Getting a lawsuit together!

[ta350]

As many of you know about my horrible experience trying to trade in my truck for a car a week or so ago, I have decided to start to gather info for filing a lawsuit. Based on the following scam:

Scam 8. The Whole Truth About Used Cars
Dealerships are required to disclose material known facts about a used vehicle such as if the vehicle was:


involved in a prior accident (that caused substantial damage)
it was a prior rental vehicle
a lemon law buy back (the vehicle was repurchased by either manufacturer or dealer under the lemon law because of a defect)
odometer readings not accurate, etc.

They are also prohibited from misrepresenting facts about the vehicle's history (such as its never been in an accident, it was a trade vehicle (when it was a rental), etc.



So on that basis I was told the vehicle had been painted on the door for scratches and took it at that considering I purchased a Trans Am previously at the same dealer. When I got the carfax when I was in the new dealership where I was looking at a new vehicle to purchase it was brought to my attention that it was involved in an major accident where the vehicle was almost totaled. I was offered half of the vehicles value and could not purchase my new vehicle.


That really grinds my gears! So I have decided to go for it and bring them to court! I have all of my original paperwork in hand for when I bought the truck.





If anyone has had an experience like this please feel free to give me a hand on which direction to take.

[NJSPEEDER]

Good luck.

[Knipps]

And what if the dealership didn't know?

[madness410]

And what if the dealership didn't know?

if everyone got off on the defense that they didnt know it was law it would defeat the whole purpose of setting laws in the first place haha...

but im sure if this guy can find out the vehicle was in an accident so can a dealer

[Knipps]

if everyone got off on the defense that they didnt know it was law it would defeat the whole purpose of setting laws in the first place haha...

but im sure if this guy can find out the vehicle was in an accident so can a dealer

Yes, but it takes ~6 months for the accident to show up on the Carfax and that's what he was provided with.

[ta350]

Dealership gave me a verbal that the vehicle was painted on the door for scratch and dent fix.

Also said a carfax was done and was clean.... the accident occured in 2003 and I bought the vehicle in 2007

[ta350]

also I luckily had a friend with me when I bought the truck as a witness

[ShitOnWheels]

Why didn't you look at the original carfax, or acquire your own copy? Why did you take what the dealership told you at face value?

Good luck, but I think you're gonna get reamed since you didnt do your homework before buying the car.

[bandit88]

I wish you luck nick!

[Squirrel]

i agree with G, if they even let the case go thru, youre gonna be fighting an uphill battle

[Tru2Chevy]

Dealership gave me a verbal that the vehicle was painted on the door for scratch and dent fix.

Also said a carfax was done and was clean.... the accident occured in 2003 and I bought the vehicle in 2007

While this does sound like they lied to you, did any of your paperwork from the dealership show any reference to a clean Carfax report? If you don't have proof that they informed you of a clean history, then your case might not even be heard in court, let alone won.

Also, keep in mind that Carfax isn't always accurate. I've heard of all kinds of stories of people owning cars since they were new and having Carfax reports showing that the car was involved in a major accident when it was never hit, etc. Do your research and find the previous owner and ask for details of the accident. Is there any evidence on the vehicle itself that it was involved in a major accident?

- Justin

[maroman88]

Why didn't you look at the original carfax, or acquire your own copy? Why did you take what the dealership told you at face value?

my gf had the same thing happen, she bought her 04 grand cherokee with a "clean carfax" that the dealer kept forgetting to give her... we forgot about it, her dad was bored one day and deceided to get a carfax, yep sure enough it was involved in an accident on the drivers side, explains the f-ed up paint job on the door lol

[procamaroz28]

this should go ur way... by law a dealership must disclose anything that is not common knowledge about their product. that means frame damage, inaccurate mileage or anything that only they would know, unrelated example some one who's selling their house must disclose any info about termites, before a sale is put together by lawyers, same thing but on bigger scale

[sweetbmxrider]

good luck. i would hunt down the owner and try to find an accident report.

[baddest434]

good luck. i hope things go your way man. i hate car dealers!!!

[ta350]

I was shown a "carfax" which I now know was falsified... I will be going next week

[Tru2Chevy]

I was shown a "carfax" which I now know was falsified... I will be going next week

Keep in mind what I said though....you better have more proof than just the new Carfax to show there was an accident....

- Justin

[ta350]

I do, I have original bill of sale with all info, new car fax, and a witness to the original car fax that they never game me stating it was clean and that the sales man gave a verbal (which is binding according to Law) stating the door was only painted because of minor scratch and dent repair.


