If anyone still doubted the Chalenger's boat status...

[Savage_Messiah]

http://www.fquick.com/images/articles/22681.jpg

From the car and driver lightning lap


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: tht thing is HUGE

[Blackbirdws6]

That's a HUGE %&^%! I see one driving on the opposite side of the road on my way home and the size def. stands out.

[deadtrend1]

ehhh .... its a little big. :)

[mc73nova]

It's on the big side.

Is there one of you who wouldn't drive it though? I applaud Mopar for building their SRT line of vehicles.

[BigAls87Z28]

It's on the big side.

Is there one of you who wouldn't drive it though? I applaud Mopar for building their SRT line of vehicles.


Dont ask silly questions.
SRT line is great...but SRT8 is 10k more and .5 slower then the Camaro SS.

[deadtrend1]

:sigh: here we go again ......... :(

[mc73nova]

The srt is a lot more than $10K more than a Camaro because there is no Camaro.

If you were in the market for a sports car that offered room for more than 2, what would you get GM doesn't offer a Camaro/Firebird type of vehicle. Yes one day there will be a Camaro/Firebird built but unless you are a diehard fan you aren't going to wait until the year 20??

[mc73nova]

:sigh: here we go again ......... :(

lol, it seems like it!

[ws6 jim]

looks like the fat cheerleader of the group you know ...the one always at the bottom of the pyramid

[qwikz28]

anyone see the results? the challenger did shockingly well even though its a "boat"

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/the_lightning_lap_2008_feature

http://www.caranddriver.com/content/download/122224/1656509/version/1/file/The+Lightning+Lap%2C+2008+Results.pdf

[Tru2Chevy]

If you were in the market for a sports car that offered room for more than 2, what would you get GM doesn't offer a Camaro/Firebird type of vehicle. Yes one day there will be a Camaro/Firebird built but unless you are a diehard fan you aren't going to wait until the year 20??

The Camaro will be on Dealer lots within 6 months as a 2010 model.

- Justin

[ar0ck]

Its funny how its almost similar in size to a CTS-V!

[Rich189]

it actually looks a little bit bulkier then the cts-v to me... im not a big fan of the challenger the front looks good the back looks alright but the sides look way to bland not to mention the size

[FBODS4EVER]

challenger 4140lbs srt8

specs:
In Detail
price $37 995
engine 90 Degree, Cast Iron, Hemi V8
position Front Longitudinal
aspiration Natural
valvetrain Pushrod OHV, 2 Vavles per Cyl
fuel feed Sequential, Multi-Port Injection
displacement 6059 cc / 369.7 cu in
bore 103 mm / 4.06 in
stroke 90.9 mm / 3.58 in
compression 10.3:1
power 316.9 kw / 425 bhp @ 6200 rpm
specific output 70.14 bhp per litre
bhp/weight 226.3 bhp per tonne
torque 569.44 nm / 420 ft lbs @ 4800 rpm
redline 6400
body / frame Unit Steel
driven wheels LX Platform RWD w/ESP
wheel type Forged Aluminum SRT
front tires P245/45 R20 Goodyear F1 Supercar
rear tires P255/45 R20 Goodyear F1 Supercar
front brakes Discs w/Brembro 4-Piston Calipers, ABS
f brake size 360 mm / 14.2 in
rear brakes Discs w/Brembro 4-Piston Calipers, ABS
r brake size 350 mm / 13.8 in
front wheels F 50.8 x 22.9 cm / 20 x 9 in
rear wheels R 50.8 x 22.9 cm / 20 x 9 in
steering Rack & Pinoin w/Hydrualic Power Assist
f suspension A-Arms w/Coil Springs over Bilstein Gas Shock Abosrbers, Stabilizer Bar
r suspension 5-Link w/Coil Springs over Bilstein Gas Shock Abosrbers, Stabilizer Bar
weight 1878 kg / 4140 lbs
wheelbase 2946 mm / 116 in
front track 1600 mm / 63 in
rear track 1603 mm / 63.1 in
length 5022 mm / 197.7 in
width 1923 mm / 75.7 in
height 1448 mm / 57 in
transmission W5A580 5-Speed Auto
gear ratios 3.58:1, 2.19:1, 1.41:1, 1.00:1, 0.83:1
final drive 3.06:1
top speed 273.53 kph / 170 mph
0 - 60 mph 4.9 seconds
0 - 1/4 mile 13.7 seconds
drag 0.353 Cd
fuel econ 16 L/100 km or 15 mpg


now im not a huge fan of the car. but it is impressive with the 0-60 and 1/4 times with over 4100lbs.:shock:

[Knipps]

the pic just makes it seem bloated IMO

[12secondv6]

Sexy as hell though.

