch: ...im like did i just solve this problem and it was a fricken front fan all along? i drive for a good 20-25 minutes and the water temp slowly climbs up, slowly climbs up, slowly climbs up, to about 200 and i shut it off.

the front fan was obviously partially the problem. but i still have no idea what it can be. i have a new radiator ready to go if need be..

would a thermostat really help out? back in september i gutted it to try and fix the problem. thanks in advance everybody

[JL8Jeff]

Yes, the coolant needs to stay in the radiator long enough for it to cool down to do it's job. Put a thermostat back in and try it out. Was the fan up front a pusher or puller?

[sweetbmxrider]

200 isn't that hot really. i believe my fans come on at a stock temp over 220 degrees

[madness410]

Yes, the coolant needs to stay in the radiator long enough for it to cool down to do it's job. Put a thermostat back in and try it out. Was the fan up front a pusher or puller?

i will try a thermostat tomorrow...u think i should get a 160* or lower?

[madness410]

200 isn't that hot really. i believe my fans come on at a stock temp over 220 degrees

really? same in my brothers vette...but that is the water temperature right?

[madness410]

oh and at like 210 it starts to steam up...out of personal experience lol.

how does a thermostat work actually...if coolant is hotter than 160 a 160* thermostat will open, but since the coolant is hotter than 160* wouldnt it just be the same as a gutted thermostat? please dont call me a retard if thats a dumb question...

[WildBillyT]

oh and at like 210 it starts to steam up...out of personal experience lol.

how does a thermostat work actually...if coolant is hotter than 160 a 160* thermostat will open, but since the coolant is hotter than 160* wouldnt it just be the same as a gutted thermostat? please dont call me a retard if thats a dumb question...

Probably at 212*.

A thermostat will open at its set temperature and it provides a restriction in the cooling system so that the coolant flows slow enough to do its job and pull away heat.

[madness410]

arrite i see. so a regular 160* thermostat will do?

[LTb1ow]

200 isn't that hot really. i believe my fans come on at a stock temp over 220 degrees

Stock LT1 makes less nasty ozone depleting stuff when its that hot. Not the best for your engine though....

[WildBillyT]

arrite i see. so a regular 160* thermostat will do?

Hmm...

Seems to me that:

A) You have/had a problem with your charging system (alternator w/pulley)
B) You have/had a problem with your power steering system (PS pump w/pulley)
C) You have/had a problem with yoru cooling system (water pump w/pulley)

Is your accessory drive system in good shape? You don't have an underdrive crank pulley or something like that on there, do you? Or a bum idler?

You can certainly try a thermostat. They are cheap and it's one thing to remove from the debug process.

[sweetbmxrider]

Stock LT1 makes less nasty ozone depleting stuff when its that hot. Not the best for your engine though....

ah very true.

[madness410]

Hmm...

Seems to me that:

A) You have/had a problem with your charging system (alternator w/pulley)
B) You have/had a problem with your power steering system (PS pump w/pulley)
C) You have/had a problem with yoru cooling system (water pump w/pulley)

Is your accessory drive system in good shape? You don't have an underdrive crank pulley or something like that on there, do you? Or a bum idler?

You can certainly try a thermostat. They are cheap and it's one thing to remove from the debug process.


hmm that all makes sense. sorry bill but i have no idea what any of those are...im sort of a n00b when it comes to real technical stuff, i just now the bare basics.

[sweetbmxrider]

he means smaller than stock crank pulley or an idler puller, one that simply spins and does not turn an accessory, that is hanging up or putting extra strain on the motor.

basically it seems the belt is not being spun fast enough. very good observation on Bill's part

[JL8Jeff]

My 70 SS396 has a 160 t-stat in it and it will run at 160 in the winter which leaves me with very little heat in the car. In the summer it will run at 180-200 depending on if I get stuck in traffic. But that's a mechanical clutch fan and you should have electric fans that can turn on sooner. Try the 160 and see how it runs. You need a restriction to slow the coolant flow, but you may still have another issue like too much timing or clogged passages. And don't even try to compare to a 93-97 LT1, they are reverse flow cooling so it's a totally different scenario.

