Who thinks im getting a good deal?

[usp55]

I am a craigslist whore and have always had some very good luck either buying or selling through the site. I just happened to be searching fbody related stuff and came across a 71 Firebird for sale - $1500! Id be surprised if no one from our little club called or emailed them about it because the owners tell me they have gotten inundated with tons of inquiries about the car. I'm happy to say that i will be going up tomorrow to Bloomsbury NJ to get a look at the car and almost without a doubt put a deposit down on the car as they have told others they are fairly certain they have found their buyer, ME.
I'll take some pics tomorrow while im there and posted below are the additional pics that the owners sent to me from today. Its posted as a 455 but the owner was very upfront with me in a later convo that it is probably more likely that it is the 400. Either way she is going to email me all the numbers that have on the car including the ones they pulled of the engine block.
The car runs, has a 3 speed, and supposedly has 63k on the clock, but is not street worthy as it needs a steering column, rear bumper, windshield and a few other odds and ends obviously.

I wanted to ask u guys if u know of anyone or if u yourself have access to a trailer and would be willing to help me move the car back down to south jersey. I pretty sure some of you actually trailer your cars to and from the track. just let me know how much u want. Or do u know a decent place i can contact and get a decent rate. I don't have AAA.

I recently started a new job selling for GSK and if all goes well in this next week of training ill have the funds to make some nice progress on the car in the upcoming year. This should bring a smile to the JSperformance crew as im probably gona be throwing some coin their way to get this project underway. Actually even the 6banger need some work done too now that i think about it.

Its hard to say from the picks just how bad the rust is but ill be able get a better look tomorrow. They have garaged it for some time though so im optimistic, but expecting the worst. I was starting to save for an LS1 but i don't think im gona be able to pass this up.

Let me know what u think



http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/driversrear.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/engine.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/engine2.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/rearseats.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/trunk.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/under.jpg

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/wheel.jpg

[sweetbmxrider]

looks decent for the coin. definitely a project. who knows, maybe once you clean it, it will be a diamond!

[V]

the only word that i saw was "whore"... do it

[chrisfrom nj]

its a nice project car if you need a tow truck to picke it up let me know my cousin owns a towing business

[69BirdX]

doesnt look to bad. better then my 69 when i bought it. same price

[BonzoHansen]

could be a nice score. Look at the frame rails, upper corners of the dash by the windshield and the quarters. Also, that will be a lot of $$ to fix up, so if you get it you'll probably be done tinkering with the DD. 2 projects usually means none done.

why no pics of the car itself??

the tire mark on teh back seat is awesome, lol.

[baddest434]

the tire mark on teh back seat is awesome, lol.

almost as funny as the carb cover:rofl:

anyway looks like a nice score. as long as you have the time money and patience it takes when taking on these types of projects. good luck

[usp55]

its a nice project car if you need a tow truck to picke it up let me know my cousin owns a towing business

If u can ask him for a quote thatd be great its located in bloomsbury nj 08804 and needs to get to sewell NJ, 08080. its about an 1h45min drive.

could be a nice score. Look at the frame rails, upper corners of the dash by the windshield and the quarters. Also, that will be a lot of $$ to fix up, so if you get it you'll probably be done tinkering with the DD. 2 projects usually means none done.

why no pics of the car itself??

the tire mark on teh back seat is awesome, lol.

thanks for the tips. The DD has been done for a while, just regular matinence and possibly rebuild the tranny but its running very strong. I do need to replace the front shocks, and im getting alittle vibration from the drivetrain (well more than usual and in a mthodical rthym at times) - out of balance DS?, pinion angle?, not sure if it has anything to do with the small pinion seal leak. Im not too worried as she's been runnning great even when i was putting 100 miles a day on her this past 2 weeks.



anyway looks like a nice score. as long as you have the time money and patience it takes when taking on these types of projects. good luck

time i got and the money is coming. just have to start tracking down some parts, rear bumper, steering column, etc. I think its something i cant pass up. My neighbors are going to love the open headers when i fire it up in the driveway hahah, and they thought the cutout on he 3.4 was loud at 6am when i go to work....:evil:

[BonzoHansen]

that car might have a lot of potential, but be prepared for a sizable project.

