Biggest displacement

[LTb1ow]

Just a random question about SBCs. How big can you make em displacement wise before you run out of room external dimension wise?

This is going down the road of a custom block being made.

[NJ Torque]

I think i've seen some 500+ ci aftermarket blocks...

434 on a stock block...

[LTb1ow]

Hmm...

[NJSPEEDER]

I have seen people take stock 400 blocks to 440+ with a lot of machine work. It is very very limited use and costs a ton.

[LTb1ow]

Well thats the question, if Dart were to make a 454+ LT1 block.... ;)

Is the straight up 454 cheaper than making a stock block a 402. Biggest I think you can go stock and thats with sleeving.

[NJSPEEDER]

I would think the machine work to properly prep a stock block wouldn't be much different than the cost of buying and prepping another block. Most of the cost would be in the bottom end. Only real difference I can see is that the Dart casting would be better than the stocker.

[LTb1ow]

No I mean like Dart casting a 454 LT1 block. So all you do is slap in a rotating assembly.

[NJ Torque]

454 ci LT1... seems like an epic fail coming on.

don't you have a stock rear still?

[LTb1ow]

LOL, yea and no where near the amount of money that block may be IF it ever comes out...


But its is a much better, and safer way of getting to say a 396 or 402 on a GenII block than machining it. And yea, 454, or higher will require some high dollar heads to actually make decent power. Just curious really.

[Tru2Chevy]

No I mean like Dart casting a 454 LT1 block. So all you do is slap in a rotating assembly.

Aftermarket blocks still need prep at a machine shop before assembly begins, just not as much as a used stock block. So make sure you think about those costs as well.

- Justin

[LTb1ow]

LOL you guys are neglecting the fact that I am a poor college kid, I was just thinking hypothetically.

And the work required to prep a 454 LT1 compared to making a 396/402 from a stocker would be minimal.

[ar0ck]

LOL you guys are neglecting the fact that I am a poor college kid, I was just thinking hypothetically.

And the work required to prep a 454 LT1 compared to making a 396/402 from a stocker would be minimal.

There used to be another member on here who used to think like this... he didn't last very long.

[Tru2Chevy]

Alex....at least SNM is smart enough to realize he's a broke college kid and he's not saying that this build is gonna start next month.

- Justin

[Savage_Messiah]

careful man! dont set your car on fire!

[camaroAL]

they make a 454 pre-lt1 block, but its more of a show car engine. u cant bore it, cant boost it and nos is a no no. it makes 600hp, but doesnt last long. if u want a really big cube small block u need to go with a block such as a rocket block, which is a tall deck with a raised cam tunnel. these blocks can go to around 468 cu. in. not cheap at all

[WildBillyT]

Rick WI over at NastyZ has been running a Gen I 454 SBC for a while now. I think it's 700-800hp.

[camaroAL]

in crate engine form they make 600hp, with a cam and some mods u can make more power but good luck with the re-build, there is no way to bore it and the amount of honing u can do is minimal. not a good block for someone who is going to put any type of millage or abuse on it.

[LTb1ow]

Yea and I don't want a BBC in my car. I like my somewhat decent mileage.

I had just heard that Dart had been thinking of casting a large +454 block for the LT1. Now whether its worth the money, I doubt it, its cheaper/easier to go big cubed LSX, but gotta keep the faith. ;)

[BonzoHansen]

Seriously? You are using big displacement anything and mileage in the same sentence? Really? A 454 SB and a 454 BB are going to be generally equally thirsty, give or take the 100+ pound weight difference.

[LTb1ow]

Yea but "if" Dart decided to market this idea and "if" I came up with the money, I would get a smaller block, prob a 409 just to say its a 409. And I thought BBC were lower CR than similar SBC, idk.

[WildBillyT]

Yea but "if" Dart decided to market this idea and "if" I came up with the money, I would get a smaller block, prob a 409 just to say its a 409. And I thought BBC were lower CR than similar SBC, idk.

With a BBC you get better flowing heads. You can build either to whatever compression ratio you need.

[LTb1ow]

Yup, which is why Dart may have a hard time marketing it, LT1 heads just don't enough without a very expensive port job and even then most people convert to SBC heads. But, the idea of a pre cast 396 would be really nice I think.

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

Alex....at least SNM is smart enough to realize he's a broke college kid and he's not saying that this build is gonna start next month.

- Justin

Owned :popcorn:

[LTb1ow]

Apparently Dart has accepted a few stock blocks for dimensions and what not, so it may actually happen. Would be cool.

And um what? ^

[Pampered-Z]

There are no aftermarket LT1 blocks. We tried a few years ago about getting a company to build them, but we couldn't get enough commitment to make it worth doing at a reasonable cost. Unless something has changed that they will build the blocks cheap?

