Pissed about SLP's Firehawk G8?

[Savage_Messiah]

If you haven't heard about it, yet, SLP is bringing back the Firehawk bage to use on... v6, v8 and SC'd v8 G8's.

http://photos.imageevent.com/davidhamburger/slp/Firehawk_teaser1.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/davidhamburger/slp/Firehawk_teaser2.jpg

Pissed about it? Let it out to Dave Hamburger at SLP... two threads on LS1tech where the ****'s sky high already:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=989172

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10150077

[SteveR]

Yet another company rehashing an old name to cash in. Way to go.

[WildBillyT]

Makes 0 sense. That's like naming the new Volt the Chevelle.

[ShadowHawk]

That's like naming the new Volt the Chevelle.

...haven't you heard?? :rofl:

[enRo]

looks like ****ing ass... gg SLP

[Frosty]

Yeah they're getting ripped pretty hard about it...and rightfully so.

[Savage_Messiah]

Yeah they're getting ripped pretty hard about it...and rightfully so.

And no mods holding people back... instead you got nine ball ripping them as much as anyone. I f'ing love it.

[Knipps]

It's a poor excuse for a lack of creativity.

& The guy repeating "It's a done deal" just pisses me off more. :evil:

[12secondv6]

Posted my 2 cents.

[WildBillyT]

& The guy repeating "It's a done deal" just pisses me off more. :evil:

Fine, go ahead. See how it sells, jerks.

[LTb1ow]

Will this lower the price commanded for a real Firehawk?

[Blackbirdws6]

If they called it something different it wouldn't bother me. I do think it's even dumber to call models lower than the top-of-the-line firehawk. I got a firehawk V6 G8.......yea that doesn't work.

[JL8Jeff]

That's just stupid to ruin the name "Firehawk".

[mtg6486]

the whole theme is wrong. FIREBIRD, TRAN AM BIG f***ing bird on the hood it makes sense and goes with those cars. this is just retarted

[SteveR]

I just read through those threads. That Dave guy at SLP sounds like a real pompous arrogant ass. Eff SLP, their crap was over priced to begin with.

[LTb1ow]

SLP means guaranteed performance. HA.

[iamsickofitall]

i opened my mouth too

[WildBillyT]

WS6 owners might want to head on out to get some lube since I'm sure your time will come.

QFT

[ins0mnia24]

Like it matters anyways
Most of the people that are passionate about these cars and bitching about it can't and couldnt afford to buy them brand new, Instead they have to wait for the 2nd or 3rd owner to sell it where it is finally at a price that they can afford..

The only thing I see wrong with it is allowing it to be badged on a V6..
A 2-door would be awesome..

[BurninrubberGT]

used to love slp, but with this move, i may stay away from them, thats the biggest crap i hav e ever heard....

[SteveR]

So I make a post replying to one of that homo over at SLPs attack against someone and his stays and mine gets deleted. I guess the people over at LS1tech are a bunch of fags too.

[Tru2Chevy]

Yea, as much as they don't agree with the idea, they have to protect their interests too, and SLP is a sponsor.

- Justin

[SteveR]

Thats ghey. That no good assclown gets to spout his mouth off to people and replies are deleted. Good thing I never went to that site before today and wasted my time there.

[NastyEllEssWon]

this is the dumbest thing ive ever heard. a badass firebird, firehawk. i see the connection.
this pontiac g8 should be called something different. since its a 4 door gto i can see them going out and calling this a Tempest.

and to the person that wished it two door. they make em. theyre called gto's

[Knipps]

this is the dumbest thing ive ever heard. a badass firebird, firehawk. i see the connection.
this pontiac g8 should be called something different. since its a 4 door gto i can see them going out and calling this a Tempest.

and to the person that wished it two door. they make em. theyre called gto's

A new GTO hasn't rolled off the line in years

[enRo]

and to the person that wished it two door. they used to make em. theyre called gto's

fixed.

[NastyEllEssWon]

theyre still available, its not like its a hard to find car. go to any random gm dealer and youll see like 5 gto's sitting there not being bought until they price drop then down a little over 12

[enRo]

theyre still available, its not like its a hard to find car. go to any random gm dealer and youll see like 5 gto's sitting there not being bought until they price drop then down a little over 12

Trust me, I know :lol: I went GTO shopping last year and the one goat I found that I was on the verge of signing papers for, I decided to head home and think it over. Typed the VIN in google, came across a post on LS2 forums... someone posted the VIN and suspected the car he just purchased was involved in a wreck. Come to find out it was not only involved in a wreck, it was stolen too :shock: .

[NJSPEEDER]

It is marketing, get over it.

[ShadowHawk]

I left my .02, though it'll probably get deleted by the vagina moderators on LS1 Tech, my thoughts...in case they disappear over there.

I'm amazed this is such a surprise to everyone. Yea I agree, dubbing this Firehawk is a direct slap in the face to the namesake, but GM's been sucking wind for years now. They'll bastardize any name imaginable to try and make a quick buck. Look at the "GTO"...lame. Now a new "Firehawk" 4 DOOR?! Congrats, you dropped the ball again, surprise surprise.

Look at the SS namesake, it means dirt now. Any pile of crap with an added 15-20hp gets an "SS" badge, YAY!! :wrist:

Keep an eye out, soon every GM car/truck with a supercharger will be dubbed "ZR1" because they "don't want to let the name die"...at least, not with dignity anyway. :D

Hate to be a hater but I hope this thing bites it, BIG TIME. GM deserves to take the hit for this intelligence failure of epic proportions. :bang:

But hey...at least the half dozen Firehawk owners who were used as consultants will buy one! :supergay:

[LTb1ow]

Its funny that across the internet, I think on every board, there is a similar thread condemning this action, but yet the enthusiasts have no actual say in the matter.

[mtg6486]

yea all we can do is just bitch and moan and there still going to do it. its all about $ they dont care about the customers

[LS1Hawk]

Ed Hamburger is a jerk. Up until 5 mins ago, I liked SLP. But this is a TOTAL disgrace. Saying the enthusiasts don't matter. The original Firehawk IS an enthusiast's car. What enthusiasts does SLP think they will attract with this? All the G8 enthusiasts? Because if SLP hasn't noticed, that car isn't selling.

[LTb1ow]

But isn't the cold truth that most of the enthusiasts of the car, can't afford it anyway? So really they are trying to market it to a group that can afford it and don't realize the meaning behind the badging.

[Featherburner]

Ed Hamburger is a jerk. Up until 5 mins ago, I liked SLP. But this is a TOTAL disgrace. I don't think Ed Hamburger owns SLP anymore. Does he?

[DaSkinnyGuy]

Ok they failed the drug test, this is the firehawk....................

http://www.fquick.com/videos/1992_Firehawk_/138


This is as bad as the new knight rider being a mustang.

