Front tires rubbing... :(

[2RARE84s]

So... After re-doing my front suspension (K member, Tie rods, springs, ball joints, all bushings.) my front tires are rubbing when I turn (even moderately) from side to side. It didn't do that before but I assume that is because the suspension was so loose the wheels wouldn't even turn how far they should. I think it might have something to do with either the offset of the rims, or the tire size. Right now the rims that are on there are 16x8 (don't know the offset) and the tires are 225/60/16. Could I get away with putting spacers up front?

These are the rims.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/brain082883/Camaro9.jpg

[WildBillyT]

Did you get an alignment done? Those tires don't seem like they'd even remotely create a problem.

[2RARE84s]

Did you get an alignment done?

Yes, the guy said he did it twice. the car does drive straight, but I guess the camber could be off still.

[BonzoHansen]

Where are they rubbing?

[BonzoHansen]

pitman arm is no wear on 3rd gens

Also, 225/60/16 are ~1" taller than stock.

Did the shop give you a print out of the alignment specs afterwards?

[2RARE84s]

Did you get an alignment done? Those tires don't seem like they'd even remotely create a problem.

Yeah, something is definately not right, I cant even turn the wheel even remotely close to all the way without them rubbing on the inside wheel well. I can see the places where it is rubbing but can't figure out why.

[WildBillyT]

pitman arm is no wear on 3rd gens

Yeah, I deleted my post. Forgot.

[2RARE84s]

pitman arm is no wear on 3rd gens

Also, 225/60/16 are ~1" taller than stock.

I was thinking that the 225/60/16's were too tall, but I didn't know what it should be.

[2RARE84s]

Did the shop give you a print out of the alignment specs afterwards?

No :(

Also, I am not sure what you mean by "no wear on 3rd gens"?

[BonzoHansen]

I was thinking that the 225/60/16's were too tall, but I didn't know what it should be.

My guess is 245/50/16. Maybe 235/55/16 - did 3rd gens get that size? - if so they are probably only 1/2" shorter.

[BonzoHansen]

No :(

Also, I am not sure what you mean by "no wear on 3rd gens"?

pitman arm is solid metal and it (realistically) cannot wear out. WB was thinking about this 1st gen, which has a wearable pitman arm. Idler arm and center link are wear items on 3rd gens, but won’t cause rubbing.

[2RARE84s]

pitman arm is solid metal and it (realistically) cannot wear out. WB was thinking about this 1st gen, which has a wearable pitman arm. Idler arm and center link are wear items on 3rd gens, but won’t cause rubbing.

Ah, ok.

[2RARE84s]

My guess is 245/50/16. Maybe 235/55/16 - did 3rd gens get that size? - if so they are probably only 1/2" shorter.

So it seems that the tires are causing this? I hate not being able to turn normally. If all I need are 2 tires, I would do that for the short term, until I get new rims and tires all the way around.

[2RARE84s]

So does anyone have two 235/55-16 or 245/50-16 for sale... :)

[BonzoHansen]

Not exactly what I am saying...just trying to get to the root issue by looking at the facts.

Where do they rub?

For the record, most 3rd gens with 16" rims had rubbing issues.

[2RARE84s]

Not exactly what I am saying...just trying to get to the root issue by looking at the facts.

Where do they rub?

For the record, most 3rd gens with 16" rims had rubbing issues.

It is hard to describe where they rub.. They rub in 3 (or more) places, in the front of the wheel well (farthest front portion of the car), on the inside (close to the rotors) front of the wheel well, and on the back side (close to the rotors) of the wheel well.

[//<86TA>\\]

did it just happen after the k-member? did you have the wheels/tires before with no issues?

what k-member is it?

[2RARE84s]

did it just happen after the k-member? did you have the wheels/tires before with no issues?

what k-member is it?

I was actually talking about the pitman arm assembly, I'm not sure why I referred to it as a K member .... :-? But yes, I had the wheels and tires on there before I did this work and they didn't rub, but I believe that is because there was so much slack in the suspension.

[WildBillyT]

Rare-

So what exactly did you change in the steering system?

[2RARE84s]

Rare-

So what exactly did you change in the steering system?

Everything that was changed is as follows: Center Link (pitman arm), Idler arms, Tie rods, lower ball joints, swaybar bushings, springs (stock).

