what to do?

[Saitin]

Well I have about given up on selling my 94 formula at this point and am now considering a few things.
First some details
engine has 160k miles new opti new plugs new wires earlier this past year.
Has a A4 tranny rebuilt 2 summers ago with a shift kit
has a 3.73 geared posi rear
borla catbacks with stainless tips
the A/C has to be charged every year to work so I might just do a ac delete

what would be better rebuilding the engine or possibly finding a replacement first
or could I throw a cam on it replace the lifters,push rods,rockers,timing chain, springs and end it with some headers on the current one?

I probably won't get around to this until mid November some time(possibly sooner if my cruise on the 28th out of Galveston TX is canceled)
so any input would be appreciated.
also if this is in the wrong section could you please move it i didn't know if i should post it under general or in the engine/power/tuning or here

[NJ Torque]

Do you have another car while this one is down?

Can you do the work yourself or will you send it out?

What are you looking for performance wise?

[Saitin]

Crate engines are a bit out of my price range or would it cost over 3 grand no matter?
not looking for 383 or anything possibly a lt4 or lt4 hot cam package.

Yeah I have another car(a 94 v6 bird) and I would prefer to do most the work myself or with the help of some people in the area(currently living in an apartment so yeah).
as for performance I don't really know atm lol would like to have it run good at the track but yet still be able to be drivable on the street.

[WildBillyT]

Crate engines are a bit out of my price range or would it cost over 3 grand no matter?
not looking for 383 or anything possibly a lt4 or lt4 hot cam package.

I deleted it on second thought. That is pretty pricey. But a full rebuild might be in that range anyway.

[NJ Torque]

The "Hotcam" isnt really that good for the hassel of doing a cam...

Are you planning on doing a converter with the cam? You'll wake the car up more with a gear and stall...

[Saitin]

yeah I was thinking a gear and stall was essential with an a4 possibly a 2600 stall

[Saitin]

The "Hotcam" isnt really that good for the hassel of doing a cam...
.
what would you recommend?
comp or crane or is there something els?

[BTK79]

what would you recommend?
comp or crane or is there something els?

See if you could PM Pampered Z he knows LT1's .:nod:

[Slow Z]

What are your goals with the car? Are you interested in making it fast for drag racing? Just a quick weekend cruiser? or daily driver with a little more power? What is your budget? Whenever I build something I take the budget I think it'll cost then double it to get the actual real world final cost.

[BonzoHansen]

What is wrong with the car as it sits today?

[Pampered-Z]

With 160K on the clock I wouldn't even bother to put any mods into that engine. You should really think about sarting fresh with a total rebuild or look for another block to work with, LT1 blocks are fairly cheap. Once you start modding you're going to be adding more cylinder pressure and stress, and you will most likely need to spinning the engine higher. You are easily risking of a spun bearing and finding yourself with allot of blowbye, oil problems etc. Since you aren't the original owner you really won't know what state the engine is in until you open it up... Could be OK, but could also be a mess? Even if you can reuse the bottom end, the lifters are probably too worn to handle the higher pressure of new springs as well.

So you really need to budget for having the bottom end freshend up. Rings, Bearings, oil pump. Depending on how well the engine was treated you might get away with the above, but with that many miles I'd honestly budget for needed to bore the block and go with oversized pistons.

Also don't forget that LT1 parts like the timing chain and gaskets aren't cheap like a standard small block. Make sure you budget for them.

As far as Cam selection, the Hot cam Kit is really a good street cam, It comes with the proper springs and rockers so it's an easy install. With a good tune you should be able to pick up 20-25HP, bit more with headers. But it you really want to wake the car up you really need to look at something else. Keeping the car emmisions leagal the Comp 305 cam (114LSA)will work nice, With a good set of Cats on the car the 305 cam ( 112 LSA ) or the extreem 502 cam should sneak thru. If you not worried about the sniffer, the 224/230 cam is what I feel the best street/strip cam for the LT1. If you have the heads to support it the 224/230 has a high lift grind too! ** You aer again going to need to get into springs to support the cam and the rest of the valve train parts, and the $$ add up quickly.