[BigAls87Z28]

Hahaha...well, when Dave Hamburger said to a crowd of us at the CZ28 summit that they would be brining back the Firehawk name on the G8, the 2 Firehawk owners rolled thier eyes.
I looked at my table and someone goes "well, that should go over well with the Firebird fanboys."
I said "who cares...thier car is dead anyway. But Im sure this will be trumped up and bitched and moan about it"

For thoes that do give a ****, this same package or packages will be availble for the Camaro as well.

[DaSkinnyGuy]

i asked dave if i could turn my moms chevy cobalt into a firehawk cobalt.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10156864&posted=1#post10156864

[BigAls87Z28]

Everyone's acting like they are putting this package on the ****in Vibe or the G6?

[DaSkinnyGuy]

The name i just came up with do you like it?

Pontiac Shaker G8 by SLP performance. the shaker will shake the competion up and the ground when its massive v8 is let loose.

[91DropTop]

Everyone's acting like they are putting this package on the ****in Vibe or the G6?

they may as well...why not just throw some gsr swirls and a type r on it too

[SteveR]

I'm thinking that Dave Hamburger a-hole is in charge of SLP now. Since those brown nosers over at LS1tech decided to delete my posts, I'll share with you how clueless he is. Someone posted about how ghey the V6 would be and something about how why doesnt GM just throw some stickers on a stock G8 if its going to be that stupid, and Dave writes back "Firehawks were never built on GMs assembly line, they were all built on SLP's assembly line." That moron didn't even know that they were in fact built on GMs assembly line, and the Firebirds were then sent to SLP for modification. SLP doesnt even have an assembly line! Then for that retard to insult one of the posters was ridiculous. But the ass licking mods over there left all of Dave's posts up, but deleted a lot of the ones that call him out.

[BigAls87Z28]

In the end, Firehawk is owned by SLP, not GM.

I also have a few Firehawk G8 poster things if anyone wants them. They look like the one posted on page 1.

[NastyEllEssWon]

this car is on par with the conversions they did on the gtp's. why not keep that going Pontiac G8 GTX. this is just milking a dying cow now. i never thought slp really had the greatest parts for our cars. the only thing i would ever own would be a firehawk. no more. theyve just dragged that name through the mud IMO


i also agree with the people that say gm ruined the SS badge. theyre really missing the point time and time again.

[Mike]

novas, malibus, and monte carlos were just regular old cars before the ss badge, they arent doing anything different now, you just dont think about the base model straight six glide cars.

im upset that everyone thinks my truck was a waste of the badge

[BigAls87Z28]

this car is on par with the conversions they did on the gtp's. why not keep that going Pontiac G8 GTX. this is just milking a dying cow now. i never thought slp really had the greatest parts for our cars. the only thing i would ever own would be a firehawk. no more. theyve just dragged that name through the mud IMO


i also agree with the people that say gm ruined the SS badge. theyre really missing the point time and time again.

On par with GTP's? Obviously you have never driven the G8. There is nothing the GP is equal too on the G8. Nothing.
GM ruined the SS badge how? Turbo 4's? 400hp SUV's?
The SS badge was placed on a few sad vehicles, but every SS car now has to meet a certain criteria.
If it wasnt built by GMPD, then its not a real SS.

novas, malibus, and monte carlos were just regular old cars before the ss badge, they arent doing anything different now, you just dont think about the base model straight six glide cars.

im upset that everyone thinks my truck was a waste of the badge

I dont think it was. I got to drive your truck at Indy as well Mike...man that thing is fun in the turns!

[NastyEllEssWon]

the on par i meant is that it looks similar to their conversions done to the grand prix of the 90s it would be better to continue that style of badges going than dragging the firehawk name through the mud.


theres a few ss packages that are worth it but when you can order an n/a 2.4 5 speed cobalt with ss badges it demeans the value of the s/c or turbo ones. like you said there have been a few other namesakes that are questionable....


malibu maxxx ss???:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[BigAls87Z28]

The Malibu, former Impy and Monte SS's, and the old 2.4 Cobalt were "mistakes" and Chevy has fessed up about it. The new Malibu has no sport package, the 2.4 Cobalt is the "sport" trim, and the Impy is equiped with some GMPD equipment.

[firehawk1120]

As a firehawk owner I'm not surprised by this at all. SLP has always done stuff to try to keep a dying fan base. Their site is garbage, they used to have a message forum where all the firehawk owners, ss owners, etc. for the cars they enhanced, NOT MADE, were able to BS and ask questions about their cars, get production numbers but they took it down claiming it was too expensive to maintain.

Trust me their quality control is AWFUL, my car took almost 5 months the 1st time and about the same the 2nd time and they could never tell me where the car was. Just that GM didn't have it anymore and it was somewhere on their lot. Great thanks. Then one day it just shows up at the dealership with no warning or notice. Having one I can tell you I'm not one of the owners that thinks it's any better, faster, more expensive then any other T/A out there. Just some simple body mods, and minor upgrades here and there. If I had to do it again I probably wouldn't spend the extra dough just for the name.

I think true car enthusiasts will know the original firebird Hawks from this pathetic attempt to keep the name out there. They are a business and in the end the only thing that EVER really matters is the bottom line not the customers or their feelings.

[Savage_Messiah]

The one thign I gotta say is, regardless of name, warratied supercharged G8 is ****ign badass.

[LS1Hawk]

I said "who cares...thier car is dead anyway. But Im sure this will be trumped up and bitched and moan about it"

Everyone's acting like they are putting this package on the ****in Vibe or the G6?

Honestly Al, what if GM said screw the enthusiasts, we'll modify a Malibu and throw the Camaro name on it. Oh, it has four doors? Who cares about that. I'm sure you'd be the first to "bitch and moan." I have nothing against the G8, it's a great car. But they should create a separate legacy for it. And maybe it's just me, but how do you call a car with a name G8 a Firehawk? Pontiac threw out all their great names, they shouldn't try to put another back on it.

Edit: I meant to say David previously. I guess I'm so use to Ed being at the helm, but I guess he's not anymore.

[NJSPEEDER]

I can not get over the comedy of so many people blaming GM for this. Guess what folks, they are in the business of selling cars, something they have done well for 100 years now. They know they can roll up another few thousand units a year with special editions, why else do you think the 4th gen ram air birds, camaro SS' , and even the Firehawk even existed?

GM has partnered with SLP on a lot of special projects for more than 20 years now. Just because the F-body ended for a while didn't mean that relationship was going to end.

[BigAls87Z28]

Honestly Al, what if GM said screw the enthusiasts, we'll modify a Malibu and throw the Camaro name on it. Oh, it has four doors? Who cares about that. I'm sure you'd be the first to "bitch and moan." I have nothing against the G8, it's a great car. But they should create a separate legacy for it. And maybe it's just me, but how do you call a car with a name G8 a Firehawk? Pontiac threw out all their great names, they shouldn't try to put another back on it.

Edit: I meant to say David previously. I guess I'm so use to Ed being at the helm, but I guess he's not anymore.

