Sigh... more tickets, need advice [Archive] - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

r0nin89

12-17-2008, 02:10 PM

It wasnt me this time but rather my girlfriend. Shes from PA and was returning to her house today about 45mins ago. She was just on the border of PA and NJ (I have to ask what town again) when a cop pulled her over. He came up to the car and asked her if she knew what she did. She said no and the guy got pissed off.

So being that she doesnt know how serious that is she calls me up and calmly tells me the story. Said she was doing 65 in a 55 and was passing in the left lane. She said he seemed like he was pissed because she said she didnt know what she did wrong. His explanation was that she was in the left lane (which apparently is a crime no matter what the circumstances), was doing 80mph, and failed to signal when she pulled over for him.

He wrote her for 80 in a 65, reckless (which his explanation was that its because the road is wet, meant while she said there was no ice and it was sunny), driving in the left lane, and failure to signal.

As of right now she plans to delay the court date as long as legally possibly. I guess I'll wind up defending her to the best of my abilities seeing as how she doesnt have the money to pay for a lawyer and the tickets.

The thing that really gets me is that this is the same town that told her her taillight was out and when i went to replace it it worked perfectly fine. I have a few questions of my own though.

1) Do points transfer from NJ to PA? She is registered, insured, and has her license there.
2) When a cop is traveling towards you on the other side of the road is radar accurate?
3) What is the definition of passing and not passing legally?

WildBillyT

12-17-2008, 02:13 PM

FWIW You can't drive in the left lane. It's supposed to be drive right, pass left. You are only supposed to use the left lane to pass someone going under the speed limit.

12-17-2008, 02:16 PM

from what i know, points do transfer, but only a max of 2. so if its say 6 points in PA, itll only be 2 that come to NJ... someone can correct me if im wrong, but thats hows its been with me in NY and VA

PolarBear

12-17-2008, 02:18 PM

So being that she doesnt know how serious that is she calls me up and calmly tells me the story. Said she was doing 65 in a 55 and was passing in the left lane. She said he seemed like he was pissed because she said she didnt know what she did wrong. His explanation was that she was in the left lane (which apparently is a crime no matter what the circumstances), was doing 80mph, and failed to signal when she pulled over for him.

He wrote her for 80 in a 65, reckless (which his explanation was that its because the road is wet, meant while she said there was no ice and it was sunny), driving in the left lane, and failure to signal.

As of right now she plans to delay the court date as long as legally possibly. I guess I'll wind up defending her to the best of my abilities seeing as how she doesnt have the money to pay for a lawyer and the tickets.

1) Do points transfer from NJ to PA? She is registered, insured, and has her license there.

Most of this sounds like small time town cop. I got something similar in Plainsboro. He put Pace for speeding, failing to use directional and reckless because I was weaving in and out of cars when the real story is; he was NEVER behind me so he could not have "paced" me, I DID use my directional and there were no other cars around for me to be in and out of. At the end he said he could have given me a ticket for evading. HE WAS NEVER BEHIND ME, and he didnt have lights on until he turned down the street I was on.

I would get a lawyer for this as it will get turned around on you/her very quickly.
And points transfer between most states now, PA/NJ are reciprocal so they will show up on her record but way after the fact then she will have to wait until the actually show up->then wait 3 years before they come off.

r0nin89

12-17-2008, 02:30 PM

O heres the best part. I just asked her the court date and she said it was Jan 11th A ****ing sunday. What a crock of **** this is.

Btw it was in Sparta, Sussex County.

PolarBear

12-17-2008, 02:31 PM

O heres the best part. I just asked her the court date and she said it was Jan 11th A ****ing sunday. What a crock of **** this is.

Btw it was in Sparta, Sussex County.

NO NO NO! The daye on the ticket is NEVER your court date!!
If you are pleading not guilty you have to call the court and you will get a NEW court date. Plus Municipalaties are not usually open on weekends.

r0nin89

12-17-2008, 02:36 PM

NO NO NO! The daye on the ticket is NEVER your court date!!
If you are pleading not guilty you have to call the court and you will get a NEW court date. Plus Municipalaties are not usually open on weekends.

The cop looked at her and asked her what her court date is. She said Jan 11th and he goes I just wanted to make sure you knew.

WildBillyT

12-17-2008, 02:38 PM

O heres the best part. I just asked her the court date and she said it was Jan 11th A ****ing sunday. What a crock of **** this is.

Btw it was in Sparta, Sussex County.

This is madness!:mrgreen:

r0nin89

12-17-2008, 02:45 PM

O wait now heres an ever better part. She misread it its not the 11th its the friggin 1st a holiday.

