Banks really suck right now.

[cdacda13]

I think I have money in there. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080926/ts_nm/us_washingtonmutual_jpmorgan_news)

Unless you have over 100,000, the government covers you, luckily.

[SteveR]

I just saw that. I saw this coming from last week when Lehman went under and WaMu stocks dropped like 75% in a hour.

[NJSPEEDER]

It won't matter to the average account holder if they go under because your money still exists and will be bought up by whoever the next bank coming along is. The way things are going either Bank of America or TD will buy out the account holdings and assume the debt since they are the only two with substantial retained earnings in the last year. I would say TD is the more likely since Bank of America has been on a spending spree in the last 6 months, gobbling up 2 or 3 more smaller regional banks and buying into some investment companies.

[SteveR]

It won't matter to the average account holder if they go under because your money still exists and will be bought up by whoever the next bank coming along is. The way things are going either Bank of America or TD will buy out the account holdings and assume the debt since they are the only two with substantial retained earnings in the last year. I would say TD is the more likely since Bank of America has been on a spending spree in the last 6 months, gobbling up 2 or 3 more smaller regional banks and buying into some investment companies.

Yea, I'm sure somebody will buy them out. TD also just bought Commerce.

[BonzoHansen]

WaMu has been on the brink for easily over a month (publicly). You'll get your $$ back, but it may take some time.

[Mike]

time to hide mine under the bed

[foff667]

wow thats nuts

[NJSPEEDER]

It was announced that they were already purchased from debt. With assets over 300 billion, yes you can infact have crazy amounts of money and be broke, the BBC reported. I caught it as I was running out the door, so I am not sure who.

I am betting WaMu will get parted out. For the amount of assets they have, their stuff is spread out all over the place. Broken into regional chunks it would be a good deal for anyone looking to take over a piece of a particular regional market.

The news said that the buy out was based on teh stock value, which is in teh ****ter, so it may have been picked up for as low as 10% of the break up value. That is insane. Someone rich is about to get way the **** richer.

-Tim

[Tsar]

Welcome to JPMorgan!

[2RARE84s]

I got this in an email, and I LIKE IT! :) I think this would actually work! and this is just talking about the 85billion dollar AIG bailout, not the 700 billion dollar bailout that is being debated.

Hi Pals,

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else


Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed
by one of our candidates for President.


If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC

And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

Kindest personal regards,

Birk

T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic

PS: Feel free to pass this along to your pals as it's either good for a laugh or a tear or a very sobering thought on how to best use $85 Billion!!

[Tsar]

I got this in an email, and I LIKE IT! :) I think this would actually work! and this is just talking about the 85billion dollar AIG bailout, not the 700 billion dollar bailout that is being debated.
1. Chain mail is for idiots.
2. You would get 425 dollars, not 425,000.
3. Learn basic math.

[2RARE84s]

Maybe I should have calculated it myself... and why the h#ll would I need to know basic math when there is a calculator on every computer?....:moon:

[SteveR]

I just read that if JP Morgan Chase didn't buy WaMu's personal banking assets, the entire FDIC Insurance Fund would have gone bankrupt, and it would have been first come first serve for trying to get your money and everyone else would have been screwed. Not to mention that if that happened, there would be no more FDIC fund and if another bank went under, everybody would lose everything.

On a side note, I'm watching Wachovia closely as they reported over 12 billion in loses last quarter alone.

[Tsar]

I just read that if JP Morgan Chase didn't buy WaMu's personal banking assets, the entire FDIC Insurance Fund would have gone bankrupt, and it would have been first come first serve for trying to get your money and everyone else would have been screwed. Not to mention that if that happened, there would be no more FDIC fund and if another bank went under, everybody would lose everything.

On a side note, I'm watching Wachovia closely as they reported over 12 billion in loses last quarter alone.
There was an article that we read in class that talked about how FDIC might be next in line to fail... Good times.

[SteveR]

There was an article that we read in class that talked about how FDIC might be next in line to fail... Good times.