[sweetbmxrider]

And don't even try to compare to a 93-97 LT1, they are reverse flow cooling so it's a totally different scenario.

wow, jealous? hahaha yeah it was just ideas getting thrown around

[JL8Jeff]

wow, jealous? hahaha yeah it was just ideas getting thrown around

Nope, I've owned 2 LT1 cars and have no complaints about them. Mine actually ran well and passed inspection on the rollers at DMV and one with a supercharger! But you can't offer LT1 cooling advice to non LT1 cars.

[madness410]

My 70 SS396 has a 160 t-stat in it and it will run at 160 in the winter which leaves me with very little heat in the car. In the summer it will run at 180-200 depending on if I get stuck in traffic. But that's a mechanical clutch fan and you should have electric fans that can turn on sooner. Try the 160 and see how it runs. You need a restriction to slow the coolant flow, but you may still have another issue like too much timing or clogged passages. And don't even try to compare to a 93-97 LT1, they are reverse flow cooling so it's a totally different scenario.

ok i will try that tomorrow. definitely no clogged water jackets, when me and my buddies took the motor apart over the summer to replace the head gaskets checked all of them, they were clean.

[madness410]

will pop a thermostat in tomorrow and check to see if it makes a difference. thanks for all the help again fellas.

[madness410]

Try the 160 and see how it runs. You need a restriction to slow the coolant flow, but you may still have another issue like too much timing or clogged passages.

i put in a 160 thermostat and it still overheats...i knew it wasnt going to do anything. next stop is the waterpump because the whine is getting louder and louder by the day. but jeff you are saying something about too much timing? can you explain that?

[madness410]

chris from nj also suggested to bleed the air out of the system...i will try that before trying a new waterpump.

[JL8Jeff]

If your timing is advanced too much it will cause the engine to run hotter. Are you sure you don't have any type of underdrive pulleys?

[madness410]

If your timing is advanced too much it will cause the engine to run hotter. Are you sure you don't have any type of underdrive pulleys?

not really 100% sure...as stated earlier im not too advanced with cars i just know the basics...i was wondering what they were though

[LTb1ow]

Well take a photo of your crank pulley...

[JL8Jeff]

I don't know 3rd gens well enough, but I'm assuming it has electric fans. Did you check to make sure the fans are spinning the right direction when they are turned on? Make sure they are pulling air through the radiator and not pushing it from the engine compartment forward. If somebody messed with the wiring maybe they could have reversed them by accident. Other than no coolant circulating, you really shouldn't have a reason for it to start to overheat just sitting there if the fans are working right.

[madness410]

yeah after I think it's the water pump it may not he circulating correctly. I
will post pics of the pulley system later

[LTb1ow]

It has oil right? Does it sip antifreeze or oil?

[madness410]

It has oil right? Does it sip antifreeze or oil?

what do you mean lol...i put oil where theres supposed to be oil, antifreeze where there is supposed to be antifreeze. i may be dumb but im not retarded haha

[madness410]

update: bled the system out completely and thoroughly, got it up to 200*. went at ate dinner, came back down drove it around it sat at 180-190 most of the drive, which is a lot better given the fact it didnt climb above 200 when driving, it was also cold air outside.

when i parked it in front of my house and sat there for 3-4 minutes it hit 200 and was climbing still. i picked up a water pump from jersyboyy and will most likely be putting it in over the weekend...unless there is another simple step i can take before i start ripping stuff apart.

here are some pics of the pulley system

http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q365/kuligojo/IMG_0908.jpg
http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q365/kuligojo/IMG_0909.jpg
http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q365/kuligojo/IMG_0910.jpg
http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q365/kuligojo/IMG_0911.jpg

call the photo police...i suck at taking pictures...

[madness410]

another thing any and all help is greatly appreciated so far everyone has led me to the correct direction. i feel like im really close to solving this problem and im set for spring / summer

[JL8Jeff]

How is the fan attached to the radiator, I don't see a fan shroud?