The whole truck was painted due to several accidents... frame is straight though.

[Squirrel]

I do, I have original bill of sale with all info, new car fax, and a witness to the original car fax that they never game me stating it was clean and that the sales man gave a verbal (which is binding according to Law) stating the door was only painted because of minor scratch and dent repair.


The whole truck was painted due to several accidents... frame is straight though.

The verbal thing is difficult though, because one or two things need to happen:
If there was another person present who will not benefit from backing you up youre good to go... But if there was not, whos to say the salesmen will voluntarily throw himself under the bus?... I think what you should go after is Fraud in the Inducement, as long as:
A. There was false representation
B. Of a fact
C. That is material and
D. Made with knowledge of its falsity and the intention to deceive and
E. Which representation is justifiably relied upon

[jims69camaro]

frame is straight though.

this can be misleading. when you put a car on a frame table, the table has to first be verified to be straight. then it will tell you how far out the "frame" is, and which way to pull it to get it straight. unfortunately, once metal is stressed, as in an accident, it will remember where it was and return to that position with very little provocation. it could be considered more dangerous than a car that had no previous damage. there are certain points on the car that are built to "give way" in an accident, in order to protect the passenger compartment. if any of those spots are stressed and then returned to factory spec, then they are that much weaker and more susceptible to stress in the future.

all of this is just my opinion, you understand. it's all anecdotal, received from people in the auto-repair industry with years of experience, but should in no way be relied upon as fact. do some research and you might find some scientific backup, as in certain establishments performing experiments on stressed metal, etc.

good luck with your suit.

[Stevoone]

I had a similar situation a few years ago. Bought a Certified Dodge that turned out was in an accident before I bought it. I was a little upset when I ran the CarFax. The truck looked and drove perfect so it really didn't bother me too much

Then 3 weeks after I bought the truck an old lady in a Cadillac cut me off. I'm happy with the truck tho. I can tell it was painted but I don't think the average person would be able to tell that it's ever had body work.

[Fast92RS]

Just though you might want to read this article. It seems to be similiar to you situation.

New Jersey Sues Four Sansone Auto Dealers. Sanson Auto Mall on Rte 1, amongst other Sansone dealers, is being sued for not disclosing that used cars it sold had prior damage.


http://www.1010wins.com/pages/3713521.php?contentType=4&contentId=3402972

[Tru2Chevy]

I do, I have original bill of sale with all info, new car fax, and a witness to the original car fax that they never game me stating it was clean and that the sales man gave a verbal (which is binding according to Law) stating the door was only painted because of minor scratch and dent repair.


The whole truck was painted due to several accidents... frame is straight though.

What I mean by what I said was you better have more proof than just a Carfax report to show that the vehicle was in an accident. Otherwise you're walking into court with one allegedly "clean" Carfax that you got when you bought the car, and one Carfex that states the vehicle was wrecked. Which one is true and which one isn't?

You should really find the previous owners and get some actual evidence of the wreck - pictures, repair bills, etc. You'll go far further in the courtroom with that than you will with two conflicting Carfax reports.

- Justin

[Slo86Bird]

that happened with our house. we were told it was all legal and perfect and whatnot...both our rear sheds r illegal so we had to get permits for them...alot of money for permits...and the basement leaked bad during heavy rain and it cost us like 4k in damage, carpet pipes, cieling tiles..bunch of chit. and we sued the people and got like 30k back or something like that.

[ta350]

this can be misleading. when you put a car on a frame table, the table has to first be verified to be straight. then it will tell you how far out the "frame" is, and which way to pull it to get it straight. unfortunately, once metal is stressed, as in an accident, it will remember where it was and return to that position with very little provocation. it could be considered more dangerous than a car that had no previous damage. there are certain points on the car that are built to "give way" in an accident, in order to protect the passenger compartment. if any of those spots are stressed and then returned to factory spec, then they are that much weaker and more susceptible to stress in the future.

all of this is just my opinion, you understand. it's all anecdotal, received from people in the auto-repair industry with years of experience, but should in no way be relied upon as fact. do some research and you might find some scientific backup, as in certain establishments performing experiments on stressed metal, etc.

good luck with your suit.

Frames straight checked it twice on car o liner at work.

Also did depth test mud is on all panels.... I work at a body shop... I bought the truck before I was heavy in work.