[Saitin]

What is wrong with the car as it sits today?
well 160k miles on the engine is the only thing that is really wrong other than that nothing is wrong with it atm just missing a few interior trim pieces,window motors are slow and has a cracked front bumper and spider webbing in the back. which I am in the process of getting fixed not to mention I drive it weekly.The main reason I was wanting to sell it was to avoid spending money on building/replacing the engine this fall lol I'd love to get an ls1 car instead haha.

I am not looking to drag it just maybe a weekend cruiser or daily driver with more power than stock this would be my first real build of a v8, emissions inspection is good until 2010 so I dunno I might say to hell with that for the time being.

Thanks pampered I got the car when it had aprox 150k miles on it, I'll look into trying to find another lt1 some where.
Yeah I was planning to replace the oil pump,air pump,and add an electric water pump in there and pretty much replace most of the stock pieces lifters,springs, and so forth. i'll look into the 305 and 502 setups as well.
Does using over sized pistons add any type of major benefit?
Another question would you throw a 95 or higher lt1 in there or would that make alot of extra problems and I should stick to 93-94's

[Slow Z]

I say put a cam in it and spray the crap out of it until it dies, then rebuild. What do you have to lose in the long run? :mrgreen: Either it goes out in glory or stays together and runs great/fast for years to come.

When it comes to cams the only solution is Cam Motion. Lunati, Crane, Comp are crap in comparison.

[Saitin]

I say put a cam in it and spray the crap out of it until it dies, then rebuild.

HAHA maybe never thought about spraying it, though I might consider it.

[Pampered-Z]

Just watch your budget, now you're talking about elec. WP and other things so you better be prepared. You're now looking at about a $1500 budget for your cam swap.

All the 92-97 blocks are the same. Front end is different and cam slightly different in lift, but basically the same. The few more HPs the later years was due to exhaust and gearing changes. Boring the block mean s more cubic inches. So if you bore the block just go .30 over and you'll have a 355 CI engine.

I set of stock heads ported to a stage II set-up ( porting and larger valves would go nicely with a 355 and an aggressive cam.


SlowZ, I disagree about the Comp cam ( but I won't delete your post ) :-) Comp had a bad rap for years I wiped a few out in the early - mid 90s! but their much better now. They have a wide selection and the 306 cam is probably the most widely used cam in the LTx cars and is a real consistent performer.

[Saitin]

Thanks pamp I am looking at 2500.00 max budget so if I aim in the 1500ish range i should hit my 2500 mark i'm not lookign to pay much in labor besides some beer and linches/dinners.
and for the different years question i asked it was more aimed at say the opti for example the 93-94 ones are a pain in the ass but the 95+ ones are better vented vs unvented(still a pain) and so forth along those lines I know that would also mean pulling the computer and harness but is there anything els that is would entail cause I might be able to pick up a 96 LT1 with 65k miles on it tranny,computer,harness included for under 600.00

[LTb1ow]

The 96 is OBDII so you could run a huge cam, LTs and not cats and the state of NJ will pass you no problem. Personally, I would spend the cash you have now on other stuff, gears, stall etc. If you start digging into the motor, that 2500 max will not be enough. I spent more than that just doing the top end on mine.

[Pampered-Z]

If you pick up a complete engine (with Opti) the only thing you need is the harness that goes from the opti to the ECM harness (this is the weather pack connection on the passenger side of the intake). The ECM will be able to run the opti with no problem, you "May" need to reuse your 94 Coil and Ign. module ( I think 96-97s have different wiring), but everything else should just plug in.

It's only messy when you swap a 94+ motor into a 92-93 or visa~versa when you run into allot of issues because there are allot more differences that have to be dealt with. You swapping a 95+ into a 94 doesn't have all the issues.

John

[LTb1ow]

And I guess, you might be able to squeak by with an Eagle crank and 383 assembly if you do all the assembly yourself and have a shop do the machine work. But then you will have a 383 that can't take boost, and odds are the stock heads will choke it.

[camaromike95]

I say put a cam in it and spray the crap out of it until it dies, then rebuild. What do you have to lose in the long run? :mrgreen: Either it goes out in glory or stays together and runs great/fast for years to come.

When it comes to cams the only solution is Cam Motion. Lunati, Crane, Comp are crap in comparison.

id say screw the cam n just spray it and hope for the best. Thats wat i did and im hitting 12.1 wit drag radials on a stock lt1 motor, and its been running strong for 2 years now.

