Wow, GM wasn't kidding when they said they're cutting things....

[Frosty]

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090218/CARNEWS/902189973

Bye bye to some of the models that were actually worth buying from this ass-backwards company.

http://jalopnik.com/5155377/gm-to-officially-kill-saturn-brand-most-of-pontiac

Bye bye Saturn, which we all knew. Pontiac is being reduced just like the rumor said.

[BonzoHansen]

Yeah, I just posted that in the Z28 thread. Maybe those engineers will make the regular cars worth buying.

[madness410]

</3

[miketa95]

Looks like certified pre owned is going to be the way of the future

[BigAls87Z28]

Why, of all the great and powerful performance vehicles, did they pick the HHR SS as the car to put in the picture.
Not that its not a great car...but...****.

This makes me sick to my stomach.

[NJ346]

So wait....the cobalt SS is dead? This is after they finally came out with a really nice turbo car...:roll:

[Jam]

bye bye Saturn you will NOT be missed.

[BonzoHansen]

Why, of all the great and powerful performance vehicles, did they pick the HHR SS as the car to put in the picture.
Not that its not a great car...but...****.

This makes me sick to my stomach.

You better buy a lot of pepto, it's gonna get worse....

[BigAls87Z28]

So wait....the cobalt SS is dead? This is after they finally came out with a really nice turbo car...:roll:

No.
All cars that GMPD already engineers are safe.
Any future cars, such as a Cruze SS, CTC-V, Camaro Z28, hell, an Aveo SS will not move foward. The V, SS, GXP, Redline, Super, whatever models the GMPD have input on, will not expand. So what you see now is what we will get.
All current GMPD cars like the ZR1, Z06, Chevy SS cars, Pontiac GXP cars, and the Caddy V cars are all ok and will continue to be produced.

[91chevywt]

They gotta do what they gotta do, can't say I didn't see it coming. I kinda thought buick would have been gone before saturn though.

I can understand why they would cut the performance division, times are tough and they are barely getting by. If we want a GM in the future were going to have to live without an SS for a while. With all those engineers focused on making the best car, they should be able to blow the foreign competition out of the water...then it becomes play time again. I can't imagine with things heading the way they are (it's going to get worse) it would be hard to sell a performance oriented car...unless it was very affordable.

[CamaroJoe1987]

****in dumb****s, they are taking away the cars that ppl would actually buy, they are ****in up, im a chevy guy through and through, but they keep diggin themselves deeper

[camaroAL]

assbackwards says it all!!

[Tsar]

****in dumb****s, they are taking away the cars that ppl would actually buy, they are ****in up, im a chevy guy through and through, but they keep diggin themselves deeper

Um..no most people buy the base model with some options, not top of the line car that costs twice as much.

Thanks for playing, try again.

[Frosty]

bye bye Saturn you will NOT be missed.

:confused: The newer Saturns are damn good cars.

[Knipps]

First the ST, now the HHR, and Saturn. ****.

[Frosty]

The ST is worth getting mad about? What an impractical waste of engineering time and space. :rofl:

[Mike]

They gotta do what they gotta do, can't say I didn't see it coming. I kinda thought buick would have been gone before saturn though.

buick sells well in foreign markets

[BigAls87Z28]

First the ST, now the HHR, and Saturn. ****.

Uhh...the HHR isnt dead. Well, not from this anyway. It will probably be replaced by the Orlando.

There is a possibility that performance models will continue, just done in house. The guys and gals of GMPD have now been sent to work for each division, so they could help improve the overall performance of the average car, instead of making a special version of a car.

[69BirdX]

Gm manengment fault this went this way, if they werent so busy filling there pockets and started looking torwards the future then we would have some decent cars. They deserve to go bankrupt. Just unfair to us. Read this awsome article. Its is so true.
http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/files/backissues/TMW-0209.pdf


If you cant get that to work just google Greg Knox Letter

[BigAls87Z28]

Gm manengment fault this went this way, if they werent so busy filling there pockets and started looking torwards the future then we would have some decent cars. They deserve to go bankrupt. Just unfair to us. Read this awsome article. Its is so true.
http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/files/backissues/TMW-0209.pdf


If you cant get that to work just google Greg Knox Letter


Incorrect, GM currently makes excellent cars. Thats the irony, now that GM makes and are making cars that people want, they are losing money left and right.
When they made the Cavi for 20 years without a major revision, V6's with head and intake gaskets that blew left and right, poor quality control and lack of performance, they were rolling in cash. Even thier trucks were garbage.
No one is lining thier pockets and running out with tons of cash. In fact, the current management is probably the best we have had in decades.
Problem is that we still have tons of red tape middle managmenet that slows down and dumbs down GM's cars.
Its all very very sad. Finally we have what we want, and now no one wants it.