WOW :shock: If that happens, we're eff'd

On a side note, another thing set in line to go under is Social Security. For a report for one of my classes last fall I had to do a study on Social Security's stability and future and the timeline for SS going under was under a decade at best, and that was before all this.

[BonzoHansen]

1. Chain mail is for idiots.

:nod::nod::nod::nod::nod::nod:


DC needs to get their act together fast.

[CHRIS67]

FDICerary. Pronounced- fa-dick-er-air-ie

*for those of you who remember sniglets and or Rich Hall.

[SteveR]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080926/ap_on_bi_ge/washington_mutual_future

It also says that since the Government had to shut WaMu down, all stockholder lost everything as the stocks were wiped out, as well as TPG Capital that invested $7 billion into WaMu just a few months ago.

[BonzoHansen]

On a side note, I'm watching Wachovia closely as they reported over 12 billion in loses last quarter alone.You are not alone in that watch...

After WaMu Seizure, Wachovia Faces Market's Fears
09/26 11:46 am (ON)
Story 0608 (WB, WM)

By Marshall Eckblad Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

NEW YORK -(Dow Jones)- The seizure of Washington Mutual Inc. (WM) is quickly becoming a problem for Wachovia Corp. (WB).

After federal regulators on Thursday night seized the West Coast thrift and its bloated book of failing home loans, investors have trained their focus on Wachovia, which itself holds piles of risky mortgages.

Wachovia shares recently traded down 23% to $10.58, while the cost of insuring Wachovia's debt against default quickly rose to distressed levels.

Wachovia looks to be in substantially better shape than Washington Mutual before WaMu failed. Wachovia has a loyal and largely affluent banking clientele, and a sizable business of offering investment services to clients through financial advisors.

But Wachovia held more than $122 billion in so-called Pick-A-Pay or Option ARM mortgages as of July 22 - an unwieldy type of loan that has fast become notorious for producing high levels of losses, as well as high levels of risk for banks who wrote them.

Pick-A-Pay loans give some borrowers the option of deferring portions of their monthly interest payments, thereby increasing the loan's balance. While Wachovia has stopped writing the loans altogether, Pick-A-Pays have proved highly problematic for both WaMu and Wachovia since home prices have fallen around the nation even as many Pick-A-Pay loan balances have risen.

Defenders of the Option ARM loans maintain that when banks underwrite these loans correctly, they are both safe and lucrative. But as the credit crisis has widened, Pick-A-Pays have produced rising delinquencies and - perhaps more importantly - unnerved investors.

Wachovia ousted its long-time CEO Ken Thompson in July and replaced him with Bob Steel, a former undersecretary at the U.S. Treasury and a veteran Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (GS) banker.

While Steel has worked quickly to reassure investors and has promised to make the Charlotte firm more transparent, Wachovia's shares have continued their wild ride as investors appear unsure what to make of Wachovia's long-term prospects. The shares dropped below $10 in July, and did so again in mid-September, but subsequently rallied both times to crest above $18.

[The Fixer]

On a side note, another thing set in line to go under is Social Security. For a report for one of my classes last fall I had to do a study on Social Security's stability and future and the timeline for SS going under was under a decade at best, and that was before all this.

Well, that would SUCK!!!!! What would they do with all of our hard-earned $$ that we've paid into that BS over the years? I'm only 34, and have been paying SS taxes for almost 20 years. If I don't get ANY of that money back, I'm gonna be friggin' pissed!!!! And I'm sure I not the only person who feels that way!

[SteveR]

Well, that would SUCK!!!!! What would they do with all of our hard-earned $$ that we've paid into that BS over the years? I'm only 34, and have been paying SS taxes for almost 20 years. If I don't get ANY of that money back, I'm gonna be friggin' pissed!!!! And I'm sure I not the only person who feels that way!

If I remember correctly, without finding the paper, it's that the increase in how long people live, coupled with the increase in percentage of American's over 65, and the lack of increase in Government pay-ins to SS will result within ten years of more people claiming SS than the SS fund can pay out.