[Saitin]

id say screw the cam n just spray it and hope for the best. Thats wat i did and im hitting 12.1 wit drag radials on a stock lt1 motor, and its been running strong for 2 years now.

does your motor have 160k miles on it?
again i'm not looking to drag anything maybe run mid to high 12's at the track and just have a nice looking car that sounds and looks good

[Saitin]

If you start digging into the motor, that 2500 max will not be enough. I spent more than that just doing the top end on mine.

thats just the engine cash I already have 3.73:1 gears and I plan on getting a set of pacesetter headers as well but that won't be bought using the engine funds.
and 2500.00 is the max that I would like to do lol but i just picked up a second part time job in order to fund this so i'll probably end up putting more into it.

[sweetbmxrider]

i recommend you stay away from pacesetters. do your motor and trans mounts too. i would use polly mounts cause i break the rubber trans all the time.

[Saitin]

i recommend you stay away from pacesetters. do your motor and trans mounts too. i would use polly mounts cause i break the rubber trans all the time.

whats wrong with the pacesetters?
I've seen alot of people here with them and assumed they where decent
what would you recomend?

[Tru2Chevy]

The 96 is OBDII so you could run a huge cam, LTs and not cats and the state of NJ will pass you no problem.

He's talking about buy a '96 engine....not a '96 car. Inspection goes by VIN number, so even if he does an OBDII conversion, they'll do a tailpipe test.

- Justin

[LTb1ow]

Oh yea, :( no fun at all NJ, no fun. And I have pacesetters, no problems with mine at all.

[sweetbmxrider]

whats wrong with the pacesetters?
I've seen alot of people here with them and assumed they where decent
what would you recomend?

yeah i think i got a bad batch but i would still pay a little more for something decent. i would probably get hookers over pacesetters. but do some researching and see what is best for your heads/cam.

[LTb1ow]

Whatever you decide to do, make sure you get coated headers and know that you will fail inspection with LTs.

[sweetbmxrider]

yeah haha. whatever you do will cost you more money than you plan

[Saitin]

Whatever you decide to do, make sure you get coated headers and know that you will fail inspection with LTs.

haha so stick with shorties if you wanna pass!

[LTb1ow]

Mids are much better than shorties. Shorties are no better than shiny stock mannys.

[Slow96LT1]

i got a bare 96 lt1 block forsale

[LTb1ow]

How much?

[sweetbmxrider]

ok the hell is the difference between shorties and mids i hear the term thrown around equally? do shorites end at the stock spot? if so then get mids

[LTb1ow]

With mids you will be closer to having a tuned length header, and I think in most cases they will have larger primary s and more importantly larger collectors.

[sweetbmxrider]

shorties or mids?
http://i23.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/7d/04/2ed1_1.JPG

[LTb1ow]

MAC mids.

[sweetbmxrider]

i have never seen a shorty in my life then....

[LTb1ow]

Shiny stock manifolds.

[sweetbmxrider]

thats ghey

[LTb1ow]

You have never seen shorties??

[sweetbmxrider]

what are we talking about now :lol:

[LTb1ow]

hahah who knows, I'm just rambling... but shorties/mids will kill your upper RPM power.

[sweetbmxrider]

yeah but lowered susp will kill your LT and cats if you do that thing. i had shorties on my truck actually. they made some good noise

[LTb1ow]

yeah but lowered susp will kill your LT and cats if you do that thing. i had shorties on my truck actually. they made some good noise

Nah, my cats stay either in the trunk or the closet for peak cleaning. :wink: And I have yet to hit anything, the LTs tucked up nicely.

[Saitin]

i got a bare 96 lt1 block forsale

how much are you wanting and is it jsut the block or is anything included?

[LTb1ow]

Sorry to hijack your thread... and if you need help, lemme know, if I am free, I can always use more practice working on LT1s.

[sweetbmxrider]

Nah, my cats stay either in the trunk or the closet for peak cleaning. :wink: And I have yet to hit anything, the LTs tucked up nicely.

my cat catches most everything, sometimes the passenger side portion of the y. i tucked it as much as i could too. well if the honeycomb breaks, it will shoot right out the tailpipes! thank you SLP

yeah sorry bout the hijack, we destroy threads

[LTb1ow]

You should see the underside of mine, all the U clamps have the bolts straight down for best road kill shredding action.