PolarBear

12-17-2008, 02:48 PM

O wait now heres an ever better part. She misread it its not the 11th its the friggin 1st a holiday.

Seriously she HAS to call for a NG plea and it wont be on a FEDERAL Holiday :|
I have been to court a few times.... 8-)

CamaroGirlie

12-17-2008, 03:30 PM

Your answer to number 2 is NO the radar is not accurate when the cop is coming at you.

deadtrend1

12-17-2008, 03:51 PM

This is madness!:mrgreen:

no ... THIS ... IS ... SPARTA!

and if she gets a lawer then the lawer will be able to reschedula the court date also

sweetbmxrider

12-17-2008, 03:59 PM

Your answer to number 2 is NO the radar is not accurate when the cop is coming at you.

incorrect. it has two settings, driving and stationary.

your court date isn't january 1st, call them and you will receive a new one in the mail.

your biggest issue is wreckless. thats a huge ticket, one i never received. this is the main thing i would fight at. how is her record? to continue to postpone, call at least a week before the court date, ask for an adjournment, and give a legit reason. or say you are trying to hire an attorney but can't find one you can afford.

i believe points from jersey will transfer to pa, as it works the other way. i believe you receive their points plus 2 if you live in jersey. not sure never had this happen.

your best defense, being out-of-state, request to submit a written affidavit. plead that you are not guilty giving the best reasons you can, a tree obstructing his view, i dono sun glare, something that will contest his word. your lucky day would be if he does not submit a letter in his defense. the tickets would then be thrown out and she would be a free woman! very rare but possible.

PolarBear

12-17-2008, 04:04 PM

your biggest issue is wreckless. thats a huge ticket, one i never received. this is the main thing i would fight at.

+1 on this. This is what I actually pled guilty to, I was tricked by the judge and I lost my license for 60 days? I dont remember if it was 30 or 60. That in NJ is a 5 point ticket and they can suspend you for it. This is the most difficult for you to prove/disprove. It is your word against the officers
I would get a laywer whether she can afford or not because if she is found guilty it is going to cost a lot more than the $500-$700 (when I had to defend for something else) in the long run.

deadtrend1

12-17-2008, 04:43 PM

incorrect. it has two settings, driving and stationary.

yup

It shoots two beams. One at the ground to determine speed of the police car, and one foward to determine the speed of your car.

I asked that to an off duty officer at a CI meet and thats what he said

Tsar

12-17-2008, 04:50 PM

1) Yes regardless of your violation in PA it will transfer to NJ as two points...

Do not speed, not even by 5mph, in Sparta, NJ, ever, you will get a ticket every time.

Teds89IROC

12-17-2008, 05:23 PM

in regards to the title:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/TeddyHELLO/random/liarliar-still25.jpg

CamaroGirlie

12-17-2008, 05:44 PM

yup

It shoots two beams. One at the ground to determine speed of the police car, and one foward to determine the speed of your car.

I asked that to an off duty officer at a CI meet and thats what he said

Oh my bad....my father in law told me that their radars don't acurately catch the speed of oncoming traffic and it can be fought and won in court (he's a hamilton township police officer)

maroman88

12-17-2008, 05:54 PM

in regards to the title:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/TeddyHELLO/random/liarliar-still25.jpg

best line everrrr

sweetbmxrider

12-17-2008, 06:01 PM

Oh my bad....my father in law told me that their radars don't acurately catch the speed of oncoming traffic and it can be fought and won in court (he's a hamilton township police officer)

alot of things can affect the accuracy of the gun. you may be on to something. somehow using this to get the wreckless dropped would be in the OP's best interest.

nj85z28

12-17-2008, 06:01 PM

be prepared to be screwed to the wall in sparta court.

Knipps

12-17-2008, 07:17 PM

I got screwed by my lawyer when they attempted to throw Reckless at me.

About 2 weeks after my ticket I got a bunch of letters in the mail from ambulance chasers who wanted to defend me. My dad picked one and we never saw the guy until the court date. (waiting in the courtroom!) Once my name was called I'm not even really sure what happened, I answered some Y/N questions and we were out of there. Turns out they only got it knocked down to Careless (still 3 pts) and I was out $400 for the lawyer PLUS everything else. I was sore the next day :evil:

WildBillyT

12-17-2008, 08:26 PM

Careless is only 2...

35thls1ss19

12-17-2008, 08:56 PM

she is from pa? i dotn think they will catch the points there if the ticket was in nj. My friend lost his license in nj and the week before he waqs suppose to went and got a po box in pa and and got a pa license. from any other state if you have a nj license 2 points transfer with any ticket no matter what the points. Been there :( but that jersey for you. they check every other state for points you might have, i dotn think pa is the same.

