What tires for stock 10 bolt?

[vipergtx500]

I'm looking to go to the track this summer and I wanted to pick up a set of DR's but I've been hearing too many horror stories about people blowing their stock 10 bolts. All my mods are in my sig, just little bolt-ons so I'm not producing much more hp than stock. I've heard a quick mod is to weld the axle tubes to the center case but that will only help a little. Right now I have hankook all seasons on, I'm not sure what to do at this point in terms of reinforcing the 10 bolt or just not getting DR's. Any suggestions for my current setup?

[Mike]

i broke 2 on stock tires the car rolled off the showroom floor with, and people have many runs on drag radials........there is no right answer

[LTb1ow]

You could also look into the TA covers for the diff. Should help a bit.

But IMO its a waste of money, its going to break, so save money for a 12 bolt etc instead of wasting money on something bound to fail.

[NJ Torque]

I've run 315 street tires and MT ET streets... making more power then most on a ten bolt...

[vipergtx500]

sounds like its a toss up, i think i'm just gonna get the axle tubes welded for now, maybe some 555r's or good summer tires so its not too hard on it and pray it lasts a couple runs for this summer

[Mike]

sounds like its a toss up, i think i'm just gonna get the axle tubes welded for now, maybe some 555r's or good summer tires so its not too hard on it and pray it lasts a couple runs for this summer

its not the axle tubes, the housing itself flexes

[LTb1ow]

Some random stuff if you decide to make a project out of it.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa253/speedyhawk101/theory.jpg

The flex Mike was talking about.

And here ya go.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa253/speedyhawk101/DSCN2052.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa253/speedyhawk101/DSCN2048.jpg

Not that expensive if you know how to weld.

[alamantia]

That drawing is stupid. The control arms are by the wheels.

[Mike]

yeah.....the solid length of metal that is the tq arm and control arms will keep it from getting as exaggerated as that picture.

[LTb1ow]

Yes, and the force from the wheels will push the inner parts backwards since the ends are secured as you pointed out, by the control arms. So the weak part is the center and the gears separate and then shred each other.

[Mike]

the tq arm supports the center...i can see vertical flex more than front to back

[LTb1ow]

The torque arm does not prevent the whole center section from flexing backwards does it?

[Mike]

the only amout it would allow it to move would be the play in the bushing at the front, its bolted to the rear so you cant really stretch the steel

[sweetbmxrider]

thats what i was thinking mike. even still, i think the mount would flex before the rear

[vipergtx500]

so the welding is not really necessary is what your saying? and which diff cover is that in the pics? i can't read it

[Mike]

welding wont solve the problem

[LTb1ow]

Run stock 2.73s and ****** tires, problem solved.

[Tru2Chevy]

the only amout it would allow it to move would be the play in the bushing at the front, its bolted to the rear so you cant really stretch the steel

The stock torque arm can slide in the bushing in the front, there are no bolts holding it in place. An aftermarket torque arm that is bolted in at both ends will negate this effect, but a stock arm will easily slide forward or backwards in that bushing with a good amount of force acting on it.

- Justin

[racerz]

D.O.T. slicks reinforced rear cover. Ran street class for 6 years with that set-up. 26.0x9x15 size on the slicks. more sidewall will help take the hit at the throttle and cushion the launch. not sayin its gospel but just throwing out a suggestion, before all u jerk-offs start sayin ****.

[DevilDougWS6]

who you calling a jerk off? i didnt know everyone on this site were such.

anyway, some people get luckier than others. the more shock you run through your drivetrain, the more likely its going to break. I know people that ran 4.10s with the stronger cover on mickey thompson DRs, and it held together for a year of persistent track days. I also know of people that break them with daily driving.

[Little G]

Switch to a V6. Low torque and no chance of breaking things!

g

[alamantia]

There is a force that is exerted by the tires which is absorbed and applied to the lower control arms right next to the tire. Thus, no force is exerted on the carrier. If you are thinking that the point in where the lower control arm shackel is affixed to the axle tube is acting as a fulcrum point and that the forward force of the tire is causing the axle to act as a lever pushing the splined end of the axle to the opposite direction, this would be possible of the lower control arms were in the middle of the axle tubes acting like a see-saw. This is not true because the lower control arms are mounted within close proximity of the axle bearing. The torque arm slides freely in the bushing affixed to tranmission allowing the torque arm to slide in and out as the rear suspension goes up and down.

[LTb1ow]

I do not agree, no matter how short the distance is off the fulcrum, if a force is applied, an opposite force will occur. Now whether that force is much, is debatable, however, its there.

[alamantia]

It all depends on where the axle bearings are located in proximity of the LCA's, if they are equal there will be no force... 0

I believe the are offset by an inch or two but would not warrent mucg force at all, certinly not worthy of all that welding and trouble

heres a simple calculator

http://www.engineersedge.com/calculators/levers/page_levers_1.htm

[LTb1ow]

Yea but since it is not a solid shaft connecting the two wheels, it will flex at the joint, no way around that.

[alamantia]

no force, no flex

[LTb1ow]

The only way there is no force is if the car is floating in no gravity. Even sitting still there is still a force on the rear end.

How can there be no force? That makes no sense.

[alamantia]

rotational force is applied to axles thru the carrier. That doesnt push the carrier back, it just rotates the axles.

The force of the tires pushing the car forward is exerted on the axle bearings which are in line with the lower control arms. If the axle bearings are in line with the lower control arms that is the point of fulcrum. As indicated in that link. by "X" as zero there is no thrust pushing the carrier back.

Think of the LCA location in relitivity to the axle bearing as the piviot point of a see-saw. If the LCA is exactly 1/2 the distance between the carrier and the axle bearing an even load would be dispursed between the axle bearing thrusting forward and the carrier going backwards. If you were 300lbs sitting on one side of the see-saw and someone was only 100 lbs sitting on the other side, that person would always be in the air because 300 lbs is evenly exerted on the other side of the fulcrom point because its directly in the middle. Now picture a see-saw with the fulcrom point directly under the 300 lbs person, there would be no way you could get that 100lbs person in the air, all the force exerted by the 300 person would be directly upon the fulcrom point thus not exerting any force at the other end of the sea saw there would be no way you could get a 30 lbs person in the air.

The location of the LCA's determins which entities force is applied to and what percentage.

[LTb1ow]

Well I am just saying that assuming the LCA mount and bearing are close proximity to each other, together they will be the fulcrum and the entire axle tube will flex from the force from the tire. So the axle tube/axle will have an opposite force against the carrier in the center. And even if you discredit that force, the rotational force will distort the axles to an extent too.

Edit: I am not arguing with you, just fyi. I am curious about this.

[Formulalt1]

The axles would bend/snap before being able to push the differential away from the pinion gear like that. I am sure there is some movement but its the stress of the teeth intersecting on such a small surface with more pressure than they where meant to take that kills them. I went threw two 7.5's before I decided to switch to a custom 8.5 but there are alot of ways to make it stronger but it will eventually give way, the ring gear is just too small for the power these cars made stock let alone when you start modding.

[vipergtx500]

rotational force is applied to axles thru the carrier. That doesnt push the carrier back, it just rotates the axles.

The force of the tires pushing the car forward is exerted on the axle bearings which are in line with the lower control arms. If the axle bearings are in line with the lower control arms that is the point of fulcrum. As indicated in that link. by "X" as zero there is no thrust pushing the carrier back.

Think of the LCA location in relitivity to the axle bearing as the piviot point of a see-saw. If the LCA is exactly 1/2 the distance between the carrier and the axle bearing an even load would be dispursed between the axle bearing thrusting forward and the carrier going backwards. If you were 300lbs sitting on one side of the see-saw and someone was only 100 lbs sitting on the other side, that person would always be in the air because 300 lbs is evenly exerted on the other side of the fulcrom point because its directly in the middle. Now picture a see-saw with the fulcrom point directly under the 300 lbs person, there would be no way you could get that 100lbs person in the air, all the force exerted by the 300 person would be directly upon the fulcrom point thus not exerting any force at the other end of the sea saw there would be no way you could get a 30 lbs person in the air.

The location of the LCA's determins which entities force is applied to and what percentage.

I agree with this completely it makes sense physics wise, so what would be the easiest thing to do to reinforce my 10 bolt, i only wanna go to the track a few times so im not gonna be putting an extensive amount of force on it this summer.

[racerz]

15 inch wheel 30x9 good luck

[98tadriver]

You could also look into the TA covers for the diff. Should help a bit.

But IMO its a waste of money, its going to break, so save money for a 12 bolt etc instead of wasting money on something bound to fail.

have you ever used a TA cover?

ive used the t/a cover on my 10bolts and it makes them last pretty darn long.

ive broken one 10 bolt rear on street tires when it didnt have a TA cover, the other time i broke teeth off of the ring and pinion. ive had TA covers on 3 different rears, one i wound up selling to a friend and it still worked fine. one on the t/a which had many passes on slicks and drag radials, dumping the clutch at 6k and now the cover is on my camaro's 10bolt and ive had about 10 passes on drag radials so far, the majority being 5k-6k clutch dumps

to the OP- go on LS1tech and get yourself a TA cover for 100bucks and go have some fun.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mM66dfTeX8 6k launch on DRs in the z28
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/98tadriver-at-ATCO-NJ_195982.htm 5-6k clutch dumps on slicks in the t/a. i had more passes than that, just not on video

[vipergtx500]

thanx ron im gonna definately look into that now

[NJ346]

thanx ron im gonna definately look into that now

I wouldn't go to the track without one. I didn't have one on my rear and once I broke it, it only took 5 more passes after it was put back together for it to break again.

[sweetbmxrider]

have you ever used a TA cover?

he does have one, yes.

[LTb1ow]

I haz what?

huh

[98tadriver]

u haz a 14 second H/C LT1 lolz


6spd f bodies ftmfw

[MonmouthCtyAntz]

I had a buddy that didnt drag race much and blew 3 rears out of his 99ss...luckily he was still under warranty. W/ these rears you take the chance w/ drag racing regardless of the tires...Id probably run a nitto if you want the least amount of stress on the rear.

[iroc86NJ]

Run stock 2.73s and ****** tires, problem solved.

HA! I've got a bracket motor in my car with a manual th400 and i can attest that you can't break a stock rear with 2.7* even with DR's .......believe me i've tried!

[98tadriver]

i actually broke a 2.73 rear in my near stock 3rd gen back in the day. it mightve been the original rear in it though. if thats the case, it had 200,000 miles on it