Opti vs. Aftermarket Opti vs. Dynaspark Opti w Coils

[Fire_Chicken92]

This is info on Dynaspark:

http://www.dynaspark.net/products/

[LTb1ow]

Coil packs still retain the opti, so you really solve nothing. Dynaspark is great if you have lots of money to burn. MSD is a bit cheaper but again, money to burn. AC delco is the way to go.

[Fire_Chicken92]

And this is the coils

http://www.delteq.com/

[Fire_Chicken92]

Assume I have the money.. My bf is gonna post his thoughts later so you guys know what hes going for.

[LTb1ow]

Delteq is out of bussines I think, at least the Opti part. If you really wanna drop the money, prob around a grand, look up LTCC by Bob Bailey.

[LTb1ow]

Just do it right, get a new Opti from GM and be done with it. Also, be sure to install it the right way please.
Although for a cam install, the opti part is there.
http://shbox.com/ci/cam_install.html
Read it over and then decide whether or not to do the install yourself.
And you need a pulley puller.
Also, may want to get new wires and or coil. But thats just me.

[MilanR]

That's what I was thinking either ltcc or delteq but I heard that they're out of business as well. I read an article about opti's once and the guy praised dynasparks up and down and pointed out all the different ways they came up with in order to minimize the problems with stock optis. I also figured that the rotorless design is made to handle higher rpms because after switching over to coils most people wind up taking the rotor out so it doesnt break anyway. We just figured that you guys might know better or have experience with it because I want quality and I want it to last regardless of price. Thanks for the input guys.

[LTb1ow]

People have spun the opti past 6500, and if you need to do that, well then your not stock so thats not really a problem here.
Like I said earlier, if you have the money go for an MSD or dynaspark. I know MSD has a warranty on theirs so you can pull it off and have it fixed.

But its a bad design in the first place, you can not avoid that.
My .03 cents

And LTCC is still in bussiness.

[LTb1ow]

And I assume your the BF? Installing an opti is a bit more shall we say complex than a starter and being the whole mess that happened with that.... may wanna take it to a shop....

[69BirdX]

I would just got with an msd opti

[deadtrend1]

There is no need for you to run coil packs, nor is there really a need to pay for the expensive aftermarket optisparks.

Just get a stock Delco replacement and get the car running. Just don't buy any ebay junk.

[Fire_Chicken92]

And I assume your the BF? Installing an opti is a bit more shall we say complex than a starter and being the whole mess that happened with that.... may wanna take it to a shop....

That wasn't him that messed it up it was already cracked beforehand. Ask 88irocvert he knows what he's doing.

[LTb1ow]

There is no need for you to run coil packs, nor is there really a need to pay for the expensive aftermarket optisparks.

Just get a stock Delco replacement and get the car running. Just don't buy any ebay junk.


Thepartsladi is genuine AC Delco. Thats ebay.

[ZeroCool8891]

the starter in teh saturn was crap, but i agree with the other guys chrissi just get an ac delco one, in my vert i run alot of ac delco stuff, with ignition wise ac delco is the way to go, as far as installing it i dont own a 4th gen, i have worked on them and lt1s i know enuf to get me by but as far as doing the opti yourself, its not a ****ing job im sure milan knows that, i would sujest a good shop but thats kind of hard to do that, but just read up on it and read up more and more, and then go for it but take your time or things will f-up.

[LTb1ow]

Its simple, drain the block, remove belt, remove crank pulley or pulley/hub, take off waterpump(don't lose the coupler), take off old opti, note position of cam dowel, get new opti, align with said dowel in the square hole, slide in, bolt up. Done.

[ZeroCool8891]

yea easy enuf

[LTb1ow]

Hardest part is going to be the damn crank hub/pulley. If you do take off the hub, make sure it goes back on the same way it came off, or you will kick yourself in the ass later when you go to adjust rockers....

[ZeroCool8891]

yea rite, ill prob be there when they are doing it.

[LTb1ow]

Oh boy, should be a lovely post after that one.... " Guess what the Lt1 did....."

[ZeroCool8891]

Oh boy, should be a lovely post after that one.... " Guess what the Lt1 did....."

no it should be ok.

[LTb1ow]

Oh, another big thing, make sure the Opti gets aligned with the right hole.
http://shbox.com/ci/opti_mounting.jpg

[LTb1ow]

Never mind, its a 94, spline driven, in which case I have no idea.

[ZeroCool8891]

haha.

[WildBillyT]

Get a stock GM opti. If you want to delete the opti, delete the LT1 motor instead.

[LTb1ow]

Get a stock GM opti. If you want to delete the opti, delete the LT1 motor instead.

Why the LT1 hating... :|

[sweetbmxrider]

+ whatever the count is on AC DELCO opti. get em while they are still around :rofl:

change the waterpump too if it hasn't been done already. consider a wire set at the same time. also an ac delco coil would be good investment. be sure to use die electric grease between the icm and coil. maybe shim the coil away from the head with a few washers to keep it cooler.

[LTb1ow]

Or mount it on your fuel rails.

[sweetbmxrider]

yeah like literally, tap the rail and all. then we will address your fuel pressure/leak problem next haha

[LTb1ow]

Mine is bolted to the fuel rail, no leaks so far.

[sweetbmxrider]

yeah i meant drill and tap it. but getting it as far from the head is a good thing.

[Fire_Chicken92]

JEGS = AC Delco ?????????????????????????

[ZeroCool8891]

gm = ac delco

[Pampered-Z]

The GM opti is still the best unit out there in my option. Over the past few years we've had lots of problems with the MSD units more then any other.

Why the LT1 hating... :|

People hate the LT1/Opti becuase they just don't understand it.


The opti has two sides, the optical part, which is nothing more then a wheel with holes that are optically scanned to tell the EMC the position of the cam (Low Res), the other side in the cap/rotor ( High Res).

When left stock the units are not bad at all, the problems are heat and wear, same as any distributor.

Upgrading of the ignition system (MSD blaster coil) can cause them to wear faster, as well as additional heat in the unit which leads to failure. But most failures are simply from none service. you see allot of opti failures after cam swaps becuase people doing cam swaps and not checking the cam drive pin, it must be exact! Too short or long even by less then a 1/4" can result in catastrophic failure.

People are reporting 150+K miles on a stock unit. But think about, if you had a car with a traditional cap/rotor wouldn't you replace it every tune up/ xx amount of miles? So people complaining their opti went at 80K miles would be like anyone complaining they needed plugs and wires after allot of miles. Thing wear out! The cap/rotor on an opti need to be replaced just like any other cap/rotor. But few it because it's such a PITA!

The optical side is actually a well designed piece by itself, mating it with distributor was the bad idea! What happens in that the spark (or High Res) side results is heat that cause damage or moisture build up and also the sparking results in corrosive gases that can eventually effect the optical site (GM adding venting in 95 only helps slightly). Then they mounted down low under the water pump, with the weep hole right above it. So it can be splashed on or dripped on. Excess vacuum or boost bleeding back into it can distort the degree wheel causing it to make contact with the sensor. And one touch and the optical side it toast. (Ever see a DASD crash before?).

The cap/rotor is the real point or cause of failure, first it's large compared to a conventional rotor, high RPMs (above say 6800) and the rotors tend to tear themselves apart. Unlike a standard cap/rotor, people tend to not service the opti, and they wear and the voltage has further to jump from the rotor to the cap, results in more loose heat and erratic spark - which will eventually kill the Opti side, This heat and loose spark is what ends up killing the electronics.

Of course once you plan to start spinning above 7,000 you’re now into EMC problems as well. People using aftermarket computers can eliminate the cap/rotor and just use the optical part with great success. Once you've eliminated the spark side you've removed most of the units points of failure. Lots of people are spinning their engines over 8000 RPMs with no problem using only the opti side and remove coils/aftermarket DFI.

I have the Electromotive designed for the LT1 (they only made about 100 of these) which has a module that will convert the opti signal for the DFI. It uses a 4 coil pack (wasted spark system, it fires two cylinders at once, so one spark is wasted as it's firing against a cylinder with an open exhaust valve). Actually with some systems like mine you really only need to know where the cam is once, if you have that, you can determine everything elsewhere. With mine there is a crank position sensor, so once the ECM has stored the crank and cam positions, it can determine which injector to pulse and which coil to fire and reference RPM from the crank wheel. I plan to go a step further and get my cam signal via a standard distributor sensor (Rear mounted dist, but instead of a cap/rotor, it will just be a small signal wheel.