[sweetbmxrider]

yeah looking at it harder, there is surface rust all over. its not something you would just slap some parts on and drive. i would only turn the motor over by hand too. who knows what the internals look like and how the oil is and how old it is. best of luck

between the two engine shots, someone has been working on it. its leaking gas on the d/s of the carb.

look at how gross the fuel filter got :shock:

and i think its obvious, the car was a puke green and the exterior is primered black.

nice covers on the hoses though :lol: bring your fine tooth comb

[BonzoHansen]

ah forget the engine, assume it needs rebuilding anyway. engines are cheap & easy - sheet metal is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4

[sweetbmxrider]

haha very true. you would know better than me that is for sure. i have seen worse though

[usp55]

yeah looking at it harder, there is surface rust all over. its not something you would just slap some parts on and drive. i would only turn the motor over by hand too. who knows what the internals look like and how the oil is and how old it is. best of luck

between the two engine shots, someone has been working on it. its leaking gas on the d/s of the carb.

look at how gross the fuel filter got :shock:

and i think its obvious, the car was a puke green and the exterior is primered black.

nice covers on the hoses though :lol: bring your fine tooth comb

ha, yea the braided line will be removed. and your absolutly correct about the color
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/pukegreen.jpg

just a new pic
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/fender.jpg

ah forget the engine, assume it needs rebuilding anyway. engines are cheap & easy - sheet metal is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4

yea im assuming engin tranny work to be done and the metal is all im worried about. This is the first "older" car ive been looking at, but im ready to start a long project. just gona take my time, try to get the best information i can and do it right over the years.

[NJSPEEDER]

Get it, 1500 is a steal for a solid 2nd gen. If you don't like the white seats, don't take them apart. The interior pictured is a white deluxe, very uncommon and never in good shape. Someone restoring a cr will pay a mint for them.

Just promise you will get that Chevy motor out of there and put a proper poncho power plant in it. It belongs there, even if it is just a cruiser motor, it deserves a poncho motor. :)

[usp55]

just got back from looking at the car and from what i can tell it needs some work. The guy tom was very upfront about everything he know and i spent about and hour and a half talking to him.

the bad:
-winshield cracked
-no rear bumper
-missing pass side mirror
-key broke off in steering column
-2x3" soft spot in the floor board just under the pedels.
-quarter size whole in trunk, lots of rust in their
-he said it would prob need a new radiator
-throttle cable cut and clamped together (minor problem)
-linkage to the tranny is not perfect, needs to be looked at
-needs exhaust from headers back
-carb does indeed have a leak, he says it just needs a gasket...

the really bad:
rear frame rails are rusted pretty good
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+4294848947+115+4294925080
200 for the set but prob a pretty penny to cut out the old and weld in the new.

the good:
-she started right up even in the 30degree weather- **** my maro doesn't even do that
-he has had the upper engine apart and says it looked fairly new. Valve train was in good shape but in need of a proper tune, replaced all the gaskets
-cab was rebuilt within the last year
-he has 95% if not more of the bells and whistles for the outside, all the lights, weatherstripping, 3 peice spoiler, etc.
-all the other windows are in nice shape
-full set of seats and door panels

i took a bunch of pics and when i went home i couldnt find them on the amera, not sure what happened. I got a small vid of the startup and one pic of the front. If i find the rest ill post them.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/front.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/blocknumber.jpg




Vid of startup
http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z267/usp55/?action=view&current=DSCN3639.flv

[usp55]

Get it, 1500 is a steal for a solid 2nd gen. If you don't like the white seats, don't take them apart. The interior pictured is a white deluxe, very uncommon and never in good shape. Someone restoring a cr will pay a mint for them.

Just promise you will get that Chevy motor out of there and put a proper poncho power plant in it. It belongs there, even if it is just a cruiser motor, it deserves a poncho motor. :)

Well it looks as though it is a poncho motor. From what I was able to find the X4 code means two things: Pontiac used those 2 letter codes over different years and i need more information from the block to determine what year its from. If its from a 73 the the x4 code denotes a 185hp 400, but if from a 79 then is the 150hp 301. If someone could double check that for me thad be great. I could be completely wrong here but ill do some more searching
Id love to drop the 455 in there (about 5g's online rebuilt) but this will do just fine for the next few years as i take care of the rest of the car.

It is official though as I put a down payment on the car and have already located a new windshield and newly re-chromed rear bumper. Plan to buy the full floorboard 1peice replacement, full trunk liner, frame rails and sub frame connectors from summit to start. I should have that all by the end of jan per my budgeting and well go from there. I have alot to read up on and have to clean out the garage now.

[BonzoHansen]

Cool. Hope you know how to weld. Maybe we'll take a road trip down to see it when you get it home.

[WildBillyT]

YOU CANNOT USE THOSE REAR FRAME RAILS (FROM SUMMIT).