Squirrel

12-17-2008, 09:28 PM

in regards to the title:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/TeddyHELLO/random/liarliar-still25.jpg

stop breaking the law *******!!!

ryanfx

12-17-2008, 09:50 PM

Most of this sounds like small time town cop. I got something similar in Plainsboro. He put Pace for speeding, failing to use directional and reckless because I was weaving in and out of cars when the real story is; he was NEVER behind me so he could not have "paced" me, I DID use my directional and there were no other cars around for me to be in and out of. At the end he said he could have given me a ticket for evading. HE WAS NEVER BEHIND ME, and he didnt have lights on until he turned down the street I was on.

I would get a lawyer for this as it will get turned around on you/her very quickly.
And points transfer between most states now, PA/NJ are reciprocal so they will show up on her record but way after the fact then she will have to wait until the actually show up->then wait 3 years before they come off.

I live in plainsboro.... they def hassle here :(

Knipps

12-17-2008, 11:48 PM

Careless is only 2...

My point still stands (I wasn't sure if it was 2 or 3)

WildBillyT

12-18-2008, 08:22 AM

My point still stands (I wasn't sure if it was 2 or 3)

Yep. Wasn't trying to be a dick but I wanted the right info on here.

rscamaro73

12-18-2008, 12:35 PM

Sucks regardless, because more people are seeing that the police are lying on tickets and the judges will go with the cop 99.999% of the time, unless it was a completely incompetent mistake they made that the ticketed person gets off.

FOR EXAMPLE.....

I had to go to court for my son yesterday because of a 'fight' he got in at school. A girl said "I ought to hit you"....he said "do it" from his seat...in class, in front of the teacher. Girl hits him and he gets up to straighten her up (he's the smallest kid in his class). So the teachers drag HIS behind out of the room. Now he gets a 'ticket' mailed here for "harassment".....fast fwd to yesterday....cop comes in and is talking to one of the people from school. I DISTINCTLY hear her say "are you going to help me LIE about this".......now, I'm about 8 feet from her when she says this.

Needless to say, I'm losing my faith in the saying "to serve and protect".....more like "i'm above the law mutha fukkaz so deal with it". Granted its not all of them, but until you show me that this isn't happening and personal integrity is being upheld, then I'll keep my feeling the way they are.

As for the OP's ticketed issues - you can get them head on with VASCAR (radar). You must get questioned the calibration date and how it was calibrated (and the technique - some use a 'tuning fork'). Of course they'll say it was calibrated before his shift....so ask for the paperwork saying he did it as verification. Otherwise its just 'his word'.

Yeah, I too have had a few trips to traffic court....:nod:

Frosty

12-18-2008, 01:55 PM

If she lives in PA/licensed in PA the points DO NOT transfer. She'll pay whatever fines and be done with it. The only thing that might hurt/transfer over is the reckless. I'm not sure if PA considers that a "major" offense. If they do she BETTER get it knocked down. I'm going from memory here, both states are part of the DLC but PA only punishes you for out of state infractions involving DUI and I "think" reckless. If she gets the reckless knocked down she should be fine.

79T/A

12-18-2008, 02:11 PM

First and foremost, there are two sides to every story. From what I read in the original post, the gf got FOUR tickets, all of them MOVING VIOLATIONS. Reckless, speeding, driving on the left and failure to signal when pulling over. As a Sussex County resident, I know very well that Sparta is a HUGE motor vehicle town; it's pretty much all they do there. Still, for someone to write four MOVING violations, I can't help but think SOMETHING set this cop off. I don't know if it was her tone, attitude, I wasn't there. But he's definitely peeved to write that many movers.

I would suck it up and find a good (Notice I said 'good,' not 'ambulance chaser') attorney. Walk into court without one with that many expensive summonses and it'll end up costing more than the lawyer's fee. Those four, if not dismissed, are good for at least nine points. If he was p.o.'d enough to write that many summonses, then he'll be p.o.'d enough to push for guilty pleas for all of them.

I don't know enough to condemn the cop, but I do know enough that I don't speed in Sparta.

r0nin89

12-19-2008, 12:29 AM

I guess you guys missed it. She called me up and said she checked the tickets and she got a careless not a reckless. She was digging around today and say that the speeding is 4 pts apparently? (80 in a 55), and all the others are 2pts each? I gotta look into it more. If the points drop then I'm gonna tell her to just go pay it no?

And as for what set the cop off. When he asked, do you know what you did wrong? Her answer was an honest no and he got pissed.