EDIT- I remember one other point. It's that you're paying into a fund at a set rate that doesn't compensate for inflation, so the money you put in 20 years ago, isn't worth the same amount today, so you're in fact LOSING money paying into SS.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

If I remember correctly, without finding the paper, it's that the increase in how long people live, coupled with the increase in percentage of American's over 65, and the lack of increase in Government pay-ins to SS will result within ten years of more people claiming SS than the SS fund can pay out.

EDIT- I remember one other point. It's that you're paying into a fund at a set rate that doesn't compensate for inflation, so the money you put in 20 years ago, isn't worth the same amount today, so you're in fact LOSING money paying into SS.

And since more people will be retired than in the workforce. My generation can't pay for all the baby boomers, not enough of us.

[SteveR]

And since more people will be retired than in the workforce. My generation can't pay for all the baby boomers, not enough of us.

EXACTLY. It's transformed, because of the very sudden swing in workforce to retiree balance, from you paying into your own SS account for your retirement, to the SS fund so far behind that you are right now paying for the current wave of retirees, and because of the fact that the money they put in is worth less than what they are taking out, it gets further and further in debt to itself as time goes by until it won't be able to sustain itself.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

EXACTLY. It's transformed, because of the very sudden swing in workforce to retiree balance, from you paying into your own SS account for your retirement, to the SS fund so far behind that you are right now paying for the current wave of retirees, and because of the fact that the money they put in is worth less than what they are taking out, it gets further and further in debt to itself as time goes by until it won't be able to sustain itself.

Which is 2020 I think it was...or 2018? We talked about it in Poli Sci my senior year of HS

[SteveR]

Which is 2020 I think it was...or 2018? We talked about it in Poli Sci my senior year of HS

That sounds about right, I took the class last fall and they said a decade or sooner, so that would be late 2017.

[BonzoHansen]

SS is a giant mess...and medicare is too.

[SteveR]

Here's another point that just came to me. As these huge companies go under or downsize, there is a measurable percentage of the laid off workforce that is choosing a retirement package ahead of when they would have normally retired. These retirements early are going to drastically increase the depletion of the SS fund ahead of projections.

[BigAls87Z28]

This is the begining of the end.
We are talking about a total financial break down of the US.
We have gone beyond **** hitting the fan. Take whatever money you have, and turn it into Euros.

[GP99GT]

time to buy lots of booze and guns

[Jclt12003]

I don't see how bailing these banks out helps anyone? I believe it's just going to for long the financial disaster because when other banks keep failing the government is going to have no more money to loan or bail banks out with and then were really screwed, this money had to of course come from somewhere. I feel as if were in for a real rude awakening here shortly as other economies are booming and were slowly falling further and further down the list of economies. It also doesn't help that the dollars face value is falling and pretty soon the dollar is going to be worth nothing just my 02 cents

[BigAls87Z28]

We, as in people 18-30, will be paying this off for the rest of our lives, and our childrens lives.
But to put it in perspective, the 700billion is to bail out banks that have a total of over 14 TRILLION dollars in outstanding residential and commercial loans.
In the hearings, the 700 billion was more or less a big number to make your average american go "things are gunna be great cause the goverment just bought 700 billion dollars of loans!!"

[Knipps]

hmm.. this is where dual citizenship can come in very handy
need to graduate first, though

[Savage_Messiah]

EXACTLY. It's transformed, because of the very sudden swing in workforce to retiree balance, from you paying into your own SS account for your retirement, to the SS fund so far behind that you are right now paying for the current wave of retirees, and because of the fact that the money they put in is worth less than what they are taking out, it gets further and further in debt to itself as time goes by until it won't be able to sustain itself.