I think that is it.

[BonzoHansen]

For the record, a center link (14) is not a pitman arm (13).

http://econtent.autozone.com:24991/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images//0900c152/80/09/92/da//large/0900c152800992da.gif (http://www.autozone.com/addVehicleId,1633202/initialAction,repairGuide/shopping/repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c152800992d9)

Based on that, my guess is the rubbing is more due to alignment changes, specifically caster. But I'd really have to see it.

[2RARE84s]

:) It's been a while since I have actually worked on an American car.... Thanks for the refresher.

The guy that did this work and the alignment said he did the alignment twice because when he drove the car the first time he felt a vibration. So it is possible that he over corrected somehow.

[bandit88]

For the record, a center link (14) is not a pitman arm (13).

http://econtent.autozone.com:24991/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images//0900c152/80/09/92/da//large/0900c152800992da.gif (http://www.autozone.com/addVehicleId,1633202/initialAction,repairGuide/shopping/repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c152800992d9)

Based on that, my guess is the rubbing is more due to alignment changes, specifically caster. But I'd really have to see it.

ohhhhh ahhhh an exploded view
i love those things

[BonzoHansen]

:) It's been a while since I have actually worked on an American car.... Thanks for the refresher.

The guy that did this work and the alignment said he did the alignment twice because when he drove the car the first time he felt a vibration. So it is possible that he over corrected somehow.

Alignment does not cause vibrations (assuming it was 'in the ballpark').

How does the car drive?

[2RARE84s]

The car drives fine. i don't feel any vibration and it drives straight.

[BonzoHansen]

When do the tires rub, full turn (like parking)?

[BigAls87Z28]

Sounds like you might possibly have an offset problem. Thoes arent IROC's onthere, they look like wheels off an S10 or something.
225/60-16 shouldnt rub at all, even being bigger. IMO, you have a wheel problem.

[2RARE84s]

When do the tires rub, full turn (like parking)?

They will rub whenever I turn the wheel enough to one side, even when taking sharp corners.

[2RARE84s]

Sounds like you might possibly have an offset problem. Thoes arent IROC's onthere, they look like wheels off an S10 or something.
225/60-16 shouldnt rub at all, even being bigger. IMO, you have a wheel problem.

Yeah, I don't like the rims that are on there, and plan to get new ones. I was just hoping that in the mean time I could remedy the problem by either getting 2 used tires or putting spacers up front.

[BonzoHansen]

Good call Al, I thought they were camaro wheels.

[PolarBear]

For the record, most 3rd gens with 16" rims had rubbing issues.

My stock size 245/50-16s on my 88 on factory (and correct fr/rear offsets in the correct place) crosslace wheels would rub on the plastic fender liner. Rubs with the 275/40-17 firehawk wheels too.

Is it rubbing on the plastic fender liner, or is it on steel somewhere?

[2RARE84s]

My stock size 245/50-16s on my 88 on factory (and correct fr/rear offsets in the correct place) crosslace wheels would rub on the plastic fender liner. Rubs with the 275/40-17 firehawk wheels too.

Is it rubbing on the plastic fender liner, or is it on steel somewhere?

Both.

[PolarBear]

I wouldnt worry about the plastic lines too much but you have avoided the "where is it rubbing" question several times now. What piece of steel is it rubbing on?

[2RARE84s]

I wouldnt worry about the plastic lines too much but you have avoided the "where is it rubbing" question several times now. What piece of steel is it rubbing on?

I answered that question earlier.. Read some of the last posts. It is hard to describe where it is rubbing. I will have to take pictures of everything.

[chrisfrom nj]

http://cnj.craigslist.org/pts/844735191.html
pick these wheels up

[deadtrend1]

http://cnj.craigslist.org/pts/844735191.html
pick these wheels up

how does that help his current rubbing issue?

I always had my 16x8's rub when I turned the wheel to the max one way or another.

[2RARE84s]

http://cnj.craigslist.org/pts/844735191.html
pick these wheels up

I would DEFINITELY pick those up if they were all 18s!