[madness410]

yeah its an aftermarket radiator. the fan is attatched by a cooling mounting kit...picked it up at advanced. they slip through the radiator fins and can be secured by placing something on the other side.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Wysco/756140/10002/-1

its like that

[sweetbmxrider]

wtf lower hose?

[WildBillyT]

wtf lower hose?

I was looking at that as well.

[sweetbmxrider]

looks like an inner tie rod end boot. i guess its a universal number

[madness410]

idk thats how i bought it, i thought it was normal...whats wrong with it?

[sweetbmxrider]

it appears to be a universal hose from what i can see. look at your upper then look at your lower. if it works, it works.

[camaroAL]

i have the same hose on mine, they work well. u can get them in various sizes

[JL8Jeff]

You should try to locate a decent fan shroud, that could be the difference of the car heating up while it sits. The fan sitting on the radiator like that does not pull the air through as well as it does with a shroud.

[sweetbmxrider]

i have the same hose on mine, they work well. u can get them in various sizes

really? never seen them before.

[camaroAL]

really? never seen them before.

i got it from napa

[sweetbmxrider]

i will have to inquire about them. napa rocks like that.

[madness410]

You should try to locate a decent fan shroud, that could be the difference of the car heating up while it sits. The fan sitting on the radiator like that does not pull the air through as well as it does with a shroud.

anyway i can locate a fan shroud with the fan i have on there or do i need to buy a fan shroud / fan combo?

the fan definately pulls the air through and i bled the system out the best i could it still overheats just sitting there. would a water pump do that? the water definately circulates

[chrisfrom nj]

anyway i can locate a fan shroud with the fan i have on there or do i need to buy a fan shroud / fan combo?

the fan definately pulls the air through and i bled the system out the best i could it still overheats just sitting there. would a water pump do that? the water definately circulates
i have the stock fan and fan shroud complete off the 92 rs

[madness410]

i have the stock fan and fan shroud complete off the 92 rs

i have a stock fan/ fan shroud but will an aftermarket fan cool better?

[chrisfrom nj]

i have a stock fan/ fan shroud but will an aftermarket fan cool better?it should be the same i guess a fan is a fan i have a stock fan on my car it keeps my car cool

[madness410]

it should be the same i guess a fan is a fan i have a stock fan on my car it keeps my car cool

true...my rad isnt from a third gen...its a bigger universal fit radiator. i will try the other fan later this week. the shroud bolts to the metal part above the radiator? do you have pics of yours?

[WildBillyT]

true...my rad isnt from a third gen...its a bigger universal fit radiator. i will try the other fan later this week. the shroud bolts to the metal part above the radiator? do you have pics of yours?

Another thing- is the radiator for a V8?

[JL8Jeff]

Don't fall for the thought that an aftermarket fan cools better. Some aftermarket fan/shrouds will cool better, but the price usually reflects that. Cheap fans/shrouds will probably be worse than stock. My 70 had the stupid flex fan on it when I got the car, and a stock fan clutch and fan fixed the heating up problem. Try the stock fan and shroud if you can get it to fit the radiator. You might be better off with a stock replacement radiator so the stock parts will fit right.

[madness410]

thanks jeff I will try that today if there is enough daylight when I get out of work, I will keep u posted. bill, the radiator is definately for a v8 car.

[Featherburner]

the fan definately pulls the air through and i bled the system out the best i could it still overheats just sitting there.Please define overheats. What temp. are you seeing at idle? What temp. does the fan come on?

[madness410]

I have fans activated by a switch. I turn them
on at 160 because thats when the thermostat opens up. I would drive it around it would be good for 15-20 minutes then. starts climbing. the last few times I drove it around I parked it in front of my house and it went from 195 to around 205 with no sign of stopping so I shut it off.

[Tru2Chevy]

205 is still no where near hot enough to hurt anything. What kind of gauge are your reading the temp from?

- Justin

[Jersyboyy]

Its not overheating untill its at 215-220 some cars will avg 195-205 depending on use just fine.