Depending on SS for retirement is pretty close to idiotic in any case anyway

[Jclt12003]

yea very true Savage_Messiah i have been pluckin away at my 401k now for a while although i am taking a pretty big hit on it right now i'm hoping it will come back when the market comes back i mean i think it's just a matter of time before it will

[Savage_Messiah]

401k and IRAs I have no qualms about. the market's taken bigger hits... and it always comes back. leave your money in long anough and you're fine... I gotta look it up but I believe there have been barely any 10 year periods that have been in the red, and no periods longer than that that have been red

[shane27]

if the banks were left alone in the first place we wouldnt be having these problems. Demo****s got their stupid faces in the banks business and started telling them to approve under qualified people for loans...well it backfired all right....and believe me when i tell you because ive been working at lakeland bank for about a year now.

[NJSPEEDER]

How can you blame a political party for the current banking crunch? The banks, not elected officials, are the ones who made the risky loans and got burned on it. There was no law broken, just very poor judgment during one of the biggest housing booms the nation has ever seen.
Unfortunately, now we all get to pay. It sucks, but it isn't the end of the economy.

[NJSPEEDER]

Also, saw a news report about Wachovia being in play for a by out. A mid-line mortgage company(Loans for second tier credit) they over payed for several years ago has apparently bit them in the ass. It isn't a big negative equity, but the self insured side of the company is apparently in deep doo-doo and it is straining Wachovia's available cash flow to write new, first tier credit loans, to get everything back to square.

[BonzoHansen]

He's not wrong about lenders being forced to hand out loans under the threat of discrimination charges.

[NJSPEEDER]

They all started playing with risky credit voluntarily, I don't see the equal rights based threats as inappropriate or the cause of the problem. They were also popularly supported across the aisle, just like every other measure the second someone screams discrimination. No way to blame a particular party when everyone agreed to pass the threats along.

Either way, teh risk was taken, not by teh government, but by the banks. Now they are burning for it. It's ok though, they will all fire their CEO's who will have to walk away with only 25-75 million bucks worth of severance pay. Poor guys will have to settle for the jacuzzi that only seats 10 instead of the ones tht seat 14. :roll:

[BonzoHansen]

It's part of the problem. And that is the point, it was not just lenders. It was lenders. It was borrowers. It was the repeal of all the regulations (glass-steagal). It was the regulators. It was the fed's money supply control and low rates. It was the rating agencies.

[Njgunslinger]

Well we the first to go...good Old Bear Stearns...luckily JP Morgan retained me..:)...I miss Bear Stearns...oh sorry, carry on.

[SteveR]

hot off the presses

http://finance.comcast.net/www/news.html?x=http://76.96.38.13/data/news/2008/09/29/1073123.xml

Citi will buy Wachovia's banking operations, while the rest of Wachovia's stock plummets 87% to just over $1. Looks like the rest of Wachovia is about to go under.

[BonzoHansen]

To reinforce what Shane said, I suggest you research the Community Reinvestment Act. Then research the history of Fannie & Freddie. To say the govt was not involved in the growing risk is naive.

[SteveR]

I saw this coming. With our current banking disaster, foreign companies are going to start buying up our financial infrastructure.

http://finance.comcast.net/www/news.html?x=http://76.96.38.13/data/news/2008/09/29/1073214.xml

[BonzoHansen]

It's been happening, where have you been? LOL, at least they lose on a failure.

[SteveR]

It's been happening, where have you been? LOL, at least they lose on a failure.

Yea, it's been increasing a lot lately, but with all of the banks like they are, foreign companies can now buy controlling amounts of our nations financial infrastructure. That can be disastrous. Imagine at some point in the future we have a disagreement with Japan or any other country that's buying us up? If they have a controlling stake in our economy they can raise rates, refuse loans, cancel commercial lending, etc. You can't go to war with a country that controls your economy.

[BigAls87Z28]

Actually, my father was sent an article his friend had from the NYT's dating back to 1999. The Clinton Admin wanted to loosen up some of the tolerences on Fannie/Freddie's "sub-prime" loans to lower income familes.
In the article it stats something to the effect that this is great in the current economic boom, but if it gets out of control and the country were ever to go into a large downturn, that this could prove to really hurt them and the goverment would have to bail them out like what happend with the S&L's in the 80's/90's.