[NJSPEEDER]

The Challengers big problem

front tires P245/45 R20 Goodyear F1 Supercar
rear tires P255/45 R20 Goodyear F1 Supercar

It doesn't matter if it was the 500 or so lbs lighter that the Camaro is supposed to be or not with them donuts. Someone should send Ford and Chrysler a letter and let them know that rim can be made more than 8inches wide.

[BigAls87Z28]

The srt is a lot more than $10K more than a Camaro because there is no Camaro.

If you were in the market for a sports car that offered room for more than 2, what would you get GM doesn't offer a Camaro/Firebird type of vehicle. Yes one day there will be a Camaro/Firebird built but unless you are a diehard fan you aren't going to wait until the year 20??

15 weeks till production
On sale in a few months.

I dont know why people keep talking down the Camaro like its still a concept.

[BigAls87Z28]

challenger 4140lbs srt8

specs:
In Detail
weight 1878 kg / 4140 lbs
wheelbase 2946 mm / 116 in
front track 1600 mm / 63 in
rear track 1603 mm / 63.1 in
length 5022 mm / 197.7 in
width 1923 mm / 75.7 in
height 1448 mm / 57 in

now im not a huge fan of the car. but it is impressive with the 0-60 and 1/4 times with over 4100lbs.:shock:

CTS-V

Weight 4200-4300lbs
Length 191.6
Width: 72.5
Hight: 58

CTS-V IS smaller then the Challenger. Camaro is 2 inches shorter and 4-5 inches lower then the CTS-V, but about the same width as the Challenger. So looking at the CTS-V next to the Challenger can give you a good idea of what it will look like when Camaro and Challenger face off.

[GP99GT]

who seriously gives a flying **** what each car is? holy ****. just buy the god damn car you want and shut the **** up. get off GMs nuts, its all about preference, as it always has been.

[qwikz28]

no one has any comment on the cobalt SS? whats wrong with you guys?

[maroman88]

no one has any comment on the cobalt SS? whats wrong with you guys?

ummm id love to have one!

[Savage_Messiah]

no one has any comment on the cobalt SS? whats wrong with you guys?


About how it tore the **** out of the competition? Pretty sweet.

[rscamaro73]

If you were in the market for a sports car that offered room for more than 2, what would you get ??


GTO ??

G-8 ??

Still GM :mrgreen:

[BigAls87Z28]

who seriously gives a flying **** what each car is? holy ****. just buy the god damn car you want and shut the **** up. get off GMs nuts, its all about preference, as it always has been.

So people can swing off the Challenger's nuts, and no problem, but when I bring in the Camaro, Im the nut swinger...right.

My perference is Camaro. And I talk about it, just like when people defend thier own car. So what makes me different? Cause im more vocal about it?
Dont like the talk, stay teh **** out of the thread.

[mc73nova]

GTO ??

G-8 ??

Still GM :mrgreen:

GTO=used

G-8=sedan

...but I'm not saying I wouldn't take either one if I had the chance

[BigAls87Z28]

GTO=used

G-8=sedan

...but I'm not saying I wouldn't take either one if I had the chance

G8 is just as much if not more a sports car then Challenger is.

[mc73nova]

G8 is just as much if not more a sports car then Challenger is.

Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it but I think its more of the fact that you cant get outside of that GM box you are stuck in. I like both vehicles but the fact is given the choice, I would take the challenger hands down. Not to mention the characteristics it shares with the 1970 version. The new Camaro a beautiful design, but does not come close to resembling a '69.

[bubba428]

Its funny how its almost similar in size to a CTS-V!

its a cadi...its suposed to be huge

[bubba428]

dude al, we get it.........enough already. 90% of us WON'T be buying either in the near future....how about we wait till we actually own the car to talk ****...

[qwikz28]

dude al, we get it.........enough already. 90% of us WON'T be buying either in the near future....how about we wait till we actually own the car to talk ****...

or, since this is a discussion forum, we can discuss our views on either car :)

[GP99GT]

you talk about it, but when someone else voices their PREFERENCE, you tell them how wrong they are, blah blah. it ends up in every thread that has to do with either the camaro or challenger or whatever else there might be regarding a rival car to the camaro. kinda hard to "stay teh **** out of the thread" when its in a whole bunch of them

[SupermanX24]

I don't think it's THAT big. Then again I didn't think my first girlfriend was that big and now that I look back on it...

[bubba428]

I don't think it's THAT big. Then again I didn't think my first girlfriend was that big and now that I look back on it...

o **** dude....when you went to the beach did all the boats stay to one side of her?

[Mike]

every thread regarding either of these cars is turning as predictable as political threads. the challenger is only 3-4 hundred pounds heavier than my 4th gen was new, and it has... nicer seats, nicer interior, more stereo, more sound deadening and probably a lot more creature comforts adding weight, swap all those parts into my bird and it will probably weigh 43-4400 pounds.

[SupermanX24]

o **** dude....when you went to the beach did all the boats stay to one side of her?

she wasn't THAT big, that i'll admit. lol

[sweetbmxrider]

its funny like the challenger is a tank and all, but tanks can survive accidents much better than golf carts. all the performance in the world won't save you from a bad situation. sure they crash test them and all but i think there is more room to spare in a challenger than a camaro. imagine getting into an accident in a 3rd or 4th gen with people in the back seats. :shock:

[V]

ithink there is more room to spare in a challenger than a camaro. imagine getting into an accident in a 3rd or 4th gen with people in the back seats. :shock:



go look at a challenger, i checked out a srt8 a few weeks back, the back leg room was almost non existant with the SRT8 seats that look like huge cardboard boxes

[GP99GT]

wellll...a friend of mine has experience with a 4th gen wreck. thankfully he was in the car by himself, but heres the wreckage...

before:

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee127/strngedaysNdeed/Untitled-4copy.jpg

after:

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee127/strngedaysNdeed/sisswreck.jpg

walked away sore and some scratches...wasnt even wearing his seatbelt

heres some more

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee127/strngedaysNdeed/dsc00971.jpg

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee127/strngedaysNdeed/dsc00975.jpg

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee127/strngedaysNdeed/dsc00988.jpg

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee127/strngedaysNdeed/dsc00994.jpg

[mc73nova]

I cringe when I see $#!* like that, thank god he's alright.

wow those pics you just put up made me sick. my friend hit a telephone pole and flipped his 300zx on hamburg turnpike about 8 years ago, its hard to believe it when someone escapes something like that alive. My friend wasn't so fortunate he lost half of one leg and all his toes on the other. His friend was in the passenger seat and got out without a scratch.

[SteveR]

wow Matt, thats nuts :shock:

[sweetbmxrider]

go look at a challenger, i checked out a srt8 a few weeks back, the back leg room was almost non existant with the SRT8 seats that look like huge cardboard boxes

oh, well i take that back. haven't felt the need to look at one up close yet. maybe i will....


i thought that was some gore on the road there, guess its just tranny fluid or reflections or something. still a crazy accident. very fortunate to be alive.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee127/strngedaysNdeed/dsc00975.jpg

[BigAls87Z28]

Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it but I think its more of the fact that you cant get outside of that GM box you are stuck in. I like both vehicles but the fact is given the choice, I would take the challenger hands down. Not to mention the characteristics it shares with the 1970 version. The new Camaro a beautiful design, but does not come close to resembling a '69.

GM has nothing to do with this, they just happen to make a better car.
I like what the Challenger represents, a return to American muscle, but I cant stand the praise it gets, and the bashing the Camaro gets on a FBODY site!
Why would you take the Challenger hands down? Its design only. Who cares if it handles like a half ton pick up truck?
Its not that the Challenger is a bad car, its just that people just dont care as long as it looks the part.
Too me, the Camaro looks like a modern 69 Camaro and has the potential to be one of the best sports coupes on the market. Its the work and effort that the Camaro team put into the car. Maybe I care because I have been around it for such a long time, I have writen letters, I have driven thousands of miles to see it. Who knows, but I have an attachment to the car that is more then just the design, its the whole car.

you talk about it, but when someone else voices their PREFERENCE, you tell them how wrong they are, blah blah. it ends up in every thread that has to do with either the camaro or challenger or whatever else there might be regarding a rival car to the camaro. kinda hard to "stay teh **** out of the thread" when its in a whole bunch of them

I have never told anyone that they were wrong, I just ask why. Show me where I tell people they are wrong to like the Challenger.
I tell people that they are wrong on facts, but nothing on thier preference. If you really like the car, then so be it. My opinion, which means nothing, is that its really just a pretty 2dr wrapper on a big 4 door chassis. Not a fan at all. And to see it getting praise because "IT LOOKS LIKE THE OLD ONE!!!1111ONE!!11" is starting to get old.

[BigAls87Z28]

And to "get out of teh GM box" Id take the newly upcoming 2010 Mustang over the Challenger any day of teh week becaues like GM, Ford put a lot of hard work into making a TRUE pony car, not just put 1970's sheet metal over a old MB chassis.

[mc73nova]

I would rather have a Camaro than any other of these but to rip on other vehicles that are being produced while killing time (7 Years) waiting for a new one to be made is pathetic. I'm not bashing the Camaro on this site just pointing out the facts. How many times have they pushed back the date of this vehicle, It's been years of wondering and waiting. Now after all of the waiting I still won't buy one when they come out because I will not be involved in this price inflation of new vehicles. I will have to wait another year on top of this just for it to be fesable. These people that are paying $71k for a $41k Challenger and $100k for $75k GT-R are insane.

[NJSPEEDER]

Camaro = the economical true sports car, built with power and handling and a typical GM plasticy interior, albeit a much more stylish than usual one

Mustang = the generic pony car, not cheap or expensive, not great or terrible looking, not great handling or horrible, not the fastest or the slowest of the segment

Challenger = the luxury angle. It rides a ton better than the mustang and I am sure it will be smoother riding than the Camaro(it's a dodge thing), it is by far the most expensive, and being a chrysler product, it will get the worst mileage by a lot but look fabulous doing it.

Just like back in the golden age of the muscle car, there is no apples to apples comparison. Ford will continue to get by on advertising and special editions, GM will still make the fast one that everyone can afford, and Chrysler will win the "look at me" fat wallet muscle crowd.

-Tim

[mc73nova]

GM will still make the fast one that everyone can afford

-Tim

In all honesty, do you think there won't be any of these inflations on the new Camaro? the SS to be exact.

[BigAls87Z28]

I would rather have a Camaro than any other of these but to rip on other vehicles that are being produced while killing time (7 Years) waiting for a new one to be made is pathetic. I'm not bashing the Camaro on this site just pointing out the facts. How many times have they pushed back the date of this vehicle, It's been years of wondering and waiting. Now after all of the waiting I still won't buy one when they come out because I will not be involved in this price inflation of new vehicles. I will have to wait another year on top of this just for it to be fesable. These people that are paying $71k for a $41k Challenger and $100k for $75k GT-R are insane.

Ugh...rumors put it all over the place.
Camaro was never officially announced for production till summer of 2006, and at that point they said that it would be first quarter of 09.
That has ALWAYS been the date. Never has it been pushed back. Ever.

[NJSPEEDER]

In all honesty, do you think there won't be any of these inflations on the new Camaro? the SS to be exact.

The Camaro market won't support a bunch of price point game playing IMO. With two established marques already occupying the market, the Camaro is coming in to mix things up. Performance alone will not sway the number of buyers needed for the project to pay for itself, much less turn the expected huge profits.

I am sure there will be stealerships doing the whole "market price adjustment" BS, but for the most part the combination of performance AND value has to be maintained for it to be successful.

-Tim

[mc73nova]

I hope you are right, I can't see spending $30 over invoice and losing that value as soon as I drive off the lot.

[Knipps]

So don't buy one the first year and let everyone else pay it..

[BigAls87Z28]

There were only 5000 first year units, and they were all top end SRT8 models.

[sweetbmxrider]

buying one car for the price of two is just ridiculous. not my money though so whatever.

[Tru2Chevy]

There are several dealerships that have already said they will sell the new Camaro at MSRP, no market price adjustment at all whatsoever.

- Justin

[sweetbmxrider]

did you get that in writing? :lol: seriously though, they must be real good people or else i don't see that happening.

[12secondv6]

And to "get out of teh GM box" Id take the newly upcoming 2010 Mustang over the Challenger any day of teh week becaues like GM, Ford put a lot of hard work into making a TRUE pony car, not just put 1970's sheet metal over a old MB chassis.


:rofl:
So, challenger has many safety components off a Mercedes-Benz.....then it TRUELY surpasses the camaro and mustang ;)

And yes, I knew MB was involved ;)

[BigAls87Z28]

Camaro is also built very strong. They are aiming for 5 stars in every crash test.
The only thing Challenger surpasses Camaro on is weight, size, and price.