Frosty

12-19-2008, 07:26 AM

I missed the careless driving part. Just to be clear...she lives in PA, she's licensed in PA and the cars are registered in PA right? If so the points won't transfer.

r0nin89

12-19-2008, 10:44 AM

I missed the careless driving part. Just to be clear...she lives in PA, she's licensed in PA and the cars are registered in PA right? If so the points won't transfer.

Fing awesome thank you! I'm putting the court date of for her one time and telling them we're trying to find a lawyer we can afford as suggested and then shes just gonna pay them.

Fleetwiz

12-19-2008, 11:15 AM

RT 15 ?
Sparta prosecutor will normally deal with you...they looking for the revenue.

r0nin89

12-19-2008, 11:57 AM

RT 15 ?
Sparta prosecutor will normally deal with you...they looking for the revenue.

I know they are but since the points dont transfer they can eat it and get the minimum. Theres no point in getting a plea bargain and driving the cost up if the points arent gonna transfer anyway.

PolarBear

12-19-2008, 01:21 PM

I missed the careless driving part. Just to be clear...she lives in PA, she's licensed in PA and the cars are registered in PA right? If so the points won't transfer.

I am not 100% sure about that. I tried to find out about moving violations on the PA site and it doesnt say ANYTHING about out of state. I would go to or call one of the DMV locations and talk to someone there.
Leave it up to the internet to NOT have info you want to find

jin1481

12-19-2008, 01:39 PM

all the tickets i got in nc just transferred as out of state moving violations 2pts. all my nc tickets were 15 overs and reckless's...i got driving privilege revoked for 1 year in nc.

Frosty

12-19-2008, 02:13 PM

I am not 100% sure about that. I tried to find out about moving violations on the PA site and it doesnt say ANYTHING about out of state. I would go to or call one of the DMV locations and talk to someone there.
Leave it up to the internet to NOT have info you want to find

I've been through it ;) Unless it's reckless, DUI or something major the points don't transfer.

The only moving violation ticket I've ever earned since I started driving was 75 in a 50 in Waterford Twp. No points transferred. The sites I read said that unless it's major PA could care less. I'll try to find the site(s) later.

NastyEllEssWon

12-19-2008, 02:39 PM

PA drivers in NJ do not get points and isnt a 'transferrable penalty' state. nj on the otherhand is. which means whatever you do in pa will reflect as if you were driving in nj and the punishment is just as if you did it in nj.

fwiw

you might want to contact local law enforcement before the court date and as a measure of ''discovery'' for the court date you want to see the ticketing officers credentials regarding his radar gun operations/calibration and there should be some type of documents as to when the last time his radar gun was calibrated. if they fail to have their documents in order you might just catch them sleeping :lol:

sweetbmxrider

12-19-2008, 03:11 PM

they won't send him discovery, you definitely need an attorney. i know they should, but they won't.

r0nin89

12-19-2008, 03:43 PM

they won't send him discovery, you definitely need an attorney. i know they should, but they won't.

Yeah especially being 19yo kid. The judge is going to laugh in my face when I ask for what I am lawfully entitled to, slam his gavel and say pay on your way out kid.

sweetbmxrider

12-19-2008, 03:47 PM

:lol: no you should be able to contact the court/police department requesting discovery. my attorney mailed a copy of the letter they sent. it had at least 20 questions. they never received discovery but court still proceeded. got the date pushed 3 months at least.

NastyEllEssWon

12-20-2008, 01:44 AM

discovery is constitutionally protected. I've been involved in quite a few legal proceedings and have always appeared before the court Pro Se (self rep). If you request discovery they will then have to send you back an Objectivity questionaire to find out if you have a valid discovery request. You cant just request discovery to go on a ''fishing'' trip.

What you can do is state your reasons back formally. It seems you have a valid role for discovery. If they fail to comply to your requests for discovery you must go to the corresponding courthouse and file a ''request for discovery subpoena'' at which time you return back to the police station and serve them. If they still fail to comply they will be forced to pay a fine and whatever charges, corresponding to inevitable discovery, will either be dismissed partially or entirely.

the system works for you if you make it work for you. everyone is just too lazy.

nj96z28

12-20-2008, 01:51 AM

reckless or wreckless ( w/a) basically counts as an 80 in a 55 or w/e as far as points go. thats pry what he said to her. She most likely got the ticket for passing and exceeding in snow conditions. I understand it isnt snowing anymore but their attitude changes quickly with road conditions. get a lawyer and get it reduced or sweet talk the prosecutor by using the court appointed whom youll talk with before court starts. be grateful its not in Rutherford or Teaneck :)