[SteveR]

FBI is issuing subpoenas investigating fraud to Lehman, Freddie, Fannie, Bank of America, and AIG, among others.

http://finance.comcast.net/www/news.html?x=http://76.96.38.13/data/news/2008/09/29/1073271.xml

[BonzoHansen]

Yea, it's been increasing a lot lately, but with all of the banks like they are, foreign companies can now buy controlling amounts of our nations financial infrastructure. That can be disastrous. Imagine at some point in the future we have a disagreement with Japan or any other country that's buying us up? If they have a controlling stake in our economy they can raise rates, refuse loans, cancel commercial lending, etc. You can't go to war with a country that controls your economy.

Although if they did that they lose all their investment...so there is incentive on their side to not do that.

[SteveR]

Although if they did that they lose all their investment...so there is incentive on their side to not do that.

Not necessarily. A rival or competitor would make the investment in our economy, real estate, investments, banking, etc. to hold onto a influential portion for if the time came that a dispute arose, they could dramatically influence and damage the enemy without having to fire a shot. Results gained would be worth more than the investment lost. This is the future of wars. Why do you think we print Iraq's money in Virginia? If they ever decide to turn on us (the government we created), we can topple their economy overnight. Countries can recover from bomb blasts and craters. Not so much from a total systemic shutdown.

[SteveR]

the bail out plan was just rejected.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/news/economy/bailout/index.htm?cnn=yes

[SteveR]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/economy/main_street_impact/index.htm?postversion=2008092811

[2RARE84s]

We're all fooooked.. I'm moving to Switzerland :nod:

[Frosty]

Hold on to your butts.

[BonzoHansen]

Crap. DJIA down 600....

[Frosty]

It dropped like 400pts in a matter of 10 minutes after the House shot down the bill.

[BonzoHansen]

There is a big article on the cover of the WSJ today on how the non-bailout of Lehman caused a tremendous ripple effect that made everything worse.

I think we needed this to pass. But I think a lot of house members capitulated to the mass of complaints from voters about 'no bailout' even though the typical voter has no idea about the details involved. Most still think we gave AIG $85MM free & clear.

Ah well, we're screwed either way.

[2RARE84s]

Ah well, we're screwed either way.

Yep, except this way we are screwed a little faster...

[BonzoHansen]

The Dow industrials close down 656.70 points, or 5.9%, to 10486.43

[SteveR]

What are we down in total over the last week? Like 2000 points right?

[BonzoHansen]

Correction: The Dow industrials close down 777 points, or 6.98%

[SteveR]

Worst point drop in history.

[cdacda13]

I'm so buying stocks tomorrow.

[SteveR]

I'm so buying stocks tomorrow.

In what?

[BonzoHansen]

I think the market & the housing market have another 10-20% to drop....

[johnjzjz]

OK for those who are new at this ( and i am not being a smart ask ) oil went into the dumper meaning gas prices will drop way down - TODAY - and those in the know do not want a bail out - a loan to the crooks would be better BUT that means they would have to pay it back - the political bull on TV ( The goonie BOX ) is all bull the drop today is a scare to make all think the world is n=ending and its not - billions and billions are foreign money and the same people who BTW vote against us in the UN soooo it is really in our interest to not do this and let the cards fall - all those who have stock in the banks they work for already lost it as well as their shair holders in the failiers sooo who is it they are saving on MAINt stree themselves maybe ?????????? YEOP its already gone all of it -- it comes from a deal struck 12 years ago TO those who were awake it was to help first time home buyers +++++ remember that line +++++ well they wrote bad paper ever since < meaning loans to people who could not pay it back AND the HOOK in this is if they do pass it guys like me who have paid a morgage 28 out of the 30 years means nothing because if the deal as it is is passed all of these bad paper loans as they are called, will be on my and your tax dollars when those people dont pay them off and the goverment walks away and you and i foot the bill dont believe all you rear on the bubbie screen WE really dont want it to happen and of course its my take i am sure someone will see it different for sure -- jz

[Mark B]

Thats what government is... All of the people who dont screw up and are responsible have to pay to bail out all of the morons who screw up all the time.