[Saitin]

haha np guys interesting read though

[LTb1ow]

So what do you have done to the formula?

[Saitin]

So what do you have done to the formula?

read the very first post that I made

[LTb1ow]

Not much, I would try and do stuff that doesn't involve motor internals. Mids, good catback, CAI etc.

[Saitin]

Not much, I would try and do stuff that doesn't involve motor internals. Mids, good catback, CAI etc.

Yeah i have a CAI on it atm lol guess i forgot to add that
and i firgured i'd do the headers when i did the engine seeing as i am probably going to be pulling it.
and what catbacks would you recommend

[Pampered-Z]

Saitan, you better sit down and look at prices because you don't have anywhere near the budget!

The term shortie and Mid seems to vary by vendors, they are both very simular, but tipically, Shortie Headers connect to the stock Y-pipe (or come with one) and are not equal lenght tubes. As such you only get a slight porformance gain. But they are also tipically cheap.

Mid-lenght are larger and longer offer a better performance gain. Probably the most commonly used are the MACs or SLP, Edelbrock also makes nice headers, and the Edelbrock TES is one of the only ones that is CARB certified to be 50 state leagal. I ran the MACs on my heads/cam engine and they worked very well.

LT and full race headers, will make the most power, but you have to remember that there are allot of other exspenses you may have. Custom Y-pipe, O2 extenders, And since you have a 94, you may need to also switch to heated O2s. This needing heated O2s is hit-or-miss, doesn't seem to be related to the brand of headers, just on some cars the O2s don't get hot enough and it throws the ECM info fits trying to switch to closed loop.

[Saitin]

Saitan, you better sit down and look at prices because you don't have anywhere near the budget!



I have, I didn't think a cam package cost 2 grand lol well the ones i was looking at any ways
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+400129+115+309536&autoview=sku

[LTb1ow]

You get penny and dimed to death with it. Sure the cam is cheap, but then all the mods to support it, injectors, and a tune....

[Saitin]

True,I guess I need to rephrase and say that I am wanting to start with a cam and go from there lol as long as I have the cash coming i should be good to go.

Guess my first question was answered way earlier I should either rebuild my current motor or grab a new one(looking at grabbing a new one now)

[LTb1ow]

I still would vote on doing every bolt on you can do before going deep.

[Saitin]

I still would vote on doing every bolt on you can do before going deep.

Ok I see what you mean,what would you recommend I go for next

good catback,.

so whats wrong with borla I think I payed over 800 for mine from summit hell i think i can find them on there site if you wanna look at it.

[LTb1ow]

I missed that, my bad. But some argue that a borla is a 800 dollar cutout...:wink:

[Saitin]

I missed that, my bad. But some argue that a borla is a 800 dollar cutout...:wink:
it was one of the first things I did to the car when I got it before the tranny went out,didn't know to much about what and what those days.

[LTb1ow]

Mids would be a good step. Then maybe an EWP if you do it right. And perhaps some 1.6 RRs. Although, they kinda push your stock springs to the max.

[LTb1ow]

On the other hand, doing some suspension work is always good. LCAs, LCA relo brackets, rear diff cover, and a 3000 stall.

[Saitin]

alright I'll look into this and go from there guess I'll do the headers before any type of engine work.
you say mids and going back the the other conversation all I come across are full lengths and shorties or are some shorties mids?

[LTb1ow]

And what could be more fun that installing headers on a 4th gen? :lol:

[Saitin]

sex on the beach:lol:

but seriously are the mids called shorties?

[LTb1ow]

Does that make use of every profanity you know, and cause severe bruising and bleeding?

[Saitin]

Does that make use of every profanity you know, and cause severe bruising and bleeding?

well I was referring to the drink but yeah it could do all three.

[LTb1ow]

The term "mids" and "shorties" are kinda always mixed up. Look for a nice set of MAC mids, or if you don't care about NJ emissions, pick up that set of used pacesetters for 200.

[WildBillyT]

And what could be more fun that installing headers on a 4th gen? :lol:

Installing sidemount headers on a big block vette.