GM and Pontiac have nothing to do with this.
This is SLP only. Its a package you can buy through dealers, not through GM. This is like the Bobcat packages for the GTO.

[Frosty]

GM and Pontiac have nothing to do with this.
This is SLP only.

Yup, what he said. It's SLP's name and trademark, they can do what they want with it but it still doesn't excuse the retardedness(is that even a word? lol).

Their explanation is comical too..."we spoke to a bunch of Firehawk owners"...really? The ones I'm seeing don't seem to agree with SLP. It's a marketing ploy which is fine...but the people who are car guys KNOW the Firehawk name know it's BS...the average person that's looking for a "special car" could probably care less what the name of it is...it just doesn't make sense to me.

[WildBillyT]

Honestly Al, what if GM said screw the enthusiasts, we'll modify a Malibu and throw the Camaro name on it. Oh, it has four doors? Who cares about that. I'm sure you'd be the first to "bitch and moan." I have nothing against the G8, it's a great car. But they should create a separate legacy for it. And maybe it's just me, but how do you call a car with a name G8 a Firehawk? Pontiac threw out all their great names, they shouldn't try to put another back on it.

Edit: I meant to say David previously. I guess I'm so use to Ed being at the helm, but I guess he's not anymore.

Hawk-

The Malibu name got ****ed to begin with.

Part of me isn't surprised. A lot of companies are whoring name recognition or "retro" stuff.

[LS1Hawk]

I'm not blaming GM for this. I know this isn't GM's doing. I was just making a hypothetical statement using the Malibu and Camaro. I know SLP owns the Firehawk name. I just thought they would have exercised some more common sense.

[ShadowHawk]

Hahaha...well, when Dave Hamburger said to a crowd of us at the CZ28 summit that they would be brining back the Firehawk name on the G8, the 2 Firehawk owners rolled thier eyes.
I looked at my table and someone goes "well, that should go over well with the Firebird fanboys."
I said "who cares...thier car is dead anyway. But Im sure this will be trumped up and bitched and moan about it"

Big Al, the number 1 source of F-body ****-talking on the web. :mrgreen:

Damn Firebird fanboys...not like Al, he's a ****in "F-body guru"...but, only if they're Camaro's...oh, and only if they're 2nd gen or 2010. :drool: Al has to change pants every time someone mentions the 2010 Camaro. For those counting that's 2x in this last paragraph. The rest, **** em...especially the 4th gen boys. YUKKK!!! 2nd gen is where it's at!

Meanwhile, when the rest of us see a 2nd gen we get the urge to grow a mulltet, get a can of Bud, shoot a possum, slap our sisters in the jaw and change our name to "cLEeTUs".

Hate to say it Al, but a lot of those Firebird fanboys who are pissed, at least many on LS1 Tech, are 10x the F-body enthusiast you'll ever be. Only reason you don't give 2 ****s about the Firehawk name is because it's 4th gen and Firebird related.

Like someone said, if they slapped the Camaro name tag on a Chevy Malibu your vag would twitch like it had sand in it!

[NJSPEEDER]

You just made yourself the perfect example of the kind of person Al was referring to. Congrats.

[ShadowHawk]

What can I say, the truth's a bitch.

[foff667]

Factory warrantied supercharged G8 sounds good enough to me to carry the firehawk nametag :shrug:

As stated its a business and I don't think G8 owners will be against it ;)

[NJSPEEDER]

Camaro owners won't be against it either since both platforms have very very similar engine compartments :)

It is more about the fact that Shadowhawk and those who think like him seem to only be prepared to accept one version of the world, a world at which the Firebird is the pony car centerpiece. Unfortunately, it is a world that never existed, which is why the Camaro was picked over the Firebird for the return.

Without that version of reality, some seem unable to accept that GM, SLP, and performance enthusiasts all over the world have managed to go on with our lives in such a happy and content manner.

I just can't imagine how much uproar there would be had the 4th gen Firehawks actually been a major performance upgrade like the 3rd gens were or the G8 version will be. That would have really turned their world on it's head.

[SteveR]

I really don't care that they're building an SLP G8. Great. The Firehawk and SS were the only SLP cars that made them money, and now that GM is building the SS, I guess they don't have the creativity to come up with a new name for their G8, so they use an old one. By doing so, they've alienated their customer base that they would be marketing to. It really doesn't matter anyway. If nobody is buying the G8 at 5k under sticker, I really don't think anyone will buy a $40k one. My issue is the arrogance of that Dave prick at SLP. Not only does he have no creativity, but he has the guts to insult his customers in a public forum, then those brown nosing asshats over at LS1tech leave all his posts up and edit or delete everyone elses. In the end, I really don't care, I wouldn't buy one anyway.

[NJSPEEDER]

I don't think they have alienated any potential customers. They get to throw a shiney, flashed up special edition out there with the closest thing they have to a name that is recognizable to the masses. Having a few people who drive and shop two doors upset about a badge on a four door doesn't really cost you anything.

Unless the offended shopper in question needs and desires a G8 GT and is so desperately loyal to the old Firehawk as to skip the warranty covered performance upgrades they want, then it could cost them a good dozen sales a year.

Take a niche car, make a niche special edition, and you are left with a very small target audience. Internet hype one way or the other isn't going to do much to bother such a select group of potential shoppers.

[Jersey_TA]

:barf::barf::barf::barf::barf::barf:

I think alot.....and I do mean ALOT of people would be happy with the name change to GX8.

[SteveR]

But the name thats recognizable to the masses offends those that recognize it, thus, previous and current Firehawk owners wont even consider it. I'm sure this thing wont be cheap, its SLP after all, nothing they sell is reasonably priced. Whats the target audience for this? I bet the SMS Challenger will be close in price, and do you think people are going to buy this hopped up four door sedan thats pissed a lot of people off, or a Saleen Challenger making 700hp? The G8 doesnt even sell now, so why would anybody spend an extra 10k on one?

[WildBillyT]

I think the real thing that SLP is missing is that the name makes no sense. Yes, it's recognizable to those that know what a Firehawk is (most don't).

BUT THE CAR'S NAME HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FIRE OR BEING A BIRD LIKE THE PREVIOUS INCARNATION OF THE NAME!

Are they REALLY that strapped for creativity?

[Untamed]

I look at the results of the 2004-6 GTO, and can't help but apply that to SLPs decision to use an existing name. While there was criticism about the car itself (GTO), most of the discussion was about the use of the name. The G8 Firehawk is likely generating the same type of discussion - the car is great but please change the name.

[ShadowHawk]

I think the real thing that SLP is missing is that the name makes no sense. Yes, it's recognizable to those that know what a Firehawk is (most don't).

BUT THE CAR'S NAME HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FIRE OR BEING A BIRD LIKE THE PREVIOUS INCARNATION OF THE NAME!

Are they REALLY that strapped for creativity?