[madness410]

205 is still no where near hot enough to hurt anything. What kind of gauge are your reading the temp from?

- Justin

what do you mean

[madness410]

205 is still no where near hot enough to hurt anything. What kind of gauge are your reading the temp from?

- Justin

what do you mean? its a water temperature guage. im pretty sure its accurate.

i still havent gotten a chance to swap out the fans maybe that could be the problem right now there is no fan shroud on there.

[Tru2Chevy]

Its not overheating untill its at 215-220 some cars will avg 195-205 depending on use just fine.

Even there it's fine. The stock thermostat is 195, and I don't think the fans kicked on until 215-225. Too much hotter than that, and then you are looking for trouble.

what do you mean

I mean what type of temperature gauge are you getting the coolant temperature numbers that you are giving us from? Are you estimating from a stock gauge, do you have a $5 autozone special mounted under the dash, a nice autometer gauge, etc?

- Justin

[madness410]

Even there it's fine. The stock thermostat is 195, and I don't think the fans kicked on until 215-225. Too much hotter than that, and then you are looking for trouble.



I mean what type of temperature gauge are you getting the coolant temperature numbers that you are giving us from? Are you estimating from a stock gauge, do you have a $5 autozone special mounted under the dash, a nice autometer gauge, etc?

- Justin


i have an autometer guage. the stock guage doesnt work. iirc i remember my car starting to steam up at 210-215

[madness410]

i mean my car is far from stock...a friend of mine has a similar set up and doesnt go over 170

[Tru2Chevy]

Have you pressure tested the system? If it's boiling over at that point it sounds like your system isn't pressurizing.

i mean my car is far from stock...a friend of mine has a similar set up and doesnt go over 170

I'm not saying it should run that hot, just saying that it won't hurt it to let it climb to 215 or 220 to see if it levels off or something like that.

- Justin

[Jersyboyy]

Have you pressure tested the system? If it's boiling over at that point it sounds like your system isn't pressurizing.



I'm not saying it should run that hot, just saying that it won't hurt it to let it climb to 215 or 220 to see if it levels off or something like that.

- Justin

Yea exactly. If its not pressurizing maybe the cap is bad or you have a problem with the water pump. Throw my pump on their and see what happens. If you want to go back to a mechanical fan setup to see if its your fans I may still have my stock fanclutch and fan you can throw on the car too, if not then you can borrow my new flex fan/spacer.

[madness410]

Have you pressure tested the system? If it's boiling over at that point it sounds like your system isn't pressurizing.



I'm not saying it should run that hot, just saying that it won't hurt it to let it climb to 215 or 220 to see if it levels off or something like that.

- Justin

i havent pressure tested the system...you mean the coolant system? not quite sure what that means.

so despite it steaming up i should let it run to 215-220 to see if it stops?

[sweetbmxrider]

i wonder what the condition of the coolant is. maybe its an improper mix + older coolant.

[madness410]

yeah im going to do the water pump after i test out the fan with the shroud...i cant really find the time between work and school so this thread is going to drag a little bit.

adam i use the 50/50 coolant from advanced...it was all new when i swapped head gaskets in august...when i bled the system out i lost maybe half of it and put more of the same stuff in.

[camaroAL]

coolant mixture isnt going to give u a prob. most racers, including myself run straight water, and if i left my fan on it will run at 150-160 no higher with no t-stat. sometimes too low of a number t-stat is no good either. also a low pressure rad cap may help as well. try to get a 7lb lever lock one

[madness410]

arrite i will see. i think i have a lever lock on there right now. watch...all this and its going to be something really stupid..i can tell usually it always is with this car

[JL8Jeff]

If the car is just sitting and idling and you turn the electric fan on, it should start to go back down pretty fast. A mechanical fan will try to keep it around the temp of the t-stat or the lowest the combo can run. It sounds like your electric fan isn't working well enough by itself so try the shroud. If that doesn't bring it down then the fan itself is a problem or the coolant isn't circulating properly or could be geting aerated by the pump.