[ta350]

I had a similar situation a few years ago. Bought a Certified Dodge that turned out was in an accident before I bought it. I was a little upset when I ran the CarFax. The truck looked and drove perfect so it really didn't bother me too much

Then 3 weeks after I bought the truck an old lady in a Cadillac cut me off. I'm happy with the truck tho. I can tell it was painted but I don't think the average person would be able to tell that it's ever had body work.


Im happy with the truck but when i goto trade it in Im gonna need full value not 1/2. If need be I keep the truck, and do a retro kit (60s front end) or put the SS silverado bed on and do some custom tweaking up front and drop an LQ9 with Front mount turbo kit from Nelson Performance.... but rather have a car lately... cant ride my quad any more becuase of shoulder surgery

[Tru2Chevy]

Also did depth test mud is on all panels.... I work at a body shop... I bought the truck before I was heavy in work.

Ahh, there ya go. Get a statement made up from your shop attesting to this fact....

- Justin

[ta350]

Ahh, there ya go. Get a statement made up from your shop attesting to this fact....

- Justin


:nod:

[ta350]

I WIN!!!!!

THEY BOUGHT MY TRUCK BACK!

NEW CAR COMING SOON. Im not telling what it will be..... gonna be a surprise!

[cdacda13]

Wow, congrats.

[ta350]

thanks i cant wait to get a new car :D lsx

[maroman88]

haha thats freakin awesome man!

[Saitin]

that's awesome congrats

[Tru2Chevy]

Congrats! Did you actually end up in court, or just threaten with a lawsuit?

- Justin

[Knipps]

:w00t: Congrats man!

[r0nin89]

Congrats! Did you actually end up in court, or just threaten with a lawsuit?

- Justin

I'd like to know because my dad presented a similar case about my moms car (we were not told it was a rental and multiple things have broken numerous times) to our lawyer and he said that used cars have no such law.

[ta350]

Congrats! Did you actually end up in court, or just threaten with a lawsuit?

- Justin


I just presented them with the facts and a documented estimate for the repairs needed. (Frame work w/ pictures)

Since it is structural they have to by law disclose at the time of buying the vehicle.

No court room needed.

[ta350]

I'd like to know because my dad presented a similar case about my moms car (we were not told it was a rental and multiple things have broken numerous times) to our lawyer and he said that used cars have no such law.


They do not need to disclose that it was a Fleet vehicle. Theres no law for that. The only law is Structural Damage.

[procamaroz28]

yup told ya

[jims69camaro]

Also did depth test mud is on all panels.

damn, that sucks. there is no reason for there to be mud on all panels. if there was that much damage, they should have replaced the panels. much easier than to use mud to "straighten" a panel. how thick did it show? thicker in some areas than others?

all of this is moot at this point since you won, but for my own edification, i'd like to know if there are still shops out there that will pull a panel to straighten it, then mud it up to finish it. it usually uses more labor than the insurance companies will pay for, that's why more shops will replace the panel. they come out ahead in the long run.

[ta350]

damn, that sucks. there is no reason for there to be mud on all panels. if there was that much damage, they should have replaced the panels. much easier than to use mud to "straighten" a panel. how thick did it show? thicker in some areas than others?

all of this is moot at this point since you won, but for my own edification, i'd like to know if there are still shops out there that will pull a panel to straighten it, then mud it up to finish it. it usually uses more labor than the insurance companies will pay for, that's why more shops will replace the panel. they come out ahead in the long run.


We do all the time at my place of work.... don't wanna mention it since were not a sponsor on the board... unless I'm allowed. But we have 3 racks to pull from and then finish it up with a layer or so of mud or plastic. Then again we do resto work also so we stay reputable and honest.

[Frosty]

damn, that sucks. there is no reason for there to be mud on all panels. if there was that much damage, they should have replaced the panels. much easier than to use mud to "straighten" a panel. how thick did it show? thicker in some areas than others?

all of this is moot at this point since you won, but for my own edification, i'd like to know if there are still shops out there that will pull a panel to straighten it, then mud it up to finish it. it usually uses more labor than the insurance companies will pay for, that's why more shops will replace the panel. they come out ahead in the long run.

It depends on the car, the panel being replaced, the cost of the new part etc. Stupid things like fenders and bumpers...they're replaced all the time. Most body men would rather repair something like a 1/4 panel than replacing it(unless it's destroyed).

Even a small dent requires filler, a shop isn't going to replace a panel because it has 3-4hrs repair time on it.