A stock block you can push a LT1 to just over 400 CI but I think it needs to be resleeved. most common is to go 396CI and often people hit the water jackets. Also at this point you better have a good block to start with, you taking allot of material out so you run the chance of starting to twist the block. The few guys running in the 8's with LT1 blocks are pulling the bolttom ends apart often as the twisting is causing the caps to walk. You're looking big money to build one right. A certain "unstable" person has a custom girdle for his 396 LT1.

There is said to be a few "special" LT1 blocks out there floating around that GM had custom cast for some project that was dropped and the blocks made it into the public. They were cast with ( I think ) high carbon, thicker webbing, and with 4.25 bores for 454CI LT1s. They only show up rarely and the bare blocks go for very large dollars. The last one I saw went in the $6,000 range.

as already said, LT1 heads also fall a bit short on their flow numbers. if you know of N2ODave, he runs a set of Rich Petty's heads on his 396 LT1, and the cost to convert then to the LT1 block has no cheap process. But he does have a high winding LT!

If you're thinking 900+ HP, there are cheaper and better ways to go that messing wioth an LT1.

I love my little LT1, but if I ever decide to go for the 4 digit HP numbers that first think I'll do is pull the LT1!

[LTb1ow]

Yea, there has been a few threads across the interwebz about this, apparently Dart has been giving it some serious thought,whether anything will come of it, I don't know. Nevertheless, it would be nice to have a pre cast 396 and save myself the headache of machine work.

However, as you pointed out, to run fast with an LT1 most convert heads over and once you do that theres really no need to stay with the GenII block. I would think Dart would have better luck marketing a nice 355/383/396 line since most ported LT1/LT4 heads would flow enough to make them work well. Also prob have a bigger customer base of guys like me who don't want to deal with machine work etc.

And four digits are easy, forged 383, Ysi and some juice. Simple ;)

[sweetbmxrider]

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-modifications/1094695-gauging-interest-big-cid-lt1-block.html

yeahhh

[LTb1ow]

Yup, not a member or fan of that site but yea, Jake posted that up pretty much on every LT1 site, seems to have a lot of fans. But as always, lots of people want em, few will pay for em.

If Dart can make a 383 cast block that is competitively priced compared to making one out of a stock block, a lot of people would be interested.

[sweetbmxrider]

yeah definitely.

[LTb1ow]

And if they can make it out of aluminum.... ohhh mannn.... :)


LSwHat!

[sweetbmxrider]

hahahahah dude you are thinking outside the boat anchor. cut it out!!

[WildBillyT]

But as always, lots of people want em, few will pay for em.


Sounds like the fund raisers on here.

Oh no he di-in't.

[LTb1ow]

Hey now, I pay to play!

[LTb1ow]

Kinda an update, I don't know if you guys are familar with a guy with the sn of Jpack?, but he apparently dropped off a few stock parts and a block for Dart to begin measurements... hope for the LT1 perhaps...

[WildBillyT]

Kinda an update, I don't know if you guys are familar with a guy with the sn of Jpack?, but he apparently dropped off a few stock parts and a block for Dart to begin measurements... hope for the LT1 perhaps...

Don't hold your breath. I would be surprised if there is enough demand for an aftermarket LT1 block.

[LTb1ow]

Don't hold your breath. I would be surprised if there is enough demand for an aftermarket LT1 block.

Well they gotta be thinking there is if they are considering it. And as stated above I am a broke college kid with big dreams of grandeur, so I haven't been holding my breath at all. :lol:

[WildBillyT]

Well they gotta be thinking there is if they are considering it. And as stated above I am a broke college kid with big dreams of grandeur, so I haven't been holding my breath at all. :lol:

Yeah, the problem is that not too many were made, and people usually go Gen I or Gen III and skip the bastard child.

[LTb1ow]

Well I know Jegs just started to advertise a LT1 shortblock, dunno why they picked now but they do. And yea, well, I have money invested into my "bastard child" so I will stick with it.

[TBSPW]

that freakish block from gm does exist...ive seen one, not in person but over on camaroz28.com, i believe it was a 454 but i could be wrong but i think the selling price was almost 12 grand.

[LTb1ow]

Yea, the stock GM one, from some high perf. engineers pet project, they pop up on ebay every once and a while.

[LTb1ow]

Woot.