[Jersyboyy]

I remember him saying something months ago when I first saw the car about the previous owner putting in an aftermarket pump and how we all contemplated it being the wrong direction flowing pump. He changed the radiator flushed the system used good coolant its either the pump or he didnt bleed the system and its got a bunch of air bubbles in it.
Just what Im thinking is going on...we shall all find out soon enough..I hope, so when are you going to do this thing?

[sweetbmxrider]

i couldn't imagine there is still air in it as much as he drives unless there is other issues causing air to get into the system.

[DevilDougWS6]

pressure test your system. the pressure tester looks like a pump with a hose on it, you put it on your radiator fill neck and pump it up to a certain pressure (whatever it is for cars, hmmwvs are higher)

if the needle holds in place, then there is no problem. if it falls then you have a leak somewhere, where air is getting in.

[madness410]

i just took the pump out today..ran into a few problems...the bolts on the water pump were pretty much superglued in there, no idea but they were the hardest thing to get out, and by the time i went to pick up the waterpump gaskets i ran out of daylight. it will be finished by tomorrow. i appreciate everyones help. thanks again.

[sweetbmxrider]

1st collect parts
2nd take off parts
3rd drink beer


see, you're doin it wrong!

[madness410]

see adam thats theory number one.

theory number two is what i subscribe to. my theory is im so sloppy at doing work on cars that im going to need to run out to replace parts, or get more of whatever i need, so while im there ill buy the parts i need. haha.

one time when i was working on my civic i beleive i went to advanced auto like...3 or 4 times in 2 hours. the people working there were like::axe: or :loser:

[FIcamaroRE92]

see adam thats theory number one.

theory number two is what i subscribe to. my theory is im so sloppy at doing work on cars that im going to need to run out to replace parts, or get more of whatever i need, so while im there ill buy the parts i need. haha.

one time when i was working on my civic i beleive i went to advanced auto like...3 or 4 times in 2 hours. the people working there were like::axe: or :loser:

I always end up smashing stuff up, or getting pissed and throwing old parts across the garage ( like the old window motor lol ) which usually results in a trip to teh local pepboys for **** that got thrown that wasnt supposed to.:rofl:

[Dilley]

I always end up smashing stuff up, or getting pissed and throwing old parts across the garage ( like the old window motor lol ) which usually results in a trip to teh local pepboys for **** that got thrown that wasnt supposed to.:rofl:

hahah same i was doing spark plugs with my buddy on his stang and they wouldn't thread in so i spiked it an shatter the porcelain there are many other times **** happened as well haha

[madness410]

what the...the new waterpump i bought off jerseyboyy was off an 87 trans am...and doesnt fit the pulley that was on my old water pump? IDK. couldnt find a replacement pulley on it. i went to advanced picked up a brand new one off an 89 and its the same as my old one. im painting it now and its going in...

i was working on it today and an older guy drives by with his kids and wife in a mini van...hes like: YOU SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT A FORD!! in my head im like, this guy doesnt know what hes talking about...then say: guy im pretty sure this is better than any ford you have ever driven. he said he was kidding and he had an 88 iroc, and complimented me on my TURD gen.

sucks to get the image in my head but i will probably be that guy someday yelling that to a kid whose working on a 2010 camaro 20 years from now...

[sweetbmxrider]

ahhhahah nah thats cool. its motivation!

Fix
Often
Repair
Daily

Driver
Returns
On
Foot

[madness410]

Found
On
Road
Dead

[madness410]

just an update..

i think im really close to fixing this problem. i hooked the new rad that i have up and the fan set up, also put on the new water pump i bought. i filled the rad with coolant, left the cap half on because i wanted to check it as the car was running, turns out that was a big mistake. i turned on the car hung out by the hood for a few minutes...and the temperature rocketed to 210...so i turn the car off..and the radiator cap goes FLYING and coolant spills out everywhere from the radiator all over my lawn. me and my friends have never heard of that happen before...anybody know? im guessing the pressure built up a little under the cap, and when i turned it off it released the last of the pressure and exploded off.

so im like, cant let that happen again...i top off the radiator with coolant, seal the cap and start it up. it was at 200, went to 185, shot up to 195, then down to 180 or so where it sat for about 5 minutes until i turned it off. i didnt want to open the cap when it was hot so im going to let it sit and check back tomorrow. but if it doesnt climb when its idling thats exactly what i set out to solve and it didnt do it today...so hopefully i fixed the problem ..knock on wood.