[Knipps]

Camaro is also built very strong. They are aiming for 5 stars in every crash test.
The only thing Challenger surpasses Camaro on is weight, size, and price.

really? I'd never heard that before

[BigAls87Z28]

really? I'd never heard that before

Glad you are paying attention.

[SStealth2k]

A guy down my street just bought one, i went and looked at it today. Yeah they are huge cars but they look sweet as hell

[12secondv6]

Camaro is also built very strong. They are aiming for 5 stars in every crash test.
The only thing Challenger surpasses Camaro on is weight, size, and price.

:rofl:

You forgot:
To the market first and established itself in the market
Lifetime warranty

[BigAls87Z28]

:rofl:

You forgot:
To the market first and established itself in the market
Lifetime warranty

Aztek was the first to market to, and estabilished itself....doesnt mean ****.
Lifetime warranty? Cant fix fat and overpriced.

[Knipps]

:horse:

[DevilDougWS6]

lol, we shall see how this plays out once the camaro hits the streets. it is slowly growing on me...maybe if it comes in other colors besides silver, black should look nice. and i still hate those three gills behind the doors on the body.

but I have seen this really nice red challenger at a local dodge stealership...the markup was rediculous..almost cost 100k for the whole damn car! and yeah they are HUGE...next to the caravan it looked VERY big. but a very nicely molded car.....

i think i read somewhere that the interior is VERY small as well...its like they made it beefy inside and out. too much padding between the interior and exterior if you can picture that.

[NJSPEEDER]

Here ya go Al. Don't let the fact that the Challenger is a good car get in your way. Stay refreshed and energized with
http://www.chaoticconcepts.com/haterade2.gif

[BigAls87Z28]

Already have plenty.
Im sure the Challenger is a great car. My problem isnt that its a crappy car (interior is pretty ****ting IMO), its that its not as good as the Camaro will be.

[mc73nova]

BIGAL do you work for GM or are those pics from some sort of promotion for new GM vehicles?

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

BIGAL do you work for GM or are those pics from some sort of promotion for new GM vehicles?

He works for Sears auto...but I think those pics are from Indy.

[sweetbmxrider]

Already have plenty.
Im sure the Challenger is a great car. My problem isnt that its a crappy car (interior is pretty ****ting IMO), its that its not as good as the Camaro will be.

:rofl: a camaro with a decent interior!!!! thats great!

[BigAls87Z28]

BIGAL do you work for GM or are those pics from some sort of promotion for new GM vehicles?


I went out to Indybash/fest or whatever the name was 18th-21st. There that was the first official showing to the public for people to see the production cars.

[mc73nova]

lucky man, did they let you hear it run?

[BigAls87Z28]

They did start it, but I missed it...

[NJSPEEDER]

Im sure the Challenger is a great car. My problem isnt that its a crappy car

This is exactly the kind of statement that weakens your position.

A LOT of people like the more roomy feel of the Challenger interior. Is it MOPAR parts bin? Yes. But at least it doesn't have round gauges in square holes and a center stack that would look more at home in a space ship than a production car. Thank God the Camaro came along to deliver those interior gems to us :roll:

I wouldn't turn down either car. I am by no means a "MOPAR Guy", but the Challenger is a damn nice car and I am sure it would be a pleasure to drive one every day.

-Tim

[bad64chevelle]

These ****ing threads hurt my brain. Lets just stop here, we get it big al....we ****ing get it. You are entitled to your opinion, no one else is allowed to have theirs, because we are ALL wrong.

[BigAls87Z28]

I never said anyone was wrong for liking the Challenger. Its that its just not that great of a car. You can like it, thats not my problem, but I just dont like the car.
I like that its a muscle car, that is Chrysler's attempt at remaking a pony car/muscle car/whatever the hell youw ant to call it, but when people fap over this and then dis on Camaro bothers me.

Great, circle guages in square holes is a retro touch
http://www.autocult.com.au/img/gallery/full/CARmageddon2162.jpg

Id rather have the space age interior and my circle in a square guages then the same interior I can find in such outstanding cars like the Dodge Caliber, Avenger, and the Town and Country.

[GP99GT]

you say that like camaro's never had a parts bin interior :lol:

personally i love the cavalier automatic shifter

[BigAls87Z28]

you say that like camaro's never had a parts bin interior :lol:

personally i love the cavalier automatic shifter

It has in the past, no doubt. But with this new one, it doesnt. Even the "revised" Mustang will have the parts bin green Ford radio and hvac units.