On this block---here is the vision I have of where it'll settle in----
It will be a version of the Dart SHP SBC block, 4.125 bore
The front of the block will be where all the changes from the Gen 1 SHP block are to allow reverse cooling, LT water pump, Opti, engine accessories---Not go jumping on the bad points or short comings of the opti, as that argument won't make a grain of salt in this project because the guys who want an OEM look to there cars will run the stock water pump and opti---And the racers can install crank trigger and manifold mounted distributor, and even run a electric water pump--again, those that object, go your own way -------

My plan for a 2 piece rear seal is to allow a crank that is more easily balanced internally---so you must buy a flex plate/flywheel with a bigger bolt circle----

All oem accessories and mounts will fit the engine----

Exhaust system won't have to be changed

Any LT head /manifold will fit-----those of you that say the chambers are a problem don't know what your talking about---there is no differance between the Gen 1 and LT and the 4.125 bore will unshroud the valves and increase flow rates

Same camshafts/valve train/roller lifters

I see this as an ideal 427 cubes as with a stock cam location and a 3.875 stroke to gain clearance at the cam and piston deck thickness

Gaskets are already available for 4.200 bore from fel-pro

Wholesale selling price similar to SHP around $15-1750, maybe less (or more)

The SHP is cast in such a way that Dart saves quite a BIT IN MACHINING COSTS, hence the lower price

Slayed 4 bolt caps on 2,3,4 mains

GM does not support or service the LT block now, so anyone needing an engine block has no choice but junk yard---

If you want to race an unlimited type deal, get a Donovan,etc---this is planned to have a replacement block for the LTs that will go to a 4.200 bore and take a 4 in stroke----

If you want to run some kind of race where you are limited to a STOCK block of ANY kind, I feel sorry for you.

If you love your car with an LT, here's an oppurtunity to step up with some new parts, a higher level of power and still look right under the hood.

Jerry Clayton

[enRo]

454 ci LT1... seems like an epic fail coming on.

:lol: A 454 LT1 would completely piss itself. End Result? New Opti.

Dum duh dum, tsssss :doh:

[sweetbmxrider]

thats awesome matt! when are you getting yours? :lol:

[LTb1ow]

If they stay around that price and make something like a 396/402 maybe the end of the summer..... :) But again that depends on Dart pulling though and me making some dinero.

[V]

Woot.

The SHP is cast in such a way that Dart saves quite a BIT IN MACHINING COSTS, hence the lower price

Slayed 4 bolt caps on 2,3,4 mains

Jerry Clayton



nice, i like my main caps dead

[WildBillyT]

Always good news when new parts come out. A 400+ cube LT1 would be cool. Especially if they offer it in aluminum.

[LTb1ow]

Yup, my thoughts exactly. One step towards greatness. :)

We shall see, I am curious to see what they come out with.

[Pampered-Z]

If they pull this off it's going to be a very big deal, the iron LSx block goes for over $2,000. The casting will be stroger then the Gm stockers so the issue of flex for big HP will be almost eliminated. Plus once these blocks get out on the market other vendors will most likely start producing more supporting parts. I've love to see Canfield start making LT1 heads again or AFRs go even larger.

hummm,, Gonna have to start thinking about notching the frame rail so that a F2R blower can be installed to feed a 427 LT1!

[LTb1ow]

Send it in and have it made into a Ysi. You know you wanna. ;)


But yea, I really hope they make up in a few displacements, cause I don't wanna drop a few grand on heads to fead a 427....

[unstable bob gable]

In my travels through LT1 land, larger than 400 CI I've run across 409 LT1s [4.030 X 4.000], 415 LT1s [4.060 X 4.00], and 421 LT1s [4.030 X 4.125 and 4.090 X 4.000]. I've also heard stories of bigger yet with resleeved blocks, etc. Trust me, I have a TON of $$$$$ invested in my Dominion headed LT1, and I'm staying at 396 cubes. [4.030 X 3.875]. Well, maybe a wee bit bigger than 396, but not a "dreamer" 421 or such. :)

[LTb1ow]

Yea, but if some company decides to make a casting of a LT1 427, no sleeving horror stories!

Woot!

[unstable bob gable]

Yea, but if some company decides to make a casting of a LT1 427, no sleeving horror stories!

Woot!


I would def consider using an aftermarket LT1 spec block for my project.

[LTb1ow]

I would def consider using an aftermarket LT1 spec block for my project.

Pics? :mrgreen:

[LTb1ow]

Annnnnnnnnnnd Go go go!
http://www.dartheads.com/dartboard/showthread.php?p=4618#post4618


:)

[Ian]

dont know who it was, but someone made a 472 ci small block.

[Pampered-Z]

I would def consider using an aftermarket LT1 spec block for my project.

Same here Bob, I could use my current crank and rods, just go with a 4.25 bore and have 427 CIs.

[LTb1ow]

Time to start saving!
http://www.dartheads.com/news_article_view.php?nak=69

[sweetbmxrider]

damn thats sweet. looks like it will be pretty affordable too. probably around $1500

[LTb1ow]

Yup, thats what their other blocks go for around.