[WildBillyT]

just an update..

i think im really close to fixing this problem. i hooked the new rad that i have up and the fan set up, also put on the new water pump i bought. i filled the rad with coolant, left the cap half on because i wanted to check it as the car was running, turns out that was a big mistake. i turned on the car hung out by the hood for a few minutes...and the temperature rocketed to 210...so i turn the car off..and the radiator cap goes FLYING and coolant spills out everywhere from the radiator all over my lawn. me and my friends have never heard of that happen before...anybody know? im guessing the pressure built up a little under the cap, and when i turned it off it released the last of the pressure and exploded off.

so im like, cant let that happen again...i top off the radiator with coolant, seal the cap and start it up. it was at 200, went to 185, shot up to 195, then down to 180 or so where it sat for about 5 minutes until i turned it off. i didnt want to open the cap when it was hot so im going to let it sit and check back tomorrow. but if it doesnt climb when its idling thats exactly what i set out to solve and it didnt do it today...so hopefully i fixed the problem ..knock on wood.

Did you burp the system of air?

[madness410]

Did you burp the system of air?

what do u mean...bleed it?

[FIcamaroRE92]

Too lazy to look back but you do have a switch for the fan(s) right?

[madness410]

Too lazy to look back but you do have a switch for the fan(s) right?

yessir

[WildBillyT]

what do u mean...bleed it?

http://www.radiators.com/radiator_how_to_maintain.html

[madness410]

http://www.radiators.com/radiator_how_to_maintain.html

yeah im guessing what its saying there is what happened

[FIcamaroRE92]

yeah im guessing what its saying there is what happened

I concure

[madness410]

i never knew about that though...learn something new everyday.

[Clark]

I skimmed through this, and I second the fan shroud. There was actually a pretty cool write up in CarCraft a while back preaching the importance of a fan shroud. Basically they were saying that without a shroud, the only surface on the radiator that is being efficiently cooled is the area that the fan covers. With a shroud, you are effectively utilizing the fan to cool the entire area that the shroud covers. So you want to get something that covers a large area of the radiator...something like this

http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/1014845/10002/-1

But in all honesty, since your fans are hooked up manually anyhow, I would highly suggest looking into getting a ford taurus SHO fan to put in there. That thing is a beast. People use em in 4x4 projects all the time. It mates up to a 3rd gen radiator rather nice with minimal fabrication. I had to cut out a section of plastic or two to get it to fit. Thing pulls over 4000cfm of air on high speed (low speed I think is somewhere in the realm of half that). You can get these for $50 on ebay.

http://www.jeephorizons.com/tech/fan/fan.jpg


Although I do agree that your fans on there right now should be keeping your car cool to an extent, it may be something to really look at. I think I ran in the low 200's with the 3rd gen dual fan setup, with only one fan working on a stock setup.

[madness410]

hey clark thanks for the help. its $50 for the fan and the shroud? ill definately look into that.

the thing is i have a stock radiator and stock fan set up and its cooling the system good...i just need to top the rad off and make sure its running and not climbing up, it stayed at 180 the other day.

[Clark]

hey clark thanks for the help. its $50 for the fan and the shroud? ill definately look into that.

the thing is i have a stock radiator and stock fan set up and its cooling the system good...i just need to top the rad off and make sure its running and not climbing up, it stayed at 180 the other day.

180? Thats good. 200 is even fine, my dd stays consistently at 200.

And yes, that fan and shroud are one piece, they come together. If you are interested just search Ebay for "Ford Taurus Fan" and youll see a bunch of em. Also, theres a few write ups on TGO about those fans if you need more guidance.