I look at the results of the 2004-6 GTO, and can't help but apply that to SLPs decision to use an existing name. While there was criticism about the car itself (GTO), most of the discussion was about the use of the name. The G8 Firehawk is likely generating the same type of discussion - the car is great but please change the name.

:nod: :nod: :nod:


What people like NJSPEEDER don't seem to get is SLP is taking a name that not only has ZERO to do with the car, but also has a reputation, and marketing it to a "target audience" that won't get it. You people can talk niche markets, target audiences and the like til you're all blue in the face if it makes you feel smart, but dumb is dumb. They missed their target, same with the GTO. I understand their motives behind doing it, but their logic is flawed.

As Nineball pointed out on LS1 Tech, their target audience is pretty much the consumer buying BMW or Mercedes sports sedans or the like. Those people, aside from not knowing or giving a rat's ass about the Firehawk name, will probably frown upon it.

Not to say they're all like this, but to the average self-important BMW/Benz owner the words Firebird and Camaro mean low-class. If you ask them we're all a bunch of rednecks. They buy BMW and Mercedes cars to make themselves feel like high class big shots, and no matter how you package it a Pontiac will never hit that market. It'll just never be "spohisticated" enough for them.

And since Firehawk is associated with the Firebird, the new G8 will come off as the same. Not to mention the fact that, though it looked good up til 02, the Firehawk logo is a bit outdated for a new car, and the new tacky stripe or graphic package, whatever you want to call it, screams NO-CLASS.

And PS: my "one version of the world" is in your mind my son. I have no problem with the use of the Firehawk name, just not on some 4 door wanna-be sports car(it's nice for what it is but it's not a sports car). They brought CAmaro back because it was what began the GM ponycar herritage. They finally realized that it made no sense to produce 2 cars nearly identical. If you think it's for any other reason that you must have hit your head.

[Mike]

Big Al, the number 1 source of F-body ****-talking on the web. :mrgreen:

Damn Firebird fanboys...not like Al, he's a ****in "F-body guru"...but, only if they're Camaro's...oh, and only if they're 2nd gen or 2010. :drool: Al has to change pants every time someone mentions the 2010 Camaro. For those counting that's 2x in this last paragraph. The rest, **** em...especially the 4th gen boys. YUKKK!!! 2nd gen is where it's at!

Meanwhile, when the rest of us see a 2nd gen we get the urge to grow a mulltet, get a can of Bud, shoot a possum, slap our sisters in the jaw and change our name to "cLEeTUs".

Hate to say it Al, but a lot of those Firebird fanboys who are pissed, at least many on LS1 Tech, are 10x the F-body enthusiast you'll ever be. Only reason you don't give 2 ****s about the Firehawk name is because it's 4th gen and Firebird related.

Like someone said, if they slapped the Camaro name tag on a Chevy Malibu your vag would twitch like it had sand in it!


umm so al is stereotyped for camaros just like you are against them? you can say you want to grow a mullet, but don't you DARE say "the rest of us" al "only likes second gens and 2010's" well your post makes it seem like you only think 4th gens exist
your post made you sound like a complete tool, congratulations

btw al owns a third gen

[BonzoHansen]

The G8 doesnt even sell now, so why would anybody spend an extra 10k on one?You got that right. PMD is DOA

[Mike]

:nod: :nod: :nod:


What people like NJSPEEDER don't seem to get is SLP is taking a name that not only has ZERO to do with the car, but also has a reputation, and marketing it to a "target audience" that won't get it. You people can talk niche markets, target audiences and the like til you're all blue in the face if it makes you feel smart, but dumb is dumb. They missed their target, same with the GTO. I understand their motives behind doing it, but their logic is flawed.

As Nineball pointed out on LS1 Tech, their target audience is pretty much the consumer buying BMW or Mercedes sports sedans or the like. Those people, aside from not knowing or giving a rat's ass about the Firehawk name, will probably frown upon it.

Not to say they're all like this, but to the average self-important BMW/Benz owner the words Firebird and Camaro mean low-class. If you ask them we're all a bunch of rednecks. They buy BMW and Mercedes cars to make themselves feel like high class big shots, and no matter how you package it a Pontiac will never hit that market. It'll just never be "spohisticated" enough for them.

And since Firehawk is associated with the Firebird, the new G8 will come off as the same. Not to mention the fact that, though it looked good up til 02, the Firehawk logo is a bit outdated for a new car, and the new tacky stripe or graphic package, whatever you want to call it, screams NO-CLASS.

And PS: my "one version of the world" is in your mind my son. I have no problem with the use of the Firehawk name, just not on some 4 door wanna-be sports car(it's nice for what it is but it's not a sports car). They brought CAmaro back because it was what began the GM ponycar herritage. They finally realized that it made no sense to produce 2 cars nearly identical. If you think it's for any other reason that you must have hit your head.

all that matters is that slp is taking THEIR NAME and using it on whatever THEY want. there's a lot of people hating on this car and no one saying they will buy it if its another name

bmw and mercedes people will frown on it, you mean like they do the M-series or dinan bmw's or the amg merc's? people that buy those cars just because of the name plate will buy the "firehawk" just because it is the most expensive option package available

[ShadowHawk]

umm so al is stereotyped for camaros just like you are against them? you can say you want to grow a mullet, but don't you DARE say "the rest of us" al "only likes second gens and 2010's" well your post makes it seem like you only think 4th gens exist
your post made you sound like a complete tool, congratulations

btw al owns a third gen

Say whatever you like, but from 74-81 F-bodies went to ****. Slow, tacky, and ugly comes to mind. They were like the Mustang II of the F-body world. Most are still trying to forget they existed. 1st, some of 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation I love F-bodies and would never completely play one of the 2 cars off like Al seems to do. That "their car's dead anyway" comment was a douchbag remark. Who exactly in the **** are "they"?! Last I checked, we were all F-body guys here...with exception of Al.

And please point out to me where I said "I personally" don't like Camaro's. I hate them so much that I've probably owned more than many of the people here! But I love F-bodies, not JUST CAMAROS. While it seems that many others here seem to think the camaro is the be-all, end-all, and downplay Firebirds as if they're ****. Get real.

[BigAls87Z28]

Big Al, the number 1 source of F-body ****-talking on the web. :mrgreen:

Damn Firebird fanboys...not like Al, he's a ****in "F-body guru"...but, only if they're Camaro's...oh, and only if they're 2nd gen or 2010. :drool: Al has to change pants every time someone mentions the 2010 Camaro. For those counting that's 2x in this last paragraph. The rest, **** em...especially the 4th gen boys. YUKKK!!! 2nd gen is where it's at!

Meanwhile, when the rest of us see a 2nd gen we get the urge to grow a mulltet, get a can of Bud, shoot a possum, slap our sisters in the jaw and change our name to "cLEeTUs".]