[2RARE84s]

Here are some pictures of where it is rubbing, I think I have a combination of 2 problems. The tires are too tall, and the offset on the wheels is off. So I am taking suggestions on what new wheels and tires to buy.. :nod:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/brain082883/IMGP7385.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/brain082883/IMGP7388.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/brain082883/IMGP7389-1.jpg

[sweetbmxrider]

wow deff something wrong with your wheels and tires IMO

[2RARE84s]

wow deff something wrong with your wheels and tires IMO

yeah, that's what i said.. :)

[BonzoHansen]

Back to what Al said about offset.. Combine that with a taller tire and that is likey your issue. Maybe you could borrow a set of correct wheels & check

[PolarBear]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e327/brain082883/IMGP7389-1.jpg

Yeah looks like the tire is just too tall. You CAN remove that bracket if it interferes with the driving/handling. It is only a brace that was added in the later years. Some of the other rubbing is common but the one is I think an offset problem

[2RARE84s]

Back to what Al said about offset.. Combine that with a taller tire and that is likey your issue. Maybe you could borrow a set of correct wheels & check

Yeah, that is what I think it is too. I guess I will just have to either get some smaller tires up front for the time being, or just deal with it until I get the new rims and tires.

[2RARE84s]

Yeah looks like the tire is just too tall. You CAN remove that bracket if it interferes with the driving/handling. It is only a brace that was added in the later years. Some of the other rubbing is common but the one is I think an offset problem

I might try that too, but I really need new rims and tires anyway.

[BigAls87Z28]

Id pick up a set of IROC's or any sort of 16's for a third gen off ebay or what have you.

[CHRIS67]

That is a serious rub! From the look of the pics I think a spacer would only cause the tire to rub on the outside fender. Maybe someone here can loan you a stock pair of Iroc and see if it is a suspension issue or a wheel issue.

[The Fixer]

Guys, the wheels he's using are roughly 4" backspacing (0" offset). I had a set of those on my old Monte SS. If he uses IROC wheels or any other 3rd-gen 16" front wheel he'll still have the same problem, since they have the same offset. The problem is, his car originally came with 15" wheels and they have a different steering box. He needs a steering box off a car that came equipped with 16's from the factory. They have the internal stops set in a different place so the wheel can't turn in as far. That ends the rubbing issue. :)

[2RARE84s]

Guys, the wheels he's using are roughly 4" backspacing (0" offset). I had a set of those on my old Monte SS. If he uses IROC wheels or any other 3rd-gen 16" front wheel he'll still have the same problem, since they have the same offset. The problem is, his car originally came with 15" wheels and they have a different steering box. He needs a steering box off a car that came equipped with 16's from the factory. They have the internal stops set in a different place so the wheel can't turn in as far. That ends the rubbing issue. :)

I plan to get 18"s, what should I keep in mind when getting them?

[BonzoHansen]

I thought the 16" wheel cars got stops on the control arms.

[2RARE84s]

I thought the 16" wheel cars got stops on the control arms.

This was an original 15" car. The guy I bought the car from put those wheels on it.

[BonzoHansen]

I meant Steve's comment about internal box stops.

[The Fixer]

I thought the 16" wheel cars got stops on the control arms.

I'm pretty sure all 3rd-gens had wheel stops on the A-arms. In fact, the A-arms on my Monte originally came off an '84ish Firebird and it had huge wheel stops on it. But the steering stops are different internally on the steering boxes from the 16" F-cars; G-body guys swap them in for the same reason, to avoid the inner fender rubbing.

[BonzoHansen]

I did not realize the boxes had different stops too.

[deadtrend1]

.... They have the internal stops set in a different place so the wheel can't turn in as far. That ends the rubbing issue. :)

Steve, I never heard of that. The only difference in the steering boxes I know of is the ratio. I went from a standard TA box to the quick ratio GTA box and didn't notice a difference on how far I can turn the wheels.

[The Fixer]

I did find one site on the net that lists the differences here - http://www.camarotech.com/steering.html

But, here's the basic run-down. GM steering box P/N 7839897 (stamped WS) travels 35 degrees, and GM steering box P/N 7843512 (stamped HX) travels 32 degrees. So, if you have 16x8" or larger wheels, you really should run the HX box to avoid fenderwell issues.

The performance G-body box travels 39 degrees which is even worse, and why a lot of guys I know with huge wheels up front (like 9" wide) swap to the F-body box. It's not an issue on my car, since I only have 8" wide wheels, and the G-body fenderwell is huge compared to the F-body. :)