No Z/28 for 2010

[Camaro.Joe.LT1]

It seems like Chevrolet is not going to produce a Z/28 model for 2010.
I checked their web site and they have an LT,RS,SS. I did not see any
mention of a Z/28, in my opinion the Z/28 is the what the camaro is all
about. If they fail to produce a Z/28 I think sales won't be as good as if
they have the Z in the line up. There is just something you feel when you
drive a Z/28, the SS is fine but that comes with a hefty price tag as we all
know. And anything else just won't cut it. LT no way RS not really, A Z/28 /
RS would be cool. It's like Pontiac not producing a trans am anymore, or
ford not producing a mustang GT. Lets hope if Chevy comes out with this
car that we've been waiting years for, they produce a Z/28 model.

[Mike]

umm wasnt it always gonna be one year behind? its supposed to come out with the convertible

[NJSPEEDER]

There was no plan for a 2010 Z28 that I ever heard about.

[NJ346]

It's like Pontiac not producing a trans am anymore, or ford not producing a mustang GT. Lets hope if Chevy comes out with this car that we've been waiting years for, they produce a Z/28 model.

That's a stupid comparison with ford. The GT is not the top of the line mustang(I.e. the Cobra). Z28 may come out in 2012 if not later if the camaro sells well. And whats wrong, a 422hp SS isn't good enough?

[BigAls87Z28]

There was never going to be a Z28 for the 2010 model year.

[sweetbmxrider]

lets just hope for the camaro for now

[NJSPEEDER]

They are already in production and filling up holding areas. There is no "hoping" for the Camaro anymore, just waiting for delivery.

[BigAls87Z28]

Actually, production will be delayed one month due to problems with a bankrupt supplier. Cadence, a tooling company, went Chap 11 and is holding some of the tooling equipment for the Camaro hostage. GM is currently suing them for the lost money as well as the return of the equipment.
Production will now start on March 16th, not Feb. That means on sale by late March, early April.

[sweetbmxrider]

they said late spring/early summer for delivery to dealers.....

i can see it keep getting pushed. its like smelling a freshly baked cake but having to wait for it to cool.

[Tsar]

If they fail to produce a Z/28 I think sales won't be as good as if
they have the Z in the line up.
Fail. V6 version is what is gonna make or break this car not the uber cool z28.

[BonzoHansen]

Fail. V6 version is what is gonna make or break this car not the uber cool z28.

I agree. IMO the base Camaro being 300hp is nuts. GM probably killed the timid v6 stang driving market yet again. I believe some people are going to drive it and find out its too damn fast. The car needs the ecotech for the base. Don’t market it by #of cyl, market it by CID or HP. You want that in 2.4L, 3.6L or 6.2L? 240hp, 300hp or 420hp? Holy crap, 240 is better than top Camaro HP from like 74-90.

[WildBillyT]

I agree. IMO the base Camaro being 300hp is nuts. GM probably killed the timid v6 stang driving market yet again. I believe some people are going to drive it and find out its too damn fast. The car needs the ecotech for the base. Don’t market it by #of cyl, market it by CID or HP. You want that in 2.4L, 3.6L or 6.2L? 240hp, 300hp or 420hp? Holy crap, 240 is better than top Camaro HP from like 74-90.

QFT.

If the V6 model can't get it done, that's it. Done.

[sweetbmxrider]

agreed

[Camaro.Joe.LT1]

That's a stupid comparison with ford. The GT is not the top of the line mustang(I.e. the Cobra). Z28 may come out in 2012 if not later if the camaro sells well. And whats wrong, a 422hp SS isn't good enough?

The Z/28 is not the top of the line camaro the SS is, so making the comparison
I was correct, the GT would be equal to a Z/28 and the SS would be equal
to a cobra. And the SS is fine but the price tag is much more than a Z/28
as compared to the 2002 last year. A Z/28 logo would look really good in that front grill.