First off, I also have a third gen.
4th gens have thier place in Fbody history, no doubt. I just dont like the look of them too much. Personally, Im not a huge fan of 74-81 Camaros either. In fact, it took a while for my 72 to grow on me.

Hate to say it Al, but a lot of those Firebird fanboys who are pissed, at least many on LS1 Tech, are 10x the F-body enthusiast you'll ever be. Only reason you don't give 2 ****s about the Firehawk name is because it's 4th gen and Firebird related.

10x the Fbody enthusiast then me? How so? Cause they spent more money on thier cars? They are faster then me? They have a 4th gen?
What makes them 10x the fbody enthusiast then me or then Ill ever be? Is it cause I made you all sad when I told you that 4th gens are ugly?

Justin said it best. You are the PRIME example of an on going problem WITHIN the Fbody community.
I dont get bent out of shape when you say that 2nd gens are for red necks.
I wasnt offended when people said the same with the 87. But I am growing tired of it. I dont know why it makes me a red neck when I own a 72, and you are just cool as hell with your 4th gen.

Like someone said, if they slapped the Camaro name tag on a Chevy Malibu your vag would twitch like it had sand in it!

If GM, understanding the 35 year history of the car, put a Camaro badge on a FWD Malibu coupe, lots of people would be upset.
This is a former Tier 1/2 company that owns the right to a trim package that dates back to...belive it or not....THE RED NECK THIRD GENS!
Yeah, remember that the Firehawk is NOT only 4th gen related. So that opens a massive and vast hole in your stupid argument.
Third Gen's started the Firehawk name. And it was a BIT different then just some wheels and a hood.

You just made yourself the perfect example of the kind of person Al was referring to. Congrats.

Exactly.
Thanks for playing.

[ShadowHawk]

10x the Fbody enthusiast then me? How so? Cause they spent more money on thier cars? They are faster then me? They have a 4th gen?
What makes them 10x the fbody enthusiast then me or then Ill ever be? Is it cause I made you all sad when I told you that 4th gens are ugly?

If GM, understanding the 35 year history of the car, put a Camaro badge on a FWD Malibu coupe, lots of people would be upset.
This is a former Tier 1/2 company that owns the right to a trim package that dates back to...belive it or not....THE RED NECK THIRD GENS!
Yeah, remember that the Firehawk is NOT only 4th gen related. So that opens a massive and vast hole in your stupid argument.
Third Gen's started the Firehawk name. And it was a BIT different then just some wheels and a hood.

Anyone ever tell you that you make an art form out of being a douchebag? You're like the Van Gogh of Assbaggery.

I didn't say I was a bigger enthusiast than you, so this is no personal attack because of some other dumbass comment you made. I couldn't give less of a **** what you or anyone else thinks of my car. I said THEY are 10x the enthusiast you are, because they recognize a bad idea when they hear one and stand up to it instead of sucking on GM's *** like you always do. They can never do wrong in your eyes, no matter how much they make a mochary of everything F-body. They could throw SS badges and Firehawk logo's on every econo-car known to man for all you care!

1,000,000,000 posts and being a founding member of some web based forum means jack to me. It doesn't make you any better an enthusiast than any other person here. At least everyone else steps up when they see a stupid idea.

And instead of trying to understand why your fellow community members are upset you say "**** it, their car's dead anyway"?! Why? Beceause you're a jackass. regardless of anything, if either the Firebird or Camaro name came into question, we'd all stand up, because we're F-body guys. You? As long as it doesn't desecrate your precious Camaro **** it, right? :moon:

To everyone else there's very little difference here between them using the Camaro name or the Firehawk name. Are you telling me if they put the Camaro name on a 4 door, even if it was RWD, you wouldn't be totally pissed?? Because I'll call ******** on that right now.

[WildBillyT]

Say whatever you like, but from 74-81 F-bodies went to ****. Slow, tacky, and ugly comes to mind. They were like the Mustang II of the F-body world. Most are still trying to forget they existed.


Second gens had sales numbers that you would not believe and I would assume are not aware of.

The 1979 Camaro sold 282,571 units. The ENTIRE RUN of 98-02 Camaros only totaled 207,591. That's 74,980 cars shy of ONE YEAR of 2nd gen production. They may not be what you like now but they sure were popular back then, and made GM a lot of money. 1979 second gen Birds did pretty well as well- with 211,454 units sold.

The 4th gens (both C+F) look good and performed better from the factory than every other previous generation- except in sales figures, where it really counts. We may love them but a lot of people did and do not.

[BonzoHansen]

The level of stupid in this thread is high.

IMO, using the name Firehawk on the G8 is stupid. It shows a lack of creativity and probably misses the target audience of the car anyway (just like GM did, I guess, based on the dismal sales). They could have done better. Of course to me this just punctuates the idea that the Firebird name is dead forever. And PMD is on life support.

The car in the poster is cool. I’d buy a used one.

Oh yeah, using the name Malibu is no big deal either, it was just a people mover. And “SS” was originally an appearance package. Get over it.

My $.02 from someone that has owned all gens. No mullet here. GFY

[Knipps]

The level of stupid in this thread is high.

QFT. :gheyfigh:

[BigAls87Z28]

Anyone ever tell you that you make an art form out of being a douchebag? You're like the Van Gogh of Assbaggery.

Anyone tell you to shut the **** up?

I didn't say I was a bigger enthusiast than you,

Hey asshat, I never said you were anything. I asked you what makes OTHER people 10x more of an enthusiast then me?
I only used you in saying that you are crying because of what I said about 4th gens.
I never made a personal attack reguarding your faith as an fbody fan, unlike you made such an attack on me. So who's the douchebag?

I said THEY are 10x the enthusiast you are, because they recognize a bad idea when they hear one and stand up to it instead of sucking on GM's *** like you always do.

Oh, so let me get this straight.
By saying everything GM makes sucks makes that person a 10x more enthusiastic then me about cars?
I, in fact, do "stand up" to GM products. I spent 2 hrs with REAL ENTHUSIASTS in Indy talking to John Fitzpatrick, Cheryl Piltcher and Al Oppenhiser, the 5th gen's production and marketing managers about what I think is wrong with the car along with several other people.
I have ripped plent of times into GM with articles I have writen over at GMI.
Do I defend certain GM cars based on stupid and factless accusations? Yes I do.

They can never do wrong in your eyes, no matter how much they make a mochary of everything F-body. They could throw SS badges and Firehawk logo's on every econo-car known to man for all you care!

GM isnt throwing Firehawk badges or logos onto everything. SLP is. THIS is why Im "****-sucking" GM because you, the uninformed douche bag that you are, are blaiming GM again for something that is NOT GM's call.

1,000,000,000 posts and being a founding member of some web based forum means jack to me. It doesn't make you any better an enthusiast than any other person here. At least everyone else steps up when they see a stupid idea.