Get used to it. It happens all of the time.

[cdacda13]

In what?

Still deciding. Banks look alittle risky but with a big enough pay off down the road cause they are so low and they can't suck this bad forever.
You have any ideas?

[JerzyIroc]

I'm so buying stocks tomorrow.

Heeellll ya. Me n my brother had a conversation about this today actually. You just have to find the right place to invest and forget it.

Btw, am i the only one kinda worried about GM possibly going under? Apparently they've run their credit dry. No line of credit available and their credit rating is expected to go down even more. Im no economist and i dont want to pretend to be but is there some potential danger in this for GM in the near future? Does anyone know more about this situation with GM?

[SteveR]

Still deciding. Banks look alittle risky but with a big enough pay off down the road cause they are so low and they can't suck this bad forever.
You have any ideas?

Right now is tough, and I've been thinking about it for a week now. The thing is, in past economic down turns, the sector that was performing badly was avoided and investments made in other areas, like when the tech sector went south in the late 90s, you could go over to investments and real estate. No matter what, you always had the financial infrastructure to back up other sectors. Now, it's the infrastructure itself thats failing. It's hard to say what area will be prosperous when the financial backing for everything is going under. Maybe larger military contractors like Lockheed and Northrop? It all depends what big projects are on the horizon. Oil? Depends on how many jobs are lost in this and the steep drop in demand. I'm sure a lot of people will now be going after the low risk investments like bonds and such, but too much invested in bonds will lower the yield.

The first question is how are you going to buy stocks? Do you have an investor? Do you have an account with anyone? To decide that, you need to figure out how you plan on managing your account. Are you going to buy long term investment stocks with mild risk, or buy and sell high risk stocks very quickly? You can make a killing buying and selling stocks all day if you have the means to do it. A good example is that if you had $2800 to invest in AIG the day Lehman fell, and you bought 1000 shares of AIG stocks when they bottomed out around 2.80/share, then flipped them later that day when the word was that the gov would help them, you would have made an investment of $2800, and a return of $10500. Thats an almost $8000 profit in just a few hours, and only having to either click your mouse a few times, or be on the phone with your investor for a few minutes. Not too shabby. The only thing is a lot of places require a significant initial investment on your part. When I opened my ETrade account back in like 2000, they wanted I think $10k just to open the account. There's an initial up front cost to get into trading, but if you know whats going on and have a good head for planning, you can make a killing. Dont be too optimistic though, you can also lose everything. Balancing your portfolio with various risk level investments is the best way to make money in the long term.

[johnjzjz]

what he said above is very true -- a young kid who had worked for us came into a big chunk of cash when his dad passed away and instead of leaving it alone he started DAY trading -- with in a year and a half he lost all of it and i am talking 7 figures - if you do not have real experence with making money with other peoples money dont try it -- jz

[SteveR]

You have any ideas?

here you go:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/news/economy/money_market/index.htm?postversion=2008092918

FED just announced that they'll guarantee the core value of money market accounts. They'll guarantee they wont fall bellow $1/share. If you can get in on them in bulk when they bottom out @ $1/share, the only place you can go is up.

EDIT- just read that the insurance is only covering pre-existing accounts. oops.

[SteveR]

ok, just checked the global markets. Places not to buy getaway hideout-

Belgium down 8%
Netherlands down 9%
Germany down 7%
Norway......




... the only country in the world that made money today.


Time to look into real estate in Norway. I wonder if I can get one of those fancy new Pick-A-Plan mortgage deals there :rofl:

[79CamaroDiva]

Time to look into real estate in Norway. I wonder if I can get one of those fancy new Pick-A-Plan mortgage deals there :rofl:


lets go.