[LS1Hawk]

Any future cars, such as a Cruze SS, CTC-V, Camaro Z28, hell, an Aveo SS will not move foward.

I call that a blessing in disguise.

[Knipps]

The ST is worth getting mad about? What an impractical waste of engineering time and space. :rofl:
I'd agree IF we actually spent the time designing it. All it was going to take was a switch from LHD to RHD. Where it is, it's practical.

You act like a ton of R&D was going into it for it to be allowed on the roads

[Frosty]

Knipps, what I mean was it was basically an updated El Camino. It would've sold about as well as the Aztek lol. I remember posting something similar to that on LS1tech and people told me I'm nuts....then again only 3 people said they'd buy one :lol:

[BlueGTS]

So they are planning for the future and they want to kill Saturn and keep Buick. :rofl: That is priceless. No one under the age of 50 buys a Buick so that is a marquee that is going to die on its own. Younger buyers are what create brand loyalty when they grow up and make more money. Just ask Honda with the Civic. Saturn has a younger following which sounds more future proof to me… :nod:

[Tsar]

So they are planning for the future and they want to kill Saturn and keep Buick. :rofl: That is priceless. No one under the age of 50 buys a Buick so that is a marquee that is going to die on its own. Younger buyers are what create brand loyalty when they grow up and make more money. Just ask Honda with the Civic. Saturn has a younger following which sounds more future proof to me… :nod:
As stated before Buick sells in other countries. I believe its the number 1 brand in China. How about Saturn, what about their global presence?

[WildBillyT]

As stated before Buick sells in other countries. I believe its the number 1 brand in China. How about Saturn, what about their global presence?

Yep, Buick sells great in China.

[LS1Hawk]

So they are planning for the future and they want to kill Saturn and keep Buick. :rofl: That is priceless. No one under the age of 50 buys a Buick so that is a marquee that is going to die on its own. Younger buyers are what create brand loyalty when they grow up and make more money. Just ask Honda with the Civic. Saturn has a younger following which sounds more future proof to me… :nod:

I don't know, my gf is 25 and she's absolutely in love with the Enclave. And when I was at the auto show I saw a lot of people of all ages checking out the 2010 LaCrosse. I think the new Buicks have much larger demographic appeal than previous models.

[BlueGTS]

As stated before Buick sells in other countries. I believe its the number 1 brand in China. How about Saturn, what about their global presence?

If you actually look at the "Buicks" that are sold in China they are almost all re-badged cars from other GM companies. I can see why that is because Buick does not make many cars rational people would want. It must be cheaper to keep on a badge engineering staff versus the Saturn staff who actually make cars from the ground up.

Saturn sales in 2008 have taken a big beating but I remember when Saturn started and it really was a different company. They actually made quality cars that were unlike others in the GM lineup. I think those days are gone.

[WildBillyT]

If you actually look at the "Buicks" that are sold in China they are almost all re-badged cars from other GM companies. I can see why that is because Buick does not make many cars rational people would want. It must be cheaper to keep on a badge engineering staff versus the Saturn staff who actually make cars from the ground up.

Saturn sales in 2008 have taken a big beating but I remember when Saturn started and it really was a different company. They actually made quality cars that were unlike others in the GM lineup. I think those days are gone.

Back in the 50's or around that time the first cars imported into China were big Buicks. The people from that era remember the chrome, etc and see a Buick as a status symbol. Much like how we view Mercedes-Benz cars. To us they are luxury cars- in Germany they are taxi cabs.