I never said that I am a "better enthusiast" then anyone here. I never claim to be the greatest Fbody fan ever. And I never said that putting the Firehawk name on a G8 is a good or bad idea. I just said I didnt care, because its SLP's name to do with what they want. If a bunch of Firehawk owners want to complain about it, so be it.
Calling a FWD coupe a Camaro is one thing, giving a supercharged 460hp+ RWD, performance sedan the name "Firehawk" is a different animal. If you want to bitch and complain that much, fine. But IMO...its not THAT big of a deal.

And instead of trying to understand why your fellow community members are upset you say "**** it, their car's dead anyway"?! Why? Beceause you're a jackass. regardless of anything, if either the Firebird or Camaro name came into question, we'd all stand up, because we're F-body guys. You? As long as it doesn't desecrate your precious Camaro **** it, right? :moon:

Why does it make me a jackass? Cause you got upset by yet another thing I said? Did I hurt your feelings?
If you were a TRUE fbody fan, you wouldnt have sold the 5th gen up the river because "it looks different from the concept" in which you seem to have a vision problem. You gave it no chance, you have seen, felt, or driven nothing to even give you a remote idea on the ability of this car, yet you seem to have all the answers. Yeah, you would stand up for the Fbodies alright...right into bad mouthing it.

To everyone else there's very little difference here between them using the Camaro name or the Firehawk name. Are you telling me if they put the Camaro name on a 4 door, even if it was RWD, you wouldn't be totally pissed?? Because I'll call ******** on that right now.


I would be pissed, but its not like the called the G8 "Firebird Trans Am Firehawk"
I had the same reaction when everyone cried about teh GTO's "lack of style".
It didnt lack style...it was very nice looking. What it lacked was reproduction 1967 body pannels. Still doesnt mean that it was a less of a car.

You are comparing, like everyone else, a company owned name that is going to be used on a product sold by another company.
Where people pissed that "Loud Mouth" exhausts were available for Mustangs and Chargers?

I will agree that teh Firehawk name is just odd to put on the G8. It doesnt mesh well. But if people are gunna have a hissy fit over a badge, and not base any sort of opinon on the car itself, then you might need to step away from the keyboard for a while.

Stop being an asshat. You keep calling me out in stupid threads cause I said your precious 4th gens werent pretty.
Get over it.

[BigAls87Z28]

Let me put it another way.

Should ORIGNAL Firehawk guys, the ones that own 1 of 25 RACE PREPED Firehawks with custom built engines, ZF 6spd manual transmissions, along with a **** load of other equipment that they bought be pissed because all a 4th gen Firehawk was wheels, hood, and some stickers?
Understand the history of Firehawk before anyone starts making comments about certains people's enthusiasim.

[Mike]

you mean the firestone one that had the name before slp was a company? lol

[BigAls87Z28]

Ahaha..yeah, you could put on a mad tyte Firehawk tires on it.
It DOES have Bridgestones OE.

[NJSPEEDER]

I think the summary of Shadowhawk's position can go something like this WHHHAAAAA I WANT IT THIS WAY!!!! WHAAAAAA!!!! YOU SUCK IF YOU DON'T AGREE!!!! WHHHAAAAA

lol

Seriously man. I don't know what you are like in the real world, but in this thread you are coming off as a complete jackass. Name calling and basing assumptions about what gens and models were or weren't good based solely on opinions is just weakening your position more and more every time you post.

SLP decided to recycle the name plate but this time actually put some performance back behind it. Golly gee heck, won't all those BMW M-fans be disappointed when they are staring at G8 taillights.

[BigAls87Z28]

To anyone who hasnt, I suggest you schedual a ride in a G8. Especially if you plan on getting a Camaro.

[firehawk1120]

um just as an aside, SLP can't do **** to any GM vehicle without GM's approval. When you order the cars you order it through a GM dealership. It's not like you can order a base T/A and then send it to SLP and have them convert it to a Hawk. SO, in essence yes GM is signing on to the name. Just wanted to point that out to all you saying it's not GM's idea.

and there is a lot of immaturity in a thread about opinions, which are like a$&holes we all have them

[BigAls87Z28]

I didnt get the full lay out, but from what I understand, Firehawk packages will be sold through a dealer, not done by SLP prior to hitting dealers like the SS, WS6 and Firehawk cars prior.

Its not GM's idea. SLP and GM have zero ties anymore. Its a dealer package at best. Still doesnt matter, GM does not own the rights to the name of Firehawk. Firehawk is a SLP product.

[NastyEllEssWon]

either way....

the way i see it is, the firehawk namesake was a top of the line firebird. a sick firebird (thirdgen models). a meaner bird. a hawk. a firehawk. it doesnt make sense to use the namesake on the g8.

they should keep the GTX badge alive from the grand prix since the g8 is more along the lines of a grand prix than a firebird.


say what you guys want about second gens. are people forgetting that second gens include one of the nicest looks in history. THE SPLIT BUMPER Z.


oh and i dont understand why 2nd gen owners and 4th gen owners dont get along. dont you guys both realize that the styling for the 4th gens come from two different cars...

lt1 styled after the thirdgens
ls1 styled after the split bumper 2nd gens

http://theserviceadvisor.com/Mikcam2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48/Crabhart/new8.jpg


the bottom line is that its the same when the gto came out. its also the same with the new camaro. i got over the fact that the camaro is no longer an fbody. people will get over the fact that SLP is using the firehawk name.


the only way to get your point across to a company like this is to NOT BUY THE CAR. if you dont own it then you dont have a problem.

btw al is right though. slp already drug the hawk name through the mud with the lt1 style 'packages' and then once again with the ls1 packages. those were just flashy firebirds (as if the firebird wasnt already flashy enough).


long live the camaro

[Tru2Chevy]

lt1 styled after the thirdgens
ls1 styled after a catfish

Fixed! ;) (couldn't resist)

- Justin

[SteveR]

Ahaha..yeah, you could put on a mad tyte Firehawk tires on it.
It DOES have Bridgestones OE.

The car was named after the tire, as was the Comp T/A :)

[firehawk1120]

Al, what I was getting at is the ordering process comes from a GM dealership so they are the ones who willing accepted SLP's marketing. They could have said no give it another name.

Dealerships RARELY, if ever ordered SLP cars and had them on the lots everywhere I went they were special order and you have to pay for the SLP parts up front the dealership won't shell out the money and SLP won't do the work without being paid.

Both of my hawks had to be ordered and the only reason the 2nd one was less of a hassel is because Jay Fisher knows what they are. I had to explain it to the first dealership and they had to call their local rep to verify what the hell I was talking about.

SLP sucks.

[BigAls87Z28]

GM doesnt own any dealer.
How can GM tell another company who is independent of GM what to do to make money?
GM has no control over SLP marketing or selling of products designed, built and sold by SLP through dealers.

I would compare this to if SLP owned the rights to IROC, and they made an IROC Impala. People would be like wtf, but I wouldnt be too broken up about it.