[WildBillyT]

The Z/28 is not the top of the line camaro the SS is, so making the comparison
I was correct, the GT would be equal to a Z/28 and the SS would be equal
to a cobra. And the SS is fine but the price tag is much more than a Z/28
as compared to the 2002 last year. A Z/28 logo would look really good in that front grill.

Unless they are going back to their first gen roots. Which it looks like, based on the body styling and other cues. In that case the Z/28 is the top of the line.

[BigAls87Z28]

I agree. IMO the base Camaro being 300hp is nuts. GM probably killed the timid v6 stang driving market yet again. I believe some people are going to drive it and find out its too damn fast. The car needs the ecotech for the base. Don’t market it by #of cyl, market it by CID or HP. You want that in 2.4L, 3.6L or 6.2L? 240hp, 300hp or 420hp? Holy crap, 240 is better than top Camaro HP from like 74-90.


But is it? Lets look at the field

The Camry, Accord and Altima, along with the Buick LaCrosse, have V6s ranging from 260-280hp V6.
The Chevy Malibu will also most likely get the same 280 V6 from the LaX, but it currently has a 252hp.
The Hyundai Gensis Coupe, 370Z, and G37 coupes will have a 300-330hp V6's.
BMW 335, next gen CLK, Audi A5 have high hp V6 engines at 300hp.
The Pontiac Solstice GXP, with a minor upgrade of its turbo, makes 300hp.

Looking into the future, the Ford Mustang V6 will get a 270-300hp V6 as its base motor, and the Pheonix engines, if Chrysler is still around, will also make near 300hp.

Camaro is just ahead of the game. Camaro is targeting the sports coupe market, and in that sports coupe market, the entrance fee for V6 is gunna be 300hp now...not to mention what will be in 3-4 years.

[BigAls87Z28]

The Z/28 is not the top of the line camaro the SS is, so making the comparison
I was correct, the GT would be equal to a Z/28 and the SS would be equal
to a cobra. And the SS is fine but the price tag is much more than a Z/28
as compared to the 2002 last year. A Z/28 logo would look really good in that front grill.

Wrong, as Bill pointed out.

Z28 always has been and will continue to be the top of the line. Dont let 7 out of 35 years make you belive that SS was ever the king.

Z28 will return as a performance-focused model.

As for the price of an 2010 Camaro SS vs 2002 Camaro SS, its maybe 2-3 thousand dollars. SS starts at 30,995 while the 2002 SS started at what, 29k? Considering wha the new one offers over the 02 SS, which is laundry list in size, the new SS is a bargin.

[Camaro.Joe.LT1]

A v6 just don't sound like a v8, they have that sorta rice sound, and that kills
the feeling. jmo

[BigAls87Z28]

Well, many LT1 and perhaps some stock LS1's will get a very different feeling when "ricer" V6's are neck and neck with them...

The V6 is a perfect shot at affordable performance.

[Camaro.Joe.LT1]

A 450HP LS type V8 Z/28 would be perfect.

[WildBillyT]

A v6 just don't sound like a v8, they have that sorta rice sound, and that kills
the feeling. jmo


I agree with you on that. I wouldn't describe it as "rice" as that sound typically comes from an inline engine, but it definetly sounds more "hollow" compared to a V8.

To me, nothing sounds better than a big hydraulic flat tappet cam in a carbed big block. Fuel injection and roller cams are better in just about every other way... but not sound.

[BonzoHansen]

But is it? Lets look at the field

The Camry, Accord and Altima, along with the Buick LaCrosse, have V6s ranging from 260-280hp V6.
The Chevy Malibu will also most likely get the same 280 V6 from the LaX, but it currently has a 252hp.
The Hyundai Gensis Coupe, 370Z, and G37 coupes will have a 300-330hp V6's.
BMW 335, next gen CLK, Audi A5 have high hp V6 engines at 300hp.
The Pontiac Solstice GXP, with a minor upgrade of its turbo, makes 300hp.