They will require you to move the springs inboard and are for back-halving the car. Been there, tried to do that. You will have to get rear frame rails from a donor car.

The other thing you need to do is get a magnet and run it along every panel to look for body filler. Just because it looks like it's straight and in primer doesn't mean it is- a lot of people put body filler and/or fiberglass over a hole and then spray over it.

[JL8Jeff]

I think there are 2 different sets of codes on the Pontiac motors, but I'm not 100% sure. I would say check for a casting date on the motor. The biggest issue with the 2nd gen cars is the rear frame rails and around the windshield and rear window corners. I could see an easy $10-20K being put into that car so think about it. It's nice to do a project but in the end it usually cost twice what a completed car would cost. The cost of that car at $1500 is a moot point since that's probably the lowest cost point of the project. Like Tim said, you might be able sell off the white seats and recoup a good chunk right there.

[sweetbmxrider]

that magnet move is a great tip

[1QWIKBIRD]

Get it, 1500 is a steal for a solid 2nd gen. If you don't like the white seats, don't take them apart. The interior pictured is a white deluxe, very uncommon and never in good shape. Someone restoring a cr will pay a mint for them.

Just promise you will get that Chevy motor out of there and put a proper poncho power plant in it. It belongs there, even if it is just a cruiser motor, it deserves a poncho motor. :)

That is a poncho motor.......look at the intake, valley pan, water pump.

[usp55]

YOU CANNOT USE THOSE REAR FRAME RAILS (FROM SUMMIT).

They will require you to move the springs inboard and are for back-halving the car. Been there, tried to do that. You will have to get rear frame rails from a donor car.

The other thing you need to do is get a magnet and run it along every panel to look for body filler. Just because it looks like it's straight and in primer doesn't mean it is- a lot of people put body filler and/or fiberglass over a hole and then spray over it.

wow, hey no yelling its early...but i appreciate the info. I don't think this car will ever be a full resto, so maybe i should look into chopping it up and getting it back halved, something to consider. Only because finding a donor car with decent original material is gona be quite a find. Are there any other car beside obviously the same year camaros that would have had the same frame rails? Novas? And if found they would be a direct replacement and take car of my rear frame rail problem?? certainly be easier than back having the car i would think.

Its funny you mention that as before i went i was searching for tips on how to evaluate an older car and i did in fact bring a magnet. When started going over it the owner was very upfront and pointed out the two spots that had some type of fuller material. and i think i found another on the one pass side door.

I was expecting that because of the price tag and that's a minor problem in my mind compared to the frame rails in the rear

[usp55]

I think there are 2 different sets of codes on the Pontiac motors, but I'm not 100% sure. I would say check for a casting date on the motor. The biggest issue with the 2nd gen cars is the rear frame rails and around the windshield and rear window corners. I could see an easy $10-20K being put into that car so think about it. It's nice to do a project but in the end it usually cost twice what a completed car would cost. The cost of that car at $1500 is a moot point since that's probably the lowest cost point of the project. Like Tim said, you might be able sell off the white seats and recoup a good chunk right there.


absolutely correct, I need the other codes for correctly identify the x4 code, but these are the possibilities that were given that code.

X4 A-body 73 400 185 Turbo 400 L-65
X4 A-body 76 400 170 Turbo 350 L-65
X4 A-body 79 301 150 Turbo 350 L-37
X4 B-body 73 400 185 Turbo 400 L-65
X4 B-body 76 400 170 Turbo 350 L-65
X4 B-body 76 400 170 Turbo 350 L-65
X4 B-body 79 301 150 Turbo 350 L-37
X4 B-body 79 301 150 Turbo 350 L-37
X4 F-body 73 400 185 Turbo 400 L-65
X4 F-body 79 301 150 Turbo 350 L-37

rear frame needs work, the just under the windshield looked solid and i could find any soft spots, i did not look at the rear window as closely as the front but the moldings were off and if did look decent but again it was primed so there could be some problems there.

whats nice about my new job is every quarter i have the ability to get a nice commission check if the team meets their goal (they always have). That will be a nice 4-6k check after taxes to throw into this project. But even so my take home before bonuses doubles my previous job so im expecting some more cash flow. So this project fits nicely.

and if i go the route of the strip car than ill sell the seats and hopefully you guys are right, But if i don't need the cash i thin ill hang on to them.

[sweetbmxrider]

you should go to that junkyard in rhode island.

