ET roll bar rule...

[NJ Torque]

from Rule Book

ROLL CAGE

Roll cage mandatory in cars running 10.99 (*6.99) or quicker or any car exceding 135 mph. In full-bodied cars, with unaltered firewall, floor, and body (from firewall rearward, wheeltubs permitted), runing between 10.00 (*6.40) and 10.99 (*6.99), roll bar permitted in place of roll cage. In convertinles running 10.99 (*6.99) or quicker or exceding 135 mph, roll cage mandatory


Hmm?

[Mike]

what is your question?

[NJ Torque]

Looks like it was lowered, no?

[SRGN]

It appears to be lowered, but who knows. Won't affect you Chris as the only car you have fast enough is the one I sold you and it already has a cage. I'm doing a 10 point in my 67 so I don't have to worry about this crap for a while.

[Mike]

thats from the 09 rule book already?

[NJ Torque]

Yes.

[Squirrel]

thats because there are stock cars that are pushing those numbers, the numbers were lowered mostly because of tons of 03 cobra convertible guys getting booted

[Mike]

its wierd that they would lower the street car requirements at the same time that their safety practices are coming under fire for the upper classes

not complaining, its just wierd

[Blackbirdws6]

umm WOOOT!!! lol

[qwikz28]

this should make jon (b64c) really happy

[Mike]

makes me really happy, its 1700 i can spend next year

[Kat]

Same here. I wont have to worry about hitting 11's in the vert. :cool:

[bad64chevelle]

this should make jon (b64c) really happy

Hell yeah it does!
:w00t:

[79CamaroDiva]

I'm not sure why its making you guys happy... that says specifically for a roll CAGE. a roll BAR is still mandatory for cars 11.49 and qucker. and verts 13.49 and quicker. sorry.

[SRGN]

I'm not sure why its making you guys happy... that says specifically for a roll CAGE. a roll BAR is still mandatory for cars 11.49 and qucker. and verts 13.49 and quicker. sorry.

Some are interpreting the following sentence as the rule dropping from 11.49 to 10.99:

In full-bodied cars, with unaltered firewall, floor, and body (from firewall rearward, wheeltubs permitted), runing between 10.00 (*6.40) and 10.99 (*6.99), roll bar permitted in place of roll cage.

[WildBillyT]

Some are interpreting the following sentence as the rule dropping from 11.49 to 10.49:

I was under the understanding that a bar is good until 10.00. 9.99 is when you need the 10 point.

[SRGN]

I was under the understanding that a bar is good until 10.00. 9.99 is when you need the 10 point.

That is correct. The part that gets confusing is whether the bar will be needed at 11.0 or 11.5. Crap I just realized I said 10.49 instead of 10.99. oops...

[Tru2Chevy]

A BAR is still needed at 11.49, but now a full-bodied, unaltered car will be allowed to run a BAR instead of a CAGE until 9.99 instead of 10.99.

- Justin

[WildBillyT]

A BAR is still needed at 11.49, but now a full-bodied, unaltered car will be allowed to run a BAR instead of a CAGE until 9.99 instead of 10.99.

- Justin

I thought you could already do this. A cage isn't needed until 9.99/135, and to the best of my understanding it has been that way since at least '05- that's when I installed a bar from S&W in a 10.xx car at their instruction.

[Slow 88]

I thought you could already do this. A cage isn't needed until 9.99/135, and to the best of my understanding it has been that way since at least '05- that's when I installed a bar from S&W in a 10.xx car at their instruction.

You are correct..

[SRGN]

I thought you could already do this. A cage isn't needed until 9.99/135, and to the best of my understanding it has been that way since at least '05- that's when I installed a bar from S&W in a 10.xx car at their instruction.

That is correct, 5/6 point bar good to 9.99/135. Many people are reading into the rollbar part as not being needed until 10.99.

[79CamaroDiva]

I thought you could already do this. A cage isn't needed until 9.99/135, and to the best of my understanding it has been that way since at least '05- that's when I installed a bar from S&W in a 10.xx car at their instruction.