[Pampered-Z]

I didn't read this entire thread line for line, but what about these ideas?

Where is you temp sensor connected too? Is it going into the head?

Take the thermostat completely out and see what happens. You could have something simple like the wrong housing or thermostat so that there is some interference and the thermostat is not opening completey.

What is the brand and the part number of the intake and heads your running? With this much of an issue are your certain the water jackets bewteen the intake and heads are lined up correctly? Could you have a 400 block or heads and you need the steam holes drilled?

Or, you could have a later model intake and early heads or something? Been a few years, but some intakes needed the water passages blocked or left open with certain heads and you could either get intake gaskets with or without the passages? Did you make sure all the openings matched between the intake/intakegasket/heads/head gaskets/block?

[madness410]

I didn't read this entire thread line for line, but what about these ideas?

Where is you temp sensor connected too? Is it going into the head?

Take the thermostat completely out and see what happens. You could have something simple like the wrong housing or thermostat so that there is some interference and the thermostat is not opening completey.

What is the brand and the part number of the intake and heads your running? With this much of an issue are your certain the water jackets bewteen the intake and heads are lined up correctly? Could you have a 400 block or heads and you need the steam holes drilled?

Or, you could have a later model intake and early heads or something? Been a few years, but some intakes needed the water passages blocked or left open with certain heads and you could either get intake gaskets with or without the passages? Did you make sure all the openings matched between the intake/intakegasket/heads/head gaskets/block?

hey man thanks for the interest. before i answer the questions just know EVERYTHING on this car is pretty much aftermarket.

the temp sensor plugs into the intake, it doenst give me a problem im pretty sure its a fairly accurate read-out. and i base this on absolutely nothing lol, but its good.

the thermostat is brand new i dont see how it could be giving me problems but i will try that tomorrow, i warmed up the car today before i saw this post and the coolant is still almost 200*.

the heads are aftermarket world sportman II's...definately made for a 350 block...its a holley intake manifold, not sure on part numbers. all the water jackets should match up with the heads and intake...

[madness410]

i just went outside and started it up, and it still climbed slowly. the heater core hose that is connected into the firewall leaks a little bit but im pretty sure thats not the problem.

the new set up works fine, fan works, rad works, the pump is new. but it still climbs.

next thing i want to look at is bleed the system out again, just to make sure thats not it. then adjust the timing maybe its running lean. this is really starting to piss me off. im calling up mechanics in the area for quotes to diagnose the problem.

[Clark]

Whats the max temp you hit again?

Try some Purple Ice from Royal Purple?

[madness410]

Whats the max temp you hit again?

Try some Purple Ice from Royal Purple?

200 and when i shut it off it kept climbing...

purple ice? i guess its a type of coolant?

[sweetbmxrider]

its an additive, its not going to fix your issue IMO

[madness410]

yeah thats what i was thinking. im pretty sure every minor thing i could do with my skills / knowledge has been done...im looking into bringing it to a professional

[FIcamaroRE92]

gauges ****ed up?

[Tru2Chevy]

200 and when i shut it off it kept climbing...

200 is not an issue....and it's usually gonna climb when you shut the car off, as the coolant in the block is no longer circulating, but still absorbing all the heat from the engine.

- Justin

[madness410]

arrite...whats the temperature that it would start to steam at?

[madness410]

bled the system out completely today..climbed to 220

[Tru2Chevy]

arrite...whats the temperature that it would start to steam at?

That depends on the exact mixture of water / antifreeze and the pressure of your radiator cap. The antifreeze lowers the 212* boiling point of water, however that is raised quite a bit when it's pressurized.

Have you pressure tested the system yet to make sure that it is holding pressure correctly?

- Justin

[madness410]

its 50/50 antifreeze / water. i havent pressure tested it yet, is there anyone on here who has one i can borrow?

next thing is the timing and the fuel / air mixture and if that doesnt work im at a loss for words lol

[jims69camaro]

I don't know 3rd gens well enough, but I'm assuming it has electric fans. [if they are, they were swapped in - remember he has a built motor. i have a clutch fan on my '87.]