[BlueGTS]

I don't know, my gf is 25 and she's absolutely in love with the Enclave. And when I was at the auto show I saw a lot of people of all ages checking out the 2010 LaCrosse. I think the new Buicks have much larger demographic appeal than previous models.

If for some reason she can't get an Enclave she could grab an Arcadia, or a Traverse or if she shops quickly an Outlook. Lost of badge engineering going on. I can't get behind port holes on a crossover. :lol:

[Mike]

did you just say the original saturns were high quality?

[alamantia]

Will my mint 2002 Z28 be worth more if no one will be able to buy a preformance car from GM

[BlueGTS]

did you just say the original saturns were high quality?

Oh yes I did. :nod: I would put the reliability of a first gen Saturn up against any American car of that era at even twice its cost. They really were over engineered and built well. I drove one for a while and while it had no power and was no fun to drive it was reliable.

[Frosty]

New Saturns>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>old Saturns in terms of quality.

[LS1Hawk]

I drove one for a while and while it had no power and was no fun to drive it was reliable.

I guess that explains the dent-resistant doors...can't avoid an accident so might as well try to help it from getting banged up :lol:

[r0nin89]

Damn it a 5.3 Colorado woulda been f'ing sick.

And wait the z28 got the axe????

[BonzoHansen]

Damn it a 5.3 Colorado woulda been f'ing sick.

And wait the z28 got the axe????

You can't axe what never existed.

[BurninrubberGT]

what happens to the gxp series? doesnt say anything about them
im buying a used g8 when i get out of college, then down the road a trans am as a weekend/dream car...so im set lol, but i honestly hate gm and the idiots that run it for ****ing pontiac

you poll a 1000 americans, 900 would say they would buy a pontiac over a buick

[BonzoHansen]

what happens to the gxp series? doesnt say anything about them
im buying a used g8 when i get out of college, then down the road a trans am as a weekend/dream car...so im set lol, but i honestly hate gm and the idiots that run it for ****ing pontiac

you poll a 1000 americans, 900 would say they would buy a pontiac over a buick

Too bad those polled don't vote with their pocketbooks. If they did Pontiacs would be selling.

[WildBillyT]

Too bad those polled don't vote with their pocketbooks. If they did Pontiacs would be selling.

Exactly.

Online conversation:

Post 1: I WANT I WANT I WANT THAT CAR IS ****ING AWESOME I'D BUY ONE IN A HEARTBEAT

Post 2: Me too! Drool

and so on.


At the dealer:

*crickets*

[Frosty]

you poll a 1000 americans, 900 would say they would buy a pontiac over a buick

Yup, but the problem is they weren't asked if they'd buy a Toyota or Hon-duh over GM :lol:

[BigAls87Z28]

Will my mint 2002 Z28 be worth more if no one will be able to buy a preformance car from GM

There will continue to be performance cars made by GM. There just wont be any made be GM's Performance Division.

Damn it a 5.3 Colorado woulda been f'ing sick.

And wait the z28 got the axe????

You can get a 5.3 Colorado now. Its not a performance truck, only available in crew cab, but its very powerful for a light little truck.
Z28 is dead.

what happens to the gxp series? doesnt say anything about them
im buying a used g8 when i get out of college, then down the road a trans am as a weekend/dream car...so im set lol, but i honestly hate gm and the idiots that run it for ****ing pontiac

you poll a 1000 americans, 900 would say they would buy a pontiac over a buick

Pontiac will become a small niche brand. Pontiac will continue on with whatever they have currently untill they have nothing left.

Depends on what the car is. Would I pick a G6 over a new Buick LaX? Hells no. Would I pick Solstice over a Lucerne? Yes.


Too bad those polled don't vote with their pocketbooks. If they did Pontiacs would be selling.

Pontiacs outsell Buick. Pontiac is the #2 selling brand in GM. Question is, why is GM making the #2 brand a small niche brand.

Yup, but the problem is they weren't asked if they'd buy a Toyota or Hon-duh over GM :lol:


GM is still #1 in America, so more people by GM then anything else.

Buick, if done correctly, should really captivate a lot of people. The Insigna/Regal and the LaX, along with the Encalve can make Buick a very appealing brand.
Give it the Sky as a sporty roadster, and you have a sweet line up.