[SteveR]

GM doesnt own any dealer.
How can GM tell another company who is independent of GM what to do to make money?
GM has no control over SLP marketing or selling of products designed, built and sold by SLP through dealers.

I would compare this to if SLP owned the rights to IROC, and they made an IROC Impala. People would be like wtf, but I wouldnt be too broken up about it.

I have some experience in this area.

For a company to be able to sell a brand product at a dealer, they have to be accepted and certified by the manufacturer (GM) as an Aftermarket OEM. GM would have to certify SLP and approve their product. The reason other than the obvious for the certification is so that GM can verify the quality of the components in the vehicle as meeting minimum standards, because the cars are sold with a GM warranty and they don't want to sell a car that'll need more work than the base model it's based on. So GM does take an active role in the process. The dealerships are all franchises and although independent of the parent company, they still all report to the parent company (GM). SLP is free to approach any dealer with a contract to have them sell their cars, assuming SLP has met GM's approval process. Another area where GM is involved is that once the customer orders the car, the order does go to SLP. However, the order then goes to GM so that GM can build the car with the SLP VIN tag. The car is then shipped to SLP so SLP can do the modifications to the car and add their package (Dave The Prick, the guy in charge of SLP, didn't know this). That being said, GM still has to approve the concept. Even a car sold through an A-OEM has an effect on GM's image and they want to control that. Further proof that GM is involved to some degree is that GM asked SLP to debut the car at Indy. SLP may be an independent company, but they can't design and sell a GM car at GM dealerships without GM approval first.

[BigAls87Z28]

Yes, SLP is one of the few performance groups that is GM certified. Scott made a point in saying it.

Point still stands, SLP owns the Firehawk name, GM cant do much if in the end it will sell more G8's with performance equipment that GM didnt have to foot the bill for, Im sure they will be plenty happy to sell that.

I still think a lot of people are missing the bigger picture. We are focusing on the NAME and not the products.

I did get to ride in an awesome supercharged G8 GT that is a company car for this suspension company called Pedders. Peddersusa.com is thier site, and let me tell you what...this thing handled 10x better then a regular G8 GT,and thats saying a lot.
You can check out the G8 GT on Pedder's website.

[NastyEllEssWon]

gm should strip them of their certified status

slp stands for Sucks Little... yeah anyway

[SteveR]

Yes, SLP is one of the few performance groups that is GM certified. Scott made a point in saying it.

Point still stands, SLP owns the Firehawk name, GM cant do much if in the end it will sell more G8's with performance equipment that GM didnt have to foot the bill for, Im sure they will be plenty happy to sell that.

I still think a lot of people are missing the bigger picture. We are focusing on the NAME and not the products.

I did get to ride in an awesome supercharged G8 GT that is a company car for this suspension company called Pedders. Peddersusa.com is thier site, and let me tell you what...this thing handled 10x better then a regular G8 GT,and thats saying a lot.
You can check out the G8 GT on Pedder's website.

I agree, I'm not saying the product is a dumb idea or that it'll suck. I think the idea of a high output G8 is interesting. Not quite sure why they picked a non selling car to do it with, but thats their choice. I think the name choice is stupid, but what really pissed me off was the arrogance of that Dave The Prick guy at SLP that doesnt even know how his own company works. I guess i really dont understand why they chose the G8. Was it a request by GM to try and help a dying line? Like I stated before, if nobody's buying the 30k G8 at under sticker, why would they think anybody would by one for 10k more? Especially after this backlash? The A-OEM direct competition will be the Saleen Challenger, Roush Mustang, and Saleen Mustang. Like the SRT8 Charger, not too many people are buying into the four door sports car thing, so I see 99% of that buying segment going with one of the other choices. I mean, you can get a 2 door coupe making ridiculous power for the same amount of money, if not less. Dave The Prick said he doesnt care about the F-Body crowd or the current/prior Firehawk owners because SLP makes most of its money on Mustang stuff now. So he just alienated the Pontiac and Firehawk people, THE SAME TWO MARKETS HE'S TRYING TO SELL THIS NEW THING TO.

PS- and I'm not saying I dont like the G8, I think its a pretty cool car in general.

[BigAls87Z28]

Actually, G8 GT's are selling at 2x the rate of the 6.

[Savage_Messiah]

Not to say they're all like this, but to the average self-important BMW/Benz owner the words Firebird and Camaro mean low-class. If you ask them we're all a bunch of rednecks. They buy BMW and Mercedes cars to make themselves feel like high class big shots, and no matter how you package it a Pontiac will never hit that market. It'll just never be "spohisticated" enough for them.



Sweet!

Myself and James (and others??) buy cars to make us feel all high-class and sophisticated, PLUS think that we're rednecks!!! We're high class rednecks!! Woohoo!!!!!

[BonzoHansen]

Actually, G8 GT's are selling at 2x the rate of the 6.

So every month they sell 2000 G8s and 1000 G6s? PMD is all but dead, and SAAB, well, pull the plug.

SEPTEMBER 9, 2008 WSJ
Unpopular Models Slow Down GM
Low-Volume Sellers Eat Ad Dollars, Take Dealer Space
By SHARON TERLEP and NEAL E. BOUDETTE

(See Corrections & Amplifications item below.)

A few months ago, General Motors Corp. flooded the prime-time airwaves with commercials introducing the G8, a big, powerful sedan that is supposed to re-energize GM's Pontiac brand.

But the ad blitz hasn't had much impact. In August, GM's 2,712 U.S. Pontiac dealers sold only 1,915 G8s -- not even one per dealer.

GM has problems on many fronts, including high gasoline prices, falling truck sales and billions in losses. The G8 illustrates one problem that's often overlooked: The auto maker's lineup contains many vehicles that deliver barely any bang for the buck.

Consider the Saab 9-5 sedan. GM promotes its Swedish brand's smaller 9-3 sedan, but the midsize 9-5 gets little exposure and as a result draws little interest from shoppers -- or even dealers. At Saab of Troy, in suburban Detroit, a few 9-5s are in stock but none are in the showroom, where customers typically spend their time browsing. In August, GM sold just 198 9-5s nationwide.

Mark LaNeve, GM's top marketing executive in North America, said the additional costs of offering slower-selling models are "really very incremental" because most share parts with higher-volume models. The G8, for instance, is a version of a car that has been a strong seller for GM's arm in Australia. Yet auto analysts say slow sellers are a bigger drag on profit that GM acknowledges.

Ron Harbour, a partner at the automotive consulting firm Oliver Wyman, said each model, even if only a variation of another vehicle, requires some engineering effort. Producing models in small numbers lowers manufacturing efficiency. Every vehicle needs its own documentation, manuals and brochures. Dealers have to be trained to service each model and have to spend money to keep them in stock. And each vehicle needs a certain amount of advertising and promotion. "For every model, you've got some investment costs, and if you don't sell enough of them, you might not be able to cover the capital costs," Mr. Harbour said.