[LTb1ow]

I don't know much outside the world of the LT1, I assume you have lots of space and easy accessibility on those sidemounts? :lol:

[sweetbmxrider]

even doing headers you can run into this and that while you are working on them. so be sure to budget accordingly....extra!

[LTb1ow]

Things like the dipstick, which if you have a short temper and are lazy, I guarantee you breaking or mangling immensely...

[deadtrend1]

You get penny and dimed to death with it. Sure the cam is cheap, but then all the mods to support it, injectors, and a tune....


Ummm ...... ok

I am running stock injectors on mine. Stock TB, nothing else done. And if hes going to do every bolt on imaginable then a tune is worth it for that anyways.

[LTb1ow]

Stock injectors with a hotcam? Really? Do you know what your max duty cycle is with that setup? Not arguing, just curious I just thought it was a must to upgrade injectors.

[deadtrend1]

Stock injectors with a hotcam? Really? Do you know what your max duty cycle is with that setup? Not arguing, just curious I just thought it was a must to upgrade injectors.

honestly I do not. I never datalogged it. Brian @ PCMforless did it. I could email him and ask him if he has a idea.

[Saitin]

Stock injectors with a hotcam? Really? Do you know what your max duty cycle is with that setup? Not arguing, just curious I just thought it was a must to upgrade injectors.

from what I ahve read it is recommended but not required but with mine that have 160k mile son them it would probably be a good idea to do it.

[LTb1ow]

I have a set of stock ones with like 70k on if your interested.

[Pampered-Z]

Stock injectors ( 94-97 are 24lb injectors - and as long as the fuel system is in good shape ) will support 325-350HP N/A with no problem. We've done big cams ( GM847 / 306 / LE3 cams ) to make around 375HP before we seem any issues with duty cycles getting too high. Even upgrading the fuel pump will get you near 400HP before we needed to switch to 30/36 LB injectors.

A hot cam and bolt on won't gert you near 350. 310-320HP most likely.

If you go with a power adder then you want to go bigger as you need more fuel to make sure you never go lean.

[Saitin]

alright i'm ready to throw down some cash on some headers and I am looking at these here (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL-68942&view=1&N=700+4294924760+4294908153+4294907958+4294840140+ 4294923429+4294839039+4294889104+4294918680+429488 0275+4294902386)
what are your thoughts?
I am hoping these are mids but summit doesn't have any thing listed as a mid.

[LTb1ow]

Geez, those are mighty expensive shorties.

[sweetbmxrider]

look at mac mids. they are usually on ebay for a decent buck. with headers you will want to do the motor mounts and you need your cat welded to the new y-pipe. also there are the check valves for the air tubes and the egr to worry about. fyi!

[Saitin]

look at mac mids. they are usually on ebay for a decent buck. with headers you will want to do the motor mounts and you need your cat welded to the new y-pipe. also there are the check valves for the air tubes and the egr to worry about. fyi!

I can't find anything that says mids I spent the past week looking,
so I should do the motor mounts and trans mounts when I do the headers?

[Saitin]

Geez, those are mighty expensive shorties.

I have yet to find anything under 400.00 for coated and new.

[LTb1ow]

Yea, but you know you want some LTs..... and yes, do motor mounts and tranny mount or you will kick yourself repeatedly when you have to crawl under there again to switch em out.

[Saitin]

I know I want Lt's lol but I want to be able to pass NJ emissions as well.
on the other hand inspection is good till 2010 so I might say to hell with it and deal with it then.
I was browsing and can't really find any mid's do you mind posting a link or 2 please.
If not I might jsut take some hooker LT's, I want to get these ordered/payed for by friday this week as I now have 2 paychecks saved from my designated mod the firebird job lol

[Pampered-Z]

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641762


here's a used set for $220.

(94-95 headers are the same ).

[Saitin]

thanks pamp I dropped him a pm

[sweetbmxrider]

ebay usually has listings for mac mids too.

[NastyEllEssWon]

if you want to stay emission legal get the edlebrock. if you get the long tubes and block off the egr and delete all the air injection and emissions crap youll end up gaining more in the long run. 2010 is a nice sticker. i would do the mods and not worry about emissions. sell the car before the time comes and get an lsx. theyll be like 3500 by then :mrgreen: