I want some opinions on this future project idea

[L695speed]

I was thinking of some projects for myself when I get the 84 TA put back together. One idea revolved around getting a third gen or later f-body then putting in a 383 stroker. However, then I recalled a 1970 something Bill Mitchell concept, custom whatever, called the Pegasus. You know the red one with the Ferrari motor in it and 4. something gears, reports had it burning rubber in all four gears. Anyway back to my point. Recalling that car I suddenly had a crazy idea, Why not......:

Take a base third gen firebird with t-tops (you will see why in a bit), upgrade it to 1989-1990 Trans Am or GTA body specs, put on 1LE components for the suspension, brakes etc, convert the t-tops to a Targa top, keeping the t-top locking and trim pieces to be used for the glass targa roof, then here is the real kicker....

Find a Ferrari 550, or 575 V-12 engine and drivetrain then stuff it in there. In a car weighing 3300 from the factory it should be a barn burner...its lighter than the Ferrari. Anyway, ideally you could find a wrecked 550 (they are cheaper) and pull the motor out.

I was going to paint it Jamaica Yellow, and put on the gold diamond spoke 16 inch rims. By my figures it could do 12s in the 1/4 and top out where the Ferrari did. I say I should do it. I might keep it a two seater while I was at it.

[thunder]

i dig it

[Savage_Messiah]

to convert it to targa you're gonna need a lot of reinforcement

[CHRIS67]

Pro-touring 3 gen, I'm down with that. 8-)

[BonzoHansen]

Cool idea, but kasey is right you will need a cage. Ask ian where the ferarri style wheels form his 2nd gen went

[WildBillyT]

to convert it to targa you're gonna need a lot of reinforcement

Absolutely. That center bar is important. But given that a V12 is longer than a small block V8, and that a third gen "kinda" can fit a big block I'm guessing there will be a decent amount of firewall and sheet metal modification/reinforcement necessary anyway.

[L695speed]

I kind of figured there would be sheet metal mods. I was thinking of converting a car to a targa at some point anyway. I know subframe connectors are another thing you can do to reinforce the car. Because I am thinking of keeping it a two seater, a cage is do able but I don't want an obvious cage. If its done right I will do a cage as it does wonders for any car's structural integrity.

As for a big block fitting in a third gen....its being done more often than one would think. There are several cars out there with Pontiac 400s in them. Also the world's Fastest street legal car (at least in europe) has a seriously modded big block V8 in it. Its a third gen Trans Am that was built by Polly Motorsports.

[WildBillyT]

I kind of figured there would be sheet metal mods. I was thinking of converting a car to a targa at some point anyway. I know subframe connectors are another thing you can do to reinforce the car. Because I am thinking of keeping it a two seater, a cage is do able but I don't want an obvious cage. If its done right I will do a cage as it does wonders for any car's structural integrity.

As for a big block fitting in a third gen....its being done more often than one would think. There are several cars out there with Pontiac 400s in them. Also the world's Fastest street legal car (at least in europe) has a seriously modded big block V8 in it. Its a third gen Trans Am that was built by Polly Motorsports.

Oh, I know that there are a lot of BB third gens out there. Not a huge deal. But it requires some shoehorning, and I'm guessing the V12 is longer- which would put it further under the cowl, thus moving the firewall further back. Which IMO is more than a little sheet metal work. I think it's an awesome idea and I'd love to see you do it... just pointing out a potential hang up.

I think doing an AWD Camaro would be cool to do as well.

Post up in the Resto-Fab section if you want to hack it out in more depth.

[sweetbmxrider]

sounds pretty crazy

[Ian]

for what you're planning, 1LE suspension/brakes aren't going to be enough. you'll need a REAL big brake setup and probably coilovers to really take advantage of what you're trying to accomplish.

I don't have the Ferrari wheels anymore, they went wih the Camaro.

[L695speed]

I don't have the Ferrari wheels anymore, they went wih the Camaro.

You still have photos of that? What wheels were they?

[Mike]

sounds like a massive waste of money

[Blacdout96]

sounds like a massive waste of money

X2. why not buy a Vette, or a used Viper (93-94) for the same amount you'd be dumping in that 3rd gen. Not only that, but putting in something like a V12 can change the handling characteristics of the car dramatically, and as one other person stated in here, you'd need more then just 1LE parts to put on that car.

Question, how old are you?

[L695speed]

X2. why not buy a Vette, or a used Viper (93-94) for the same amount you'd be dumping in that 3rd gen. Not only that, but putting in something like a V12 can change the handling characteristics of the car dramatically, and as one other person stated in here, you'd need more then just 1LE parts to put on that car.

Question, how old are you?

I'm 23 in may...it was just an idea I had thinking of the Pegasus Show Car from 1970 something, which was a Firebird with a Ferrari V-12, to do a modernized version of it. Using that car as inspiration. The 550's V-12 might not change the handling too much. Its smaller than a 350 and might be comparable in weight as well, if not lighter; if I recall its an aluminum engine. I am not ruling out a 6 speed C4 vette or an early Viper by any chance either.

Its not too crazy considering its already been done, abliet with a second gen and an earlier V-12 Ferrari engine. I was thinking maybe 10 years down the road but by then there are chances that it will never happen...so the Viper and vette are probably more likely to be done than that.

I am still thinking of creating a 383 stroker car with a targa top and a 1LE setup and maybe coil overs. Naturally if I do that I will probably use SFCs and a cage. But first I need to finish the 84 TA....

[jims69camaro]

you'd do yourself a great service to think of things like this for a long time before you actually post up. most around here don't have patience for half-baked ideas.

rethink your suspension.

the motor is longer and, therefore, will extend further down the body (think transmission tunnel) than a normal motor/trans combo does. also, your structural integrity had better be well thought out or you could end up with the windshield in your lap. that t-bar does a lot more than just give the t-tops a place to rest. i'd hate to think you'd use up all of that gained space with a roll cage, but that would probably be the cheap way out.

pulling the motor and transplanting it are one thing. what transmission would you use? what rear? what rear suspension? will you retain the ferrari's fuel injection? better think about space requirements for essentials, like a computer.

also, if i am not mistaken, the ferrari motor is wider as well as longer, which will eat into your floorpan on both sides. this is why guys who drive a ferrari for the first time have trouble with the transmission bulge impinging on their normal seated position. they almost claim to have to be a contortionist to drive a ferrari - but that's not true. adjustment is necessary, but it's not that bad.

be careful cutting in the floorpan area, too, as those structural supports do their job. take a look at a third-gen convertible floorpan and see how it differs from a t-top car or even a solid roof car. sub-frame connectors will only be the start of the modifications needed.

i am only touching on certain areas, but you can see it's more than just a little metal work. also, do you plan on doing the work yourself or paying someone to do it? if doing it yourself, i would run your plans by an auto-engineer. if you're paying someone, well, get ready to write several big checks. start out smaller, with something you can easily finish on your own in a coupla weeks. also, let me be the first to tell you that for the same price you can do it yourself, you can buy a crate 383 with a warranty. if you're one of those guys that just has to say he built it himself, well then that's another story.

keep dreaming - it might lead you down the road to that project. just be careful what you throw out into an open public forum. :mrgreen:

[91chevywt]

i'd be curious to see how all the odds and ends would work with the car. Would the stock accessory layout work? Would the stock oil pan work? You'd have to certainly build motor mounts. Seems like it would be difficult and expensive but if you've got the time and money it would be cool in the end.

[L695speed]

Jims69,
I just thought I did throw it up there for opinions. I knew it would require alot of work to make it work. Since the 550 is front engined its not as bad as some people might think. From what I am seeing and what I know the place to start would be to buy the base firebird, and the drive train and measure everything, mock everything, blah blah blah. this was not going to be a summer project, this was over the course of several years.

I would say it would be an awesome project and car in the end but it would be alot of blood, sweat, and tears, not to mention the cursing and the money to pull it off. I'll think about it, maybe acquiring a vette and a viper in the process.:lol: If I do end up with a 550 as a whole car then maybe I will go back and forth between the TA and the Ferrari with a tape measure to see if I can do it.

[Mike]

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z9/crazycraker42069/crack_pipe.jpg

[NastyEllEssWon]

i love the pot leaf on the lighter next to a crack pipe. what a horrible misrepresentation.





http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/2001_Ferrari_550_engine.jpg



that motor is pretty big. good luck

[91chevywt]

I would imagine getting the computer(s) to work in a firebird would be difficult. Probably need a custom harness and some good factory information/manuals to back up the process...

I just saw a complete car for sale for $70k....seems like an expensive project

[79CamaroDiva]

i like the thinking of doing something "different" than whats seen at every show.. but i hope you have someone with some form of engineering background to help out, becuase thats messing wtih a lot of different safety specs in the process..

[L695speed]

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z9/crazycraker42069/crack_pipe.jpg

I find that hysterical....no I am not high.:rofl: If you want to see my inspiration look at Motor Trend Classic's drive of the car that I want to interpret.

http://www.motortrend.com/classic/features/c12_0603_1971_pontiac_firebird_pegasus/bill_mitchell.html

91Chevy, if I ever do get around to this and get past the mock up stage, I will probably search for a car that has been wrecked or something rather than cut up a whole car.

[Frosty]

This project will rank up there with the "I want to put a 454 with twin turbos in my 3rdgen" project.

If you somehow pull it off and do it that would be one awesome car....but...well, I'll just say good luck :)

[Crayface]

This project will rank up there with the "I want to put a 454 with twin turbos in my 3rdgen" project.

If you somehow pull it off and do it that would be one awesome car....but...well, I'll just say good luck :)

What He said ^^^, Save the money and buy a vet

[Ian]

You still have photos of that? What wheels were they?

I'm 99% sure they were compomotive rims.

http://www.comp.co.uk/productpics/wheels/TS17_l.jpg

actual ones I had on the car. 17x11 rear 17x9.5 front...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/Ian_F/79%20Z28/DSC00965.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/Ian_F/79%20Z28/DSC00964.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y210/Ian_F/79%20Z28/DSC00966.jpg