[JL8Jeff]

Yup, people got greedy on all fronts and us regular people who pay their bills on time end up getting screwed. My 401K is probably down 25% for the year now, over $25K gone in less than 10 months unless some small miracle revives the market before the end of the year. :|

[Mark B]

My 401K is probably down 25% for the year now, over



I feel your pain.

[JL8Jeff]

Hey, it's not as bad as I thought! I'm only down 24.1% for the year. :-x

-

[Frosty]

Nothing like having a bill with $110 billion in earmarks...

...and John McCain...Mr Earmark vetoer(is that even a word? lol) voted yes for it. :rolleyes:

Do as I say and not as I do.

Time to write in a vote.

[BigAls87Z28]

Nothing like having a bill with $110 billion in earmarks...

...and John McCain...Mr Earmark vetoer(is that even a word? lol) voted yes for it. :rolleyes:

Do as I say and not as I do.

Time to write in a vote.


well, thank you. Its spelled Alexander Villani, thank you.

[Frosty]

Sorry, you're last name is too close to Villian, you=teh loss :D

[Savage_Messiah]

I think I'd vote for BiGals, but not BigAls.

[SteveR]

I'd vote for you, but I fear you'd cancel the Challenger.

[SteveR]

Today was not good. Market fell almost 700 points. To put all this in perspective, during the Great Depression, the market fell 24%. Over the last month, the market has fallen 31%, and since the start of the downturn 12 months ago, the market has fallen 39.4%.

In other news, GM and Ford are in HUGE trouble now. S&P put both manufacturers on "CreditWatch with a negative outlook". Which led to their credit being down graded and it will now be virtually impossible for either manufacturer to get a loan for anything. So until they can get their credit rating back up, everything they do will have to be paid for out of their pocket, and seeing that both are already in debt, that's very bad news. Following this announcement late in the day, Ford's stock plummeted 22% to close at $2.08, and GM's stock plummeted 31% to $4.76. Wall Street has officially put both companies on "Death Watch".

[chemicalstylez]

Glad i sold off everything i had 2 months ago... i would of lost big money. I pulled all my money markets too. My savings account looks banging though haha.

[2RARE84s]

Glad i sold off everything i had 2 months ago... i would of lost big money. I pulled all my money markets too. My savings account looks banging though haha.

Drinks are on you tonight! :nod:

[cdacda13]

This is really getting out of hand now.

[johnjzjz]

i bought GM at 50 at shair -- times my loss = 12 years of work and if the volt dont make it in a big way its a was a bust - in 1995 i did not for see the sub prime doing this in the end it was all a scam and a lot of people got hurt forever - jz

[Knipps]

There are 10^11 stars in the galaxy. That used to be a huge number. But it's only a hundred billion. It's less than the national deficit! We used to call them astronomical numbers. Now we should call them economical numbers.
- Richard Feynman

[SteveR]

i bought GM at 50 at shair -- times my loss = 12 years of work and if the volt dont make it in a big way its a was a bust - in 1995 i did not for see the sub prime doing this in the end it was all a scam and a lot of people got hurt forever - jz

I didn't check today, but GM stock as of closing bell yesterday was it's lowest since 1950.

[Knipps]

I didn't check today, but GM stock as of closing bell yesterday was it's lowest since 1950.

:nod: THAT is scary. especially seeing as both GM and Ford have been put on a "death watch"

[BonzoHansen]

GM closed at 4.89.

Stock price is down because no loans = no selling cars = no cash in.

[nj85z28]

all i know is i was finally forced to move my allocations today. im sick of losing thousands every month with no hope of a return in the near future. 80% back into the stable fund

[SteveR]

Unemployment figures for last week came out today. Over 573,000 jobs were lost last week alone :shock:

[2RARE84s]

Unemployment figures for last week came out today. Over 573,000 jobs were lost last week alone :shock:

:shock: Holy "F"