There is also a company that is very close to completing a system to use the LS1 system on the LT1. They appear to have designed a new timing cover that will house a cam sensor; they are just working on improving the crank sensor before it's approved from production. This system should solve all the issues with the LT1 ign system, Longevity and high RPM performance

[LTb1ow]

Can you shed some more info on the LS1 conversion kit?

[Slow96LT1]

check ur pm fire_chicken

[KirkEvil]

Can you shed some more info on the LS1 conversion kit?

The kit includes a For Sale sign and a sharpie marker

[ZeroCool8891]

NICE......

[sweetbmxrider]

no tape? :lol:

[LTb1ow]

You guys suck.
That is all.
LT1 > *

[Knipps]

Woo

step by step
http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repairGuide.htm?pageId=0900c152800b83e7

[sweetbmxrider]

it says to remove the p/s pump. why?

[ZeroCool8891]

HUH why would you do that for.

[deadtrend1]

it says to remove the p/s pump. why?

spark plugs wires run behind it i think

[sweetbmxrider]

yeah but you can change the opti or the wires without removing the pump. they are crazy.

[LTb1ow]

Stock wiring? Nope

[sweetbmxrider]

? ignition wires. yes.

[LTb1ow]

How so? The wires run along side in the looms no? Behind pump me thought.

[sweetbmxrider]

if anything the alternator. they go underneath that.

[LTb1ow]

Stock route?

[sweetbmxrider]

si. they barely go behind the pump. its not hard to change them. plugs on stock manifolds is harder :lol:

you definitely don't need to remove the p/s pump to change them. cause i didn't. alternator yes.

[deadtrend1]

you definitely don't need to remove the p/s pump to change them. cause i didn't. alternator yes.

correct, you don't have to. I just stated that that may be the reason writers of that "how to" say its necessary to pull the water pump.

No need to have a 5 page discussion on it.

[sweetbmxrider]

i wasn't arguing what you said, matt just wouldn't accept. and this is only page three :nod:

we have more ruining to do :lol:

[LTb1ow]

Well PS pump is a bitch to take off anyway, so moral of story, get LTs and OTVC wires. Solved.

[Slow96LT1]

i changed the opti on my car without hte p/s plum being removed

[Pampered-Z]

I saw another write up that said PS pump, but nothing about the Air Pump, so I guess whoever wrote it didn't know the difference! Or probably though it was a PS because that would be the normal location on a SBC.


Can you shed some more info on the LS1 conversion kit?

From what I’ve read, the solution they are working on uses a stock LT1 wiring harness (96-97 = Crank position wiring already there, pre 96 you probably just need to add that wiring), then some type of connector/conversion for the harness to plug into a 99+LS1 ECM. The signal for the cam position was originally done by a sensor that will bolt in the stock location of the opti,, but that might change due to the crank sensor ( read below)….

On the test engine a double roller chain and E-WP is used. I’m not 100% sure if this is actually needed, or if they were just planning that anyone doing this would want to take advantage of higher RPMs so a stock chain would be a typical swap as well?

The problem they have is getting a quality signal for the crank, the LT1 crank sensor is different then the LS1, and cannot easily be adapted. Placing a small wheel within the timing cover doesn’t work because there really isn’t any clearance in the LT1 cover. So the solution may be some type of external wheel, or possible something within the timing chain cover.

As I said previously, my ECM uses an external crank wheel, people had problems with the original mounting point if they ran an E-WP it caused interference. So when I designed my setup I built a relocation bracket. Si it could be some type of signal interfernace issue they are having?

Other then that the rest of the harness basically remains the same.

They have driven the car a few hundered miles and reported it runs great when the crank sensor is working properly.

So once the conversion is done you have no opti, remote coils, an ECM with more potential And you can control the 4L80E trans with it!

** Also note you could now tune your LT1 with HPTuner, allow you to use very robust software,,, And we have local tech support!

[LTb1ow]

That sounds great but does the price make it any better than going with a megasquirt, FAST etc...?

[NJSPEEDER]

Do you actually know what the problem is yet? As in, has it been professionally diagnosed or are you just planning to throw parts at it until you stumble across an answer?

[BonzoHansen]

Do you actually know what the problem is yet? As in, has it been professionally diagnosed or are you just planning to throw parts at it until you stumble across an answer?

B??

[bandit88]

Do you actually know what the problem is yet? As in, has it been professionally diagnosed or are you just planning to throw parts at it until you stumble across an answer?

let's do the second one ;)

[Fire_Chicken92]

Do you actually know what the problem is yet? As in, has it been professionally diagnosed or are you just planning to throw parts at it until you stumble across an answer?