I believe what happened is NHRA has now made the cage rule more stringent instead of lenient. They are saying the car has to be completely unaltered in order for it to not need a cage at 10.0 where nothing used to need it until 9.99

[LTb1ow]

Just a quick question, at what time do you need a roll bar?

[79CamaroDiva]

A roll bar is still needed at 11.49 for hard top vehicles, 13.49 for convertibles. I am going to the nhra tech meetings next week so if that changes I'll post it up

[LTb1ow]

Ok thanks, and does it matter if it is a 4,5,or 6 point? Weld in or bolt in? Etc.

[SRGN]

5 point 11.49-10.00, weld in for sure on full frame cars but some unibody cars have gotten by with a bolt-in that has support plates. Unsure if bolt-in is "legal" but some have run them and passed through tech.

[LTb1ow]

Much thanks!

[mc73nova]

I'm not sure why its making you guys happy... that says specifically for a roll CAGE. a roll BAR is still mandatory for cars 11.49 and qucker. and verts 13.49 and quicker. sorry.

I agree. The roll bar/cage is to protect you(the driver) from injury. I went with a 10 point cage just for my own piece of mind, I didnt need it. It will also make it easier for me if I decide to go faster in the future :wink:

[Batman]

I'm not sure why its making you guys happy... that says specifically for a roll CAGE. a roll BAR is still mandatory for cars 11.49 and qucker. and verts 13.49 and quicker. sorry.

Beat me to it, I believe there is an exception for unmodified cars in that rule too, say a Z06 running low 11's high 10's.

[79CamaroDiva]

Beat me to it, I believe there is an exception for unmodified cars in that rule too, say a Z06 running low 11's high 10's.

Yes but has to be factory stock. Down to wheels and tires and air filter.

[Knipps]

Yes but has to be factory stock. Down to wheels and tires and air filter.

What about tune?

[Featherburner]

What about tune?
I don't think they are going to check for a tune.:lol:

[Pampered-Z]

I don't think still holds true. Years ago there use to be a showroom stock / pure stock class where you couldn't change anything, but I haven't seen or heard of that class in years.

[79CamaroDiva]

I don't think still holds true. Years ago there use to be a showroom stock / pure stock class where you couldn't change anything, but I haven't seen or heard of that class in years.

It's not a class, just an exception to the rule on roll bars. However, at 9.99 or 135mph all rules apply.

[LTb1ow]

Kinda random, but say a 6 point roll bar, will that only protect you from your car rolling? Or is it also a side impact protection too?

[mc73nova]

A six point would give you protection because it has the door bars.

[LTb1ow]

K cool, thats what I thought.

[Pampered-Z]

Kinda random, but say a 6 point roll bar, will that only protect you from your car rolling? Or is it also a side impact protection too?

An NHRA legal roll bar will mount either bolting or welded to the body ( in a unibody car - the bars not attached to the frame) using plates to distibute the load that will protect the driver from impact or roll over. The main hoop has to be within a specified distance from the drivers head/helmet. The side bars have to pass between the driver's shoulder and elbow. The side bar is too low on some of the bolt-in kits ( Like the one RK sports sells), which is why they only refer to them as street cages. Looks like a cage, but won't pass tech at the track. I have an S+W cage ( called an 8 point as there is additional braces that run from the main hoop to the trans tunnel), and I have swing outs, the side bar is a bit of a pain when street cruising as it passes by the arm rest in the door right where my eblow would sit, so I just unbolt the side bar if I'm not on the track.

[LTb1ow]

I was looking at Wolfe products.

[Pampered-Z]

I was looking at Wolfe products.

You'll have no problems with their stuff. I liked the rear bars on the S+W better. The Wolf rears mount into the side panels, the S+W extend backinto the trunk well.

[LTb1ow]

And whats the deal with mild steel vs chromeoly?

[WildBillyT]

CM is stronger than mild steel so manufacturers can use thinner walled tubing to save weight. It will cost more, sometimes significantly.

[mc73nova]

CM is stronger than mild steel so manufacturers can use thinner walled tubing to save weight. It will cost more, sometimes significantly.

I have been on the phone with S&W about this and they have said that the CM is lighter than mild steel, but the strength is the same in both.

[Batman]

That is true, pound for pound CM is stronger, but there is less of it used for the cage so it ends up being as strong as steel, but significantly lighter because they don't need to make it as thick

[Pampered-Z]

Just remember that in addition to a CM costing more to purchase, it has to be welded differently ( tig or mig, I forget ) but the install price is much higher as well.

[WildBillyT]

Just remember that in addition to a CM costing more to purchase, it has to be welded differently ( tig or mig, I forget ) but the install price is much higher as well.

CM has to be TIG'd.

[LTb1ow]

Any one have a price range for a weld in install?

[WildBillyT]

Any one have a price range for a weld in install?

That can be a range of amounts. Cheaper installs may be ones where they don't give a crap about fitment and hiding the bar as best they can.

S&W does it themselves and I think they were reasonable. If I were to have it done I would go there.

[LTb1ow]

Are they located in Glasboro?

[WildBillyT]

Spring City PA I believe.
http://www.swracecars.com/

[LTb1ow]

They do installs?

[WildBillyT]

They do installs?

I believe so.

[LTb1ow]

Thanks man

[Pampered-Z]

FYI, when I priced my install it did not include gutting the car, you need to do that yourself ( seats, carpet, console, side panels, headliner all need to be removed). You need to discuss what is in the price such as if you want swing outs and seat belt mounts installed too. Also you probably need to paint it yourself. I used Eastwood sandless primer on the cage, works geat!

A freind and I installed my bar. It's allot of work, the floor plates are a project to get installed, and even with the bars being prenotched we still had to renotch some ends and cut the bars down. It seems like a fairly easy job for the money they charge, but once you see all the stuff you need to go through you'll understand. Trying to get a bead of weld in those tight areas is a total PAIN!

[LTb1ow]

Well is it like SFCs, where I could install it and then bring it to a shop to weld it in?

[WildBillyT]

once you see all the stuff you need to go through you'll understand. Trying to get a bead of weld in those tight areas is a total PAIN!

Yeah. When we did my brother's 8pt we had to do some additional grinding and notching to get the gaps close enough, and then welding on the underside of some of the joints proved to be a huge PITA.

[LTb1ow]

But I could do an install myself correct? Bolt in means bolt in 100%?

[Pampered-Z]

But I could do an install myself correct? Bolt in means bolt in 100%?

Yup

[Mark B]

Are we sure its 13.49 for verts? I was running 13.3/13.2 in my 3rd gen vert at Atco & Englishtown last year and nobody gave me any problems.

[NJ Torque]

Are we sure its 13.49 for verts? I was running 13.3/13.2 in my 3rd gen vert at Atco & Englishtown last year and nobody gave me any problems.

my buddy was going 12.0 in his vette without a bar...

Its suppose to be modded cars 13.49, stock cars lower... who knows.

[79CamaroDiva]

Are we sure its 13.49 for verts? I was running 13.3/13.2 in my 3rd gen vert at Atco & Englishtown last year and nobody gave me any problems.

Positive, but that doesn't mean it gets enforced. Whether or not the state police are there plays a big factor in the vert rule. It's also easily overlooked so they might just not have noticed it was a vert running those times.

[NastyEllEssWon]

yeah i heard they have to make exceptions for some verts...like vipers, terminators, vettes and fbodies because some of them run lower than the 13.5 stock.




they just dont want 13 second miatas showing up and trashing itself

[79CamaroDiva]

yeah i heard they have to make exceptions for some verts...like vipers, terminators, vettes and fbodies because some of them run lower than the 13.5 stock.




they just dont want 13 second miatas showing up and trashing itself

The only true exception is if a car is completely factory stock and runs lower than 13.5. then it is allowed to go down to 11.5.

However, factory means factory, including tires, air cleaner, etc.

[TaKid455]

is a T tops car considered/ viewed as a convertible or hardtop?

my guess is hardtop as you still retain a rear piller ( B or C depending on view)

[Tru2Chevy]

T-tops are treated as a hard top.

- Justin