[WildBillyT]

wow, hey no yelling its early...but i appreciate the info. I don't think this car will ever be a full resto, so maybe i should look into chopping it up and getting it back halved, something to consider. Only because finding a donor car with decent original material is gona be quite a find. Are there any other car beside obviously the same year camaros that would have had the same frame rails? Novas? And if found they would be a direct replacement and take car of my rear frame rail problem?? certainly be easier than back having the car i would think.

Its funny you mention that as before i went i was searching for tips on how to evaluate an older car and i did in fact bring a magnet. When started going over it the owner was very upfront and pointed out the two spots that had some type of fuller material. and i think i found another on the one pass side door.

I was expecting that because of the price tag and that's a minor problem in my mind compared to the frame rails in the rear

Lol... I'm yelling because the comp engineering rails come up a lot for use in 2nd gens and I always end up posting the same things. Moving the springs inboard (which is required) is in the fine print for that product.

70-81 F-bodies should all have the same rear frame sections. If the entire rails aren't rusty you can just replace a section. Replacing entire rails are a big deal.

[rscamaro73]

For the price, get it.

Worst case - you can flips it for a few bucks more since it 'runs'...

Parts won't be cheap, but they're out there, and I know people that will have parts for 'birds.

Those are NICE cars when done. It won't be overnight, nor cheap, so be expecting that.

Other than that - you leave the deposit ?? :mrgreen:

[usp55]

Exactly where my head is at. Based on the amount of calls they received about the car i think i could turn around and flip it really easily for a little profit, at least that's the speal in throwing my parents way so i can take control of the garage. But i think i really want to get involved in a fairly substantial and lengthy project requiring a good amount of money.

oh and yea the deposit is in their hainds and now have to get it down here, got two quotes for around $289 to move it

I think a suitable replacement for the rear frame rails has been located:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-1971-1972-1973-70-71-72-Camaro-Full-Frame-Rail-RH_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q 7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a 1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem2 60291289114QQitemZ260291289114QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5f TruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
seams like an ideal place to start

[jims69camaro]

nice project. check into the local Vo-Tech to see if they might have a class so you can learn welding, or even auto body so you not only learn to weld but learn how to shape metal. you will save lots of cash this way (only spend $350 and got more than the 12 weeks worth of education). night school FTW.

[usp55]

if its night school Im all over it, great idea! thanks

[JL8Jeff]

So what are your initial thoughts on the car? Do a comfortable pro-touring type car, a street/strip car, stock type resto, all out strip car? If you need to do rear framerail work, that might be a good time to plan out a setup for wide tires if going pro-touring. If you can get your dad interested in helping with it as a project that will help if you're still living at home.

[usp55]

I dont want to go the route of pro-touring so no need to tube out the back the car for large tires. Prob not a stock resto as its prob not the correct engine/tranny and to be honest im not all that cray about every little detail being perfect and show quality. So i guess im leaning toward a street/strip car. Something i can get on at the track, but still has the ability to cruise around town and be somewhat street-able and somewhat reliable on a week end drive. So the interior is not too important. So i guess partial resto/street/strip car.

I am curious about the hood it has as it doesn't clear the ****y air cleaner he has on there and its not hood with the 2 scoops towards the front.

My father is fairly knowledgeable about these older cars and will be a great asset to me. Im going to have to pick his brain. My mother used to own a blue 73 mustang (much like that green one in the long island junk yard, pic near the bottom) that my father wrenched on that and he used to have an old vette. but that was before my time. He was also used to detail and paint cars back in the day When he and his brothers owned a gas station down in AC.

Oh and he offered the garage to me today, well sorta.
ha, he asked how much it was going to cost for me to store the car. I shot back with the pices i had pulled of the net and he later in the talk somewhat opened the door to me using the garage.

[BonzoHansen]

You can get 315s in the back of that car w/o tubbing it if everything goes your way (offsets, how straight the car is, etc). 285s no problem.

IMO sit down make a plan. You'll be miles ahead. If you are going to the December meet we can talk about it.


Do a lot of homework before you start buying parts. You don't want to spend too much or buy parts that fit poorly.

Here are some Pontiac sites that are good
http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/index.php
http://transamcountry.com/community/
This is a 2nd gen Camaro site but it may also be helpful
http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/index.php

[usp55]

Thanks for the sites

Im not sure if im going to be able to make it, I always think i can and they something comes up. If i can make it it wont be long as im have so much going on between my grandmother passing away/Intense job training/ and trying to setup a transport for the car possibly on sat 12/13. Im am close though to the meet and really want to come.

ill see what i can do

[maroman88]

sweeet deal man! i left a deposit on a car today as well :)