GM recently said it hopes to cut $10 billion in costs over the next 18 months. Frederick "Fritz" Henderson, GM's president and chief operating officer, has ruled out closing or selling any of GM's eight brands besides Hummer, which GM has put up for sale. But he hasn't ruled out getting rid of some of its slow-selling models.

Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC have made simplifying their model lineups a central part of their turnaround plans. Ford has sold its Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston Martin lines. People familiar with the matter have said Ford also intends to sell its Volvo division, although the company denies Volvo is for sale. Volvo offers eight models, all slow sellers. Chrysler dropped four slow sellers last year and has said it plans to eliminate a third or more of its remaining models. Mr. Harbour noted that foreign auto makers also have a few low-volume models. In August, Honda Motor Co. sold just 2,606 Element cross-overs in the U.S., and Nissan Motor Co. sold only 2,178 Armada sport-utility vehicles.

GM has trimmed some models, too. It folded its entire Oldsmobile division several years ago. And in the last few years, it has reduced the number of nameplates offered by its Buick, Pontiac and GMC brands, which are usually housed together at dealers, to 16 from 30. Nevertheless, 20 or more of the 60 models GM offers in the U.S. often generate sales of less than 2,000 vehicles a month. Another half dozen or so fail to break the 3,000-vehicle mark in some months. Some are luxury cars, like the Cadillac STS full-size sedan, or specialty models like full-size vans, which generate profit even at low volumes. But many are mainstream cars such as the Saturn Astra hatchback and Pontiac Solstice roadster that don't command premium pricing.

GM's trouble with slow-selling models is closely related to another problem: weak brands. Pontiac, Buick, Saturn and Saab are such small players in the U.S. market that whole swaths of car shoppers don't even consider them. Each of those four brands was outsold in the U.S. market in August by Kia Motors Corp., the Korean maker that specializes in low-priced cars.

John Casesa, a veteran auto consultant and partner at Casesa Shapiro Group in New York, said GM may have trouble eliminating some of its low-volume models because some dealers carrying Saabs and Pontiacs need every model to stay in business. "Even if you have a model that's not making money [for GM], it might live on to allow showrooms to stay open," he said.

Even dealers that are in the black can struggle to move certain models. In May, Neil Norton Cadillac-Pontiac, a dealership in Joliet, Ill., ran TV ads pitching the Pontiac G5 compact, the kind of car many consumers are looking for with gas at $4 a gallon. But even with the extra advertising, he ended up selling only three, the same as the previous month. (Overall, the G5 has been a slow seller for GM.) Last month, the dealership sold about nine, better but hardly a barnburner. "It's still an important car for us," owner Larry Norton said. "We need to have a small car to offer our customers."

Corrections & Amplifications

General Motors Corp. sold 30,271 Chevy Impala cars and 55,765 Chevy Silverado trucks in August. A chart that accompanied a previous version of this Marketplace article about a GM slowdown listed the Impala as the company's top-selling car, but didn't indicate the more popular Silverado is a truck.

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/MK-AR660A_GMCAR_NS_20080908204922.gif

[NastyEllEssWon]

pontiac motors is dead. everything that pontiac makes theres already a nicer chevy version out there. bring the g8 platform in as the lumina SS, the sport ute as the El Camino. the g5 already has a moniker as the cobalt. the g6 can be rebadged as a z26 (beretta name cant be used any longer). all their larger vehicles have a buick, gmc or chevy counterpart. the solstice looks horrible compared to the sky. the only car that pontiac had worth producing was the Firebird, and thats gone.

maybe pontiac should finally bring out their much loved banshee out on the corvette platform Ala XLR.

[BigAls87Z28]

According to our sources over at GMI, 2014 is the end of Pontiac. Pontiac will get Chevy rebadges from here on out, the G8 and Solstice will ride out on thier current platforms, and then that will be the end of Pontiac.

Pontiac will most likely be replaced by Saturn at PBG dealers as Saturn wants more dealers, and GM wants less brands.

[BonzoHansen]

CART MASTER: Bring out your dead! [clang]
CUSTOMER: Here's one.
DEAD PERSON: I'm not dead!
CART MASTER: What?
CUSTOMER: Nothing. Here's your ninepence.
DEAD PERSON: I'm not dead!
CART MASTER: 'Ere. He says he's not dead!
CUSTOMER: Yes, he is.
DEAD PERSON: I'm not!
CART MASTER: He isn't?
CUSTOMER: Well, he will be soon. He's very ill.
DEAD PERSON: I'm getting better!
CUSTOMER: No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment.
CART MASTER: Oh, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
DEAD PERSON: I don't want to go on the cart!
CUSTOMER: Oh, don't be such a baby.
CART MASTER: I can't take him.
DEAD PERSON: I feel fine!
CUSTOMER: Well, do us a favour.
CART MASTER: I can't.
CUSTOMER: Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? He won't be long.
CART MASTER: No, I've got to go to the Robinsons'. They've lost nine today.
CUSTOMER: Well, when's your next round?
CART MASTER: Thursday.
DEAD PERSON: I think I'll go for a walk.
CUSTOMER: You're not fooling anyone, you know. Look. Isn't there something you can do?
DEAD PERSON: [singing] I feel happy. I feel happy.
[whop]
CUSTOMER: Ah, thanks very much.
CART MASTER: Not at all. See you on Thursday.
CUSTOMER: Right. All right.
[howl]
[clop clop clop]
Who's that, then?
CART MASTER: I dunno. Must be a king.
CUSTOMER: Why?
CART MASTER: He hasn't got **** all over him.

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/inlines/02_oldmn.jpg

[Frosty]

Good movie. :D

[SteveR]

:rofl:

[LS1Hawk]

According to our sources over at GMI, 2014 is the end of Pontiac. Pontiac will get Chevy rebadges from here on out, the G8 and Solstice will ride out on thier current platforms, and then that will be the end of Pontiac.

Pontiac will most likely be replaced by Saturn at PBG dealers as Saturn wants more dealers, and GM wants less brands.

If this is true, I am truly sadden. Pontiac USE to be such an iconic, American auto brand. It's so sad what has happened to it in recent years. I know you can't just fold up a car company over night, but if they cannot save it, I say don't let it go to 2014. End it within the next few years instead of disgracing it as a brand of re-badges.

[WildBillyT]

If this is true, I am truly sadden. Pontiac USE to be such an iconic, American auto brand. It's so sad what has happened to it in recent years. I know you can't just fold up a car company over night, but if they cannot save it, I say don't let it go to 2014. End it within the next few years instead of disgracing it as a brand of re-badges.

Well, if they axe it in 2014 that's the 50th annivarsary of the GTO.

Happy annivarsary, now don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

[NastyEllEssWon]

they should kill the brand, its better off.
No firebird, No Pontiac. thats how it should be.


and thanks for the laugh MP&THG is one of my fav movies. paid 40 bucks for the special edition dvd which now sells for 18 but this was a few years back. i cant live without a version of that movie in my collection.