Looking into the future, the Ford Mustang V6 will get a 270-300hp V6 as its base motor, and the Pheonix engines, if Chrysler is still around, will also make near 300hp.

Camaro is just ahead of the game. Camaro is targeting the sports coupe market, and in that sports coupe market, the entrance fee for V6 is gunna be 300hp now...not to mention what will be in 3-4 years.

But the base engine for most of those cars is less. The 'secretary' that looks at a 2 door accord will buy a 4cyl car w/o blinking.

[BigAls87Z28]

But the base engine for most of those cars is less. The 'secretary' that looks at a 2 door accord will buy a 4cyl car w/o blinking.

Yes, but the majority of the coupe sales are V6. Accord coupe is somewhere at 65%, Altima coupe is 70%, and Solara is 70-75%.
GM isnt looking to move a half a million units, they are looking for 100k. If they can grab a few people out of thier 350Z's, Accord coupes, or even STi's and Evo's, with that 300hp V6, thats great. Some people dont want a V8, but dont want to sacrafice power. Thoes people buy Accord V6's cause the Mustang is a dog not ot mention the new Accord coupe is 100x better looking then the lowly chubby looking V6 Mustang.

Bring a stylish coupe, offering world class handling, great power, and class-leading...yes I said class leading...fuel economy, where the hell is the downside? It has 300hp AND gets 27mpg highway? And runs on regular?
There is no downside, its is only good.
Maybe...MAYBE if the market shows it, GM could put the new 3.0 DI motor in as a base motor making 265hp, but price wouldnt change much and would be offerd only in the base LS car.

[WildBillyT]

Yes, but the majority of the coupe sales are V6. Accord coupe is somewhere at 65%, Altima coupe is 70%, and Solara is 70-75%.
GM isnt looking to move a half a million units, they are looking for 100k. If they can grab a few people out of thier 350Z's, Accord coupes, or even STi's and Evo's, with that 300hp V6, thats great. Some people dont want a V8, but dont want to sacrafice power. Thoes people buy Accord V6's cause the Mustang is a dog not ot mention the new Accord coupe is 100x better looking then the lowly chubby looking V6 Mustang.

Bring a stylish coupe, offering world class handling, great power, and class-leading...yes I said class leading...fuel economy, where the hell is the downside? It has 300hp AND gets 27mpg highway? And runs on regular?
There is no downside, its is only good.
Maybe...MAYBE if the market shows it, GM could put the new 3.0 DI motor in as a base motor making 265hp, but price wouldnt change much and would be offerd only in the base LS car.

Al,

It's the DI V6 that's currently in the STS, right?

[BigAls87Z28]

Its in a few other vehicles, but yes same 3.6 SIDI V6.

[NJSPEEDER]

A v6 just don't sound like a v8, they have that sorta rice sound, and that kills
the feeling. jmo

Price and image sell more cars than HP and badges ever can. There will be a nearly $10k jump from base V6 to a Z28 model. While those of us that want the extra power would only shop V6, the masses will flock to the sporty, fun to drive, and reasonable priced V6 car.

Look at any year of pony car history, the lower trims have always outsold the base top trim by 3:1 or better. Every brand, every model, the lowest few trims options are what drives sales.

[sweetbmxrider]

people are going to see the name camaro and won't think at all about how it will benefit them in today's economy. it seems to be in bad taste for gm, in the shape they are in, to be targeting the "sport coupe" market. that is just my feeling.

[NJSPEEDER]

What are you talking about? GM is in the business of selling cars and they have a bullseye drawn on a price/style segment that sells over a million units a year world wide. How can it be in bad taste to try to take a piece of that pie?

[BigAls87Z28]

people are going to see the name camaro and won't think at all about how it will benefit them in today's economy. it seems to be in bad taste for gm, in the shape they are in, to be targeting the "sport coupe" market. that is just my feeling.

I understand, but thats why there is such thing as marketing.
Problem is... GM couldnt market gold.