[BonzoHansen]

Pontiac sales are bolstered by rental and fleet cars.

So, page 68 makes no mention of V8...discuss.

http://treas.gov/initiatives/eesa/agreements/auto-reports/GMRestructuringPlan.pdf

[BigAls87Z28]

Pontiac sales are bolstered by rental and fleet cars.

So, page 68 makes no mention of V8...discuss.

http://treas.gov/initiatives/eesa/agreements/auto-reports/GMRestructuringPlan.pdf

Uh...its a small slide that makes mention of the Camaro with teh best fuel economy.
No **** it doesnt say V8 because the V8 wont get the best gas milage.

The sky is not falling...they are going to make a V8 Camaro.

There is no mention of the Equionox's 3.0 DI V6, there is no mention of the SRX's turbo 2.8 making 300hp. There is no mention of the LaX's 280hp 3.6 DI V6. In fact, the 2.4/6spd was not part of the press release and Im not sure that we will even see that combo.

[BonzoHansen]

Just saw this, whew...

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2009/02/gm-shuts-down-high-performance-vehicle-operations.html

DETROIT — General Motors may have scrapped its High Performance Vehicle Operations unit as part of a broader cost-saving program, but it hustled to reassure Inside Line on Thursday that some of the company's crown jewels are "safe."

When asked if the demise of HPVO meant the end of the road for such vehicles as the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, company spokesman Vince Muniga said: "No. You've got the Camaro SS coming out. It is not threatened at all."

"Camaro SS, Corvette ZR1 and Corvette Z06 are all regularly engineered cars," Muniga explained. "They did not go through HPVO. Most people did not realize that. They are safe."

[BigAls87Z28]

Exactly. Camaro and Corvette are designed to be performance cars.
Cars like the Cobalt and Cruze are NOT designed to be performance cars.
HHR is not designed to be a performance car.

[69BirdX]

I never said they made bad cars just not on the direction they need to be in.I have always said Gms line up is just as good as any Foreign make. Im all for American cars. This economic depression could of been seen from a decade ago. If the goverment kept up with CAFE standards we should be over the average of 40mpg. Gm mangnement is hurting thats why they fly private jets to cry. Idiots played bad busisness, should us the tax payers pay for their mistakes. When people are getting paid full salaries until the day they die for not working They should realize they are gonna go under. You can have that and then having union babies cry they need to get paid more for doing nothing.

[HeadlessNorseman]

i would buy a 5.3 colorado just on principal. Thats awesome lol. The full size trucks with that motor already go pretty good. And they take well to head and cam upgrades

[Tsar]

This economic depression could of been seen from a decade ago. Oh so you saw Bear Sterns, Lehman's brother's and Merrill Lynch failing in 1996? I think we should all learn from you, maybe you have some investment advice for people who do not see a decade in advance? Come on help us out here, almighty!

[band77one]

No one under the age of 50 buys a Buick so that is a marquee that is going to die on its own.:nod:


gangstas love them some buicks.

[band77one]

"Camaro SS, Corvette ZR1 and Corvette Z06 are all regularly engineered cars," Muniga explained. "They did not go through HPVO. Most people did not realize that. They are safe."

now if the camaro is regularly engineered, it may be safe to say the z28 may come back, just not as the top of the line camaro. just a guess.

[Frosty]

GM is still #1 in America, so more people by GM then anything else.


That wasn't my point. ;) Just because someone says they'd buy a Pontiac over a Buick doesn't mean they're going buy the Pontiac. ;)

[BonzoHansen]

GM is still #1 in America, so more people by GM then anything else. Don't write that in stone, that will probably be incorrect soon. GM is even losing "buy American" sales to Ford. Toyota will be #1 in the US this year.

[BigAls87Z28]

Gm has about 21% market state in the us to Toyotas teens

[Tsar]

Gm has about 21% market state in the us to Toyotas teens
13 or 19? :lol:

[BonzoHansen]

You hold onto hope, Al. Hold on.

[BurninrubberGT]

Too bad those polled don't vote with their pocketbooks. If they did Pontiacs would be selling.

true


autoweek talked about it in their review on the g8 gxp, it just came out during the worst time with the economy....if the econmy was good, pontiac wouldnt be in this discussion