If somebody messed with the wiring maybe they could have reversed them by accident.

i don't see how that is possible, really. reversing the fan would have next to zero effect on the amount of air that was passing through the radiator. it's like this, the fans are developed to force the maximum amount of air possible in one direction. they make them either push or pull. you can't take a push fan and make it pull, is my point. since they are specifically developed to push the maximum amount of air, just reversing the direction that the fan rotates will not allow it to pull the same amount of air. i have a couple of fans here, electric-type fans, and the blades really are quite different than the clutch fan of years ago. if the wires were crossed, i don't think the fan would operate.

anyway, i offered this up, and although i am unwilling to read through 5 pages of responses i don't know if i repeated anything. at least we got him off of selling the car, which is a positive move as far as i am concerned. here was my response: one way to learn a car is to take one completely apart. that could be worth its time, if you ask me. but you don't have a place to part it out, so that's out.

you don't want to sell it whole because it has a problem and, well, to put it bluntly, kiss that 6k goodbye.

it has a problem, you are not enjoying the car, you feel the time isn't right to sell it... dude, you've answered your own question. tighten your belt and get through the tough time with the car. you'll fix it eventually.

and you'll probably find it is a lot easier to fix than you think. with a car overheating, it can only be a handful of things: thermostat not working/sticking closed, clogged and/or worn out hoses (you'd be surprised how much the vacuum in the system sucks down on the inside of the hose and if it's well worn that could block off the coolant from circulating in the system), wrong type of cap, coolant leaking into the motor (what color is the smoke, if any, from the tailpipe), coolant leaking from the radiator, radiator blocked... just to name a few. there are other problems and ways of diagnosing them without throwing a bunch of money at it. if it's the thermostat, then you're done for less than $20.

so, don't sell it. do what you have to to make it by without selling it. people kick themselves years later after selling a car they used to enjoy.

[sweetbmxrider]

you can cross the wires and the fan will operate in the reverse direction.

[LTb1ow]

Yea, but if the fan blades are designed to push air and you spin the motor the wrong way, you won't move much air at all.

You don't see to many prop planes with reverse do you? ;)

[sweetbmxrider]

i didn't say the fans would operate correctly, i simply said reversing wires reverses the direction of the motor. a simple test is a hand behind the fan with it on, you should feel a considerable amount of air. if you have any doubts, you may have a problem.

[Tru2Chevy]

I don't know 3rd gens well enough, but I'm assuming it has electric fans. [if they are, they were swapped in - remember he has a built motor. i have a clutch fan on my '87.]

If somebody messed with the wiring maybe they could have reversed them by accident.

Jim, my 87 305 came with a single electric fan.....they were available that year, just not sure which cars got what.

- Justin

[JL8Jeff]

Air will move both ways with a fan, kind of similar to a boat prop. It might not be as efficient the wrong direction, but it will move it and the wrong way is not good.

OP, where is your water temp gauge getting the temp reading from? You might be getting hot spots around the heads if coolant isn't flowing well enough. Unless your engine is built real crazy, a good radiator, t-stat, water pump, fan and shroud should be able to cool it. If your carb is running too lean it could lead to the extra heat as well. Spark plugs could be the wrong heat range, too much timing, etc. A mild built engine should not have these overheating issues so it sounds like something is wrong with the combination. Has anyone else checked the car for you?

[madness410]

nope nobody else has checked the car for me. im waiting for Al from TMR to pick up my lexan t tops and he said he can take a quick look at it. but im going to try to richen up the mixture, maybe even try out my buddies carb off his 92 rs to see if that fixes the problem.

[BonzoHansen]

Jim, my 87 305 came with a single electric fan.....they were available that year, just not sure which cars got what.

- Justin

The 85 TPI T/A I stripped years ago had a single electric fan. I put it in my 82 T/A and it cooled that car just fine, in conjunction with a good radiator & good air damn under the car.