[sweetbmxrider]

i'm not the one asking for a bailout because my company is failing. i'd like to see the camaro be successful but i really don't see it happening.

edit: yes exactly al, gm sucks at advertising. though their truck commercials are pretty good and it seems to work as far as i know. isn't their truck line the best selling?

[BigAls87Z28]

Trucks are still the best selling vehicles in the land.
GM's trucks are the #1 selling vehicle in America, 2nd is Ford's.

GM's business isnt failing, the market is gone because people have no money to spend. Everyone is failing.
GM is showing a bunch of gas friendly vehicles at the autoshow in Detroit, but so is everyone.
But GM cannot give up on everything else, especially a market where there is a massive aftermarket investment made by the owner of these vehicles.

[NJSPEEDER]

I think with the new Howie Long truck ads GM has finally picked up on how to sell a little. They are directly criticizing the offerings from the other brands. Hopefully they will keep it going and show how well the mileage, standard feature, and warranty stack up against their direct competition.

[sweetbmxrider]

so are you saying GMPP is going to put out some cool ****?

[WildBillyT]

so are you saying GMPP is going to put out some cool ****?

GMPP has put out some cool ****.

[NJSPEEDER]

GMPP has put out some cool ****.

And they charge a million ****in dollars for it all. GMPP is not lacking product, they are lack price competitiveness. The GMPP for the Cobalt SS was like $700 list and you could get a deal from your GMPP dealer and only pay $500, even a K&N overpriced CAI was only $300 at the time.

Only thing GMPP has going for it are some good crate motors with a warranty.

[BigAls87Z28]

I think the commercials are good, but in the end come off petty and stupid.

GM needs to regroup and redevelop thier image. They arent doing that by saying "Thoes guys suck, we are better!" commercials.

But really, now is not the time. GM needs to do some heavy, and I mean deep and hurtful moves, before it rolls out a new ad campagin.

[sweetbmxrider]

yeah they should work with the pricing more and push it when selling the cars. or have sick brochures and videos and all that good stuff. displays....

[Mike]

I understand, but thats why there is such thing as marketing.
Problem is... GM couldnt market gold.

its worse than that, gm couldnt market oil

[NJSPEEDER]

I think the commercials are good, but in the end come off petty and stupid.

As opposed to Toyota comparing full size brakes to S10 brakes or the Ford Dennis Leary commercials? I think they are right in line with a bit more of a fight fire with fire attitude that GM needs.

Everyone else has gotten away with talking down GM in their commercials for too long. It is about time that GM stopped trying to take some moral high road and flat pointed out the what and why that makes their products better.

[BigAls87Z28]

Agreed, but that I think is what truck people want. Its a man thing.

So far, best commercials out there right now are the Honda "family" commercials where family members are driving in a Honda product, and they are helping people do something, or they go to meet some family. It talks about how Honda has always been by your side, so nothing will change.

Honda is taking the moral high ground. IMO, Chevy should revamp the "Our Country" country music stupidity that abandons the coasts, and turn it into how Chevy has always been there, how its gunna be there, and what its gunna do for the future to be there for you.

[BonzoHansen]

its worse than that, gm couldnt market oil

If GM had the cure for cancer no one would know it.

[sweetbmxrider]

If GM had the cure for cancer no one would know it.

:rofl:

[BonzoHansen]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/gm_covered_with_giant_tarp

[Knipps]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/gm_covered_with_giant_tarp

According to Wagoner, the automotive giant spent its last $18 on cinder blocks to help secure the tarp.

:lol:

[sweetbmxrider]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/gm_covered_with_giant_tarp

is this for serious? no, its not. nevermind. funny though.

[Tru2Chevy]

Actually, production will be delayed one month due to problems with a bankrupt supplier. Cadence, a tooling company, went Chap 11 and is holding some of the tooling equipment for the Camaro hostage. GM is currently suing them for the lost money as well as the return of the equipment.
Production will now start on March 16th, not Feb. That means on sale by late March, early April.

:w00t:

Great B-day present for me from GM :)

- Justin