It hasn't been officially diagnosed, but I know that's what it is because the wp main seal went and i had no coolant in the car after that. Thinking logically and using Newton's law to be 100% sure, the coolant could only go one way.. DOWN. And THANK YOU CHEVY what is down? Opti.

And either way, if I throw parts that don't fix it then at least I have new parts :wink:

[deadtrend1]

.......
And either way, if I throw parts that don't fix it then at least I have new parts :wink:

and then you'll have no money .....

[LTb1ow]

It hasn't been officially diagnosed, but I know that's what it is because the wp main seal went and i had no coolant in the car after that. Thinking logically and using Newton's law to be 100% sure, the coolant could only go one way.. DOWN. And THANK YOU CHEVY what is down? Opti.

And either way, if I throw parts that don't fix it then at least I have new parts :wink:

The seal on the waterpump body? if so it would have been a slow drip, how did you not notice the puddles?

[NJSPEEDER]

It hasn't been officially diagnosed, but I know that's what it is because the wp main seal went and i had no coolant in the car after that. Thinking logically and using Newton's law to be 100% sure, the coolant could only go one way.. DOWN. And THANK YOU CHEVY what is down? Opti.

And either way, if I throw parts that don't fix it then at least I have new parts :wink:

I have to ask, did you bother to replace the water pump yet?

[LTb1ow]

I have to ask, did you bother to replace the water pump yet?

Pfft, if she did that, then he theory of the opti could be ruined. :rofl:

[ZeroCool8891]

they did replace the waterpump already.

[NJSPEEDER]

I can't wait to hear what the theory is after the opti is changed and it still runs like poop. lol Maybe there should be a poll about what part to change next. Plugs? Wires? Coil? ECM? Anyone care to guess?

How long was it driven with water spewing every where?

[Fire_Chicken92]

The seal on the waterpump body? if so it would have been a slow drip, how did you not notice the puddles?

Never really looked, it wasn't leaking, then I drove it a little bit, noticed I was overheating, pulled over and no coolant.

I have to ask, did you bother to replace the water pump yet?

I have to ask, do you think I am retarded?

I can't wait to hear what the theory is after the opti is changed and it still runs like poop. lol Maybe there should be a poll about what part to change next. Plugs? Wires? Coil? ECM? Anyone care to guess?

How long was it driven with water spewing every where?

Plugs and wires are bot done. And it just randomly started doing that....


You know, what you call "my theories" are not even what this post was about.. If I want to put excess money into my car and change unnecessary parts, well.. I guess its my wallet hurting not yours.

The topic of the post was an opinion as to which distributor was better, not an opinion as to whether you guys think I am doing it the right way. I appreciate the advice, but asking idiotic things like "did you change the water pump" is kind of pushing it. If YOUR water pump spewed s*** everywhere would you change it? C'mon.

[bubba428]

damn guys, I don't think taking cheap shots is going to help her much......

get the MSD its quite a bit more but I liked mine and I've always heard good things

[WildBillyT]

damn guys, I don't think taking cheap shots is going to help her much......

get the MSD its quite a bit more but I liked mine and I've always heard good things

Bubba:

I am not sure what you are talking about (standard style msd box, dizzy, and coil vs. optispark) but a lot of the aftermarket "late model" ignition parts are not nearly as reliable as factory parts. MSD optis have been known to stop working well before a GM one would, as will their coils. Speaking from experience, I had a set of Accel aftermarket coils go south on my GTP after 127 miles (yes, I counted). Older style MSD stuff is terrific.

[LTb1ow]

Bubba:

I am not sure what you are talking about (standard style msd box, dizzy, and coil vs. optispark) but a lot of the aftermarket "late model" ignition parts are not nearly as reliable as factory parts. MSD optis have been known to stop working well before a GM one would, as will their coils. Speaking from experience, I had a set of Accel aftermarket coils go south on my GTP after 127 miles (yes, I counted). Older style MSD stuff is terrific.

There were a lot of problems with the early variants of the MSD opti, but they seem to have worked out a lot of them. And if they do fail, you can yell at MSD and they will repair them.

[WildBillyT]

There were a lot of problems with the early variants of the MSD opti, but they seem to have worked out a lot of them. And if they do fail, you can yell at MSD and they will repair them.

I didn't know the first part, but as for the second- sure, you can call and yell at them, but that won't get the car on the road right away.

[LTb1ow]

Agreed, but try calling up GM and saying that the opti from a 1993 car is not working well. I would be interested in what they tell you.

[Fire_Chicken92]

lol i did calll gm and tell them that.. and the guy kinda chuckled and said well.. lemme price that for you.. $711.01

[LTb1ow]

Geez, tell them you could get a MSD one for less than that.

[WildBillyT]

lol i did calll gm and tell them that.. and the guy kinda chuckled and said well.. lemme price that for you.. $711.01

Tell him to eat ****. You can do much better than that.

[Pampered-Z]

Tell him to eat ****. You can do much better than that.

Unfortunately that is correct, GM list the none vented Opti at just over $700. Add the gaskets, other materials ( sealant, anti-freeze and labor and your 're looking at over a grand for a dealer to fix it!

Even GMPartsdirect list them for about $375, which is allot of people will go aftermarket.

[WildBillyT]

Unfortunately that is correct, GM list the none vented Opti at just over $700. Add the gaskets, other materials ( sealant, anti-freeze and labor and your 're looking at over a grand for a dealer to fix it!

Even GMPartsdirect list them for about $375, which is allot of people will go aftermarket.

DAMN! Maybe I was looking at prices for a vented opti??

[LTb1ow]

Vented opti FTW. How hard is the conversion?

[sweetbmxrider]

i'd personally stay away from msd's. they seemed to be hit or miss. while ac delco's can see 100k no problem, spinning at stock speed of coarse!

conversion, not that bad, but pretty involved. i saw a write up online. i wouldn't want to do it!

[Knipps]

Vented opti FTW. How hard is the conversion?

form nonvented to vented? Not worth it.

[LTb1ow]

Very worth it. But thats my .02.

[Pampered-Z]

DAMN! Maybe I was looking at prices for a vented opti??

GM dealer prices: ( ugh!)

Vented - $614
None Vented - $709

form nonvented to vented? Not worth it.

Very worth it. But thats my .02.

The conversion is a good idea but only if you're doing allot of mods and want more then the stock timing chain, such as going to a LT4, extreem duty or double roller. If not then just stay with the none vented.

To convert to a vented opti you need: 95-97 timing cover, opti, wiring harness, vent hoses Timing chain set, and a different cam. The 92-94 cams have a different size hole in the front that will not accept the vented opti drive shaft. So for that much effort and money just throw another non-vent in it!

There is actually a kit to vent a none vented opti. It's nothing more then a vacuum hose, T-fitting, filter and some sealer. No definite answer if it really helps? There are 3 vent holes on the bottom of the opti, you seal two holes and use a vacuum hose in the 3rd hole to draw out any mositure out.

[LTb1ow]

With a non vented opti, you can't run a big single roller chain? I didn't want to grind mine so I just went with a pro gear but I guess the timing cover on a 94 is closer to the block? Seems strange to me.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3261/3109291564_44e195942d_b.jpg
Do that!

[deadtrend1]

I don't think a distributor would fit under the cowl.

[LTb1ow]

Thats the optical portion of the opti hacked up, and yes a regular dizzy will fit under the cowl but its tight.

[deadtrend1]

Thats the optical portion of the opti hacked up, and yes a regular dizzy will fit under the cowl but its tight.

then what in the picture are you recommending to do?

[LTb1ow]

Oh, its just a conversion, figured it was cool enough to post. So you use the optical part to trigger coil packs and you can relocated it from under the waterpump, its a win win.

[WildBillyT]

I don't think a distributor would fit under the cowl.

A low profile dizzy might.

[Featherburner]

With a non vented opti, you can't run a big single roller chain? I didn't want to grind mine so I just went with a pro gear but I guess the timing cover on a 94 is closer to the block? Seems strange to me.The 93-94 cover is not closer. It's the lack of performance chain and gear with the proper spline drive for the opti.

[LTb1ow]

The 93-94 cover is not closer. It's the lack of performance chain and gear with the proper spline drive for the opti.


Ahh ok, 95 FTW

[unstable bob gable]

I don't think a distributor would fit under the cowl.

Yes, one will. Back in the 90s there was a company called LT1 Motorsports who did a conversion to run a low profile [non-HEI] style dizzy on the back of an LT1. The owner had a 396 LT1 in a Camero running this set up. They used to have a website, but seem to be defunct now.